Punting at the 35

[VT HOG]

What's the reasoning for doing this twice? The punter did a good job and downed both of them inside the ten or else it would've been a real disaster. Still why do that against a team that's moving the ball seemingly at will against your defense?

[Biggus Piggus]

Why miss a 52-yard field goal? And hand the opponent the football in much better field position? If we had Zach Hocker it's a different story.

[ricepig]

Bielema said in his PC that they had the 25yd line as the max for a Henson FG.

[Porkahontas]

If he had went for it and we didn't get it, everyone would have been up in arms about that also. Sometimes a coach is gonna get crucified regardless. Given Hocker is no longer around, I believe both punts were likely good ideas.

[Pig Worshipper]

Why miss a 52-yard field goal? And hand the opponent the football in much better field position? If we had Zach Hocker it's a different story.

Also, if we weren't playing one of the highest-octane offenses in college football either. If it were a Houston Nutt-type offense on the other side, you might give your field goal kicker a chance to hit a long one, knowing if he misses your defense can probably still stop said opponents' offense.

You don't do that with a Gus Malzahn offense. You punt the ball, try to trap them deep and hope like heck they have a longer field to make some sort of mistake on before they score.

[ShadowTheHedgehog]

What's the reasoning for doing this twice? The punter did a good job and downed both of them inside the ten or else it would've been a real disaster. Still why do that against a team that's moving the ball seemingly at will against your defense?

When you pin the opponent inside the ten you did your job in the punting game, it was the D that let us down.

[Laughing Hog]

BB doesn't trust our kickers.

[Kevin]

When you are in a shoot out, you go for it

[popcornhog]

Why miss a 52-yard field goal? And hand the opponent the football in much better field position? If we had Zach Hocker it's a different story.

This ^^^

[The_Iceman]

BB doesn't trust our kickers.

He trusts Irwin-Hill to pin them inside the 10.

[BallHog1]

When you are in a shoot out, you go for it

Ha! If he had done that and not made the first down, I'm sure nobody would be griping about it either.....

[Poker_hog]

The guys that are saying we should punt must hate math.  The statistics overwhelming say going for it is the right call, especially in a high scoring game.

[Kevin]

Ha! If he had done that and not made the first down, I'm sure nobody would be griping about it either.....

Cannot win in that situation unless it works.

I just like to be aggressive

[popcornhog]

The guys that are saying we should punt must hate math.  The statistics overwhelming say going for it is the right call, especially in a high scoring game.

How so?

With a struggling defense, I'd much rather force AU to drive 95 yards than 65 yards.

[Poker_hog]

How so?

With a struggling defense, I'd much rather force AU to drive 95 yards than 65 yards.

With a struggling defense the other team is likely to score regardless of field position.  Possession are very valuable, way more valuable than 30 yards.  It's been studied.  Basically the higher the score the more valuable possessions become over field position.  I think the coach at pa never punts because of this.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/a-new-study-on-fourth-downs-go-for-it/

[elksnort]

So a scholly was wasted on Hedlund?
I thought he was a great kicker.
When you play a team that's going to drive and score on you wherever you give them the ball, then why not go for it on their 35? When your playing a team that scores a lot then you got to take more chances.

[GlassofSwine]

The punts were both well executed so I don't think you can complain to loudly about them. However, I would have liked to see us go for it after the fumble recovery. It would have been aggressive but we needed some momentum and coming off the turnover would have been a good opportunity.

[870hogfan]

If he would have kicked them and missed people would still be gripping...

[ricepig]

So a scholly was wasted on Hedlund?
I thought he was a great kicker.
When you play a team that's going to drive and score on you wherever you give them the ball, then why not go for it on their 35? When your playing a team that scores a lot then you got to take more chances.

Wasted, no, not at all. Now, to the question of going for it, I figured he would have on one of them.

[popcornhog]

With a struggling defense the other team is likely to score regardless of field position.  Possession are very valuable, way more valuable than 30 yards.  It's been studied.  Basically the higher the score the more valuable possessions become over field position.  I think the coach at pa never punts because of this.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/a-new-study-on-fourth-downs-go-for-it/

I will definitely read this. But without knowing the numbers, it seems like teams don't usually score when backed up to their own 5.

Thanks for the link.

[BallHog1]

If he would have kicked them and missed people would still be gripping...

Exactly, last year we tried fake punts and other trick plays and when it didn't work, guess what, it was the worse idea ever after the fact. So now, he plays it straight up and does the safe thing anddddd, guess what, it was wrong too.  He knows if his kicker can make the kick or not, that's why he's making the call.

[Dirty]

You could give every Hogville member a million dollars and they would still bitch.

[Tomhog™]

He is a wizard at punt placement. Hill is a better weapon right now than an untested FG kicker.

[lefty08]

What's the reasoning for doing this twice? The punter did a good job and downed both of them inside the ten or else it would've been a real disaster. Still why do that against a team that's moving the ball seemingly at will against your defense?

I think you answered your own question

/thread

[elksnort]

Wasted, no, not at all. Now, to the question of going for it, I figured he would have on one of them.

ricepig, Hocker started from the get go. What Hedlund's kicking status? Does anyone reading this know?

Playing a high-powered offense requires taking some chances I think, specially when the defense is not too great

[lefty08]

ricepig, Hocker started from the get go. What Hedlund's kicking status? Does anyone reading this know?

Playing a high-powered offense requires taking some chances I think, specially when the defense is not too great

His status is a red shirt

[ricepig]

ricepig, Hocker started from the get go. What Hedlund's kicking status? Does anyone reading this know?

Playing a high-powered offense requires taking some chances I think, specially when the defense is not too great

Yes he did, they had a competition during camp and Henson won, barely in Bielema's words. 35+7+10=52, he didn't want to try it. I guess go ask him, I just was repeating what he said today. How many 52 graders did Hocker make as a freshman? If you remember correctly, Henson kicked a FG against LSU in 2012 after Hocker had missed.

[mpt]

outstanding job by the punt coverage team.  Run down turn your back to the goal line and catch the punt inside the 5 or 10 yard line.  It sounds simple but very few teams do this.  The first time I saw this happen was in the hogs and bama sugar bowl,  bama would catch the punt on the 5 and the hogs faced a very long field.

[elksnort]

To me auburn was just as likely to score from 90 yards as 65 yards the way they were moving the ball.

Agree. This is why I think we should have gone for it. When your defense is not too great, then your offense has to be more aggressive.

[bennyl08]

Kickers are often best their freshman year because they don't know any better. Hocker was best his freshman year, declining a bit after that before picking it up for his senior season. Tejada had everybody excited his freshman season before he lost confidence. From what little I have seen, I see no reason to redshirt a kicker. Hence, I assume the reason Henson is our starter is because Hedlund has been missing too many.

As for the decision, I disagree with the call to punt both times, but given the results with Irwin-Hill's punting, I can't complain too much. It wasn't a bad decision, I'm just not sure it was the best. With the defense struggling, field position isn't as important as keeping score.

I think one of them would have been fourth and pretty long, but it was still only a 52 yarder. A scholarship kicker should have a reasonable chance of hitting that. Fourth and 4 or less at that end of the field, should probably go for it.

However, as said earlier, punting and pinning them deep was not a bad decision.

[bennyl08]

Yes he did, they had a competition during camp and Henson won, barely in Bielema's words. 35+7+10=52, he didn't want to try it. I guess go ask him, I just was repeating what he said today. How many 52 graders did Hocker make as a freshman? If you remember correctly, Henson kicked a FG against LSU in 2012 after Hocker had missed.

Hocker hit a 51 yarder as a freshman, the longest in school history since the kicking rule were changed. He never matched that distance again until his senior season.

[redeye]

With a struggling defense the other team is likely to score regardless of field position.  Possession are very valuable, way more valuable than 30 yards.  It's been studied.  Basically the higher the score the more valuable possessions become over field position.  I think the coach at pa never punts because of this.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/a-new-study-on-fourth-downs-go-for-it/

I love math, but I'm still not sure about this.  I'm pretty sure there have been college football teams that never punted in the past and it didn't work out for them.

When you pin the opponent inside the ten you did your job in the punting game, it was the D that let us down.

Yea, when you have your opponent pinned within the 10 yard line, you have a great opportunity to make something good happen.  Our defense really needs to step up in those situations.

[Biggus Piggus]

Going for it ... fourth and not short ... on the road ... high school coaches can do that crap.

[jkstock04]

All I know is I had zero confidence our defense could stop them....whether they started on the 2 yard line or the 40. End result was the same.

[Poker_hog]

Going for it ... fourth and not short ... on the road ... high school coaches can do that crap.

Argue with science and you will lose

[redeye]

Argue with good science and you will lose

FIFY

[Poker_hog]

I love math, but I'm still not sure about this.  I'm pretty sure there have been college football teams that never punted in the past and it didn't work out for them.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46257516/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/math-shows-nfl-teams-should-go-it-more-th-down/#.VAUDW9q9KSM

He's another.  He says go for 4th and  1 no matter what.  Go for it most of the time once you've pasted your 30.

Auburn gets about 4 points per possession.  The math is different now then it would be back in the 50s when a team might get 1 point per possession.  Gotta adapt to win.

[Music City Hog]

With our D, we have to score almost every possession against teams.  You go for it on the 35 of you can't kick a FG.  We punted and allowed a 97 yard scoring drive.

[Russ22]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46257516/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/math-shows-nfl-teams-should-go-it-more-th-down/#.VAUDW9q9KSM

He's another.  He says go for 4th and  1 no matter what.  Go for it most of the time once you've pasted your 30.

Auburn gets about 4 points per possession.  The math is different now then it would be back in the 50s when a team might get 1 point per possession.  Gotta adapt to win.

Agree completely with this.  For high school the numbers are even more dramatic. 

While aimed at changing strategy in HS games, some stuff that we wrote about can be used at the college level:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HYJY362

http://7on7football.blogspot.com/2014/08/2013-harrison-data-example.html

[strokerhog]

To me auburn was just as likely to score from 90 yards as 65 yards the way they were moving the ball.

I agree, I think they scored TD' s both times!

[secfan30]

The guys that are saying we should punt must hate math.  The statistics overwhelming say going for it is the right call, especially in a high scoring game.

I would love to see any stat that would say to for it on 4th and 10 in the 3rd quarter versus punting and putting the opponent inside the 10... I will wait for proof of this stat.

[Poker_hog]

I would love to see any stat that would say to for it on 4th and 10 in the 3rd quarter versus punting and putting the opponent inside the 10... I will wait for proof of this stat.

Too easy.  Here you go:

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/11/28/fourth-downs/post.html

See the chart half way down 4th and 10 at the 35 is a go for it.  4th and 4 is a no brainier. 

[Bacons Rebellion]

I would love to see any stat that would say to for it on 4th and 10 in the 3rd quarter versus punting and putting the opponent inside the 10... I will wait for proof of this stat.

All the modern statistical analysis I'm familiar with would say go for it at the other team's 35. The statistics used to be different when it was more difficult to move the ball.

And when you punt you don't necessarily put the opponent inside the 10. You could easily punt for a touchback. Actually, I suppose you could even center the ball over your pooch-kicker's head in a 0-0 game. Nah, that would never happen.

[LRHawg]

If he had went for it and we didn't get it, everyone would have been up in arms about that also. Sometimes a coach is gonna get crucified regardless. Given Hocker is no longer around, I believe both punts were likely good ideas.

Your logic has no place here. This is where we second guess every decision Bielema makes. It makes weak minded people feel smart to point out others mistakes, in hindsight.

[Overtheroadtruckdriver]

Great place for a fake punt.  If you're ever gonna do it, do it inside your own 40.

[BENTON PIGGEE]

I am allergic to punting at the opponent's 35. I swell up and start screaming.

[revolution]

I definitely thought at the time that he should have gone for it on 4th down after the turnover. Instead Bielema told both his kickers and his entire offensive unit that he didn't believe in them. He did let the team know he trusted the defense, which could cause players to doubt the head coach's strategic acumen.

Bielema is walking a thin line with this team and fans. One game in, this year looks like last year - some good moments, but things ultimately break down. Watch and see if the pattern repeats as it did last year. I hope not!

[lefty08]

I definitely thought at the time that he should have gone for it on 4th down after the turnover. Instead Bielema told both his kickers and his entire offensive unit that he didn't believe in them. He did let the team know he trusted the defense, which could cause players to doubt the head coach's strategic acumen.

Bielema is walking a thin line with this team and fans. One game in, this year looks like last year - some good moments, but things ultimately break down. Watch and see if the pattern repeats as it did last year. I hope not!

That game looked nothing like last year to me

[nextlevel]

Your logic has no place here. This is where we second guess every decision Bielema makes. It makes weak minded people feel smart to point out others mistakes, in hindsight.

People bitched about CBB being aggressive and taking risks in the Auburn game last year only to bitch about CBB not being aggressive and taking risks in the Auburn game this year.

I would like to say I'm surprised by this.

[redeye]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46257516/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/math-shows-nfl-teams-should-go-it-more-th-down/#.VAUDW9q9KSM

He's another.  He says go for 4th and  1 no matter what.  Go for it most of the time once you've pasted your 30.

Auburn gets about 4 points per possession.  The math is different now then it would be back in the 50s when a team might get 1 point per possession.  Gotta adapt to win.

Thanks for sharing all the links!

It's an interesting topic and I suspect there's a lot of truth to it.