Our Pass Defense Scheme

[Razorfox]

It seems some folks are ticked off that we are still getting beat on deep pass plays occasionally.  I certainly don't like it either.  But at the same time, we seem marginally better in this area than in the past 6 years or so.  The area that we are WAY better in is defending the short to intermediate passes.  We have knocked down and intercepted more of these in the first five games of the year than seemingly in the decade before this season.  We are actually slowing down potential Heisman candidate QBs rather than making marginal QBs look like Heisman candidates. 

So, here is my question about our pass defense:  Is our current scheme set up to stop the short and intermediate passes at the expense of potentially allowing defenders to get behind our guys on occasion?  As we all know, it's hard for most defenses (especially one with less than superior talent like ours) to stop everything.  That being the case, I just wonder if the coaches haven't made a conscious decision to shut down the shorter stuff for the longer stuff. 

If that's the case, it's a smart move in my opinion.  The chances for success are naturally lower on the long passes anyway when compared to the shorter stuff.  I think the proof is in the pudding too with the success we've had and that we've allowed fewer points.  I have a feeling that last year's team probably would have given up 45+ points to TX A&M while we held them to 28 in regulation this year. 

[HF#1]

I think we held A&M to 14 points for 50 minutes.  Then we gave up 2 big plays where we just got beat by elite WR's.  It was bound to happen, we just allowed it at a very bad time. 

I think we are a recruiting class away, maybe two,  from being full strength in the secondary.

[hogwild210]

I think we held A&M to 14 points for 50 minutes.  Then we gave up 2 big plays where we just got beat by elite WR's.  It was bound to happen, we just allowed it at a very bad time. 

I think we are a recruiting class away, maybe two,  from being full strength in the secondary.

This. Once we get the Jimmy's and Joe's, the X's and O's will fall into place.

[HF#1]

This. Once we get the Jimmy's and Joe's, the X's and O's will fall into place.

But our guys are working their tails off and improving each and every game.  Clay Jennings is doing a hell of a job and so is Robb Smith.

[hogwild210]

But our guys are working their tails off and improving each and every game.  Clay Jennings is doing a hell of a job and so is Robb Smith.

I totally agree! We're definitely seeing improvement from game to game. I couldn't be happier with the product we're seeing, given the circumstances.

[DukeOfPork]

We have knocked down and intercepted more of these in the first five games of the year than seemingly in the decade before this season. 

This is the truth.

We are thin in the secondary and I thought we looked like we got worn down in the 4th quarter.  The dbacks were falling and letting guys behind them, etc.

[Kevin]

Same safeties, same results

[HF#1]

I totally agree! We're definitely seeing improvement from game to game. I couldn't be happier with the product we're seeing, given the circumstances.

Especially if you consider how awful we were last season.  The improvement is almost unbelievable.

[hogsanity]

The defense is better, there is no doubt about that.  The last two years we saw many 4 or 5 yard passes turn into 20+ yard plays by the opponents.  This year, not too many of those so far. 

The main problem on the deep balls seems to be the safety play.  Just like the 2nd long td by A&m, the safety was coming over, but was just late and out of position.  Same problem last year at Rutgers and at LSU.

[BorderPatrol]

Same safeties, same results

You have to be one of the most negative people that post here.

bp

[hogsanity]

You have to be one of the most negative people that post here.

bp

He may be, but he is not wrong.  Go back and watch last year at Rutgers and at LSU.  The go watch the last two A&M scores. 

[BorderPatrol]

He may be, but he is not wrong.  Go back and watch last year at Rutgers and at LSU.  The go watch the last two A&M scores.

Have you not seen improvement in their play since even the LSU game?

bp

[Kevin]

You have to be one of the most negative people that post here.

bp

Honest poster

[Kevin]

Have you not seen improvement in their play since even the LSU game?

bp

Bit on the same play on Saturday, as they did vs Lsu.   Can not let someone behind you,, in that situation. 

Cannot whiff on a tackle, because you are going for a highlight hit, and let the guy run for a td

[hogsanity]

Have you not seen improvement in their play since even the LSU game?

bp

Most certainly have.  I don't hold my breath any more when the other teams throws a 5 yard out wondering how many tackles the hogs will miss, and they have knocked down more passes.  But Saturday, they got beat on a lot of deep balls that A&M managed to screw up by dropping or tripping over themselves. Don't forget, Pope was all alone and just fell down on a sure TD on a deep ball.

[hogsanity]

If we don't have the talent at DB as so many point out, then there's no sense gnashing teeth over it mid-season.

Where we can really invest some worry is the complete lack of DB/LB recruiting commitments at this point.  Looks like a glaring hole that needs to get addressed.

Seems like they are redshirting a couple of safeties that they are pretty high on, but they did not want to throw them to the lions like they had to do with a couple guys last year. The CB play, while not spectacular, has been okay.  That's the thing, if you have outstanding safety play you can get by with avg CB play, or vie versa, but you cant just be average at both.

[realpig]

It appears to me that we have improved and our secondary will have to continue to learn responsibilities.  They did fairly well throughout the game and got caught committing to the wrong read.  This will improve with new talent, practice, and game experience.  I was pleased that we were not killed across the middle with the pass.  I hate to lose, but I love feeling that we have a chance to win. 

[hogsanity]

Defense was the difference in being 6-6 last year and being 3-9, and defense will be the difference this year in getting some sec wins, or not. Said that back in April, and in August.

[Pigsknuckles]

I think we held A&M to 14 points for 50 minutes.  Then we gave up 2 big plays where we just got beat by elite WR's.  It was bound to happen, we just allowed it at a very bad time. 

I think we are a recruiting class away, maybe two,  from being full strength in the secondary.

If A&M receivers catch half of the balls they plain dropped, the resulting score would likely not have been close.

[DukeOfPork]

If A&M receivers catch half of the balls they plain dropped, the resulting score would likely not have been close.

Yet this board somehow thinks that we are the superior team and the only reason we lost is because of a couple mistakes.

[BorderPatrol]

If A&M receivers catch half of the balls they plain dropped, the resulting score would likely not have been close.

If? If just three things happened differently for Arkansas, this game would have been a blow out.

bp

[rickm1976]

If A&M receivers catch half of the balls they plain dropped, the resulting score would likely not have been close.

If? If just three things happened differently for Arkansas, this game would have been a blow out.

So in other words, if all of these things happened differently, the end result would have still been the same.

[Josh Goforth]

Smith scheme gambles at times. He hasnt blitzed as much as I thought he would, (Auburn TD on corner blitz) most likely due to the talent and experience lacking at corner and safety. But even when he gets the players he wants they are going to give up some big ones from time to time, but come up with some big turnovers/ ints/ strip sacks tackles for loss.
His defense is the opposite of a bend but dont break, it is an all or nothing D where if an offense can beat a guy 1 on 1 it results in a big play.
Im more partial to that style myself, but he will need to it smart and dial it down in some instances like right before the half when A&M scored and they were in tight coverage.

[hawgmasta]

I often wonder why people say we have no talent in the secondary. The safeties definitely aren't rated as high but Mitchell and Washington are both 4* senior corners. Toliver may have been a 3* but had offers I would consider 4* worthy. That's not much depth yes, and ones a freshman, but we have the talent at cornerback to compete with almost anybody in the country. They were going up against huge highly rated receivers and for the most part shutting them down. Washington could've had two picks.

Flowers also helped them out immensely. It seems obvious the strength of this defense will be the line this year and the years to come. Literally one great safety or linebacker away from being able to put this away. . . Or maybe a first down or two in the fourth quarter. (Snap!)

[S.A.D.C]

Smith scheme gambles at times. He hasnt blitzed as much as I thought he would, (Auburn TD on corner blitz) most likely due to the talent and experience lacking at corner and safety. But even when he gets the players he wants they are going to give up some big ones from time to time, but come up with some big turnovers/ ints/ strip sacks tackles for loss.
His defense is the opposite of a bend but dont break, it is an all or nothing D where if an offense can beat a guy 1 on 1 it results in a big play.
Im more partial to that style myself, but he will need to it smart and dial it down in some instances like right before the half when A&M scored and they were in tight coverage.

I think we don't  lots much because that is exactly what teams like TT and TAMU want you to do.  Their QBs are more uncomfortable being forced to stay in the pocket and make reads.  If you blitz and let their big and or fast WR run hit routes they will smoke you.

I am like you- more partial to aggressiveness.  Look at the rules these days- EVERYONE is going to give up some big ones.  Allowing 30 points is like allowing 17 a few years ago.  I think turnovers are more important than ever because the rules are built to let offenses move the ball.  We are getting our hands on a lot more balls than we did last year (that's what she said)- need to turn more in turn overs.

[intelligence]

Much improved, but still not where we wanna be. good to see our players making plays on the ball for once though.

[Dropkick]

I like what I have seen from Collins so far, I think he will be an asset moving forward

[Pigsknuckles]

So in other words, if all of these things happened differently, the end result would have still been the same.

Not quite. Both teams struggled mightily to give the game to other team, and we prevailed.

[Piglet Dispersion Syndrome]

I have to believe if Tolliver is in there splitting snaps we don't give up at least one TD. Unfortunate injury.

[Youngsta71701]

He may be, but he is not wrong.  Go back and watch last year at Rutgers and at LSU.  The go watch the last two A&M scores.

Eric Bennett was the safety that was out of position against LSU last year.

[HF#1]

If A&M receivers catch half of the balls they plain dropped, the resulting score would likely not have been close.

If we could have not shot ourselves in the foot with penalties, it would have been just as lopsided in our favor. 

Truth is, A&M and Arkansas is a dead even matchup.

[bigred223]

Our guys were gassed on the last two drives. They had been nearly dominant up to that point, but our lack of quality depth at safety killed us. Our offense has to do more when the defense gives them so many chances.

[hogsanity]

Eric Bennett was the safety that was out of position against LSU last year.

I didn't say it was the same player, but the PLAYS were the same.  Safeties out of position.

[HF#1]

I didn't say it was the same player, but the PLAYS were the same.  Safeties out of position.

They were in position the other 55 minutes of the game.

[bigred223]

I didn't say it was the same player, but the PLAYS were the same.  Safeties out of position.

Do you understand the concept of fatigue? Defenders fell on both big passing plays. Why? They were tired. Once we can run at least two deep at safety that will probably happen less often.

[PonderinHog]

Do you understand the concept of fatigue? Defenders fell on both big passing plays. Why? They were tired. Once we can run at least two deep at safety that will probably happen less often.

We had the ball 10:21 in the fourth quarter.  I disagree that they were gassed.  They got burned on the deep ball - again.

[hogsanity]

They were in position the other 55 minutes of the game.

No. Pope was all alone with the ball 10 yards behind the D and tripped over the 35 yard line. Another one of their receivers, I think it was #11, dropped a long pass and a sure 1st down right before A&M missed their FG. 

[HF#1]

No. Pope was all alone with the ball 10 yards behind the D and tripped over the 35 yard line. Another one of their receivers, I think it was #11, dropped a long pass and a sure 1st down right before A&M missed their FG. 

Uh ok.  So you added 2 plays out of how many?

[Switchback]

No. Pope was all alone with the ball 10 yards behind the D and tripped over the 35 yard line. Another one of their receivers, I think it was #11, dropped a long pass and a sure 1st down right before A&M missed their FG.

Your right..  For whatever reason they didn't connect a couple of times when they got behind our D.  Their QB seemed off, don't know why but he seemed to be off a couple of times.

[hogsanity]

Uh ok.  So you added 2 plays out of how many?

Uh, you said they were in position the other 55 minutes, I brought up 2 plays that showed that was not true.

[three hog night]

The defense is better, there is no doubt about that.  The last two years we saw many 4 or 5 yard passes turn into 20+ yard plays by the opponents.  This year, not too many of those so far. 

The main problem on the deep balls seems to be the safety play.  Just like the 2nd long td by A&m, the safety was coming over, but was just late and out of position.  Same problem last year at Rutgers and at LSU.

The safeties are slow at making decisions and not fast enough to make up ground.  Opposing teams can see that our safeties have trouble with multiple decision points from 3 or 4 WR sets that have long routes the CB's release to the safeties.

[cmiller01]

Our defensive philosophy is not the problem.  We need to recruit athletic and physical Dbs with size. Help is coming.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

We just don't have the talent yet. Based on what we've seen so far, Robb Smith is a pretty good D-coordinator. I agree with the OP that our secondary seems to be playing pretty well. We've had some good players in the secondary in the past (Tramain Thomas) but the last time we had a good UNIT was in 2006. We need a good secondary unit. I think the d-line will shape up well and the linebackers are vastly improved. Secondary is the last piece of the puzzle.

[Cure]

The scheme is SOUND, it's just vulnerable over the top if the safeties bite on a double move or you throw quick screens.

Schematically, this is the most sound scheme I've seen on the hill in years.

[onebadrubi]

Something many are missing here...

The play that gaines over pursued and A&M  took the distance late is a play we've seen often, just usually on the other side.  Mallett and Wilson (More Mallett) exploited this play, we've seen it a few times in big NFL plays already this year too.  It's a soft spot, that requires a big arm and a big soft handed receiver to go get, that play is so keyed on that plus timing as to be perfect or its a pick.  Remember Cobi exploiting this against LSU often?  Chavis with Claibourne and maybe even mattheiu, these all sec types safeties, yet we exploited it.  It was just as good of a play on offense and great throw and timing by kenny hill as it was Rohan missing the tackle and us being dissapointed.  We are only seeing it because we are mad it happened.  Do I think our safety play is subpar, yes, but that play and WR route is designed to do just that.  It's a timing route that Kenny looks safeties to the middle of the field than on key looks right or left and rifles it in. 

It's the same play Manning ran multiple times to tie up the Denver/Seahawk game against what might be considered the best secondary in football?  Same play Steve Smith took to the house against Carolina recently (was assisted by another receiver/TE tipping it, actually we don't know which raven it was meant for so maybe a bad example). 

[three hog night]

Something many are missing here...

The play that gaines over pursued and A&M  took the distance late is a play we've seen often, just usually on the other side.  Mallett and Wilson (More Mallett) exploited this play, we've seen it a few times in big NFL plays already this year too.  It's a soft spot, that requires a big arm and a big soft handed receiver to go get, that play is so keyed on that plus timing as to be perfect or its a pick.  Remember Cobi exploiting this against LSU often?  Chavis with Claibourne and maybe even mattheiu, these all sec types safeties, yet we exploited it.  It was just as good of a play on offense and great throw and timing by kenny hill as it was Rohan missing the tackle and us being dissapointed.  We are only seeing it because we are mad it happened.  Do I think our safety play is subpar, yes, but that play and WR route is designed to do just that.  It's a timing route that Kenny looks safeties to the middle of the field than on key looks right or left and rifles it in. 

It's the same play Manning ran multiple times to tie up the Denver/Seahawk game against what might be considered the best secondary in football?  Same play Steve Smith took to the house against Carolina recently (was assisted by another receiver/TE tipping it, actually we don't know which raven it was meant for so maybe a bad example).

You're making sense.   That is not accepted here.... LOL