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Why we failed. (IMO)

Started by Moose, September 27, 2014, 10:39:48 pm

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Moose

Let me preface this by saying we played a helluva game. I was excited leading up to the game because I knew we could keep it close and we did. I wasn't expecting us to dominate them and set up a very good shot to win the game.

What we did on defense that was successful in the first half was make Kenny Hill uncomfortable. Trey Flowers was especially disruptive. I think Philon made a play, among others.

In the 4th quarter (and what lost us the game), we continued with four man fronts. I think the d-line got tired and weren't able to penetrate towards the qb. We couldn't get pressure and that's allowed Hill to pick us apart. No blitzes. No pressure of any kind.

alohawg

They did looked gassed towards the end, good point.
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Dionysos25

We shot ourselves in the foot with penalties and mistakes in critical spots, happened all game. That's why we lost. We didn't "fail". I thought we played a decent game. We just couldn't get over our own mishaps. I don't think A&M out-played us.
"Once again we've hit philosophical bedrock with the shovel of a stupid question."

cj_sez

Not about to give up on Bielema, but from the beginning I've had one concern. Most of his losses at Wisconsin came in the second half. He seems to be outcoached during close games in the second half.
The tripping call was very damaging, but A&M made better adjustments, especially in the 4th quarter.

oldbear

Our own mistakes in execution did us in, plain and simple.  Take away two botched snaps and we win.  Take away Skipper's two penalties and we win.  Take away two dbacks falling down and we win.  Take away a really badly hit field goal and we win.  You don't have to take them all away.  Just one of the above.  We lost the game, but progress is very evident.  The coaches did not lose this game.  Simple lack of execution did.

bphi11ips

Quote from: oldbear on September 27, 2014, 11:52:15 pm
Our own mistakes in execution did us in, plain and simple.  Take away two botched snaps and we win.  Take away Skipper's two penalties and we win.  Take away two dbacks falling down and we win.  Take away a really badly hit field goal and we win.  You don't have to take them all away.  Just one of the above.  We lost the game, but progress is very evident.  The coaches did not lose this game.  Simple lack of execution did.

True, but the coaching wasn't well executed, either, in the fourth quarter. 
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Hog_Fink

our defense played stellar. i think our offense put us in a couple bad spots.

Moose

Quote from: oldbear on September 27, 2014, 11:52:15 pm
Our own mistakes in execution did us in, plain and simple.  Take away two botched snaps and we win.  Take away Skipper's two penalties and we win.  Take away two dbacks falling down and we win.  Take away a really badly hit field goal and we win.  You don't have to take them all away.  Just one of the above.  We lost the game, but progress is very evident.  The coaches did not lose this game.  Simple lack of execution did.

The missed field goal was huge. Remind me why Hedlund isn't kicking this year?

The Pulse

For what Robb Smith has to work with he is doing pretty good imo. It's easy to tell the defense has improved tremendously by watching this game. We are also starting to get some better recruits. We will continue to get better on D

The offense is what I'm worried about going forward. In critical passing downs such as 3rd and 5 or longer and two minute situations our conversion percentages are down right atrocious. We ran the ball well enough against teams like Texas Tech and N.ILL that we were never in any 3rd and 5 or longer situation except maybe once or twice.

But when we face teams like Auburn and TAMU (and will Alabama next week). We struggle mightily converting in critical, game deciding situations. We look great passing the ball when the D is expecting run, but when they know it's a passing down, it's a sure bet someone in the 3rd row is getting a football souvenir. 

I wouldn't necessarily say we need more balance, but we have to be able to pass the ball effectively when we want to pass the ball.

Bielema might be used to facing maybe 1 top ten team a year in the big ten, but this is the SEC where you face 6 or 7 every year. You have to be very successful in converting critical 3rd/4th downs and drive the ball down-field with the game on the line to beat the teams we face week in and week out.


redeye

Quote from: Moose on September 27, 2014, 10:39:48 pm
Let me preface this by saying we played a helluva game. I was excited leading up to the game because I knew we could keep it close and we did. I wasn't expecting us to dominate them and set up a very good shot to win the game.

What we did on defense that was successful in the first half was make Kenny Hill uncomfortable. Trey Flowers was especially disruptive. I think Philon made a play, among others.

In the 4th quarter (and what lost us the game), we continued with four man fronts. I think the d-line got tired and weren't able to penetrate towards the qb. We couldn't get pressure and that's allowed Hill to pick us apart. No blitzes. No pressure of any kind.

That's also because our offense couldn't keep our defense off the field.  If we'd had any drives over 3 minutes in the 4th, A&M's defense may have been gasping for air.  We didn't put 'em away offensively.

1highhog

Quote from: cj_sez on September 27, 2014, 11:48:01 pm
Not about to give up on Bielema, but from the beginning I've had one concern. Most of his losses at Wisconsin came in the second half. He seems to be outcoached during close games in the second half.
The tripping call was very damaging, but A&M made better adjustments, especially in the 4th quarter.

Yes please, give up on CBB, please I beg you, and the Razorbacks, and go find you another team.  I swear dude, it's dumb comments like this that show just how stupid of a fan base we really have.  I elect you the leader, you shall now and forever be known as Sir Dumba&&.

sharpd1

Really, it's just depth that is killing us.  Our ones can match up with anyone, but we don't have much behind them.  The game today really came down to their DL being deeper than our OL.

hogville38

Quote from: oldbear on September 27, 2014, 11:52:15 pm
Our own mistakes in execution did us in, plain and simple.  Take away two botched snaps and we win.  Take away Skipper's two penalties and we win.  Take away two dbacks falling down and we win.  Take away a really badly hit field goal and we win.  You don't have to take them all away.  Just one of the above.  We lost the game, but progress is very evident.  The coaches did not lose this game.  Simple lack of execution did.
Don't forget the blatant illegal procedure the zebras missed. Ritter's crew is terrible.

 

ballz2thewall

Quote from: Moose on September 27, 2014, 10:39:48 pm
Let me preface this by saying we played a helluva game. I was excited leading up to the game because I knew we could keep it close and we did. I wasn't expecting us to dominate them and set up a very good shot to win the game.

What we did on defense that was successful in the first half was make Kenny Hill uncomfortable. Trey Flowers was especially disruptive. I think Philon made a play, among others.

In the 4th quarter (and what lost us the game), we continued with four man fronts. I think the d-line got tired and weren't able to penetrate towards the qb. We couldn't get pressure and that's allowed Hill to pick us apart. No blitzes. No pressure of any kind.

yes; heck of a game.  great defensive play.

in the end you KNEW a&M was gonna get it. you could sense it, and i think, with the OP, that the defense was gassed and we should have rushed more than 4.
The rest of the frog.

RazorChuck

Quote from: Moose on September 27, 2014, 10:39:48 pm
Let me preface this by saying we played a helluva game. I was excited leading up to the game because I knew we could keep it close and we did. I wasn't expecting us to dominate them and set up a very good shot to win the game.

What we did on defense that was successful in the first half was make Kenny Hill uncomfortable. Trey Flowers was especially disruptive. I think Philon made a play, among others.

In the 4th quarter (and what lost us the game), we continued with four man fronts. I think the d-line got tired and weren't able to penetrate towards the qb. We couldn't get pressure and that's allowed Hill to pick us apart. No blitzes. No pressure of any kind.

Mostly though, it was biased officiating, we never seem to get those timely breaks, you know , the ones where the other team scores late in the game to ice it, but it gets called bak/

rzrbackrob

Quote from: RazorChuck on September 28, 2014, 05:54:04 am
Mostly though, it was biased officiating, we never seem to get those timely breaks, you know , the ones where the other team scores late in the game to ice it, but it gets called bak/

The game turned on one play, and the tripping call was a legit call. That call was on the player and the coaching staff, not the ref. This was not Gainesville 2009.
Good is the enemy of great

bigredone

Quote from: rzrbackrob on September 28, 2014, 06:52:53 am
The game turned on one play, and the tripping call was a legit call. That call was on the player and the coaching staff, not the ref. This was not Gainesville 2009.

Correct, that is the one play that was completely under the Hogs control. Holding can be called on pretty much any play they want but the tripping was not accidental. I guarantee you will not see him do that again.

Choctaw Hog

The Hogs make an easy FG, or the ref doesn't throw either of the flags on Skipper then people like you are posting why we won, singing the Hogs' praises, and predicting us to run the table. 

And for what it's worth, it's redundant to indicate (IMO/in my opinion). Since you made the post whose opinion would it be other than yours? 

goneal

I've been watching the Hogs since the early 60's and I've never seen a Top Ten team try as hard as A&M did to give us this game. We were simply too undisciplined to take it. Gassed my a@@! I didn't see anyone on the sidelines sucking oxygen or being helped off the field at the end of the game. Like Lombardi said,"Fatigue makes cowards of us all." I would have been terrifically proud of our guys if they had played a good solid game, with good solid coaching and stayed within 10 points. To lose this game the way they did just exposes the lack of discipline, focus and desire on the players part and a lack of adaptablility and creativity on the coach's part. What concerns me most was CBB's remarks after the game that he felt good that the things that got them beat were of their own doing and that he could "fix those". What the hell??? He's been through two springs, two summers and 17 games and we're still working on the basics?
To all the BA haters; just so you know, only HALF his helmet stickers are for participation. The other half is for throwing the ball into the stands.

murthage

Bottom Line...  Blame Play Calling, being tired, officials, etc...

Execution is what really turned the game....
9 self inflicted penalties, with these important ones with their results:
1. Tripping... we had the ball on the 3 yard line, where even a FG would have sealed the game.
2. Holding.... TD pass nullified.
3. Off Sides.  3rd and 5 resulting in TAM TD, instead of 3rd and 10.

Missed Tackles:
Tackles on these plays would have extended play and possibly let the clock run out.
1. CB missed tackle which resulted in a long TD late in the game, we were up by 1 TD.
2. CB fell down which resulted in a long TD when we were ahead by 2 TD's.

And.... obviously:
The missed FG
And the muffed exchange from center to QB late in the game, when trying to run out the time.

These can and will be fixed.

SEC teams we could and should beat coming up, based on their play yesterday:

1. Ole Miss.... struggled with Memphis.
2. Missouri.... weak against South Carolina with a 1 point last gasp win.
3. Georgia..... Stop Gurley and we win.
4. LSU...... a maybe, why?  We always play good against LSU, and we have them at home.

Then add UAB, and we could have a very decent season.

As stated in another thread, CBB has a documented record of changing Coaches that do not meet his standards. Think Markuson, who lasted 2 weeks, and the mysterious departure of Chris Ash as Defensive Coordinator last year.  CBB will do what's right.   

Thinking positive, but still was up late last night rethinking and rehashing all the "what ifs" about this gut wrenching, unnecessary loss.

12247

I am not a Big BB fan but I believe his team did well against A&M.  They were highly ranked and deserved to be.  We did well as long as we had players equal to the A&M players.  Anyone who thinks a well conditioned individual can perform just as hard and fast in the 4th quarter as in the 1st quarter if he has played nearly every play all game is just crazy.  Try running 30 wind sprints of 20 yards with a 10 second break between each and see if you can perform the last 3 as fast as you ran the best 1 of the first 10.  If you've given your all throughout, you won't even be close.  We needed our best playing of the game in the fourth quarter and we just didn't have the horsepower to overcome A&M, but they did have the horsepower to overcome us.

Sure we made mistakes throughout the game that could have been the difference but so did and A&M.  We caused some of those mistakes just as they caused us to make mistakes.  If you consider where we came from to where we are and then do the same for A&M, we far outplayed them.  We performed far better than our ranking while they didn't.  They won as they should have but it wasn't easy. 

In the 4th quarter, our D was a half step slower, a bit less powerful and a split second off on the thought process.  Our O was much the same.  I saw screw-ups by the refs but I don't believe that was the big difference.  I saw screw-ups by the coaches but when under the gun with a wore out team and you're trying to invent something that might work, that's gonna happen.  A&M beat us because they were every bit our measure as a team in every department and just better in some areas.  We can whine and cry and piss and moan, but we are, by intent, in the SEC.  This team could easily be among the top 3 or 4 teams in nearly any other of the power 5 conferences.  But in reality, we are among the bottom feeders in our own conference.  I am proud that we played about as good as I think we are capable of playing against A&M.  I believe we left it all out there.  It just wasn't enough.

swinesation

Quote from: oldbear on September 27, 2014, 11:52:15 pm
Our own mistakes in execution did us in, plain and simple.  Take away two botched snaps and we win.  Take away Skipper's two penalties and we win.  Take away two dbacks falling down and we win.  Take away a really badly hit field goal and we win.  You don't have to take them all away.  Just one of the above.  We lost the game, but progress is very evident.  The coaches did not lose this game.  Simple lack of execution did.

It's true, and maddening. Take away one of those mistakes and we win.

husker71

I think the bad snap that happened on 1st and 10 and made it 2nd and 12 really hurt.  Put us in a position late in the game we should not have been in and we were gassed. I think we just need to keep recruiting and build up a 2nd team on both offense and defense (at least at a few positions) and we will be much better.

010HogFan

Quote from: 12247 on September 28, 2014, 10:00:26 am
I am not a Big BB fan but I believe his team did well against A&M.  They were highly ranked and deserved to be.  We did well as long as we had players equal to the A&M players.  Anyone who thinks a well conditioned individual can perform just as hard and fast in the 4th quarter as in the 1st quarter if he has played nearly every play all game is just crazy.  Try running 30 wind sprints of 20 yards with a 10 second break between each and see if you can perform the last 3 as fast as you ran the best 1 of the first 10.  If you've given your all throughout, you won't even be close.  We needed our best playing of the game in the fourth quarter and we just didn't have the horsepower to overcome A&M, but they did have the horsepower to overcome us.

Sure we made mistakes throughout the game that could have been the difference but so did and A&M.  We caused some of those mistakes just as they caused us to make mistakes.  If you consider where we came from to where we are and then do the same for A&M, we far outplayed them.  We performed far better than our ranking while they didn't.  They won as they should have but it wasn't easy. 

In the 4th quarter, our D was a half step slower, a bit less powerful and a split second off on the thought process.  Our O was much the same.  I saw screw-ups by the refs but I don't believe that was the big difference.  I saw screw-ups by the coaches but when under the gun with a wore out team and you're trying to invent something that might work, that's gonna happen.  A&M beat us because they were every bit our measure as a team in every department and just better in some areas.  We can whine and cry and piss and moan, but we are, by intent, in the SEC.  This team could easily be among the top 3 or 4 teams in nearly any other of the power 5 conferences.  But in reality, we are among the bottom feeders in our own conference.  I am proud that we played about as good as I think we are capable of playing against A&M.  I believe we left it all out there.  It just wasn't enough.

I like BB, but this is the post of the day.

 

LZH

Quote from: bphi11ips on September 27, 2014, 11:59:53 pm
True, but the coaching wasn't well executed, either, in the fourth quarter. 

Correct.  I doubt anyone expected Bielema to be a quick-on-his-feet coach like Petrino was, but I was pretty disappointed by how we looked like we were just trying to hang on there in the 4th qtr as opposed to staying aggressive and adjusting to what A&M was doing.  That, and I think we're out of shape....at least somewhat.

LJHOG

Quote from: Moose on September 27, 2014, 10:39:48 pm
Let me preface this by saying we played a helluva game. I was excited leading up to the game because I knew we could keep it close and we did. I wasn't expecting us to dominate them and set up a very good shot to win the game.

What we did on defense that was successful in the first half was make Kenny Hill uncomfortable. Trey Flowers was especially disruptive. I think Philon made a play, among others.

In the 4th quarter (and what lost us the game), we continued with four man fronts. I think the d-line got tired and weren't able to penetrate towards the qb. We couldn't get pressure and that's allowed Hill to pick us apart. No blitzes. No pressure of any kind.
stupid penalities and suspect coaching cost this game.  if we can't play any better in the 4th quarter, then we are going 0 fer in the SEC again.  for the life of me  I don't understand why we don't blitz #51 every passing down.  if we're gonna leave him in coverage might was well play with 10

1highhog

Quote from: 12247 on September 28, 2014, 10:00:26 am
I am not a Big BB fan but I believe his team did well against A&M.  They were highly ranked and deserved to be.  We did well as long as we had players equal to the A&M players.  Anyone who thinks a well conditioned individual can perform just as hard and fast in the 4th quarter as in the 1st quarter if he has played nearly every play all game is just crazy.  Try running 30 wind sprints of 20 yards with a 10 second break between each and see if you can perform the last 3 as fast as you ran the best 1 of the first 10.  If you've given your all throughout, you won't even be close.  We needed our best playing of the game in the fourth quarter and we just didn't have the horsepower to overcome A&M, but they did have the horsepower to overcome us.

Sure we made mistakes throughout the game that could have been the difference but so did and A&M.  We caused some of those mistakes just as they caused us to make mistakes.  If you consider where we came from to where we are and then do the same for A&M, we far outplayed them.  We performed far better than our ranking while they didn't.  They won as they should have but it wasn't easy. 

In the 4th quarter, our D was a half step slower, a bit less powerful and a split second off on the thought process.  Our O was much the same.  I saw screw-ups by the refs but I don't believe that was the big difference.  I saw screw-ups by the coaches but when under the gun with a wore out team and you're trying to invent something that might work, that's gonna happen.  A&M beat us because they were every bit our measure as a team in every department and just better in some areas.  We can whine and cry and piss and moan, but we are, by intent, in the SEC.  This team could easily be among the top 3 or 4 teams in nearly any other of the power 5 conferences.  But in reality, we are among the bottom feeders in our own conference.  I am proud that we played about as good as I think we are capable of playing against A&M.  I believe we left it all out there.  It just wasn't enough.

With all that you said, which was a lot by the way, you're not a fan of CBB, hmmm.  I guess this team has gotten better, excuse me, has made tremendous strides in just one short off season by itself without any Coaching or recruiting done by the Head Coach and the staff he's put together.  Hammer, meet nail.

Why there are supposed Razorback fans out there that still have issues with our Coach is beyond me at this point, he inherited a dumpster fire, and yet in his very short time here has turned around this team to the disbelief of the whole SEC, for Gods sake, the whole friggin Country!  Yet not the so-called fans inhabiting this Board.  The whole Country Football wise is just looking at CBB and staff and saying WOW, they've really got something going down in Fayetteville, he's turning that program around quick. 

But they don't see the other things he's done that's even more important, such as making sure the young men on this team stay out of trouble and keep their nose clean and go to class, wasn't there and article out a few weeks ago stating that every football player on the team was getting A's and B's, but when he arrived about half were in danger of failing?  I may be off on that, someone else may need to find that article, but to me that's very important that he's done that in such a short time, while also bringing in some of the best talent this team has seen in years.

Yet, you don't like him, I get it, you liked Smiley, and you thought he deserved more than the year he got.  Well, I disagree.  So we can agree to disagree I guess.

three hog night

Quote from: oldbear on September 27, 2014, 11:52:15 pm
Our own mistakes in execution did us in, plain and simple.  Take away two botched snaps and we win.  Take away Skipper's two penalties and we win.  Take away two dbacks falling down and we win.  Take away a really badly hit field goal and we win.  You don't have to take them all away.  Just one of the above.  We lost the game, but progress is very evident.  The coaches did not lose this game.  Simple lack of execution did.

Yes just one would have flipped the win.   The passing in the 4th quarter will make lots of people scratch their heads, but we don't know what audibles were used. 
Petrino left a mess and Bielema is trying to fill in the talent gaps.  Anderson finally has some talent to work with.  He needs more at select positions and that will come in the next recruiting class. 
Posters that think they are Jim Rhome are ruining message boards.

The Boar War

Quote from: cj_sez on September 27, 2014, 11:48:01 pm
Not about to give up on Bielema, but from the beginning I've had one concern. Most of his losses at Wisconsin came in the second half. He seems to be outcoached during close games in the second half.
The tripping call was very damaging, but A&M made better adjustments, especially in the 4th quarter.

Most losses do occur in the second half.

jm

We lost because we are not good enough right now. We lost due to our own penalties, missed field goals, missed blocks, and coverage errors. We were not beat by a more talented team. Our team is used to losing and doesn't know how to stay relaxed and just play football when in a pressure situation.

Quickdraw

Quote from: Dionysos25 on September 27, 2014, 11:35:07 pm
We shot ourselves in the foot with penalties and mistakes in critical spots, happened all game. That's why we lost. We didn't "fail". I thought we played a decent game. We just couldn't get over our own mishaps. I don't think A&M out-played us.

I agree. you can't double your penalties and turn the ball over three times and win games. Stats usually don't lie. He who makes the fewest mistakes usually wins the game. Arkansas made to many mistakes. They didn't play clean. That is what cost them the game!

GunnerHawg70

Quote from: oldbear on September 27, 2014, 11:52:15 pm
Our own mistakes in execution did us in, plain and simple.  Take away two botched snaps and we win.  Take away Skipper's two penalties and we win.  Take away two dbacks falling down and we win.  Take away a really badly hit field goal and we win.  You don't have to take them all away.  Just one of the above.  We lost the game, but progress is very evident.  The coaches did not lose this game.  Simple lack of execution did.
Well said...I wish all the haters would read this and understand that we were just "1" play away from winning against the #6 team in the Nation... :razorback:

Snoutman

I think before you start pointing out coaching or team failures for that matter, you should first post your credentials that allow you to be critical.