What people are missing about the botched reverse

[hogsanity]

Was it necessary at that point on the field or that point in the game?  NO. Just like the opening reverse against NSU was not necessary either, BUT look at all a defense now has to watch EVERY TIME Hatcher goes in motion.  So far we have run the speed sweep, the end around, the toss reverse, showed the attempted reverse after hand off, and also ran the play where he comes in motion, and sneaks into the flat off play action on a type of swing/screen pass.

If you watched many of our longer run plays, often they would motion Hatcher and draw the safety away from the point of attack, giving the offense one, maybe two more step before the safety got there in run support (not that he could tackle once he got there ).

[DeltaBoy]

Yep that how I saw it , Tech ran some sort of run Blitz and got some penetration and blew up the play.

[cbhawg03]

I would rather run the play with Marshall

[bphi11ips]

Good point.  Sometimes you need to show something other than bread and better to create space.  Same with vertical passing. 

[BRHogfan]

I would rather run the play with Marshall

I see your point, but running a play with someone like Keon Hatcher here is a way to attract the next Percey Harvin to Arkansas.  Besides Keon Hatcher is a down the field threat as well as a threat for the reverse.  If you put Marshall in the slot, the defense can gear up for it like it's the Wildcat, because we aren't using Marshall that way.

[Bacons Rebellion]

I would like to run it with Duwop.

I thought that the fleaflicker pass to Hatcher was a good call to keep Tech (and others) honest, even if it didn't work. It just said, "If you commit your safety the moment we hand off, we will burn you"

[Poker_hog]

Balance. We need a threat of a pass and misdirection plays to make the power running game work.

[Mike Irwin]

Some of our fans act like Chaney is some off the wall OC who dials up plays out of his butt.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing.

Most plays that fail are the result of poor execution. That doesn't make them bad plays or plays that were called at the wrong time.

I'm also SURE that a certain Hogville poster will find this thread shortly and take it over until he rides it into the ground.

[hogsanity]

I would like to run it with Duwop.

I thought that the fleaflicker pass to Hatcher was a good call to keep Tech (and others) honest, even if it didn't work. It just said, "If you commit your safety the moment we hand off, we will burn you"

Oh my gosh. WHY?  You have to run it with the players that are normally in the game. Bringing in a guy that has played all of about 7 plays, they might as well put up a sign that says " Hey, tricky play coming to the guy who never plays ".

[Mike Irwin]

Good point.  Sometimes you need to show something other than bread and better to create space.  Same with vertical passing.

Yes.

[hogsanity]

I'm also SURE that a certain Hogville poster will find this thread shortly and take it over until he rides it into the ground.

Only because he is allowed to do that to threads.

As for the play calls, TT even stopped a few of our run plays for little or no gain, were those bad play calls, or poorly executed?  Also, sometimes even a good play gets beat by a defender making a good play on his part. When you run 70+ plays a game, someone at some point is going to miss an assignment.

[Bacons Rebellion]

Oh my gosh. WHY?  You have to run it with the players that are normally in the game. Bringing in a guy that has played all of about 7 plays, they might as well put up a sign that says " Hey, tricky play coming to the guy who never plays ".

Well, yes, you'd need to have him in the game in certain personnel packages.

[texas tush hog]

Some of our fans act like Chaney is some off the wall OC who dials up plays out of his butt.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing.

Most plays that fail are the result of poor execution. That doesn't make them bad plays or plays that were called at the wrong time.

I'm also SURE that a certain Hogville poster will find this thread shortly and take it over until he rides it into the ground.

I know a lot of coaches around the country and they hold Chaney in the same regard they do Bielema. Now Pittman takes it to the next level, but Pittman and Chaney are like Forrest Gump says, "like peas and carrots".

[Poker_hog]

My only complaint about Chaney is he didn't call more passing plays against Nicholas state. Missed an opportunity to get inexperienced guys reps in game situations.  This used to drive me crazy with nut.

[PorkRinds]

I know a lot of coaches around the country and they hold Chaney in the same regard they do Bielema. Now Pittman takes it to the next level, but Pittman and Chaney are like Forrest Gump says, "like peas and carrots".

And what regard would that be?

[hogsanity]

My only complaint about Chaney is he didn't call more passing plays against Nicholas state. Missed an opportunity to get inexperienced guys reps in game situations.  This used to drive me crazy with nut.

HMM, lets see, up 73-7 against a team that could not stop anything you did, yes, lets let the backup Qb throw passes to receivers that probably wont be on the field for 2% of the plays all year.

OR are you suggesting he should have left BA in to throw more passes, TO ANYONE, considering he had 4 completions for 4 touchdowns.

[Mike Irwin]

Only because he is allowed to do that to threads.

As for the play calls, TT even stopped a few of our run plays for little or no gain, were those bad play calls, or poorly executed?  Also, sometimes even a good play gets beat by a defender making a good play on his part. When you run 70+ plays a game, someone at some point is going to miss an assignment.

That's another excellent point. Some fans have the second half of that game stuck in their minds. In the second half pretty much every run call worked. That was not the case in the first half.

I think Texas Tech is a pretty good offensive team with a really bad defense. Still those defensive guys were pumped up and played as hard as they could in the first half. They looked gassed in the second half.

Chaney called what, 10 passes in the first half and two in the second? Something like that.

The point is his play calling had to be more varied and creative in the first half because Tech was doing a better job of stopping the run.

[Mike Irwin]

I know a lot of coaches around the country and they hold Chaney in the same regard they do Bielema. Now Pittman takes it to the next level, but Pittman and Chaney are like Forrest Gump says, "like peas and carrots".

Educate me. Please name these coaches and explain how you came to know them.

[Poker_hog]

HMM, lets see, up 73-7 against a team that could not stop anything you did, yes, lets let the backup Qb throw passes to receivers that probably wont be on the field for 2% of the plays all year.

OR are you suggesting he should have left BA in to throw more passes, TO ANYONE, considering he had 4 completions for 4 touchdowns.

I'm saying BA should have thrown more than 5 passes.  I would have like to have seen several drives where we did nothing but pass.

Sooner or later somebody is gonna shut down the running game.  Then everything will hinge on BA and the wrs.

[alwaysnextyear]

It was a terrible call. No escaping that. I think Bielema likely told him to cut the crap after that.

[hogsanity]

That's another excellent point. Some fans have the second half of that game stuck in their minds. In the second half pretty much every run call worked. That was not the case in the first half.

I think Texas Tech is a pretty good offensive team with a really bad defense. Still those defensive guys were pumped up and played as hard as they could in the first half. They looked gassed in the second half.

Chaney called what, 10 passes in the first half and two in the second? Something like that.

The point is his play calling had to be more varied and creative in the first half because Tech was doing a better job of stopping the run.

TT defense looked exactly like most teams that run hunh snap it quick offenses do when they come up against a big physical OL with backs that can dish some punishment.  It is why Oregon struggles with Stanford so much.  Everything is fine until that defense is on the field for a 7+ minute drive, then your O goes 3 and out, and they are back out there for another 7+ minute drive. Even though it was 21-21, TT was already doomed after our 3rd td drive.

[JayBell]

There are legitimate concerns with Chaney.  He does tend to call trick plays at very odd times.  The reverse was unnecessary because the regular offense was working just fine.  That reverse/sweep play with Hatcher is so overused.  Teams know it is coming because Arkansas has been using that play for the last 15 games.  The one time Hatcher broke for a big play he fumbled at the end of it.

But how much better would Chaney look as an OC and what would Allen's stats look like if Hatcher catches the TD against Auburn, Morgan catches the TD against TT and Allen doesn't overthrow open receivers on two deep balls on Saturday?

[hogsanity]

I'm saying BA should have thrown more than 5 passes.  I would have like to have seen several drives where we did nothing but pass.

Sooner or later somebody is gonna shut down the running game.  Then everything will hinge on BA and the wrs.

When was he supposed to throw them?  HE WAS 4-5 WITH 4 TDS. Should they have told the receivers to fall down after the catch so they don't score so they could throw some more?

[AugustaHog]

I have no problem with calling that play, BUT as the OP said, location, location, location and timing.  The situation did not dictate us using a play with that many moving parts at that point in the game.  We were pounding it down their throats and were in position to at the very least get 3 and go to the half with the lead.  At that point in the game, it looked like this was going down to the wire and every point would be crucial.  I think its fair to call that "getting cute".  I think the play call itself is a great way to freeze defenders.  If they suck in on the inside run like Nicholls St., then Hatcher is out the backdoor for a big gain.  It can, and will, be effective for us because we have a really good athlete going in motion, we just have to execute better.

[hogsanity]

It was a terrible call. No escaping that. I think Bielema likely told him to cut the crap after that.

It was a good call, with poor execution or just a fantastic play by the TT player that hit Collins.

It's so funny, the same ones that think this was a horrible call are some of the same ones wanting some sort of "wildcat" package for Duwop.

[Fatty McGee]

It was a terrible call. No escaping that. I think Bielema likely told him to cut the crap after that.

I think fans make up things based on little knowledge up front and hindsight bias.

[Kevin]

Chaney said it was a bad call. He said should have just kept running downhill

[texas tush hog]

Educate me. Please name these coaches and explain how you came to know them.

I used to coach, and just stayed in touch, but don't intend to out myself or all their names.

[hawgtime]

Good point.  Sometimes you need to show something other than bread and better to create space.  Same with vertical passing. 

I don't want our hogs to be predicable. call something different. keep the defense guessing and knock the snot out of them.  why not?

[Hog Fan...DOH!]

I'm saying BA should have thrown more than 5 passes.  I would have like to have seen several drives where we did nothing but pass.

Sooner or later somebody is gonna shut down the running game.  Then everything will hinge on BA and the wrs.

BA executed a couple crucial 3rd down conversions to extend drives against Tech.  If he hits ONE of those bombs this discussion doesn't happen.   That being said, you can't miss sure-fire TD bombs against great teams.  See Auburn. 

[Poker_hog]

When was he supposed to throw them?  HE WAS 4-5 WITH 4 TDS. Should they have told the receivers to fall down after the catch so they don't score so they could throw some more?

We ran the ball like 50 times

[Poker_hog]

BA executed a couple crucial 3rd down conversions to extend drives against Tech.  If he hits ONE of those bombs this discussion doesn't happen.   That being said, you can't miss sure-fire TD bombs against great teams.  See Auburn. 

Not being critical of BA.  He's played really well so far.  Just saying we missed an opportunity to see if we have any young wrs that are gamers.

[jgphillips3]

On the reverse, sure some are calling it a stupid play.  However, I only hate it because of situation.  We were blowing them off the line straight ahead and in the red zone.  I'd much rather see that play out between the 30's.  That's my only issue with it.  When and where we utilized it.  Lord knows we need to give defenses things to think about so another place/another time and it's a great call.

[Mike Irwin]

I used to coach, but don't intend to out myself or all their names.

That's fine but don't demean another coach unless you are willing to explain how it is you came up with that information.

I could get on this board under a fake name and claim all sort of things. How is anyone supposed to know if it's accurate?

[PorkRinds]

I used to coach, and just stayed in touch, but don't intend to out myself or all their names.

OK, don't out them or you.  How do they feel about CBB and Chaney?

[ChitownHawg]

Educate me. Please name these coaches and explain how you came to know them.

Mike I think he was complimenting Chaney. Again we only disliked one play. Why let your emotions over one play get to the point you cannot see a compliment?

I promise this is the last comment on this subject, for this week  , as too many threads are popping up over one play.

[ChitownHawg]

That's fine but don't demean another coach unless you are willing to explain how it is you came up with that information.

I could get on this board under a fake name and claim all sort of things. How is anyone supposed to know if it's accurate?

Well I guess I misread him. My apologies and I will be absent for a bit as I go wipe egg off my face. 

[hogsanity]

We ran the ball like 50 times

SO? It was 56-0 at half time, and BA had 3 td passes in the 1st half on only 4 passes. Every time he threw the ball, they scored, how was he supposed to throw more.  More importantly, other than for your entertainment, WHY throw more?

[OneLardAlmighty]

It was a terrible call. No escaping that. I think Bielema likely told him to cut the crap after that.

Was the reverse Texas Tech ran earlier from about the same spot a terrible call? 

Or the reverse pass down near the goal line that Petrino used to beat Auburn in year 1?

Those plays were touchdowns.

[PorkRinds]

Mike I think he was complimenting Chaney. Again we only disliked one play. Why let your emotions over one play get to the point you cannot see a compliment?

I promise this is the last comment on this subject, for this week  , as too many threads are popping up over one play.

I really don't think he was.  That's why I asked him to clarify. 

[texas tush hog]

That's fine but don't demean another coach unless you are willing to explain how it is you came up with that information.

I could get on this board under a fake name and claim all sort of things. How is anyone supposed to know if it's accurate?

You need to go back and check my posts, I have been supportive of CBB and Chaney. Love them both ,how have I been demaning of anybody? Show me the posts. Thank you.

[alwaysnextyear]

It was a good call, with poor execution or just a fantastic play by the TT player that hit Collins.

It's so funny, the same ones that think this was a horrible call are some of the same ones wanting some sort of "wildcat" package for Duwop.

I've never said a word about Duwop ever seeing the field so not sure what that even means. It was a terrible call. Leave it at that.

[The_Iceman]

That's fine but don't demean another coach unless you are willing to explain how it is you came up with that information.

I could get on this board under a fake name and claim all sort of things. How is anyone supposed to know if it's accurate?

How do we know you are Mike Irwin....if that is your real name.

[hawgtime]

Not being critical of BA.  He's played really well so far.  Just saying we missed an opportunity to see if we have any young wrs that are gamers.

TRUE

[cosmodrum]

Some of our fans act like Chaney is some off the wall OC who dials up plays out of his butt.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing.

Most plays that fail are the result of poor execution. That doesn't make them bad plays or plays that were called at the wrong time.

I'm also SURE that a certain Hogville poster will find this thread shortly and take it over until he rides it into the ground.

Never miss a chance to belittle Hog fans.

[PonderinHog]

I really don't think he was.  That's why I asked him to clarify.

That's interesting.  It thought he was saying all three of our coaches were held in high regard by their coaching peers.

[PorkRinds]

That's interesting.  It thought he was saying all three of our coaches were held in high regard by their coaching peers.

I could be wrong, that's why I asked him to clarify.

[texas tush hog]

And what regard would that be?

High regard, thank you sheesh.

[Mike Irwin]

You need to go back and check my posts, I have been supportive of CBB and Chaney. Love them both ,how have I been demaning of anybody? Show me the posts. Thank you.

It wasn't clear if you were saying those coaches held Bielema and Chaney in high regard or low regard. There is so much negativity around here I assumed the negative.

If you were indeed saying those coaches hold Bielema and Chaney in high regard, then great and I apologize for making the wrong assumption.

[hawgtime]

 I want them to practice and hone both running and passing plays.