Dare I say it, regarding the "Idiotic" reverse play call...

[ChitownHawg]

So Chaney should never call a double reverse again because somebody might miss a block?

Reminds me of the logic of those claiming Brandon Allen should never run the ball because he might get hurt again.

Nope never said that. Sorry.

[1960'sHogFan]

Reminds me of 1969, we should never throw a pass again?

[Mike Irwin]

Nope never said that. Sorry.

Not referring specifically to a single poster but to the overall tone of the thread.
Some of you people are so wound up you can't even enjoy a nice road win.

Those guys went to Lubbock in front of a pumped up near sellout crowd and totally embarrassed a Big 12 opponent that thought it was going blow the Hogs into the weeds.

It's the first time this program has gotten some truly positive national exposure since the 2011 season.

Soak it in.

[Steef]

Thank you.

[Nosboar Accubond]

Not referring specifically to a single poster but to the overall tone of the thread.
Some of you people are so wound up you can't even enjoy a nice road win.

Those guys went to Lubbock in front of a pumped up near sellout crowd and totally embarrassed a Big 12 opponent that thought it was going blow the Hogs into the weeds.

It's the first time this program has gotten some truly positive national exposure since the 2011 season.

Soak it in.

This goes both ways Mike. I was thrilled yesterday. I posted on here asking if it seemed like the play calling was different... no bashing - only stated it felt like CBB may have influenced the calling more than usual. Next think you know I'm accused of wanting Chaney fired, whining, moaning, blah blah blah. So since we had such a positive moment Saturday are we not allowed to evaluate anything?

[Science Fiction Greg]

Not referring specifically to a single poster but to the overall tone of the thread.
Some of you people are so wound up you can't even enjoy a nice road win.

Those guys went to Lubbock in front of a pumped up near sellout crowd and totally embarrassed a Big 12 opponent that thought it was going blow the Hogs into the weeds.

It's the first time this program has gotten some truly positive national exposure since the 2011 season.

Soak it in.

I enjoyed the win immensely.  I'm not terribly upset at the call, but it deserved criticism.  I think the only reason people appear more upset about it than they really are is people telling them they shouldn't even mention it or are wrong about it.  It was just a bad call in the middle of an outstanding game.  No big deal.  It happens.  Coaches aren't infallible.

[1960'sHogFan]

Calling a play to take advantage of a fast pursuing defense is not always a bad call. Maybe bad timing, I think not. Sure the result was not good.

Sometimes you have to get in the heads of opposing players and coaches. We will need a few reverses.

[SamBuckhart]

No problem for me. Sometimes your try something and doesn't work.

Maybe try it again with different results?

[HiggiePiggy]

So Chaney should never call a double reverse again because somebody might miss a block?

Reminds me of the logic of those claiming Brandon Allen should never run the ball because he might get hurt again.

No one is saying he should never call the play again.  Everyone. Even the head coach and announcers were questioning the call because it was in the red zone and we had been running all over them.  Like the announcer said why get cute when you are running them over.   

[HiggiePiggy]

Calling a play to take advantage of a fast pursuing defense is not always a bad call. Maybe bad timing, I think not. Sure the result was not good.

Sometimes you have to get in the heads of opposing players and coaches. We will need a few reverses.

Sorry, but when you are running it down the throats of someone, you are already in their heads because they can't do anything to stop it. 

They are happier when you try something new because then they might get a chance.  That is what we did and it caused a fumble and gave them a chance.  They blew that chance, and we went back to what was working and what happen they couldn't do anything about it like before.   

That is getting into someone's head. Knowing you can't do a damn thing about what is coming and even knowing exactly what is coming. 

[ChitownHawg]

This goes both ways Mike. I was thrilled yesterday. I posted on here asking if it seemed like the play calling was different... no bashing - only stated it felt like CBB may have influenced the calling more than usual. Next think you know I'm accused of wanting Chaney fired, whining, moaning, blah blah blah. So since we had such a positive moment Saturday are we not allowed to evaluate anything?

Agreed. I guess CBB should stop telling the sideline reporter he didn't like it and he should just enjoy the win.

Do we have to all be walking zombies? Sorry just watched Z Nation! 

[Mike Irwin]

I enjoyed the win immensely.  I'm not terribly upset at the call, but it deserved criticism.  I think the only reason people appear more upset about it than they really are is people telling them they shouldn't even mention it or are wrong about it.  It was just a bad call in the middle of an outstanding game.  No big deal.  It happens.  Coaches aren't infallible.

Okay, I'll play that game.

I thought it was a good call. It failed because it wasn't executed properly not because it was a bad call. They may need that play in the future. I'm glad Chaney called it. They can now go back and look at it and see what went wrong. Get it right the next time and there will be a next time.

[The Hogfather]

Okay, I'll play that game.

I thought it was a good call. It failed because it wasn't executed properly not because it was a bad call. They may need that play in the future. I'm glad Chaney called it. They can now go back and look at it and see what went wrong. Get it right the next time and there will be a next time.

Bielema didn't think it was a good call.  Glad to have him on my side.  That's all that really matters.

[Mike Irwin]

No one is saying he should never call the play again.  Everyone. Even the head coach and announcers were questioning the call because it was in the red zone and we had been running all over them.  Like the announcer said why get cute when you are running them over.

And what do you think Bielema would have said if it had worked? Chaney didn't pull that play out of his butt. They worked on it in practice. A lot. Bielema watched them work on it.

There will come a time when they need that play. Most OC's I've talked with want to try a play like that in a game when they can afford for it not to succeed.

Somebody posted in this thread that that play cost them. No it didn't. It had no bearing on the outcome.

There will come a time, though, when it might affect the outcome of a game if they blow that play like they did on Saturday. So learn from it. Get it right the next time.

[The Hogfather]

And what do you think Bielema would have said if it had worked? Chaney didn't pull that play out of his butt. They worked on it in practice. A lot. Bielema watched them work on it.

I like the play (if executed properly).  I don't like the timing of the play call.  Bielema didn't like the timing of the play call.  There was no need to call a play like that when we were averaging over 6 yards a carry running it down their throats.

The most important aspect of calling plays is timing.

[Mike Irwin]

Bielema didn't think it was a good call.  Glad to have him on my side.  That's all that really matters.

Coaches can become second guessers just like fans. Second guessers are always right because they know the outcome. Guys like Chaney have to made the call before they know the outcome. They're the first guessers.

Just once I'd like to put some of you experts up in the booth and let you take a crack at it.

[The Hogfather]

Most OC's I've talked with want to try a play like that in a game when they can afford for it not to succeed.

The score was 21-21 at that point.  There was no way Chaney could know that this was a "game when they can afford for it not to succeed".

[LZH]

Just once I'd like to put some of you experts up in the booth and let you take a crack at it.

I would be amazing.

[The Hogfather]

Coaches can become second guessers just like fans. Second guessers are always right because they know the outcome. Guys like Chaney have to made the call before they know the outcome. They're the first guessers.

Just once I'd like to put some of you experts up in the booth and let you take a crack at it.

I might get a lot of calls wrong, but that wouldn't be one of them.  They hadn't shown they could stop our run, even when committing extra guys to it.  We had moved the ball right down the field by running it down their throats.  No reason to get cute, as Bielema said going into the locker room at half.

[Mike Irwin]

I like the play (if executed properly).  I don't like the timing of the play call.  Bielema didn't like the timing of the play call.  There was no need to call a play like that when we were averaging over 6 yards a carry running it down their throats.

The most important aspect of calling plays is timing.

If that play had worked you would be singing a different tune. The surprise element would be obvious. Wow, nobody expected that.

Like I said, the execution was bad.

[The Hogfather]

I would be amazing.

Same here.  We'd score 100 every game.

[three hog night]

And what do you think Bielema would have said if it had worked? Chaney didn't pull that play out of his butt. They worked on it in practice. A lot. Bielema watched them work on it.

There will come a time when they need that play. Most OC's I've talked with want to try a play like that in a game when they can afford for it not to succeed.

Somebody posted in this thread that that play cost them. No it didn't. It had no bearing on the outcome.

There will come a time, though, when it might affect the outcome of a game if they blow that play like they did on Saturday. So learn from it. Get it right the next time.

I think the defensive stunt plays by TT were way too aggressive and were causing a FEW problems at the time.   A reverse was needed to slow them down and make them think/slow down.  It looked like the play would have been a TD if the TT guy had not blown up our blocking assignment.

[The Hogfather]

If that play had worked you would be singing a different tune. The surprise element would be obvious. Wow, nobody expected that.

Like I said, the execution was bad.

No, I wouldn't be singing another tune.  We probably wouldn't be talking about it, but if someone asked me, I'd say I prefer we don't get cute in that situation.

We know the execution was bad.  That's not the issue with a lot of us.  The issue is the timing of the call, with what we had been doing successfully up to that point.  There was no need to "surprise them" at that point.

[Mike Irwin]

The score was 21-21 at that point.  There was no way Cheney could know that this was a "game when they can afford for it not to succeed".

I was referring to a 4th quarter situation where an important conference game is on the line. If it doesn't work there's no recovering from it.

[Mike Irwin]

No, I wouldn't be singing another tune.  We probably wouldn't be talking about it, but if someone asked me, I'd say I prefer we don't get cute in that situation.

We know the execution was bad.  That's not the issue with a lot of us.  The issue is the timing of the call, with what we had been doing successfully up to that point.  There was no need to "surprise them" at that point.

Great you know the proper timing of play calling and Chaney doesn't. Apply for his job. Since Bielema is on you side maybe he'll hire you.

[LZH]

Same here.  We'd score 100 every game.

I can honestly say that I have never, ever called a bad play in my life.....ever.  Neither in college or the pros.  Not one.

[The Hogfather]

Great you know the proper timing of play calling and Chaney doesn't. Apply for his job. Since Bielema is on you side maybe he'll hire you.

Stop with this childish argument.  I'm not saying I should be OC.  I'm not saying I'm better than Chaney.  I'm not saying I could call a better overall game than Chaney.  I know Bielema wouldn't hire me.  I am not going to apply to be OC.

Chaney got one wrong.  Bielema agrees and I'm glad.

[ChitownHawg]

I think the defensive stunt plays by TT were way too aggressive and were causing a FEW problems at the time.   A reverse was needed to slow them down and make them think/slow down.  It looked like the play would have been a TD if the TT guy had not blown up our blocking assignment.

As I said to you before the box stats show something entirely different than you are stating.

[three hog night]

As I said to you before the box stats show something entirely different than you are stating.

The box score does not show the disruption from penetration they were getting.  Go back and watch 5-7 plays before this to see they were stunting hard.

[ChitownHawg]

No, I wouldn't be singing another tune.  We probably wouldn't be talking about it, but if someone asked me, I'd say I prefer we don't get cute in that situation.

We know the execution was bad.  That's not the issue with a lot of us.  The issue is the timing of the call, with what we had been doing successfully up to that point.  There was no need to "surprise them" at that point.

I get it that people want to argue against your point, but they are also arguing against the head coach. We are challenged to be in the booth which totally ignores the head coach didn't like the call. I think CBB trumps all of us as far as experience goes. After all he is the one person who gets paid for this.

I am sorry a lifetime reporter has a gazillion times more knowledge of the game than me, but to make that statement when the head coach didn't like the call is totally baffling. I love ya Mike and respect ya, but the argument falls short when CBB didn't like it.

Now let's enjoy the win by soaking it in and place our collective geniuses on how bad will we beat NIU. 

[The Hogfather]

The box score does not show the disruption from penetration they were getting.  Go back and watch 5-7 plays before this to see they were stunting hard.

Yes, the last couple of plays before that, they had some decent success stopping the run.  That doesn't mean you have to get cute there.  There are other ways to beat stunts.  You don't have to get cute.

[ChitownHawg]

Great you know the proper timing of play calling and Chaney doesn't. Apply for his job. Since Bielema is on you side maybe he'll hire you.

Weak argument.

[Hogfaniam]

At that spot on the field, if you are going to do it, a direct hand off from Brandon may have been more advised.

[ChitownHawg]

I can honestly say that I have never, ever called a bad play in my life.....ever.  Neither in college or the pros.  Not one.

I have only one blemish on my record but it was as a GM. When Jerry hired Switzer I thought it was pure genius. However to my credit I did learn from this incident. I now simply ignore any such blemish. 

[three hog night]

Yes, the last couple of plays before that, they had some decent success stopping the run.  That doesn't mean you have to get cute there.  There are other ways to beat stunts.  You don't have to get cute.

Misdirection is the typical way to slow down stunts.

[Go hogs go]

I'm a lot less upset with the reverse. Than I am with us throwing deep, don't get me wrong there are times it's gonna be needed. When your playing HUNH your goal should be to control the clock and keep them off the field. We did it too perfection in the 2nd half, and with out improving but weak secondary that's how you stop the HUNH. When we play traditional offenses the need to stretch will be there. I think Chaney for the most part called a great game, but We just differ on the bad calls of the game. Lol go hogs go

[Mike Irwin]

Stop with this childish argument.  I'm not saying I should be OC.  I'm not saying I'm better than Cheney.  I'm not saying I could call a better overall game than Cheney.  I know Bielema wouldn't hire me.  I am not going to apply to be OC.

Cheney got one wrong.  Bielema agrees and I'm glad.

In the interest of disclosure I will admit that I'm a huge Jim Chaney fan. Unlike many on this board I think the man is doing a very good job.

I cannot help but notice how most of those same people think Sam Pittman is indispensable.

Guess what? Pittman rejected Alabama because he preferred to continue to work with Chaney. Yeah, he got a big raise but I know for a fact that it was his relationship with Chaney that kept him here.

Also second guessers irritate the fool out of me. I've caught myself many times over the years doing the same thing. I'm always embarrassed when I realize it.

If Chaney had a pattern of calling risky plays when they weren't necessary some of you might have a point.

As for Bielema, maybe he needs to recall a couple of the bonehead tricks he dialed up last year before he calls out Chaney on TV.

[The Hogfather]

In the interest of disclosure I will admit that I'm a huge Jim Chaney fan.

So am I.

[The Hogfather]

As for Bielema, maybe he needs to recall a couple of the bonehead tricks he dialed up last year before he calls out Chaney on TV.

I'm sure he realizes those were bad calls, just as he realized this was a bad call from Chaney.

[ChitownHawg]

In the interest of disclosure I will admit that I'm a huge Jim Chaney fan. Unlike many on this board I think the man is doing a very good job.

I cannot help but notice how most of those same people think Sam Pittman is indispensable.

Guess what? Pittman rejected Alabama because he preferred to continue to work with Chaney. Yeah, he got a big raise but I know for a fact that it was his relationship with Chaney that kept him here.

Also second guessers irritate the fool out of me. I've caught myself many times over the years doing the same thing. I'm always embarrassed when I realize it.

If Chaney had a pattern of calling risky plays when they weren't necessary some of you might have a point.

As for Bielema, maybe he needs to recall a couple of the bonehead tricks he dialed up last year before he calls out Chaney on TV.

Mike, your emotions seem to be rising which was not my purpose of my counter arguments. For this I apologize and will at this time simply have to agree not to agree. I am more than ready to sing praises of CJC when he dials in a masterful game against a team we are suppose to lose to. I think that day may come this year.

[Pork Twain]

Dare I say that with the penetration they had on that play, it would have been for a loss no matter what we attempted to execute.

[LZH]

I have only one blemish on my record but it was as a GM. When Jerry hired Switzer I thought it was pure genius. However to my credit I did learn from this incident. I now simply ignore any such blemish. 

Well there's your problem right there - Jerry/Switzer.  What a career killer.

Right after they beg me to come to Fayetteville and call plays, I'll put in a good word for you.

[The Hogfather]

Mike, your emotions seem to be rising which was not my purpose of my counter arguments. For this I apologize and will at this time simply have to agree not to agree. I am more than ready to sing praises of CJC when he dials in a masterful game against a team we are suppose to lose to. I think that day may come this year.

I feel the same way.  I like Chaney and I'm glad he and Pittman are at Arkansas.  That doesn't mean that he is mistake-free and above criticism.

[Pork Twain]

Mike, your emotions seem to be rising which was not my purpose of my counter arguments. For this I apologize and will at this time simply have to agree not to agree. I am more than ready to sing praises of CJC when he dials in a masterful game against a team we are suppose to lose to. I think that day may come this year.

We were supposed to lose to TT, but we dominated them.  Does that not count?

[ChitownHawg]

Well there's your problem right there - Jerry/Switzer.  What a career killer.

Right after they beg me to come to Fayetteville and call plays, I'll put in a good word for you.

I am not sure why this image popped into my head.

[Hogfaniam]

Dare I say that with the penetration they had on that play, it would have been for a loss no matter what we attempted to execute.

I would have to go back and look at it again, but I think Alex would have picked him up.

[The Hogfather]

Dare I say that with the penetration they had on that play, it would have been for a loss no matter what we attempted to execute.

Unlikely.  The penetration came from a missed blocking assignment.  Had we called something less cute, we likely just blow off of the ball and they get less penetration.

[HouSwine]

LOL
I think CBB is playing a little tighter this year. I don't expect as many fake punts, trick plays, etc.

" GO HOGS "

This

[texas tush hog]

That's not the point. It was an unneeded unnecessary risk that was taken and we paid for it. There's absolutely no justification for getting cute like that when slamming the A gap is a sure 5 yards per carry. It was corrected in the 2nd half and there was absolutely no cutesy stuff which made me very happy.

Like you, I could not understand why Chaney called that play, but was his overall game plan outstanding, yes. I support Chaney, and have all along. I will take an occasional  blip on the radar. That play, although a disaster, will cause DC's in the future to be concerned that he will not be plain vanilla. Keon Hatcher and Demetrious Wilson have blown some big plays but they have also made some outstanding plays. Gotta take the good with the bad. Have you ever sat in a staff meeting after a bonehead play waiting on your head to roll for a bonehead call? I have, and sometimes the obvious butt chewing never comes, but you never forget you did it and you will think twice about the disaster. Get off Chaney's back, he is okay. If not, Bielema can chew on his butt, that's what he gets paid the big bucks for.

[Mike Irwin]

I don't like it when coaches call out players or staff members on TV. You got a problem with something they did or didn't do? Take it up in private.

This is the second time Bielema has taken a shot at Chaney in front of the media (criticized his play calling in the second half of the Auburn game).

Second guessing is second guessing even when coaches do it.