Would a win change anyone's stance on the GSD?

[hogrocker]

I'm from NWA.  The Little Rock games have been great for years.  There was a time when the population, both of the school and of NWA, didn't support having every game on campus.  Times have changed.  If the campus were in Lake Village, with the same amenities that the campus and stadium in Fayetteville have now, I would still not support having any games in Little Rock.  It just doesn't make sense to have those games in Little Rock anymore.  Those supporting games in WMS at this point are only doing so for the sake of convenience and local benefit.  They fail to see the bigger picture.

[Torqued pork]

WMS became outdated and obsolete the year RRS went to 72,000 seats. Time and progress trumps sentimentalism and fear of highly unlikely scenarios. Razorback football should not be obligated to keep WMS afloat any longer.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Thank you for your service. Thank your lucky stars you aren't an attorney. You'd be eating bologna.

No need to thank me.. Its been my pleasure. But regardless, I don't think if I were an attorney and went to law school I would be eating bologna. Not had the benefit of graduate school as of yet.

[Inhogswetrust]

It didn't need fixing. University funding comes from the state government and the money the university generates with tuition/expenses. Fayetteville benefits from the University more than the University benefits from Fayetteville.

Regardless, its not Fayetteville City University. Its a STATE university, same as ASU, UCA, UAPB, UALR and countless other Universities in the state. Arkansas is the home of the University of Arkansas. How much extra tax does Fayetteville contribute to the school that the rest of the state doesn't?

ADD: WMS helped Arkansas stay a "one-school" state for football. Without it and the financial benefactors in LR, ASU would have probably developed into a better football school.

I agree that in the past WMS did help Arkansas become a "one-TEAM" state. However that doesn't necessarily mean it won't stay mostly a one team state by not playing in LR if that is what they decide to do in the future.

[Smokehouse]

I agree that in the past WMS did help Arkansas become a "one-TEAM" state. However that doesn't necessarily mean it won't stay mostly a one team state by not playing in LR if that is what they decide to do in the future.

The Hogs would be just as dominant in the state if we pulled out of WMS. Hog culture is ingrained in families, and boosters who donate big cash want to feel like they're a player in something important. Not nearly as much satisfaction being just the big fish in ASU's small pond.

[DLUXHOG]

It didn't need fixing. University funding comes from the state government and the money the university generates with tuition/expenses. Fayetteville benefits from the University more than the University benefits from Fayetteville.

Regardless, its not Fayetteville City University. Its a STATE university, same as ASU, UCA, UAPB, UALR and countless other Universities in the state. Arkansas is the home of the University of Arkansas. How much extra tax does Fayetteville/NWA contribute to the school that the rest of the state doesn't?

ADD: WMS helped Arkansas stay a "one-school" state for football. Without it and the financial benefactors in LR, ASU would have probably developed into a better football school.

Actually, just guessing, but probably quite a bit since NWA is the home to the world's largest company, the worlds largest meat exporter, the states largest commercial real estate company, and the largest trucking company in the USA.....

[DLUXHOG]

Time for the GSD to cease and desist....  not the first stadium to be "retired"..   Yankee's stadium?   Tigers stadium? etc., etc..

[Inhogswetrust]

I read a good article on what has happened at Jackson Mississippi and Mississippi Memorial Stadium. Google Mississippi Memorial Stadium history if you want to read it. It's from a pay sight but I was able to read it. It's from 2012. Very interesting by comparison to what we are all debating.

[DLUXHOG]

I still think the city leaders should renovate/transform the thing into a park/event center/recreation center for public use...........   they could still call it War Memorial "something" (fields, park, etc...)

[RazorbackRon]

If we win, I think they should play all games at WMS  and move the University down to Little Rock.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Actually, just guessing, but probably quite a bit since NWA is the home to the world's largest company, the worlds largest meat exporter, and the largest trucking company in the USA.....

I don't believe that local taxes support the University. Yes quite a few big donors come from the NW. But unless your name is along the lines of Walton, Tyson, Lindsey or Stephens then then you are contributing the same as any other person in the state that donates to the RF (or in the same league anyway, meaning not multimillion dollar donors). (Oh and my boss is the worlds largest employer.. The US Government)

The Hogs would be just as dominant in the state if we pulled out of WMS. Hog culture is ingrained in families, and boosters who donate big cash want to feel like they're a player in something important. Not nearly as much satisfaction being just the big fish in ASU's small pond.

ASU could have grown their program at a more rapid rate in the 60s-70s if the Hogs weren't as accessible during their long tenure in WMS. The stadium has served its purpose, to get the Hogs to a bigger population base. I don't doubt that it will probably be retired, but many think it never did anything for the Razorback program but remove profits. And that, just aint the case.

[Atlhogfan1]

This is sad to be so close to the end of this tradition and to think UGa may be the last "big" brand opponent in WMS.  Many of us supporting leaving WMS are doing so with the understanding of why we will no longer play there.  It isn't based on emotion.

Tennessee will be playing ONE game in an NFL stadium with 7 home games in Knoxville.

[Inhogswetrust]

The Hogs would be just as dominant in the state if we pulled out of WMS. Hog culture is ingrained in families, and boosters who donate big cash want to feel like they're a player in something important. Not nearly as much satisfaction being just the big fish in ASU's small pond.

And that's the thing. I don't believe that all of a sudden due to us being the ONLY school in the state in a major conference with a huge budget that the support would disappear or drop dramatically. I have relatives in Sotuh and east Arkansas that has NEVER been to a game in WMS or RRS and they will never waver in their loyalty. 

[Atlhogfan1]

I don't believe that local taxes support the University. Yes quite a few big donors come from the NW. But unless your name is along the lines of Walton, Tyson, Lindsey or Stephens then then you are contributing the same as any other person in the state that donates to the RF (or in the same league anyway, meaning not multimillion dollar donors). (Oh and my boss is the worlds largest employer.. The US Government)

ASU could have grown their program at a more rapid rate in the 60s-70s if the Hogs weren't as accessible during their long tenure in WMS. The stadium has served its purpose, to get the Hogs to a bigger population base. I don't doubt that it will probably be retired, but many think it never did anything for the Razorback program but remove profits. And that, just aint the case.

Why are you going down this hole about taxes?  I've never understood this viewpoint like a kid is having a toy taken from them. 

ASU blames most of its shortcomings on Broyles and/or the UA. 

[Großer Kriegschwein]

And that's the thing. I don't believe that all of a sudden due to us being the ONLY school in a major conference with a huge budget that the support would disappear or drop dramatically. I have relatives in Sotuh and east Arkansas that has NEVER been to a game in WMS or RRS and they will never waver in their loyalty.

Not now...Back then. I'm sure it could never be flipped now. But back when Broyles was building the team in to a national contender. Playing in Little Rock was a must for in-state recruiting. 

[LZH]

I still think the city leaders should renovate/transform the thing into a park/event center/recreation center for public use...........   they could still call it War Memorial "something" (fields, park, etc...)

Yeah hasn't there been talk about commercial development or something?  That would be a shame.

Actually, long term, tearing down WMS might bring the Hogs back to the LR area....ironically enough.  Maybe after a couple of years, Pulaski County will do what they did with Verizon (Alltel) Arena, but this time around build a new football stadium.  A stadium with plenty of seats and luxury suites - one that wouldn't lose the program any money to play there.  I'll always feel that completely pulling out of LR is a mistake in the long run.

[DLUXHOG]

Yeah hasn't there been talk about commercial development or something?  That would be a shame.

Actually, long term, tearing down WMS might bring the Hogs back to the LR area....ironically enough.  Maybe after a couple of years, Pulaski County will do what they did with Verizon (Alltel) Arena, but this time around build a new football stadium.  A stadium with plenty of seats and luxury suites - one that wouldn't lose the program any money to play there.  I'll always feel that completely pulling out of LR is a mistake in the long run.

And if the Razorbacks were not being charged "anything"..........

[LZH]

And if the Razorbacks were not being charged "anything"..........

Right.  There's a reason that a lot of folks call Arkansas 'backwards'.  WMS is owned by the state iirc, but every time the Hogs play there LR sees a $11M-$15M boost in the local economy (don't ask me to remember where I saw that or even how accurate it is).  You'd think that the honchos in LR would do everything possible to make it easy for the Hogs to play there....and that begins with omitting any kind of 'rent'.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Why are you going down this hole about taxes?  I've never understood this viewpoint like a kid is having a toy taken from them. 

ASU blames most of its shortcomings on Broyles and/or the UA.

I didn't go down a hole. Its the truth. The state and federal government cover the endowments for the university. Not Washington and surrounding counties.

I don't mind the Indians... Never have (and yes they will always be the Indians to me, I don't care what they put on the sign, my mother is alumni), but I am 100% Razorback fan. Born and bred. Have lived in Arkansas my entire life except for the time I've been in the military. I pay Arkansas state taxes and donate to the Razorback Foundation annually.

I CAN afford to drive to NW Arkansas, doesn't put me out that much except for the drive and renting a place to park the camper. I'm not acting like a child. But NW Arkansas "ownership" of the Razorbacks is invented by people that felt slighted when we played a good deal of games every year in LR. When Frank started moving the team toward a more RRS centric schedule, both sides got nasty. And honestly I don't give two franks whether they play in LR or RRS. I don't like people acting like they are more a fan than me and mine because they live in NW Arkansas.

[Atlhogfan1]

Not now...Back then. I'm sure it could never be flipped now. But back when Broyles was building the team in to a national contender. Playing in Little Rock was a must for in-state recruiting.

We began playing in WMS before the interstate system was built.  Yes, it was a great idea and critical to the growth of our brand and program to grow support by playing in Little Rock. 

Yeah hasn't there been talk about commercial development or something?  That would be a shame.

Actually, long term, tearing down WMS might bring the Hogs back to the LR area....ironically enough.  Maybe after a couple of years, Pulaski County will do what they did with Verizon (Alltel) Arena, but this time around build a new football stadium.  A stadium with plenty of seats and luxury suites - one that wouldn't lose the program any money to play there.  I'll always feel that completely pulling out of LR is a mistake in the long run.

Too small of a city in too poor and low populated of a state to build a large stadium to only be used to its max potential once or twice a season.  It is why WMS wasn't renovated except with small projects. 

[Atlhogfan1]

I didn't go down a hole. Its the truth. The state and federal government cover the endowments for the university. Not Washington and surrounding counties.

I don't mind the Indians... Never have (and yes they will always be the Indians to me, I don't care what they put on the sign, my mother is alumni), but I am 100% Razorback fan. Born and bred. Have lived in Arkansas my entire life except for the time I've been in the military. I pay Arkansas state taxes and donate to the Razorback Foundation annually.

I CAN afford to drive to NW Arkansas, doesn't put me out that much except for the drive and renting a place to park the camper. I'm not acting like a child. But NW Arkansas "ownership" of the Razorbacks is invented by people that felt slighted when we played a good deal of games every year in LR. When Frank started moving the team toward a more RRS centric schedule, both sides got nasty. And honestly I don't give two franks whether they play in LR or RRS. I don't like people acting like they are more a fan than me and mine because they live in NW Arkansas.

It has little to do with this discussion especially since our athletic department uses very little tax money. 

I don't see the ownership.  I see accusations of it which will cause people from NWA and others to defend the region and the university. 

[Großer Kriegschwein]

We began playing in WMS before the interstate system was built.  Yes, it was a great idea and critical to the growth of our brand and program to grow support by playing in Little Rock. 
Too small of a city in too poor and low populated of a state to build a large stadium to only be used to its max potential once or twice a season.  It is why WMS wasn't renovated except with small projects. 

Yeah we are on the same page then IRT how LR grew the brand.

If Warren Stephens is serious about the Hogs playing in LR, then I'm sure he will work on funding for an upgrade.

Right.  There's a reason that a lot of folks call Arkansas 'backwards'.  WMS is owned by the state iirc, but every time the Hogs play there LR sees a $11M-$15M boost in the local economy (don't ask me to remember where I saw that or even how accurate it is).  You'd think that the honchos in LR would do everything possible to make it easy for the Hogs to play there....and that begins with omitting any kind of 'rent'.

Yeah. Its owned by the state. I expect to see an upgrade. Maybe not to 75,000. But I think in the next few years they will increase to 65k or so. A throw back game to the SWC days every other year would be good if they waive the rental fees.

[Granny fan]

No.... And NO!  All home games should be at RRS!

[Großer Kriegschwein]

It has little to do with this discussion especially since our athletic department uses very little tax money. 

I don't see the ownership.  I see accusations of it which will cause people from NWA and others to defend the region and the university.

I've never been nasty to anyone IRT the GSD. I don't take a side typically, until people underestimate the value of what WMS did for the program during the 50s-60s-70s-80s, during which they get insulting about it.

I'm like anyone else, I don't like being insulted. Regardless, we aren't that far apart in our thinking anyway. 

[LZH]

Too small of a city in too poor and low populated of a state to build a large stadium to only be used to its max potential once or twice a season.  It is why WMS wasn't renovated except with small projects. 

I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.  But last time this came up (years ago), it was the legislators & real estate hotshots bickering back and forth about who's gonna pay for it and where to build it - that's what killed the whole idea.

[Atlhogfan1]

Yeah we are on the same page then IRT how LR grew the brand.

If Warren Stephens is serious about the Hogs playing in LR, then I'm sure he will work on funding for an upgrade.

Yeah. Its owned by the state. I expect to see an upgrade. Maybe not to 75,000. But I think in the next few years they will increase to 65k or so. A throw back game to the SWC days every other year would be good if they waive the rental fees.

Is Stephens' feelings still hurt from the proposal being shot down when Broyles proposed moving out of Little Rock?  The only way renovation should be considered is if someone or a group with money they want to donate for whatever reason - to save a memorial, to help Little Rock, ego - can mix with a bond proposal.  Capacity wouldn't have to greatly increase.  Real renovations and not bandaids along with premium seating would need to be added.  Get the place over 60K and a better experience to compete with every game on tv.  I doubt it will happen at this point.  And it shouldn't with taxpayer money in a state with so many issues and a stadium used so little. 

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Is Stephens' feelings still hurt from the proposal being shot down when Broyles proposed moving out of Little Rock?  The only way renovation should be considered is if someone or a group with money they want to donate for whatever reason - to save a memorial, to help Little Rock, ego - can mix with a bond proposal.  Capacity wouldn't have to greatly increase.  Real renovations and not bandaids along with premium seating would need to be added.  Get the place over 60K and a better experience to compete with every game on tv.  I doubt it will happen at this point.  And it shouldn't with taxpayer money in a state with so many issues and a stadium used so little.

I wouldn't know whether his feelings are hurt or not. If I was worth 2.8 Billion I'd probably renovate it myself and start getting called a philathopist. I'm all about a REAL renovation, not taxpayer funded. Its a monument that deserves to be preserved.

[Inhogswetrust]

Not now...Back then. I'm sure it could never be flipped now. But back when Broyles was building the team in to a national contender. Playing in Little Rock was a must for in-state recruiting. 

Agree but that was then and this is now. Times change.

[Hogfaniam]

Jesus.  Someone reset the boundaries

[DLUXHOG]

I wouldn't know whether his feelings are hurt or not. If I was worth 2.8 Billion I'd probably renovate it myself and start getting called a philathopist. I'm all about a REAL renovation, not taxpayer funded. Its a monument that deserves to be preserved.

Okay.... this sounds like a Little Rock leadership issue rather than a Razorback issue..........

[opineonswine]

I personally grew up in LR and still live in central Arkansas today. I was in the LR school district from K-12. But I am as pro all home games on campus as they come. That being said, the football program is as in need of a win as they ever have been.

If that streak comes to an end Saturday in WMS against a quality opponent (Gurley or not) will anyone's stance be swayed? I won't change completely but it sure will make me think a bit about it.

Heavens no.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Okay.... this sounds like a Little Rock leadership issue rather than a Razorback issue..........

Never said it was a Razorback issue. Stadium is owned by the state. They want games there then they must upgrade. They know it. But politics will always be politics.

[DLUXHOG]

Never said it was a Razorback issue. Stadium is owned by the state. They want games there then they must upgrade. They know it. But politics will always be politics.

Well... guess you could say they had their chance and now they are SOL....

[Hogfaniam]

Just propose a bond, then, to pay for it,  set aside a 1 month per year 1% increase in the sales tax, minus the usual exempted items.  Have it voted on during the general election.  When it doesn't pass, then let it go.  If by some miracle it does, yippee, build that sucker.

[Michael D Huff AIA]

No.  It would only drag out the obvious....

Get the Razorback program's PTB and the movers and shakers from LR's construction and finance community in the same room with an abundance of liquor and naked gals spinning around stripper poles.  Then force them to figure out what it would take to make a long-term deal, find the money and a place to build a new LR stadium, and sign it with a sharpie on the butt of a Brazilian hooker with ample room for additional addendums....if you catch my drift.

Done deal.  I just solved the whole thing right there.

One of the best posts I've ever read.^^^^^

[LZH]

One of the best posts I've ever read.^^^^^

Welp, Michael's in....who else is with us?

[Inhogswetrust]

B.S.  Should Nebraska play games in Omaha? All home games should be played at home, as all other major programs do.

Norfolk Nebraska, maybe they should play there.

[OldCoot]

This is the last big game the hogs will every play in WMS.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Why would one game change an opinion of mine formed over 30+ years of following the Hogs? Dumb question, but for some dummy, yes one game probably changes their perception on various things.

[urkillnmesmalls]

If it changes anyone's opinion about anything, it will be that it hasn't sold out.  I have no doubt that a lot of that is attributed to fans who feel like they're being slighted by taking games from LR in the first place, and I know a few who feel that way and don't go to ANY hog games as a result, and gave up their season tickets.  But the idea that "We'll show 'em, we won't go to WMS if they're going to pull games" is about as backward logic as anything I've ever seen.  If the thing sold out the first day single seats went on sale, and THEN they wanted to threaten not to come to FV for games any longer, that would carry a LOT more weight IMO toward keeping games there. 

I think the writing is on the wall, and a lot of people are genuinely upset, and feel slighted after all those years of keeping the UA's program funded.  I don't blame them one bit, and I have no doubt that more fans from Cent. AR will be lost in the coming years as a result.  I don't think there is an answer for that, and it's just going to be a part of what happens. 

[ICEman]

Only one of the two stadiums in the debate is great.  In addition, by SEC size standards, neither stadium qualifies.

[hawaiianhogster]

I'm a NLR native from 0-20 years old. My first college game was at WMS watching the Hogs. I don't think I would have seen a college game so early in life had it not been played in Little Rock.

I believe the Hogs should play all home games at the UA campus. We must give them the home field advantage at all times. When they have to travel for a home game it doesn't make any sense.