Conditioning

[Grunt]

Back in the late fifties and early to mid sixties, we were small but extremely competitive. Emphasis was on conditioning and Frank's players would out-condition you in the fourth. They would be just as salty in the fourth as in the first and I believe we won a lot of games by being in shape. I wonder if we are as fourth-quarter-ready as in those days. I think we should heat up that indoor facility to about 105 degrees and drill drill drill until we're used to it. "They'd be putting their hands on their hips and we knew we had them." -Forgot who said it.

[PorkRinds]

Back in the late fifties and early to mid sixties, we were small but extremely competitive. Emphasis was on conditioning and Frank's players would out-condition you in the fourth. They would be just as salty in the fourth as in the first and I believe we won a lot of games by being in shape. I wonder if we are as fourth-quarter-ready as in those days. I think we should heat up that indoor facility to about 105 degrees and drill drill drill until we're used to it. "They'd be putting their hands on their hips and we knew we had them." -Forgot who said it.

I think the current, and better, strategy is to have the depth to keep big nasty dudes fresh for all four quarters. 

[Hoggie17]

Back in the late fifties and early to mid sixties, we were small but extremely competitive. Emphasis was on conditioning and Frank's players would out-condition you in the fourth. They would be just as salty in the fourth as in the first and I believe we won a lot of games by being in shape. I wonder if we are as fourth-quarter-ready as in those days. I think we should heat up that indoor facility to about 105 degrees and drill drill drill until we're used to it. "They'd be putting their hands on their hips and we knew we had them." -Forgot who said it.

Yeah, going into the 4th quarter players would hold up 4 fingers  meaning this is our quarter.

[incHOGnito]

I was not around back then, but from I have heard, the NCAA did not regulate the practice time, conditions, etc... as much back then, making it easier to fit in a heavy dose of conditioning during fall camp and the season.  Nowadays they are so constrained in terms of practice time, that they can't spend as much time on conditioning and have to rely on the players to keep themselves in shape to a large extent.

[ShadowTheHedgehog]

Yeah, going into the 4th quarter players would hold up 4 fingers  meaning this is our quarter.

Players on every team still do that today.

[Hoggish1]

I think the current, and better, strategy is to have the depth to keep big nasty dudes fresh for all four quarters. 

[DukeOfPork]

Yeah, going into the 4th quarter players would hold up 4 fingers  meaning this is our quarter.

We have as much claim to that tradition as we do to the Gary Glitter song and the first down chant.

Back in the late fifties and early to mid sixties, we were small but extremely competitive. Emphasis was on conditioning and Frank's players would out-condition you in the fourth. They would be just as salty in the fourth as in the first and I believe we won a lot of games by being in shape. I wonder if we are as fourth-quarter-ready as in those days. I think we should heat up that indoor facility to about 105 degrees and drill drill drill until we're used to it. "They'd be putting their hands on their hips and we knew we had them." -Forgot who said it.

This isn't the 50s nor the 60s.  If you don't have players that are athletically superior to your opponent, then the only way you are going to win is if they just aren't taking care of business.

[thirrdegreetusker]

On that same general note, yesterday they were saying Dez Bryant was cramping, dehydrated, etc. In this day and age, with superior nutrition, hydration, and electrolyte replenishment, how can that possibly happen to a well-conditioned athlete?

Have we gotten to the point where there is so much emphasis on strength training, that cardio fitness is a thing of the past? I mean, there were USC tailbacks that carried 50 times a game in the 70s. Surely today's athletes are capable of equaling that, given the right training and nutrition.   

[3Scoreand10]

Some may not remember, but in the 50's and 60's there were sustitution limets.
Most players had to play offence and defence.
I can remember playing every down in some of my HS games.
Conditioning was much more important than size and sometimes talent.

[hawgXi]

tell me that they're not dead fit after coach herb runs um up cleveland street hill and up to top of mt sequoia.

personally, I think the rain delay at auburn helped them a lot more than us.

[clutch]

Some may not remember, but in the 50's and 60's there were sustitution limets.
Most players had to play offence and defence.
I can remember playing every down in some of my HS games.
Conditioning was much more important than size and sometimes talent.

That settles it. Let's get a bunch of Kenyans and we will win a NC. Who won the Boston Marathon this year? He have any eligibility left?

The games changed old timers. You win with either superior athletes or comparable athletes and great coaching. Endurance is good and all, but strength and depth is far more important.

[twistitup]

I think the current, and better, strategy is to have the depth to keep big nasty dudes fresh for all four quarters. 

What other teams use this strategy with their OL?

Or is this an uncommon strategy?

[Piggfoot]

Im 68 and I still remember no TV, no AC. Just a window fan that sucked 85-90 degree air in at night. Sleeping without sheets with a wet towel to wipe off. I cant remember anyone having a heat stroke. Our coaches were so ill informed they withheld water during practice. We were accustomed to the heat and played both ways.
Now when I walk 18 I drink 16oz of water at least every 3 holes. My goal is to pee at least three times during the round. For you wise guys i dont have BPH.

I think there is some merit in not staying in as much AC as we do and at least sleeping at 85 with a fan at night. 

[pigtrino]

Im 68 and I still remember no TV, no AC. Just a window fan that sucked 85-90 degree air in at night. Sleeping without sheets with a wet towel to wipe off. I cant remember anyone having a heat stroke. Our coaches were so ill informed they withheld water during practice. We were accustomed to the heat and played both ways.
Now when I walk 18 I drink 16oz of water at least every 3 holes. My goal is to pee at least three times during the round. For you wise guys i dont have BPH.

I think there is some merit in not staying in as much AC as we do and at least sleeping at 85 with a fan at night. 

Now kids drink themselves to death.  One in GA and one in MS this summer.  Could call it "Death by Gatorade Marketing".  Drink when you are thirsty.  Back in your day, endurance athlete hyponatremia didn't kill people.  "Waterlogged" by Timothy Noakes, MD is a good resource on the subject.

On that same general note, yesterday they were saying Dez Bryant was cramping, dehydrated, etc. In this day and age, with superior nutrition, hydration, and electrolyte replenishment, how can that possibly happen to a well-conditioned athlete?   

More Gatorade marketing.  If you read the real scientific literature on cramps, you will find that it is not secondary to dehydration or electrolyte imbalance.

[Kenny Hawgins]

Now kids drink themselves to death.  One in GA and one in MS this summer.  Could call it "Death by Gatorade Marketing".  Drink when you are thirsty.  Back in your day, endurance athlete hyponatremia didn't kill people.  "Waterlogged" by Timothy Noakes, MD is a good resource on the subject.

More Gatorade marketing.  If you read the real scientific literature on cramps, you will find that it is not secondary to dehydration or electrolyte imbalance.

You need to find better sources.  Both of those deaths were due to hyponatremia, which is generally caused by too much sweating (loss of sodium) combined with drinking too much water.  Drinking gatorade supplies sodium and prevents hyponatremia.

Can some of you guys at least try to educate yourselves before giving us the latest in 1950's physiology?

FWIW, as it relates to the OP, I highly doubt that going back to 6'0 220 lb (well conditioned) linemen is going to solve our problems.  If it were a good idea, more people would be doing it.  If you want to see how small conditioned teams fare, take a look at Navy.

[Kenny Hawgins]

That settles it. Let's get a bunch of Kenyans and we will win a NC. Who won the Boston Marathon this year? He have any eligibility left?

The games changed old timers. You win with either superior athletes or comparable athletes and great coaching. Endurance is good and all, but strength and depth is far more important.

LOL check out this stud d-tackle we're bringing in next year.   

[rusvegashog]

That settles it. Let's get a bunch of Kenyans and we will win a NC. Who won the Boston Marathon this year? He have any eligibility left?

The games changed old timers. You win with either superior athletes or comparable athletes and great coaching. Endurance is good and all, but strength and depth is far more important.

Too funny, my thoughts exactly.

[VBMark]

You need to find better sources.  Both of those deaths were due to hyponatremia, which is generally caused by too much sweating (loss of sodium) combined with drinking too much water.  Drinking gatorade supplies sodium and prevents hyponatremia.

Can some of you guys at least try to educate yourselves before giving us the latest in 1950's physiology?

FWIW, as it relates to the OP, I highly doubt that going back to 6'0 220 lb (well conditioned) linemen is going to solve our problems.  If it were a good idea, more people would be doing it.  If you want to see how small conditioned teams fare, take a look at Navy.

This.

[pigtrino]

You need to find better sources.  Both of those deaths were due to hyponatremia, which is generally caused by too much sweating (loss of sodium) combined with drinking too much water.  Drinking gatorade supplies sodium and prevents hyponatremia.

Can some of you guys at least try to educate yourselves before giving us the latest in 1950's physiology?

Hyponatremia is from over drinking. EAH didn't exist in the 1950s. It is a modern phenomenon brought about by misguided hydration recs. My reference is from 2012. There is ample literature to peruse or you can continue to rely on TV commercials.

[Kenny Hawgins]

Hyponatremia is from over drinking. EAH didn't exist in the 1950s. It is a modern phenomenon brought about by misguided hydration recs. My reference is from 2012. There is ample literature to peruse or you can continue to rely on TV commercials.

It is typically seen from a combination of excessive sweating along with drinking too much water which dilutes sodium levels.  Gatorade has sodium which prevents hyponatremia so those kids you spoke of drank too much water.  As for 'misguided hydration recs', you'll have to be more specific as to what these are and where they come from. 

[Hogsmo Kramer]

That settles it. Let's get a bunch of Kenyans and we will win a NC. Who won the Boston Marathon this year? He have any eligibility left?

The games changed old timers. You win with either superior athletes or comparable athletes and great coaching. Endurance is good and all, but strength and depth is far more important.

^^^This^^^.

It's a different game now, not saying better, but very much different than it used to be.

[Piggfoot]

You need to find better sources.  Both of those deaths were due to hyponatremia, which is generally caused by too much sweating (loss of sodium) combined with drinking too much water.  Drinking gatorade supplies sodium and prevents hyponatremia.



Can some of you guys at least try to educate yourselves before giving us the latest in 1950's physiology?

FWIW, as it relates to the OP, I highly doubt that going back to 6'0 220 lb (well conditioned) linemen is going to solve our problems.  If it were a good idea, more people would be doing it.  If you want to see how small conditioned teams fare, take a look at Navy.

PorkRyan
Senior

Karma: +98/-170
[applaud] / [smite]
Offline
Posts: 1,256
Hogville.net Rocks!
 

We certainly werent hyponatremic water was actually withheld and we were given salt tablets and dextrose tablets before practice. It was not uncommon for a 150 lb kid to lose 5 lbs during practice.

[Kenny Hawgins]

PorkRyan
Senior

Karma: +98/-170
[applaud] / [smite]
Offline
Posts: 1,256
Hogville.net Rocks!
 

We certainly werent hyponatremic water was actually withheld and we were given salt tablets and dextrose tablets before practice. It was not uncommon for a 150 lb kid to lose 5 lbs during practice.

Sure, there was greater tolerance for heat back then and a lot of it has to do with kids sitting inside all summer.  However, with all due respect, I hope we don't see any 150 lb kids suiting up for us unless they're a kicker. 

[Mike Irwin]

Heating the indoors up to 105 and drill drill drill would send players to the hospital, maybe even kill them.

Doctors will tell you that there's no such thing as getting in shape to perform high cardio activities (a football game or workout) in the deadly combination of heat, humidity and lack of a breeze. The body cools itself by the evaporation of sweat off the skin. If that sweat won't evaporate the human body ends up like an automobile doing 80 down the Interstate with no coolant in the radiator.

As has already been pointed out in this thread heavy substitution is the best way to combat the stress to the body that Arkansas' players encountered in the Auburn game.

This is only necessary on rare occasions. Like with games in Alabama in late August after a rain before kickoff time when the temperature suddenly jumps into the 90's.

[DeltaBoy]

Yep they tell us that Mike but when we didn't have AC and took salt tablets and had no or little water breaks I never hear of people dying from Heat , Suffering from too much water and such things we hear about today.

[aaronpjones21]

Yep they tell us that Mike but when we didn't have AC and took salt tablets and had no or little water breaks I never hear of people dying from Heat , Suffering from too much water and such things we hear about today.

Maybe you all weren't working as hard? 

[Reservoir Hogs]

Yep they tell us that Mike but when we didn't have AC and took salt tablets and had no or little water breaks I never hear of people dying from Heat , Suffering from too much water and such things we hear about today.

key word you never heard about it... it happened, just wasn't a news event when it did

[PorkRinds]

Yep they tell us that Mike but when we didn't have AC and took salt tablets and had no or little water breaks I never hear of people dying from Heat , Suffering from too much water and such things we hear about today.

Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

[thirrdegreetusker]

If you read the real scientific literature on cramps, you will find that it is not secondary to dehydration or electrolyte imbalance.

My formal PE education was in the 70s and 80s. At that time, they thought that, in a well-conditioned athlete, cramps were caused by an imblance in salt/potassium ratio. What is the current thinking?

[thirrdegreetusker]

Heating the indoors up to 105 and drill drill drill would send players to the hospital, maybe even kill them.

I agree that this is almost certainly the case now. But two generations ago, most Arkansas homes had no AC, many cars had no AC, my high school had no AC, our HS coach gave us no water during two-a-days.......nobody croaked.

Humans can acclimate to almost any conditions. Working out on weights, fanatically, in an air-conditioned gym does ZERO toward acclimating that athlete for heat/humidity. As far as getting ready for the heat alone, that kid would be better off hauling hay or cutting firewood all summer. 

[thirrdegreetusker]

  If you want to see how small conditioned teams fare, take a look at Navy.

Or you could make a point that, with superior conditioning, Navy's one-stars can often hang with the four-stars and five-stars on top-ten teams.........and win one now and then.......cuz they do.....

How come so many "freaks" (Clowney, Kearse) of the last 15-20 years just happen to be 6'5-ish,  265-ish, just like most UA linemen under Broyles and Holtz in the 70s and 80s?

[PorkRinds]

Or you could make a point that, with superior conditioning, Navy's one-stars can often hang with the four-stars and five-stars on top-ten teams.........and win one now and then.......cuz they do.....

How come so many "freaks" (Clowney, Kearse) of the last 15-20 years just happen to be 6'5-ish,  265-ish, just like most UA linemen under Broyles and Holtz in the 70s and 80s?

Neither of them are Offensive linemen...

[MJ2]

No doubt conditioning is important but it doesn't translate into football success.   If it did, then you would have to say that most college basketball teams would beat the football teams since they typically are better conditioned and in better overall physical shape than footballers.   But, we  all know that the fastest, the strongest, and the one with the most endurance does not alway win.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

Or you could make a point that, with superior conditioning, Navy's one-stars can often hang with the four-stars and five-stars on top-ten teams.........and win one now and then.......cuz they do.....

How come so many "freaks" (Clowney, Kearse) of the last 15-20 years just happen to be 6'5-ish,  265-ish, just like most UA linemen under Broyles and Holtz in the 70s and 80s?

They're size alone isn't what makes them "freaks".

They're first step quickness and overall athleticism does especially when considering they're not exactly small human beings either.

Bo Jackson was a freak of freaks because he was 240 lb. but could run like someone 165 lb. and was athletic like no one I've ever seen at that size.

His size, while it mattered, doesn't mean much though without the other factors taken into consideration.

[3Scoreand10]

That settles it. Let's get a bunch of Kenyans and we will win a NC. Who won the Boston Marathon this year? He have any eligibility left?

The games changed old timers. You win with either superior athletes or comparable athletes and great coaching. Endurance is good and all, but strength and depth is far more important.

If you will notice, I was talking about the past. Super conditioning was necessary back then because of the limits on substututions.
We often beat better teams in the fourth quarter only because they were out of gas and we were not.

I know times have changed, and it makes for a better game.

[1highhog]

Players on every team still do that today.

I even saw a Nichols St player hold his hand up starting the 2nd quarter like a lot of players do meaning this is our quarter.  Either that or he was hoping like heck the bus was leaving at 4 so he could get the heck out of Fayetteville.

[DukeOfPork]

Yep they tell us that Mike but when we didn't have AC and took salt tablets and had no or little water breaks I never hear of people dying from Heat , Suffering from too much water and such things we hear about today.

Heat exhaustion, like ACL tears and rotator cuff tears, weren't invented until the 80s. 

As stated before, you just didn't hear about these things.  It's like how the world is actually more peaceful than ever before, yet because reporting is so much more thorough on conflicts and violence, everyone's perception is that the opposite is true.

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

Another factor. Back in the 60's, the scholarship limit was around 50 per year, instead of the 20-25 we can sign each year now.  Much easier with those numbers, to have quality back-ups that could come into a game fresh, & provide good depth at most positions. 

[Grunt]

If you will notice, I was talking about the past. Super conditioning was necessary back then because of the limits on substututions.
We often beat better teams in the fourth quarter only because they were out of gas and we were not.

I know times have changed, and it makes for a better game.

But say you got a tough NG in there and your 2 guy is injured, you don't want him dropping off in the fourth.

Few years ago, Dallas nearly ran that one guy to death (what's his name? on Dancing with the Stars). He was so exhausted when he left the field he'd head straight to the sideline then slow walk to the bench.

[Grunt]

Better game now, I agree. In other ways too. Back in the old days, an O-lineman got a hand out away from his body he was "holding". In open field a blocker would cut you down and there was more helmet to helmet contact. There was lot's of emphasis on meanness. AR had a guy named Dennis Winston. I think it was shortly after he arrived at pro camp, he got the nickname "Dirt Winston".

[pigtrino]

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_148234.html

Not sure how to post links. This is for those that think hyponatremia is the result of anything other than over drinking (if it works).

[HogFanatic]

Is it really all that funny for people to call older fans "old timers" and chide them when they feel their opinions are misguided?

I thought Arkansans were taught to respect their elders...

Buncha jagoffs

[PorkRinds]

Is it really all that funny for people to call older fans "old timers" and chide them when they feel their opinions are misguided?

I thought Arkansans were taught to respect their elders...

Buncha jagoffs

Sometimes it's pretty funny, yeah.

[grayhawg]

Is it really all that funny for people to call older fans "old timers" and chide them when they feel their opinions are misguided?

I thought Arkansans were taught to respect their elders...

Buncha jagoffs

It ain't all that bad, I just laugh because I remember what it was like to be 20, 30 or 40 years old. I would say those old guys don't know anything, not realizing they had been here observing life for a lot longer than I had. So call us old timers and think we have lost it, because we know you haven't found it yet.

[clutch]

Yep they tell us that Mike but when we didn't have AC and took salt tablets and had no or little water breaks I never hear of people dying from Heat , Suffering from too much water and such things we hear about today.

You also didn't have the internet......... Where you hear about 99% of these situations. Without the internet you probably wouldn't know it was going on today either unless it happened somewhere close to you. I'd bet almost anything that it happened back then too.

[clutch]

Is it really all that funny for people to call older fans "old timers" and chide them when they feel their opinions are misguided?

I thought Arkansans were taught to respect their elders...

Buncha jagoffs

Didn't realize it's unacceptable to joke around with older people. Learn something new everyday here. This place is too uptight.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

Didn't realize it's unacceptable to joke around with older people. Learn something new everyday here. This place is too uptight.

Don't sweat it Clutch it's MMQB the place where fun goes to die.

We'll just mosey on back over to the gym where fun is alive and well and where the women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. 

[PonderinHog]

Y'all just stay off my lawn and I'll try to tolerate you.   

[clutch]

Y'all just stay off my lawn and I'll try to tolerate you.   

I'm going to send my dog over to take a dump in it and then steal your paper you old goat. I'll have to set an alarm though because I know you old folks wake up before the sun comes up.

[clutch]

Don't sweat it Clutch it's MMQB the place where fun goes to die.

We'll just mosey on back over to the gym where fun is alive and well and where the women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. 

Heard that.