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Dare I say it, regarding the "Idiotic" reverse play call...

Started by Augustus, September 14, 2014, 01:03:23 am

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Pork Twain

Quote from: The Hogfather on September 15, 2014, 08:22:25 am
Unlikely.  The penetration came from a missed blocking assignment.  Had we called something less cute, we likely just blow off of the ball and they get less penetration.
You're right because missed blocking assignments never happen on runs or play-action.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

Who is our Coach?

"It was a wonderful drive until we got to my bone-headed reverse call.  Thank goodness Martrell [Spaight] saved our bacon there, got the interception back and we went down and scored quickly thereafter."

Jim Chaney, Ark-Dem Gaz, 9/15/2014

Was it a bad call at that time and in that field position?  Yes.  Did it end up mattering?  No.  Is it the end of the world?  No.

 

texas tush hog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on September 15, 2014, 08:47:21 am
I don't like it when coaches call out players or staff members on TV. You got a problem with something they did or didn't do? Take it up in private.

This is the second time Bielema has taken a shot at Chaney in front of the media (criticized his play calling in the second half of the Auburn game).

Second guessing is second guessing even when coaches do it.


Sometime you say things in the heat of the moment wbere you have really have not thought it through. That's one thing I hate about the little sideline halftime snippets. This team is getting there, maybe a little sooner than you think, and where will all the negative Nancy's be then. Patting you on the back saying I was behind you all along.

Mike Irwin

Quote from: Who is our Coach? on September 15, 2014, 08:57:04 am
"It was a wonderful drive until we got to my bone-headed reverse call.  Thank goodness Martrell [Spaight] saved our bacon there, got the interception back and we went down and scored quickly thereafter."

Jim Chaney, Ark-Dem Gaz, 9/15/2014

Was it a bad call at that time and in that field position?  Yes.  Did it end up mattering?  No.  Is it the end of the world?  No.
All good coaches take the blame when a decision they make blows up. That still doesn't make it a bad decision.

If the play is executed properly it works and nobody is talking about this.

texas tush hog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on September 15, 2014, 09:08:15 am
All good coaches take the blame when a decision they make blows up. That still doesn't make it a bad decision.

If the play is executed properly it works and nobody is talking about this.

That comment by Chaney, is exactly why I support him 110%. Maybe if some of the HV posters were half the man Chaney is, they would own their mistakes.

Science Fiction Greg

Quote from: Mike Irwin on September 15, 2014, 09:08:15 am
All good coaches take the blame when a decision they make blows up. That still doesn't make it a bad decision.

If the play is executed properly it works and nobody is talking about this.

Honestly, it seems weird that you are still defending this call.  It was terrible.  I'm a big Chaney fan, too.  Have no problem with him making the occasional mistake.  Everyone does.  We all know it was, he admits it was, it is pretty demonstrably contrary to the gameplan.  I just don't get it.  Why not just admit it was a mistake?  It doesn't matter if fewer people would care had it been successful.  Fewer people care about mistakes when they happen to work out in poker, but they are still mistakes, and people that care about eliminating mistakes pay attention to them so they can improve themselves.
I spend all my time playing Trackmania, and various board games. You might remember me as Corndog7 or PossibleOatmeal.
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The Hogfather

Quote from: Possible Oatmeal on September 15, 2014, 09:16:16 am
Honestly, it seems weird that you are still defending this call.  It was terrible.  I'm a big Chaney fan, too.  Have no problem with him making the occasional mistake.  Everyone does.  We all know it was, he admits it was, it is pretty demonstrably contrary to the gameplan.  I just don't get it.  Why not just admit it was a mistake?  It doesn't matter if fewer people would care had it been successful.  Fewer people care about mistakes when they happen to work out in poker, but they are still mistakes, and people that care about eliminating mistakes pay attention to them so they can improve themselves.

Exactly.  Well said.

Mike Irwin

Quote from: Possible Oatmeal on September 15, 2014, 09:16:16 am
Honestly, it seems weird that you are still defending this call.  It was terrible.  I'm a big Chaney fan, too.  Have no problem with him making the occasional mistake.  Everyone does.  We all know it was, he admits it was, it is pretty demonstrably contrary to the gameplan.  I just don't get it.  Why not just admit it was a mistake?  It doesn't matter if fewer people would care had it been successful.  Fewer people care about mistakes when they happen to work out in poker, but they are still mistakes, and people that care about eliminating mistakes pay attention to them so they can improve themselves.
It's simple. What coaches say in public and private are often two different things.
I'm sure Chaney wishes he had the call back. That's called hindsight.

I'm not so sure that he wouldn't do the same thing again in a similar situation down the road. He has that play in the book for a reason. They practiced it for a reason. I don't think  that a guy like Jim Chaney, who was has been calling plays for a couple of decades, suddenly goes ape and dials up an off the wall play.

He's taking the blame for the fact that it didn't work as he should. Again, that doesn't mean that it was the wrong thing to do.

ChitownHawg

Quote from: texas tush hog on September 15, 2014, 08:59:55 am
Sometime you say things in the heat of the moment wbere you have really have not thought it through. That's one thing I hate about the little sideline halftime snippets. This team is getting there, maybe a little sooner than you think, and where will all the negative Nancy's be then. Patting you on the back saying I was behind you all along.

First off I have a history of supporting CBB, the team, and his coaches. The fact some of us don't like a certain play doesn't make us a negative nancy.

It has been repeated frequently in this thread no one is calling for Chaney's head, we are happy we won, and still support Chaney.

We simply didn't like that call and felt it was unecessary. I am sorry that some of us disagreeing about one call has upset you to the point where you feel you have to give a hyperbolic name calling post.

But then I am a negative nancy after all.  ;D
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

Steef

Quote from: Mike Irwin on September 15, 2014, 09:08:15 am
All good coaches take the blame when a decision they make blows up. That still doesn't make it a bad decision.

If the play is executed properly it works and nobody is talking about this.

Sir Oinksalot

...not sure if the dub.rev was a good call or not, but that drive there was a very interesting game of cat and mouse...
we started gnashing them for 6-10 yards, they put 11 within 10 yards of the ball and they start slowing us...
then haha we throw - remember the trip of Hatcher at the goal line, could easily have been a TD, BA scrambled
finds JWill for a tip toe first, TT then drops back into lb. U, then the nice pass to Collins on the sideline, the layout of (?) in
the EZ just off the fingertips......on the busted dub.rev. it looked like our wham play but the left pulling guard missed
the nose man Smothers let thru......then our D makes a great stand finishing with Speights int.

Just the moves-countermoves of that drive alone was fascinating...

Be ye therefore like the grasses and yield
to the inevitable forces of Nature,
and in so yielding survive...

Hawgzinbowlz


Good call, with poor execution.

I hope we learn from it and play a little tighter the next time.

" GO HOGS "

Who is our Coach?

I like Chaney.  But it's a fair observation or criticism to say that he sometimes gets impatient.  I have no problem with trick plays, misdirection, or catching the defense napping.  I had no problem with the flea flicker.  It was early in the game, both teams were settling in, and we were trying to make a big play and also get them off the line of scrimmage.  If it falls incomplete, fine.  Line up for the next play.  If it's intercepted, fine.  It would've been like a 45 yard punt. 

But the reverse happened after the game had settled in and it was abundantly clear they couldn't stop our power running game.  It first and 10 at our 12 yard line with less than 3:00 left in the half.  If we punch it in there, melting the clock to halftime in the process, we go in up a touchdown and we get the ball back to start the second half.  A two score lead there, and Tech is in trouble.  Now, it ended up not mattering because Spaight made a play and the result was the same.  But even Chaney admitted it was a bad call.  It's not a mortal sin, but it's OK to wonder what the heck was going through his mind. 

I have to think across the State of Arkansas, an exclamation of "What the HELL are we doing??!?!?!?" was more common than 'Great play call!"

 

LZH

I'll just say this, if every call doesn't run by Bielema then why does he wear those headphones (and quite comically I might add)?  Fwiw, I took his comment as somewhat self-incriminating.  He said "we".  But frankly, I've had to move past this kind of stuff since he got here.

This guy is ya'll's hero: he's constantly been running his mouth for almost two years and all of a sudden this is a surprise?  A comment like that should be just par for the course.  Now maybe some folks will understand why it's taken me this long to just ignore BB's word vomit and watch the games.

PonderinHog

Quote from: texas tush hog on September 15, 2014, 09:15:07 am
That comment by Chaney, is exactly why I support him 110%. Maybe if some of the HV posters were half the man Chaney is, they would own their mistakes.
If something goes wrong, I did it.  Sounds familiar for some reason.

Sir Oinksalot



...Haha, you haven't known very many guys from the north eh Zep ?
Be ye therefore like the grasses and yield
to the inevitable forces of Nature,
and in so yielding survive...

Hogfaniam

Quote from: LZH on September 15, 2014, 10:39:15 am
I'll just say this, if every call doesn't run by Bielema then why does he wear those headphones (and quite comically I might add)?  Fwiw, I took his comment as somewhat self-incriminating.  He said "we".  But frankly, I've had to move past this kind of stuff since he got here.

This guy is ya'll's hero: he's constantly been running his mouth for almost two years and all of a sudden this is a surprise?  A comment like that should be just par for the course.  Now maybe some folks will understand why it's taken me this long to just ignore BB's word vomit and watch the games.

Who is LZH?  8)
"My dog Sam eats purple flowers"

LZH

Quote from: Sir Oinksalot on September 15, 2014, 10:42:11 am
...Haha, you haven't know too many guys from the north eh Zep ?

Quite a few, actually - especially from the Northeast.  Many of them absolutely loooooove to hear themselves speak.  But BB is no intellectual threat, so everything he says comes off as a junior varsity version of Les Miles.

I'm over it.  I still call it a spade because that's what it is.  But I've spent over a year wishing this guy would just think more before he talks.....it isn't gonna happen.  This is what we have.  Period.  From here on out whenever he says anything, I'll just duck my head so it will just fly right by me.

LZH

I forgot to say that I didn't like the call either, but I've never gotten bent out of whack on playcalling.....even with Nutt believe it or not.  It's their team, they watch hours of film, they know their players, and they know what they're looking for.  So I'm all for calling whatever you think will help us win.

OK, that's it.

Science Fiction Greg

Chaney is not only a great coach and play-caller, but a stand up guy.  I'm thrilled we have him.
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Pigstie

Quote from: Mike Irwin on September 15, 2014, 07:46:54 am
Coaches can become second guessers just like fans. Second guessers are always right because they know the outcome. Guys like Chaney have to made the call before they know the outcome. They're the first guessers.

Just once I'd like to put some of you experts up in the booth and let you take a crack at it.
Exactly! Gotta love HV. The epitome of the armchair qb.
The views and opinions of this poster are personal only, and are not one of a professional coach or X Box player.  Beware the Mall Cop.

Pigstie

Quote from: rude1 on September 15, 2014, 11:41:56 am
Really Mike? You are now going to argue the point against the man who made the call? I think your like for the guy is obviously clouding  your objectivity. Is there any possibility in hindsight he recognizes that wasn't the proper time for that call?
Chaney was simply doing something call "Class".  The play wasn't executed properly. Simple as that. He's just not going to leave a player under the bus over it. He's gonna deflect, take the responsibility and move on..... unlike a past coach.
The views and opinions of this poster are personal only, and are not one of a professional coach or X Box player.  Beware the Mall Cop.

1960'sHogFan

I liked the call Saturday.

I like the call TODAY.

I Will Like the Call in the FUTURE !

Get the defense looking and thinking from side to side. It MIGHT help Run the Ball down their THROATS.

Pork Twain

I am never a fan of trick plays, unless they work and then I love them.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

 

Pigstie

The views and opinions of this poster are personal only, and are not one of a professional coach or X Box player.  Beware the Mall Cop.

HogRedTilImDead

I have zero problem with the call. It didn't work, they went to something else.  Overall it did little to impact the game. One play does not make or break a game of football. Just like people jumping on here to complain about that play does not make them a coach.
GO HOGS!!

HogShat

If The play works, no one would say a word. MOTHOHDN once called a halfback pass on 4th and 1 to Petrus I think, or some other converted OL, when he had McFadden, Jones and Hillis at his disposal. It didnt work and I still think it was an idiot call. Had it worked, he's a genius... Well, maybe not a genius...

ChitownHawg

Quote from: Pigstie on September 15, 2014, 12:22:28 pm
Exactly! Gotta love HV. The epitome of the armchair qb.

Mine is a leather Lazyboy. What's yours?  ;)
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

Mike Irwin

Quote from: rude1 on September 15, 2014, 11:41:56 am
Really Mike? You are now going to argue the point against the man who made the call? I think your like for the guy is obviously clouding  your objectivity. Is there any possibility in hindsight he recognizes that wasn't the proper time for that call?
No. Like I've already said good coaches call themselves out when a decision doesn't work. That doesn't mean that he actually believes it was a dumb call to make.

Some of you apparently have amnesia with regard to the first half. Tech's defense stopped several running plays. It is false to say the ground game was working perfectly. Chaney varied his play calling a lot more in the first half and I have no problem with him dialing up that double reverse.


LZH

Has anyone not noticed how good my mood is when we win?

wholehog92

Not saying you should never call a reverse.  There are times it's a good call.  When you are outmatched on the line and need a step for your line to get an advantage.  When you have problems with the defense running you down from the backside.  With most things in life, the bigger the reward potential, the bigger the risk.

Everyone in that stadium and watching on TV fully expected AR to power their way right into that end zone 5 or 8 yards a play including the TT defense.  There was nothing that had stopped us from doing exactly that the whole game before and after that call.  I do not see any advantage to running the reverse under those circumstances.  The risk was there weather it worked or not.  There was no reason to take that risk.  As coach said, no reason to get cute.
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