Punt returns, or lack of

[Granny fan]

Can someone explain to me why we don't even ATTEMPT to catch the ball let alone return it?  I understand the field being wet yesterday, but we have been doing this ALL year!!  I sure miss Joe Adams!

[bigred223]

Ya I do not understand this either. It's killing our field position.

[chenalhog]

Can someone explain to me why we don't even ATTEMPT to catch the ball let alone return it?  I understand the field being wet yesterday, but we have been doing this ALL year!!  I sure miss Joe Adams!

what happened to Bama when they fielded punts yesterday??

[Music City Razorback]

It's dangerous too - we lost a fumble when a punt hit the ground and hit our players leg.  Not sure what game that was....maybe TTU.

[lumphog]

Don't exactly know....but would like to see this fixed

[farmhawg]

our special team play across the board is pitiful. I guess that is attributed to lack of depth as well......

[moses_007]

I've noticed that since Bielema has been here that we let punts roll rather than catch them.  Guess coach is scared.

[hawgon]

Well, we might make a mistake instead of  making a play.  We can't have that now can we?

[Laughing Hog]

Can someone explain to me why we don't even ATTEMPT to catch the ball let alone return it?  I understand the field being wet yesterday, but we have been doing this ALL year!!  I sure miss Joe Adams!

My guess is that we don't have anyone the coaches can trust to field it successfully EVERY time, even if there are multiple difficulties in catching it.

[pigbacon]

I understand certain situations dictate not fielding a punt, but it's a game in which field position is crucial and conceding to not fielding punts at all is ludicrous. I've witnessed junior high and high school coaches that have done this and it serves as a big injustice to the kids as players of the game in my opinion.

As for the weather in this last game, I totally understand. 

[hobhog]

I've noticed that since Bielema has been here that we let punts roll rather than catch them.  Guess coach is scared.

I'm sure that's it.

I dont get it the lack of punt returns either. Who is special teams coach?

[mpt]

With the success Hatfield had in 1964, I bet he wanted to throw up every time we let the ball hit the ground

[ricepig]

I'm sure that's it.

I dont get it the lack of punt returns either. Who is special teams coach?

I think they split some of it, Bielema said he runs the punt team, I believe. I almost had a heart attack when we got the 12 man penalty, I counted them and was telling everyone we had 12 guys, didn't do much good in the East Indoor, haha. I about had another one we no one ran off the field for ever after it was called. The return guy should be counting, along with a GA upstairs, inexcusable.

[Lake City Hog]

We would be better off with a deep guy and a shallow guy and fair catch them all!
We started 10 possessions inside our own 20.

[Letsroll1200]

Allowing the ball to hit and roll was like a penalty. How many lost yardage was a result of not fielding the punt. Special teams cost the razorbacks the game yesterday. We couldn't field punts, recover fumbles,or kick field goals.

[code red]

I am glad someone else noticed this. It cost us big time like the 4th quarter

[bphi11ips]

I know you it's not going to be popular to point this out, but Irwin-Hill is 9th in the SEC at 41.3 yards per punt, and we are 9th in net punting at 39.8.  Not awful, but firmly in the lower half of the league.

[ricepig]

I know you it's not going to be popular to point this out, but Irwin-Hill is 9th in the SEC at 41.3 yards per punt, and we are 9th in net punting at 39.8.  Not awful, but firmly in the lower half of the league.

Well, when we're punting from our opponents 35yd line........thought I'd throw you a bone, haha.

[urkillnmesmalls]

I would like to see a stat that shows how many yards we have just given away by not fielding the punts this season.  I know in the Bama game, it had to be well over 50 yards, and it wasn't like he was short legging them 30 yards.  He was kicking them HIGH, and there was plenty of time to get under them.  That's just giving away field position, and I think that has to be addressed by CBB. 

I'm giving last night the benefit of the doubt, because of conditions, but it's been happening all season and it needs to stop.  If you're giving up 50 yards of field position or more per game...that's too costly. 

[BatesvilleHOG]

Just playing it safe until the red shirt comes off of JoJo next season.

[hawgon]

I was thinking about this driving into work this morning and in this game, it was so inexcusable.

We passed the ball 40 times in this game and only ran 20 something times.  Why do we do that in a game where we were never really behind and our defense was playing as well as theirs or better?  Why do that?  Why not in a game like this play the classic field position defensive struggle and try to flip the field on them and wait for them to make a mistake and take advantage?

Well, duh, because we never fielded a punt, we never even came close to flipping the field.  We started inside our 20 practically every single time unless we got a turnover.  The decision not to field punts, just totally fricked up what should have been our game plan playing the style we do and in this kind of game.  Instead of pounding on them and trying to pin them deep, we had BA running around out there passing the ball 40 times.

And it was clearly a coaching decision not to field the punts because late in the game, he suddenly fair caught two punts as pretty as you please.  So, obviously, he had been told not to field the others and to field those two. 

It just makes no sense.  If it really was a coaching decision, it was as dumb as that fake punt formation or whatever that fooled no one and cost us a timeout.  It was just poor fundamental football and I thought fundamental 'Real 'Merican Football' was what we were supposed to be about.

[Mr. Barnett (rbarnet424)]

its amazing how it seems like we started every single drive at the 15yd line except for kickoffs.

Their punter was hitting 60ydrs all day of which 15 yds were rolls due to us not fielding the punt.

[code red]

Just playing it safe until the red shirt comes off of JoJo next season.

with our limited passing game. We have to get chunks of yardage with special teams. I respectfully disagree time to take risk on special teams

[Hogsmo Kramer]

This one is a head scratcher.

I understand if it's wet but this has been happening in dry games too. 

Only thing I can think is Coach B doesn't trust the returner (Dean I think) but if that's the case then don't put anyone back and rush and extra man and go for the block every time.

To have a man back and not at least field a fair catch makes no sense.

[hawgon]

with our limited passing game. We have to get chunks of yardage with special teams. I respectfully disagree time to take risk on special teams

Fielding a punt should not be viewed as taking a risk.  If your coaching staff views fielding a punt as a risk, then you have serious problems with that staff.

[revolution]

Will anyone in the Ark media ask Coach B about this? Probably not, because obviously he's building this team the right way and doesn't have confidence in anyone on our roster catching a punt. It's just unfortunate we're the only Power 5 team with a roster full of guys who can't catch punts. It'll take at least another year of added depth, conditioning, strength and recruiting before we can hope to address this issue.

[hawgon]

Some of you don't want to hear this, but having a staff that is so risk adverse is the reason why we are tighter than a drum in the 4th quarter.  The staff is preaching to the kids not to make mistakes and so coaching that way that they kids are afraid to just go out there and make a play.  You can't play any sport to the best of your ability when you are worried about making a mistake.  You just have to play.

[PorkRinds]

Will anyone in the Ark media ask Coach B about this? Probably not, because obviously he's building this team the right way and doesn't have confidence in anyone on our roster catching a punt. It's just unfortunate we're the only Power 5 team with a roster full of guys who can't catch punts. It'll take at least another year of added depth, conditioning, strength and recruiting before we can hope to address this issue.

They asked him about it after this last game.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

Some of you don't want to hear this, but having a staff that is so risk adverse is the reason why we are tighter than a drum in the 4th quarter.  The staff is preaching to the kids not to make mistakes and so coaching that way that they kids are afraid to just go out there and make a play.  You can't play any sport to the best of your ability when you are worried about making a mistake.  You just have to play.

Nah you can play disciplined football and still make plays.

See bama (usually), Stanford, etc.

I agree we do tend to get conservative in the fourth at times but I think that's because everyone wants a win SO bad they're trying to just hang on to a lead and it kinda backfires, but I don't think it's a result of the coaches preaching disciplined football.

[hawgon]

Nah you can play disciplined football and still make plays.

See bama (usually), Stanford, etc.

I agree we do tend to get conservative in the fourth at times but I think that's because everyone wants a win SO bad they're trying to just hang on to a lead and it kinda backfires, but I don't think it's a result of the coaches preaching disciplined football.

There is a difference between disciplined football and doing stuff like being afraid to even have someone try to field a punt.

Disciplined football is what JFB used to preach about "Nevah, nevah, nevah let a punt hit the ground" and scared football is letting practically all of them hit the ground for the last three games.

[revolution]

They asked him about it after this last game.

Sorry, I missed that.  What was his answer?  I really do want to know.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

There is a difference between disciplined football and doing stuff like being afraid to even have someone try to field a punt.

Disciplined football is what JFB used to preach about "Nevah, nevah, nevah let a punt hit the ground" and scared football is letting practically all of them hit the ground for the last three games.

I agree and already stated that the punt return thing is a head scratcher but that's just one example in a game with many different facets.

Also in one game, I believe A&M, I remember seeing a coach waving to the returner to come up since the punter was dropping them short and we weren't fielding them.

So I wonder if it's not as cut and dry as you're trying to make it and not actually all on the coaches.

[hawgon]

I agree and already stated that the punt return thing is a head scratcher but that's just one example in a game with many different facets.

Also in one game, I believe A&M, I remember seeing a coach waving to the returner to come up since the punter was dropping them short and we weren't fielding them.

So I wonder if it's not as cut and dry as you're trying to make it and not actually all on the coaches.

No, it absolutely is that cut and dry.  Not making an attempt at fielding a punt is something that should happen ONCE.  Then the player comes to the sideline and gets his arse chewed off and for the rest of the game he is busting what is left of said arse to get up and make an attempt on fielding the punt.  If it happens more than once, it is a failure of coaching or he is actually being coached to do it that way.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

No, it absolutely is that cut and dry.  Not making an attempt at fielding a punt is something that should happen ONCE.  Then the player comes to the sideline and gets his arse chewed off and for the rest of the game he is busting what is left of said arse to get up and make an attempt on fielding the punt.  If it happens more than once, it is a failure of coaching or he is actually being coached to do it that way.

Whatever you say man but here's a hypothetical question for you.

If the kid is a bit shaky, but is the best returner you have, and you jump all over his arss for not fielding the punt on a play then the next one he makes an ill advised decision, based off your arss chewing, and fumbles the ball on your own 15 trying to field one and the other team recovers did you just help or hurt your team by being a hard arss?

[Oklahawg]

I was thinking about this driving into work this morning and in this game, it was so inexcusable.

We passed the ball 40 times in this game and only ran 20 something times.  Why do we do that in a game where we were never really behind and our defense was playing as well as theirs or better?  Why do that?  Why not in a game like this play the classic field position defensive struggle and try to flip the field on them and wait for them to make a mistake and take advantage?

Well, duh, because we never fielded a punt, we never even came close to flipping the field.  We started inside our 20 practically every single time unless we got a turnover.  The decision not to field punts, just totally fricked up what should have been our game plan playing the style we do and in this kind of game.  Instead of pounding on them and trying to pin them deep, we had BA running around out there passing the ball 40 times.

And it was clearly a coaching decision not to field the punts because late in the game, he suddenly fair caught two punts as pretty as you please.  So, obviously, he had been told not to field the others and to field those two. 

It just makes no sense.  If it really was a coaching decision, it was as dumb as that fake punt formation or whatever that fooled no one and cost us a timeout.  It was just poor fundamental football and I thought fundamental 'Real 'Merican Football' was what we were supposed to be about.

I think you've beaten this horse to death.

Then, buried it.

Then, to make sure, you dig it up and beat it again.

Thinking while driving to work - works here (to your credit), but many on the board are not so fortunate, as they cannot sacrifice the mental energy of one task for the other.

[Oklahawg]

The level of non-argument in this thread is stunning.

Analyze the hang time of the punts. Add to that the distance.

Analyze whether we were in prevent, return, or block schemes.

Analyze whether the ball is "catchable" with a reasonable bit of effort.

Lots more to the data than we are admitting in this thread.

[Tim Harris]

I think they split some of it, Bielema said he runs the punt team, I believe. I almost had a heart attack when we got the 12 man penalty, I counted them and was telling everyone we had 12 guys, didn't do much good in the East Indoor, haha. I about had another one we no one ran off the field for ever after it was called. The return guy should be counting, along with a GA upstairs, inexcusable.

In the past Michael Smith (WR Coach) had punt return coaching duties.  That might have changed by now though.

[PorkRinds]

The level of non-argument in this thread is stunning.

Analyze the hang time of the punts. Add to that the distance.

Analyze whether we were in prevent, return, or block schemes.

Analyze whether the ball is "catchable" with a reasonable bit of effort.

Lots more to the data than we are admitting in this thread.

In the end, the obvious answer, though, is that it's hurting us with field position, which is something we can't afford to give away.

[hawgon]

Whatever you say man but here's a hypothetical question for you.

If the kid is a bit shaky, but is the best returner you have, and you jump all over his arss for not fielding the punt on a play then the next one he makes an ill advised decision, based off your arss chewing, and fumbles the ball on your own 15 trying to field one and the other team recovers did you just help or hurt your team by being a hard arss?

So, you let it go for three games?  Plus, I would always rather see a kid make a mistake TRYING TO MAKE A PLAY than make one trying to avoid one.  If a kid is that shaky after all this time, put someone else back there.

Even Houston Nutt had Rosse Moreale.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

So, you let it go for three games?  Plus, I would always rather see a kid make a mistake TRYING TO MAKE A PLAY than make one trying to avoid one.  If a kid is that shaky after all this time, put someone else back there.

Even Houston Nutt had Rosse Moreale.

No I said and agree it needs to be corrected but chewing his arss during a game IMO is not the answer and will likely yield less then average results in a kid who's confidence is already questionable.

You wanna chew a kid fine but do it in practice in a controlled environment and then make him return punts over and over and over again. Make him return them in wet conditions, in traffic, without traffic, on the 50, on the 20 etc., etc. Make him field so many damn punts he's calling fair catches in his sleep.

As far as the answer I dunno but it doesn't make sense to me that our staff would be telling him not to field punts in dry conditions.

If he's not doing the job then I agree you get someone else but we may not have anyone else at which point your stuck and just have to make the best of a bad situation.

Being a punt returner isn't as easy as it looks and it takes a special kid to excel at it but I do agree that we should be able to at least find someone who can field a fair catch.

[hawgon]

No I said and agree it needs to be corrected but chewing his arss during a game IMO is not the answer and will likely yield less then average results in a kid who's confidence is already questionable.

You wanna chew a kid fine but do it in practice in a controlled environment and then make him return punts over and over and over again. Make him return them in wet conditions, in traffic, without traffic, on the 50, on the 20 etc., etc. Make him field so many damn punts he's calling fair catches in his sleep.

As far as the answer I dunno but it doesn't make sense to me that our staff would be telling him not to field punts in dry conditions.

If he's not doing the job then I agree you get someone else but we may not have anyone else at which point your stuck and just have to make the best of a bad situation.

Being a punt returner isn't as easy as it looks and it takes a special kid to excel at it but I do agree that we should be able to at least find someone who can field a fair catch.

Think about this.  The board used to blast Houston Nutt for being so risk adverse as to have Rossi Moreale and later Peyton Hillis out there just to catch punts.  Everyone knew they weren't going to return them and we blasted him on totally giving up on a phase of the game because he was afraid of making a mistake.  Well, we've taken that to another level this year.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

Think about this.  The board used to blast Houston Nutt for being so risk adverse as to have Rossi Moreale and later Peyton Hillis out there just to catch punts.  Everyone knew they weren't going to return them and we blasted him on totally giving up on a phase of the game because he was afraid of making a mistake.  Well, we've taken that to another level this year.

Well I don't have a slant against Coach B and I suspect you do, so I think we're likely looking at this from two different lenses to be honest.

[hawgon]

Well I don't have a slant against Coach B and I suspect you do, so I think we're likely looking at this from two different lenses to be honest.

I'm willing to give the man credit for being as good as we are, but the reasons we aren't 5-1 and ranked in the top 10 are disturbing and are the kind of things that turn an 11 win season into an 8 win season.  I've been to that place before in 2003 and to a lesser degree in 2006.

We are close to being really good...this year.  This is not a talent or depth issue at this point.  Talent and depth had nothing to do with why we didn't beat A&M and Alabama.

[ricepig]

We should have someone on the roster they trust to catch a punt, just fair catch it.  They had DJ 60 yards deep on all the early punts, and he didn't move up as it was coming to him, later they moved him to 45 yards and he fair caught the last two. We lost 100 yards in field position due to not fielding punts, I'm 100% behind this staff, but that was poor coaching.

[010HogFan]

I'm willing to give the man credit for being as good as we are, but the reasons we aren't 5-1 and ranked in the top 10 are disturbing and are the kind of things that turn an 11 win season into an 8 win season.  I've been to that place before in 2003 and to a lesser degree in 2006.

We are close to being really good...this year.  This is not a talent or depth issue at this point.  Talent and depth had nothing to do with why we didn't beat A&M and Alabama.

Exactly what I've been saying. Everyone has a lot of room to improve, including the coaching staff.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

I'm willing to give the man credit for being as good as we are, but the reasons we aren't 5-1 and ranked in the top 10 are disturbing and are the kind of things that turn an 11 win season into an 8 win season.  I've been to that place before in 2003 and to a lesser degree in 2006.

We are close to being really good...this year.  This is not a talent or depth issue at this point.  Talent and depth had nothing to do with why we didn't beat A&M and Alabama.

Well that's another topic but I disagree to an extent.

We lack depth and speed at WR and BA needs some more development and maturity to win games late like that. We also need more guys in the defensive secondary and at LB.

I'm not one to think the talent gap is as wide as others do but we are still missing some pieces to get us over the next hump and I hope this coming recruiting class will take care of it.

[hawgon]

Well that's another topic but I disagree to an extent.

We lack depth and speed at WR and BA needs some more development and maturity to win games late like that.

I'm not one to think the talent gap is as wide as others do but we are still missing some pieces to get us over the next hump and I hope this coming recruiting class will take care of it.

If we have to out talent teams in order to win, we may as well pack it in.  We will always be as a general rule, the least talented team in the SEC West.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

If we have to out talent teams in order to win, we may as well pack it in.  We will always be as a general rule, the least talented team in the SEC West.

Being the most talented and having quality depth are two different things.

You're getting them confused.