Why blame Brandon Allen?

[hogfan10]

In Oklahoma Knight is getting slammed and called a mediocre QB that is getting OU beat. That is what is being said with only two losses.

In Arkansas our QB can lose 15 straight conference games and "aint no body better talk bad bout him." That is a losers' mentality.

Your either part of the solution or part of the problem. CBB please bring in a handful of Qbs this off season because if this is the best then we have a major problem. 

So because OK's fans are irrational we should be too.
It's always a great idea to replace the starter with the backup; until it's done, and we find out why the starter was a starter and the backup a backup.
This isn't playstation, some positions actually need some continuity to them.

[Dionysos25]

Because he was responsible for 3 of our 4 turnovers, which GA turned into points.. and had a QB rating of 32.8? Love the kid, has real talent. But he's been inconsistent throwing the football.

[jm]

It just doesn't seem that BA and Chaney mesh real well. I am not sure that he is capable to do some of the things he is asked to do, or the offensive coordinator isn't capable finding plays that fit our QB's strengths at key times. Allen does some things well, but we seem to get away from his strengths too often.

[BorderPatrol]

What about throw for 250 yards and 300 yards in back go back weeks against two of the best defenses in the country?

Very fitting, in typical Hogville fashion, that this post was never answered.

bp

[Razorpigg]

Very fitting, in typical Hogville fashion, that this post was never answered.

bp

It doesn't fit most of their agendas is why...

[Swinesong1]

Very fitting, in typical Hogville fashion, that this post was never answered.

bp

Obvious answers would be the opposing defense is stacked to stop the run thereby leaving receivers in single coverage and/or Hogs get behind early and are forced to throw the ball.

[BigPapaHawg]

BA played his butt off!

[Kevin]

BA played his butt off!

Sure did, when Georgia called the dogs off

[urkillnmesmalls]

Very fitting, in typical Hogville fashion, that this post was never answered.

bp

"What about throw for 250 yards and 300 yards in back go back weeks against two of the best defenses in the country?"

Maybe no one could really tell what he meant?   

[Swinesong1]

Really? Every fan of college sports is blaming BA?  After all that is the topic of this thread.

"need to measure their limp manhood by how a TEAM of young college MEN  perform in a collegiate sport".  How is that about blaming Allen?

[GuvHog]

He cannot read defenses. He looks only at who the primary receiver is, no matter what the defense is doing

That's what HUNH QBs are taught to do. He was taught that in High School from the 8th grade on.

[DLUXHOG]

Sounds like you're indicting every fan of college sports.

If the shoe fits.....

[hogsanity]

If the shoe fits.....

I just knew your post would get deleted, but all the bashing of BA would remain.

[Pig In The City]

Cuz he drives the bus

[Pig In The City]

I think he is actually doing fairly well and I've never been very high on the young man.  He makes some plays and he misses some plays. But the entire team is doing that. There has been very little consistency of effort. I think the entire team lacks focus.

Bottom line games will always come down to three things: special teams, turnovers and the trenches. 

[Hog10S]

"What about throw for 250 yards and 300 yards in back go back weeks against two of the best defenses in the country?"

Maybe no one could really tell what he meant?   

What it means, since it took nearly 50 passes per game to get the yardage, is that our running game gets hurt because there are 22 players within 10 yards of the line.  BA's average pass completion is only 5 to 7 yards per catch, before the receiver adds yards after catch.  BA doesn't seem to attempt many, and even more rarely complete, passes 20+ yards down field.  Thus, you can stack the box as your receivers hover and run around in the 5-10 yard zone hoping to catch the ball that nearly every defender knows where it is going because BA has turned to that specific receiver and has followed him from the start.

[Kevin]

That's what HUNH QBs are taught to do. He was taught that in High School from the 8th grade on.

thanks, that is what i thought

[urkillnmesmalls]

What it means, since it took nearly 50 passes per game to get the yardage, is that our running game gets hurt because there are 22 players within 10 yards of the line.  BA's average pass completion is only 5 to 7 yards per catch, before the receiver adds yards after catch.  BA doesn't seem to attempt many, and even more rarely complete, passes 20+ yards down field.  Thus, you can stack the box as your receivers hover and run around in the 5-10 yard zone hoping to catch the ball that nearly every defender knows where it is going because BA has turned to that specific receiver and has followed him from the start.

That swooshing sound is the intent of the post going over your head.  Read the post and the errors in it.  It's hard to even follow it as a cogent line of thinking.  Hey...a typo or two, I get it.  But that's got "wordo's" in it.   

"What about throw for 250 yards and 300 yards in back go back weeks against two of the best defenses in the country?"

But...thanks for the explanation.  I agree 100% with the sentiment, and apparently my attempt to be funny didn't work.  I will say this though...in  that particular game, UGA specifically took away time from BA.  It was primary, and maaaayybe secondary, and he was going to be on the turf.  Forget the full progression...wasn't going to happen.  What we apparently don't have is the ability to identify the weakness of the defense, and exploit it.  You can't stack 8 in there with a blitzer making 9, and NOT have somewhere on the field to make them pay.  We just can't do it consistently enough for UGA NOT to be willing to take that gamble.  Bottom line.  What stinks is...I bet we see more of it moving forward.   

[HF#1]

He cannot read defenses. He looks only at who the primary receiver is, no matter what the defense is doing

Have you ever read an SEC defense?  Just curious...   

[Kevin]

Have you ever read an SEC defense?  Just curious...   

have you?

[showme]

That swooshing sound is the intent of the post going over your head.  Read the post and the errors in it.  It's hard to even follow it as a cogent line of thinking.  Hey...a typo or two, I get it.  But that's got "wordo's" in it.   

"What about throw for 250 yards and 300 yards in back go back weeks against two of the best defenses in the country?"

But...thanks for the explanation.  I agree 100% with the sentiment, and apparently my attempt to be funny didn't work.  I will say this though...in  that particular game, UGA specifically took away time from BA.  It was primary, and maaaayybe secondary, and he was going to be on the turf.  Forget the full progression...wasn't going to happen.  What we apparently don't have is the ability to identify the weakness of the defense, and exploit it.  You can't stack 8 in there with a blitzer making 9, and NOT have somewhere on the field to make them pay.  We just can't do it consistently enough for UGA NOT to be willing to take that gamble.  Bottom line.  What stinks is...I bet we see more of it moving forward.   

I am certain that there are check down receivers to throw to when the blitz is identified. Our problem is, our QB can't identify that the blitz is coming until he is on his backside getting helped up. He never has been able to do it and it hasn't changed any since then. He completely misses so many blitzes.

[showme]

Have you ever read an SEC defense?  Just curious...

I have never been a chef but I can sure tell you if the food sucks.

[HF#1]

have you?

I axed you first bruh..  I'm not the one proclaiming Allen can't read defenses...  And keep in mind that "reading" a defense is normally a pre-snap thing.  Not a during the play thing. 

Now, if you want to say that Allen lacks vision down field then I might agree.

[HF#1]

I have never been a chef but I can sure tell you if the food sucks.

You keep that logic

[urkillnmesmalls]

I am certain that there are check down receivers to throw to when the blitz is identified. Our problem is, our QB can't identify that the blitz is coming until he is on his backside getting helped up. He never has been able to do it and it hasn't changed any since then. He completely misses so many blitzes.

Yeah, I discussed that on about three other threads as well.  There was one play when the blitzer was blatantly cheating up, and there were two options: 

1.  Leave the back in to pick him up. 

2.  Send the back out directly to the flat in the defensive soft spot, and get it out there quickly and make them pay. 

Instead...back goes out, blitzer comes through...and BA takes off running right as always, and ends up getting sacked.  I wasn't at the game, so I can't say that the back was wide open out there or not since he was out of the picture, but you CANNOT do that.  It's fundamentally wrong football, and that's what frustrates me almost as much as the ridiculously senseless penalties that we apparently can't stop. 

I know BB can't bench everyone that does something stupid, but at what point does he have to take a stand for that crap?  It's just silliness. 

[Kevin]

I axed you first bruh..  I'm not the one proclaiming Allen can't read defenses...  And keep in mind that "reading" a defense is normally a pre-snap thing.  Not a during the play thing. 

Now, if you want to say that Allen lacks vision down field then I might agree.

how many blitzers ran free to him or  tackling our rb before the line of scrimmage

that is a pre snap read

[Hogfaniam]

how many blitzers ran free to him or  tackling our rb before the line of scrimmage

that is a pre snap read

He went down 11 times

[Kevin]

He went down 11 times

they are not all his fault, but some were do to not recognizing the defense.

[urkillnmesmalls]

how many blitzers ran free to him or  tackling our rb before the line of scrimmage

that is a pre snap read

Kevin..you're way more pessimistic than me, and I always try to have some balance.  But on this point...I agree.  The play may call for a PRIMARY receiver, but the PRIMARY receiver for really good QB's is the one who is the most likely to get open based on the coverage.  That's what makes Peyton Manning so good. 

In order to do that, you have to be precise and be on the same page.  In BA's defense, I don't think we have that.  It's not like he's worked for years with these receivers, and it's not like they're running crisp routes and getting open every play either.  So...there's some give and take in order to make that work like it's supposed to.  Otherwise...the WR goes out on what is supposed to be a button hook turning to the outside, but he turns inside instead, and the ball goes right to the DB for a pick 6 instead.  It's THAT situation that has BA gun shy, and it's not helping that the line wasn't having their best game either. 

It's not all on BA...not even close.  But, he has some things that need work just like the rest of the team.  His are just more glaring, because he touches the ball on every play. 

[urkillnmesmalls]

He went down 11 times

...and that's the issue.  If the opposition wants to blitz 2 guys on every play, then you BETTER have an answer for it, or you're going to go down 20 times. 

For whatever reason, we're not finding the defense's weakness.  I concede that part of that is they are able to play man coverage on our WR's, and we don't get enough separation most of the time.  No doubt about that...we need some additional WR's.  BUT....at some point, you have to say, "Hey guess what...I need some quick emergency routes that are quick hitters that can get us some positive plays and stop this blitzing on every play." 

It never happened.  That's all I'm saying...no blame.  That's just fact. 

[showme]

Yeah, I discussed that on about three other threads as well.  There was one play when the blitzer was blatantly cheating up, and there were two options: 

1.  Leave the back in to pick him up. 

2.  Send the back out directly to the flat in the defensive soft spot, and get it out there quickly and make them pay. 

Instead...back goes out, blitzer comes through...and BA takes off running right as always, and ends up getting sacked.  I wasn't at the game, so I can't say that the back was wide open out there or not since he was out of the picture, but you CANNOT do that.  It's fundamentally wrong football, and that's what frustrates me almost as much as the ridiculously senseless penalties that we apparently can't stop. 

I know BB can't bench everyone that does something stupid, but at what point does he have to take a stand for that crap?  It's just silliness.

I get the feeling that he is growing more and more tired of the mistakes and will start taking more of a stand in the coming weeks. It is overdue IMO but better late than never I suppose.

[Kevin]

Kevin..you're way more pessimistic than me, and I always try to have some balance.  But on this point...I agree.  The play may call for a PRIMARY receiver, but the PRIMARY receiver for really good QB's is the one who is the most likely to get open based on the coverage.  That's what makes Peyton Manning so good. 

In order to do that, you have to be precise and be on the same page.  In BA's defense, I don't think we have that.  It's not like he's worked for years with these receivers, and it's not like they're running crisp routes and getting open every play either.  So...there's some give and take in order to make that work like it's supposed to.  Otherwise...the WR goes out on what is supposed to be a button hook turning to the outside, but he turns inside instead, and the ball goes right to the DB for a pick 6 instead.  It's THAT situation that has BA gun shy, and it's not helping that the line wasn't having their best game either. 

It's not all on BA...not even close.  But, he has some things that need work just like the rest of the team.  His are just more glaring, because he touches the ball on every play. 

i am not balanced when it comes to ba. i freely admit that.

he has worked with some of these guys for 2 years.

plus, chaney is not off the hook. i think the passing scheme, & play calling is suspect.

[showme]

He went down 11 times

This is the SEC. The field is full of defensive studs. You have to expect to go down some and you have to have plan B's in order to combat it. He doesn't work well with plan b's.

[HF#1]

i am not balanced when it comes to ba. i freely admit that.

he has worked with some of these guys for 2 years.

plus, chaney is not off the hook. i think the passing scheme, & play calling is suspect.

If we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot with turnovers and untimely penalties, we'd be winning some of these games and you'd have nothing to bitch about.  Chaney and BA included.

[showme]

If we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot with turnovers and untimely penalties, we'd be winning some of these games and you'd have nothing to bitch about.  Chaney and BA included.

and on the other hand, if we had a QB that could identify blitzes better and make teams pay for it, we would have won some of these games and wouldn't be griping about it.

No one is saying that other things being done better would result in wins, we are just discussing the things that BA could do better because, well, that is the subject of this thread and we are staying on subject.

[urkillnmesmalls]

i am not balanced when it comes to ba. i freely admit that.

he has worked with some of these guys for 2 years.

plus, chaney is not off the hook. i think the passing scheme, & play calling is suspect.

No argument from me, other than BA isn't nearly as bad as you portray him to be.  We could still win with him at QB if we execute better, and don't have stupid penalties, missed assignments, and stupid turnovers. 

We won't out talent SEC teams.  We have to out execute and out discipline them.  If we fail...that will be the reason.  BB had to have known that coming in, and if he doesn't at least find a way to recruit and get a difference maker at QB and a few at WR, it won't matter who is calling plays.

And btw...not matter how ugly it looks, BB was on the 3 year plan to see marked improvement from me, but I always knew he would get five unless we go backward prior to that.  If we don't win at least 7 games next year...big concern going into years 4 and 5.   

[Kevin]

If we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot with turnovers and untimely penalties, we'd be winning some of these games and you'd have nothing to bitch about.  Chaney and BA included.

that would make me happy toward our program. i would rather speak positively about anything than negatively.

the truth is truth, we have had those turnovers, & penalties, & been non productive in the 4th quarter of winnable games.

[HF#1]

and on the other hand, if we had a QB that could identify blitzes better and make teams pay for it, we would have won some of these games and wouldn't be griping about it.

No one is saying that other things being done better would result in wins, we are just discussing the things that BA could do better because, well, that is the subject of this thread and we are staying on subject.

He's checked out of bad plays many times.  And for that matter, the plays he checks into are successful most of the time. 

Brandon Allen's biggest problem is

1. Vision - He needs to see the field better. 
2. He could be a little more accurate.
3. I think he could run more than he does and I think we should design plays for that if we don't have them already.

You can identify the blitzes all you want but if we can't block them like we couldn't against Georgia, it doesn't matter.

[HF#1]

that would make me happy toward our program. i would rather speak positively about anything than negatively.

the truth is truth, we have had those turnovers, & penalties, & been non productive in the 4th quarter of winnable games.

Not all Allen and Chaney's fault.  It's a maturity issue.  We have yet to mature as a team.

[Jamie Jones]

Brandon Allen is one of the best young men in college football. He is all class, all the time. He's the kind of young man that I hope all my boys grow to be and the kind that I hope my daughter is blessed to marry. But as a top college quarterback, he is lacking intangibles. He locks on to receivers and doesn't see the field well. He misses open receivers several times a game. The big plays in the passing game tend to be designed to go to certain receivers from the inception of the play. I hope that this season is his true learning season and that it clicks for him in the spring. He seems to lose confidence in his line when he's pressured early on too. If he is watching his blocking instead of the DBs on his drop back, that is contributing to his problems. The bowl game season is additional time for him to work on such things...if we can find a way to win 3 more.

[showme]

He's checked out of bad plays many times.  And for that matter, the plays he checks into are successful most of the time. 

Brandon Allen's biggest problem is

1. Vision - He needs to see the field better. 
2. He could be a little more accurate.
3. I think he could run more than he does and I think we should design plays for that if we don't have them already.

You can identify the blitzes all you want but if we can't block them like we couldn't against Georgia, it doesn't matter.

Fact is, if you identify the blitzes and counter act them, it doesn't matter if you can't block them. Heck it can actually help you if you don't by putting their blitzers further away from the ball and unable to make a tackle on the receiver. That is the point we are trying, and obviously failing to get across. It is one big chess match and if they are going to blitz the hell out of you, you need to understand where the open man is going to be (because there WILL be an open receiver) and get him the ball. That will slow down the blitzes. In order to do that though, you have to identify the blitz coming and be ready for it. He fails miserably at that aspect of the game.


And yes if we are ranking his weaknesses in order, I would agree that his lack of vision is at the top of the list. Lack of knowing down and distance are up there as well. No need to throw a 4 yard pass if you need 12 and no need to take a 4 yard loss by stepping out of bounds on a scramble if you can JUST THROW THE BALL AWAY and get it back at the line of scrimmage.

[DeltaBoy]

He falls apart in the 4th Quarter.  Had a golden opportunity to BEAT BAMA and he underthrew the WIDE OPEN Back on a Wheel route and instead gets picked off and we LOSE AGAIN!

When it comes to BA I que up the WHO   Who sang " we won't be fooled again"! He might not be good enough for the Sunbelt.

[GaryHog]

Alabama game threw int on possible game winning drive then gives Georgia 21 points.Look at last years losses he had a hand in all of them. He usually screws up in crucial situations. Have to be blind not to see where the problem is.

[GaryHog]

and what makes it worse if you read the paper or on his interviews he never says I had turnovers its always we or the team needs to cut down on the turnovers. take responsibility for your actions good Lord!!

[PORKULATOR]

I have never been a chef but I can sure tell you if the food sucks.

HAAAAA!!!

[Wahls]

no one is blaming Brandon Allen.....just like Ann "Ma" Richards said in the 1988 Democratic National Convention as the feature speaker, Ma said of the Republican nominee, "waaaaale George, he kan't heppit, he wuz born with a silver foot in his mouth"....point ?  Brandon Allen was born with a certain amount of "God given" ability and IMHO, that ability level is Henderson St, SAU, Ouachita, Harding, etc

Let's leave Henderson out of this, because anyone who has seen Harlon Hill finalist (and Allstate Good Works captain) Kevin Rodgers play would see that he's the best in state quarterback at the moment, and he's one hell of a lot better than Brandon Allen.

He could give a clinic to the latter on throwing someone open. Go watch a Henderson game if you can this year.

[Mike Irwin]

Let's leave Henderson out of this, because anyone who has seen Harlon Hill finalist (and Allstate Good Works captain) Kevin Rodgers play would see that he's the best in state quarterback at the moment, and he's one hell of a lot better than Brandon Allen.

He could give a clinic to the latter on throwing someone open. Go watch a Henderson game if you can this year.

Henderson State 27, Nicholls St. 10.
Arkansas 73, Nicholls St. 7
 
                        Comp Att TD  Yds  Int  Long
Kevin Rodgers   23     35   1     169  1     20   
Brandon Allen    4         5   4     117  0   50

[PorkSoda]

Henderson State 27, Nicholls St. 10.
Arkansas 73, Nicholls St. 7
 
                        Comp Att TD  Yds  Int  Long
Kevin Rodgers   23     35   1     169  1     20   
Brandon Allen    4         5   4     117  0   50

I would be stoked if BA was limited to 5 attempts a game from here on out

[Wahls]

Henderson State 27, Nicholls St. 10.
Arkansas 73, Nicholls St. 7
 
                        Comp Att TD  Yds  Int  Long
Kevin Rodgers   23     35   1     169  1     20   
Brandon Allen    4         5   4     117  0   50

Let's ignore the fact that Nichols State is FCS and Henderson is only D2 and Henderson still won.

If we're gonna assume all things are equal, let's throw it the other way:

Rodgers has done something Allen will never do - be an All-American and throw more TD's than any quarterback ever within the state borders.

Oh, and hit open receivers, win conference games, etc.

[Mike Irwin]

Rodgers has done something Allen will never do - be an All-American and throw more TD's than any quarterback ever within the state borders.

Can't argue with you on that one because Brandon Allen will never be a D-2 QB facing Southeastern Oklahoma State, Southwestern Oklahoma State and  Northwestern Oklahoma State.

Allen has faced Auburn, Alabama and Georgia. Rodgers will never complete a single pass against those teams. However he did throw an 8 yard TD pass against West Georgia a couple of years ago.