What people are missing about the botched reverse

[Nosboar Accubond]

Some of our fans act like Chaney is some off the wall OC who dials up plays out of his butt.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing.

Most plays that fail are the result of poor execution. That doesn't make them bad plays or plays that were called at the wrong time.

I'm also SURE that a certain Hogville poster will find this thread shortly and take it over until he rides it into the ground.

Some of our fans also act like any question of any call is an indictment of the Coach and we must think they need fired. Again goes both ways. No reason to be intolerable of logical discussion. Many on here are... Just because your being "positive" doesn't mean a person can't also be out of line.

My favorite thing about sports with my friends are the debates and discussion. Good luck finding that here.

[Mike Irwin]

Never miss a chance to belittle Hog fans.

Not fans. A Fan who is never wrong. Ask him.

[hogsanity]

TRUE

Again, WHEN were they supposed to see this when 4 out of 5 passes went for TD's?  Now, if they had wanted to throw to the young guys with AA at Qb. fine.  They did call some pass plays with him in the game, he went 4-9 with a pick. 

Actually, the Hogs threw 2 more passes against Nicholls than they did against TT.  Cornellius, Antwine, Morgan, Edwards all caught passes against Nicholls.

[Science Fiction Greg]

{deleted}

[Exit Pursued by a Boar]

Was it necessary at that point on the field or that point in the game?  NO. Just like the opening reverse against NSU was not necessary either, BUT look at all a defense now has to watch EVERY TIME Hatcher goes in motion.  So far we have run the speed sweep, the end around, the toss reverse, showed the attempted reverse after hand off, and also ran the play where he comes in motion, and sneaks into the flat off play action on a type of swing/screen pass.

I don't think people are missing this point. I am certainly in favor of making future opponents think about other options to keep their defense less focused on our run game. Makes sense. But I still argue against the reverse play being called where and when it was called.  The game was still in doubt somewhat, a score there puts a lot of pressure on TTU, especially with us getting the ball to begin the half, and we were running it down their throats.  Better to secure the immediate goal of winning the game there than to set up future opponents.  If the play had worked would I have complained? Probably not, but I would have scratched my head a little.  Also, I'm not really complaining now; I just see that call as odd given its circumstances.

EFBAB

[texas tush hog]

It wasn't clear if you were saying those coaches held Bielema and Chaney in high regard or low regard. There is so much negativity around here I assumed the negative.

If you were indeed saying those coaches hold Bielema and Chaney in high regard, then great and I apologize for making the wrong assumption.

Apology accepted, you and I are on the same page 99% of the time. I want it known that I questioned the hiring of Bielema at the time but only because I had a Butch Davis agenda but it was explained to me why that could not happen. I quickly turned around after I saw how Bielema operated. Have been on board since the first spring and haven't looked back.

[ChitownHawg]

High regard, thank you sheesh.

So I did read your post correctly. Someone owes me some eggs! 

[hogsanity]

I don't think people are missing this point. I am certainly in favor of making future opponents think about other options to keep their defense less focused on our run game. Makes sense. But I still argue against the reverse play being called where and when it was called.  The game was still in doubt somewhat, a score there puts a lot of pressure on TTU, especially with us getting the ball to begin the half, and we were running it down their throats.  Better to secure the immediate goal of winning the game there than to set up future opponents.  If the play had worked would I have complained? Probably not, but I would have scratched my head a little.  Also, I'm not really complaining now; I just see that call as odd given its circumstances.

EFBAB

Where better to run it, actually. If it works, it is likely a TD, and if the worst happens, which it did, they still have 60+ yards to cover.

Run it on your own 25?  the 50? Something bad happens there, and it is a lot worse.

Look, there is never really a good time for a play to result in a TO, but some places are worse than others. And, for once in a long time, the D actually stood up and got the ball back after a TO.

[Mike Irwin]

Assuming you are talking about me, man, you really don't like it when someone disagrees with you.  I have been nothing but polite and have repeatedly said it was a small issue, but one that should definitely been considered. 

As for going further with it, I feel no need to.  I've said what I need to say.  I just find this reluctance to accept call what was a pretty obvious mistake what it was.  I'm done.  No more posts on this topic from me.  I'm sure you'll be happy about that.

If you weren't talking about me, disregard.

I am not referring to you.

[Science Fiction Greg]

I am not referring to you.

Ah, my apologies.  Will delete my post.

[PonderinHog]

Again, WHEN were they supposed to see this when 4 out of 5 passes went for TD's?  Now, if they had wanted to throw to the young guys with AA at Qb. fine.  They did call some pass plays with him in the game, he went 4-9 with a pick. 

Actually, the Hogs threw 2 more passes against Nicholls than they did against TT.  Cornellius, Antwine, Morgan, Edwards all caught passes against Nicholls.

Just on observation, but it seems to me that the NSU game would have been an ideal situation to practice diving catches.  I can't remember the WR coach we had way back when, but  he had our receivers diving over tackle dummies and stretching out to make circus catches.  What was that guy's name?  Raymond Berry?

[hogsanity]

Just on observation, but it seems to me that the NSU game would have been an ideal situation to practice diving catches.

I would think the ideal time to practice diving catches would be.......PRACTICE.

[hogsanity]

After reading this thread, and several others today, it is VERY obvious most of you geniuses know very little about football and play calling.

You just want to see a QB throw the ball all over the field.

bp

Yep, up 73-7 on NSu or 49-28 on TT with 9 minutes to go and the only way TT could possibly come back was to get the ball back, Hogs should have been working on the passing game.

[PonderinHog]

I would think the ideal time to practice diving catches would be.......PRACTICE.

NSU WAS practice!

[hogsanity]

NSU WAS practice!

I would hope the Hogs practices are tougher than that.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Yep, up 73-7 on NSu or 49-28 on TT with 9 minutes to go and the only way TT could possibly come back was to get the ball back, Hogs should have been working on the passing game.

Not on the road playing a Big 12 team that runs a hurry up. Run the ball over them, drain the clock and get out of there with a win. Period. Leave the practice for the multimillion dollar practice field we have.

[hogsanity]

Not on the road playing a Big 12 team that runs a hurry up. Run the ball over them, drain the clock and get out of there with a win. Period. Leave the practice for the multimillion dollar practice field we have.

You know that, and I know that, but some of the passing addicts here don't seem to understand that.

[Hogfaniam]

We seriously need a sarcasm button...

[Dirty]

You think we lost the game.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

You know that, and I know that, but some of the passing addicts here don't seem to understand that.

We'll throw the ball when its time, that I'm sure of. But Saturday wasn't the time or place for it. Some people can't get it thru their heads that we went and beat a team with a hurry up by keeping the ball and not letting them have it.

[PonderinHog]

We'll throw the ball when its time, that I'm sure of. But Saturday wasn't the time or place for it. Some people can't get it thru their heads that we went and beat a team with a hurry up by keeping the ball and not letting them have it.

The best defense is a good offense.

[Choctaw Hog]

Was it necessary at that point on the field or that point in the game?  NO. Just like the opening reverse against NSU was not necessary either, BUT look at all a defense now has to watch EVERY TIME Hatcher goes in motion.  So far we have run the speed sweep, the end around, the toss reverse, showed the attempted reverse after hand off, and also ran the play where he comes in motion, and sneaks into the flat off play action on a type of swing/screen pass.

If you watched many of our longer run plays, often they would motion Hatcher and draw the safety away from the point of attack, giving the offense one, maybe two more step before the safety got there in run support (not that he could tackle once he got there ).

Plus at some point in time we will run a fake reverse off that same formation/play. The laughable aspect of that play was if it had worked all these football message board "experts"'would be singing Chaney's praises.

Critique everything even when you know little about the subject. It's what losers do.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

The best defense is a good offense.

Keep your defense fresh.

[farmhawg]

Never miss a chance to belittle Hog fans.

always.....

[bpoecell]

Only because he is allowed to do that to threads.

As for the play calls, TT even stopped a few of our run plays for little or no gain, were those bad play calls, or poorly executed?  Also, sometimes even a good play gets beat by a defender making a good play on his part. When you run 70+ plays a game, someone at some point is going to miss an assignment.

This. The idea that if a trick play doesn't work or gets blown up it was a horrible call is silly. It isn't all about one play; it's just as important to freeze the defense for a second every they see Hatcher go into motion. Having one or two of those in your aresenal can affect the defense on every snap.

[LZH]

Keep your defense fresh.

We couldn't get our offense off the field and that kept Tech's offense fresh.

[Carl Lazlo]

We couldn't get our offense off the field and that kept Tech's offense fresh.

Fresh and out of sync

[cosmodrum]

Not fans. A Fan who is never wrong. Ask him.

I have seen post after post where you talk down to anyone with a differing opinion than you. You tell them "you don't have a clue" etc., when it is completely unnecessary. We actually had a pleasant, well-meaning visitor from TTech on the board and I'm surprised you didn't run him off. We get it, you've covered the Hogs for a long time. That doesn't give you the right to talk to everyone like they have Infamil dripping from their chin.

[Dropkick]

Some of our fans act like Chaney is some off the wall OC who dials up plays out of his butt.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing.

Most plays that fail are the result of poor execution. That doesn't make them bad plays or plays that were called at the wrong time.

I'm also SURE that a certain Hogville poster will find this thread shortly and take it over until he rides it into the ground.

Which DH are you referring to?

[Locutus_of_Boar]

I think he knows exactly what he's doing.

Most plays that fail are the result of poor execution. That doesn't make them bad plays or plays that were called at the wrong time.

Agreed, he knows what he's doing even when some of his calls are a little beyond what they can execute just yet.  Sometimes it almost seems as if he's CBB's alternate ego calling a more aggressive game that Bielema would not be caught calling himself.

One wonders if CBB picked him intentionally for that reason.

[pigture perfect]

It was a terrible call. No escaping that. I think Bielema likely told him to cut the crap after that.

Not so. I just rewatched that play. We pulled our guard and our center missed a seal block leaving the gap open for the DT to disrupt the play. A half step more and we are talking about the play of the game perhaps.

[1960'sHogFan]

A key to running the ball straight ahead, might be to have the defense looking and thinking, from side to side?

If this might be possible, how do we accomplish this?

[woopig71657]

We were not running the ball well on that drive. We had three successful runs at the beginning of that drive, but our previous 3 runs leading up to that play only gained a total of 3 yards.

[lumphog]

Apology accepted, you and I are on the same page 99% of the time. I want it known that I questioned the hiring of Bielema at the time but only because I had a Butch Davis agenda but it was explained to me why that could not happen. I quickly turned around after I saw how Bielema operated. Have been on board since the first spring and haven't looked back.

+1 for hangin in there & like you I wanted Butch, but am ALL IN with CBB.........I believe we have the right man.....Kudos to Jeff Long

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Fresh and out of sync

Yep...The onus is on them to make something happen and happen fast. Speed something up with a freshman QB and you will probably get mistakes regularly. Sit over there on the sidelines and watch your Defense get turned in to ground hamburger, knowing that they are not gonna help you one little bit. So your offense and special teams will have to win the game..... We didn't need to punt, they don't get the opportunity to pin us deep. Onsides kick after a score would be novel, but do you really want our offense that much closer to your endzone.

That kind of football is fun for me to watch.

[Deep Shoat]

That's fine but don't demean another coach unless you are willing to explain how it is you came up with that information.

I could get on this board under a fake name and claim all sort of things. How is anyone supposed to know if it's accurate?

I think you misread his post.  He wasn't demeaning anyone.

[AugustaHog]

Was the reverse Texas Tech ran earlier from about the same spot a terrible call? 

Or the reverse pass down near the goal line that Petrino used to beat Auburn in year 1?

Those plays were touchdowns.

TT wasn't moving the ball with quite the same consistency as we were and CBP had next to no proven offensive weapons that year.  I think most are agreeable that there is nothing wrong with a play like that, but the timing and situation were poor.  If in two weeks we are getting stuffed on the run and having issues picking up yardage, it is a creative way to get Keon in space for sure.  There's just no need to reinvent the wheel.

[DeltaBoy]

That's another excellent point. Some fans have the second half of that game stuck in their minds. In the second half pretty much every run call worked. That was not the case in the first half.

I think Texas Tech is a pretty good offensive team with a really bad defense. Still those defensive guys were pumped up and played as hard as they could in the first half. They looked gassed in the second half.

Chaney called what, 10 passes in the first half and two in the second? Something like that.

The point is his play calling had to be more varied and creative in the first half because Tech was doing a better job of stopping the run.

Yep we did enough passing to keep them thinking and not reacting.  They were wore plumb out by the 4th Quarter.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

If the play was executed well and went for a touchdown, we'd be talking about how good of a playcall it was.

[JayBell]

With Bielema's offense, you only need to pass enough to open it up for the run.  If you run the offense effectively, then eventually the power of the running game and the fatigue, both mental and physical, of the defense takes over.  At that point, there's no reason to pass if your run game is taking care of the job.

I don't understand why some fans want to see more passes just for the sake of seeing more passes.

[JayBell]

Bielema, Chaney, Allen and everyone else will be saying all of the same stuff over the next few weeks, "We will definitely pass more," "We need to pass more effectively," etc.

If everything goes as planned against NIU or A&M, you're going to see 60+ running plays called again.  Arkansas has favorable matchups on offense against virtually everyone left on the schedule except Alabama and LSU.  There's at least a 50% chance that Arkansas will run the ball in the rest of the other games just as much as they did against Tech.

[Hoggish1]

Some of our fans act like Chaney is some off the wall OC who dials up plays out of his butt.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing.

Most plays that fail are the result of poor execution. That doesn't make them bad plays or plays that were called at the wrong time.

I'm also SURE that a certain Hogville poster will find this thread shortly and take it over until he rides it into the ground.

Exactly.  Had Collins been a little deeper, the play would have worked like a charm, for six!

[kaptainkory]

We were not running the ball well on that drive. We had three successful runs at the beginning of that drive, but our previous 3 runs leading up to that play only gained a total of 3 yards.

On replay I noticed that, too.  I think we had to successfully convert 2 3rd-and-longs on pass plays to get to that point.  When you consider on that particular drive TT was having more success stopping our run, we were squeezed enough around the goal line we might not have wanted to air it out, I could reasonably see why Chaney might think that miss-direction play could catch them off-guard and punch in a TD.  In retrospect, I don't think it was quite as horrible (of a call) as it first seemed.

[hogmolar]

Was the reverse Texas Tech ran earlier from about the same spot a terrible call? 

Or the reverse pass down near the goal line that Petrino used to beat Auburn in year 1?

Those plays were touchdowns.

+1

Too many times people cannot give credit. If you watch the play Hatcher walks into the endzone untouched if Collins didn't get blown up by a defensive line man. This time defense better than offense

[LZH]

Fresh and out of sync

Welp, there's one.                           

Yep...The onus is on them to make something happen and happen fast. Speed something up with a freshman QB and you will probably get mistakes regularly. Sit over there on the sidelines and watch your Defense get turned in to ground hamburger, knowing that they are not gonna help you one little bit. So your offense and special teams will have to win the game..... We didn't need to punt, they don't get the opportunity to pin us deep. Onsides kick after a score would be novel, but do you really want our offense that much closer to your endzone.

That kind of football is fun for me to watch.

.......and there's two.                             

[Großer Kriegschwein]

We couldn't get our offense off the field and that kept Tech's offense fresh.

Our offense came off the field every series. After we scored. I gives a rats [CENSORED] how fresh their offense is while its sitting on the sidelines. I say send some mai tais and some lawn chairs over there so they can be comfortable while they watch their defense be no help to them winning the game. Makes sense.

[LZH]

Our offense came off the field every series. After we scored. I gives a rats [CENSORED] how fresh their offense is while its sitting on the sidelines. I say send some mai tais and some lawn chairs over there so they can be comfortable while they watch their defense be no help to them winning the game. Makes sense.

That's OK, it will occur to you in a little bit.

[Jon Ham]

That was one of the worst play calls I have ever seen.

[KennyForAD]

Balance. We need a threat of a pass and misdirection plays to make the power running game work.

Not Saturday, we didn't.   

[bphi11ips]

I don't understand why some fans want to see more passes just for the sake of seeing more passes.

Others don't understand why some fans think we can do what we did at Tech every week.  Bielema knows he will have to pass:

"That won't work this week."

We'll pass when we need to pass.