What will our scheme be to stop the zone-read?

[PonderinHog]

Killing the quarterback isn't an option, is it?  What would be the next best thing?

[Arazorbackguy1]

Get me a Big Orange drink

[ss65chvlle]

http://grantland.com/features/after-offseason-searching-nfl-coaches-know-how-defend-read-option/

Interesting read.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Alot of good thoughts in this thread. I think you must have some things installed to interupt timing. Timing is everything.

Lots of good ideas in this thread, and regardless of scheme, our players have to execute.  We don't have any idea where we stand physically or mentally at this point.  We played much better at the end of the year against MSU and LSU, but it was still poor execution that cost us those W's. 

To your point pigture, I think back to the 31-6 thrashing of OU in the '78 Orange Bowl.  We disrupted their entire game plan by getting someone in the backfield consistently, and once that pattern emerged that we weren't going to give them the edge, their timing got off and they got slower and more deliberate, which played right into our hands. 

While I agree that we can't whiff on assignments and gaps, I also believe that we have got to take some chances and show that we're not going to just sit back on every play.  Question is...do we have some players who are physically capable of disrupting them? 

[Al Boarland]

Lots of describing how to defend every offense in this thread. There are many ways to draw it up. It's all about execution and then you have to have the talent to beat your man.

My opinion, you aren't going to stop it. You just try to limit the big runs and do what you try to do to every O........get them behind the chains.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Lots of describing how to defend every offense in this thread. There are many ways to draw it up. It's all about execution and then you have to have the talent to beat your man.

My opinion, you aren't going to stop it. You just try to limit the big runs and do what you try to do to every O........get them behind the chains.

The truth is, the wide plays weren't the issue last season.  It was just the power running game and our inability to get off blocks and make tackles.  There was no need to have Marshall on the edge...just the threat of it. 

Had they lined up in the I formation, I think the result would have been the same.  We were just outgunned physically.  Their O-line is big and athletic, and they didn't get NEARLY the credit they deserved last year.  In person, it looked to me like they took a guy 6'7" 330, and cloned him 5 times.

They need to be less than crisp like Malzahn's teams sometimes are early on, and they need to turn the ball over to us a few times while we don't  turn it over.  If we see the team that played tough at LSU, then we could shock some people, even though my heart says we're not quite ready to compete at that level.  We'll need some luck.         

[razorbackfanatic]

This.....   and do whatever you can to make marshall beat you with his arm. Hit him as much as possible whether he has the ball or not. If we have to take a penalty... so be it. It would be worth it to get in his head.

I agree. We never really do this in years. The closest game we did something like this recently was Bequette's sr year when he killed Connor Shaw all night. But how many games has are QB been clobbered and when 3 or 4 penalties could have been called we got maybe 1. Tyler Wilson was Slaughtered by Bama in 2011. Ryan Mallett was knocked out of the game by Nick Fairley at Auburn in 2010, then Tyler Wilson came in and had his breakout performance. I know that Robb Smiths style is to be more physical so I hope we get a couple 50/50 call late hits on the QB. I'm not saying hit him low and try to tear his knee up or something, I'm just saying smack his a$$ some. Bruise some ribs, make it hard to throw or maybe bang his hips up were he isn't as mobile. Thoughts of when Sam Olajubutu smeared John Parker Wilson as he was going out of bounds in 06 are popping into my head!! Let's send a message and get somebody Spaighted!!!

[onebadrubi]

The truth is, the wide plays weren't the issue last season.  It was just the power running game and our inability to get off blocks and make tackles.  There was no need to have Marshall on the edge...just the threat of it. 

Had they lined up in the I formation, I think the result would have been the same.  We were just outgunned physically.  Their O-line is big and athletic, and they didn't get NEARLY the credit they deserved last year.  In person, it looked to me like they took a guy 6'7" 330, and cloned him 5 times.

They need to be less than crisp like Malzahn's teams sometimes are early on, and they need to turn the ball over to us a few times while we don't  turn it over.  If we see the team that played tough at LSU, then we could shock some people, even though my heart says we're not quite ready to compete at that level.  We'll need some luck.         

I'll expand on this some as well.  There was a moment, I think late in te 3rd where we really needed a stop.  Malzahn ran the same play like 8 times in a row, it was a soft out route that we just continued to give them. 

Auburn is going to run for 175+ yards.  But do we keep them from scoring 4-5 times?  Can we keep it to a couple TD's and a couple-3 FG's? 

[onebadrubi]

I agree. We never really do this in years. The closest game we did something like this recently was Bequette's sr year when he killed Connor Shaw all night. But how many games has are QB been clobbered and when 3 or 4 penalties could have been called we got maybe 1. Tyler Wilson was Slaughtered by Bama in 2011. Ryan Mallett was knocked out of the game by Nick Fairley at Auburn in 2010, then Tyler Wilson came in and had his breakout performance. I know that Robb Smiths style is to be more physical so I hope we get a couple 50/50 call late hits on the QB. I'm not saying hit him low and try to tear his knee up or something, I'm just saying smack his a$$ some. Bruise some ribs, make it hard to throw or maybe bang his hips up were he isn't as mobile. Thoughts of when Sam Olajubutu smeared John Parker Wilson as he was going out of bounds in 06 are popping into my head!! Let's send a message and get somebody Spaighted!!!

You don't have to do anything illegal.  You just hit him a few times, some as he throws or as his arm is coming down, and all of a sudden things start to change.  It would be nice to put this backup on his butt early and ruffle his feathers too

[Al Boarland]

The truth is, the wide plays weren't the issue last season.  It was just the power running game and our inability to get off blocks and make tackles.  There was no need to have Marshall on the edge...just the threat of it. 

Had they lined up in the I formation, I think the result would have been the same.  We were just outgunned physically.  Their O-line is big and athletic, and they didn't get NEARLY the credit they deserved last year.  In person, it looked to me like they took a guy 6'7" 330, and cloned him 5 times.

They need to be less than crisp like Malzahn's teams sometimes are early on, and they need to turn the ball over to us a few times while we don't  turn it over.  If we see the team that played tough at LSU, then we could shock some people, even though my heart says we're not quite ready to compete at that level.  We'll need some luck.         

Agreed. I think a lot of what Auburn did last season in our game was because of CBB's comment about "American football". They just lined up and pounded the rock. Who knows what their game plan will be this Saturday...

[razorbackfanatic]

DeMarcus Hodge and Bihjon Jackson need to rotate in plenty and hold their gaps at the point of attack. I know they plan in Tawain Johnson starting with Philon. Maybe Tawain's quickness can disrupt some things and get him in the backfield some or cause the center to have to chip on him more with the guard and allow Philon more one on one opportunities but I think a big gap filler like Jackson and Hodge are gonna be very important Saturday. We need plenty of depth there and guys not to get worn out. So I'm hoping Boyd, Ollison, Marks can give quality depth.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Agreed. I think a lot of what Auburn did last season in our game was because of CBB's comment about "American football". They just lined up and pounded the rock. Who knows what their game plan will be this Saturday...

Some suggest that Gus "took it easy on us" and played a vanilla gameplan out of courtesy.  Not buying it.  I think they got a lead, and then they played conservatively to limit opportunities for mistakes and a chance for us to get back in the game.  Only issue was...we couldn't stop Mason from going for 5 yards right up the gut even when we knew it was coming.    

But the few times we did narrow the gap, as someone suggested above, they would uncork some 35 yard pass play over the top and we wouldn't even be close to defending it. 

I do feel confident with saying this.  If we're scoring often, and it's back and forth, you won't see Malzahn running the ball inside the tackles the entire game like he did last year with Mason.  Of that...I'm sure.  And I think that's when our chances improve, because they will be more likely to make some mistakes and turn it over.  Like him or not, if CBB gets a two TD lead, you'd see stadium full of Auburn fans stuck to their seats from the pucker factor. 

[DeltaBoy]

Solid Tackling and limit YAC Yardage.

[Josh Goforth]

I agree. We never really do this in years. The closest game we did something like this recently was Bequette's sr year when he killed Connor Shaw all night. But how many games has are QB been clobbered and when 3 or 4 penalties could have been called we got maybe 1. Tyler Wilson was Slaughtered by Bama in 2011. Ryan Mallett was knocked out of the game by Nick Fairley at Auburn in 2010, then Tyler Wilson came in and had his breakout performance. I know that Robb Smiths style is to be more physical so I hope we get a couple 50/50 call late hits on the QB. I'm not saying hit him low and try to tear his knee up or something, I'm just saying smack his a$$ some. Bruise some ribs, make it hard to throw or maybe bang his hips up were he isn't as mobile. Thoughts of when Sam Olajubutu smeared John Parker Wilson as he was going out of bounds in 06 are popping into my head!! Let's send a message and get somebody Spaighted!!!

If FSU couldnt knock Marshall out of the game I dont see the hogs being any more successful doing it. He is shifty enough that he doesnt take big hits. Trying to go for the knock out on him results in a 60 yd td, just getting him down is the main goal.
In the passing game, he rarely stands in the pocket. When they do throw the ball it is off of rollout, playaction to hold the pass rush or on a quick 3 step drop. Not much opportunity to ge to the QB.

[Pigstie]

You don't have to do anything illegal.  You just hit him a few times, some as he throws or as his arm is coming down, and all of a sudden things start to change.  It would be nice to put this backup on his butt early and ruffle his feathers too

True... and I don't mean play dirty.... but play balls to the wall and not worry about  flags.

[Pigstie]

I agree. We never really do this in years. The closest game we did something like this recently was Bequette's sr year when he killed Connor Shaw all night. But how many games has are QB been clobbered and when 3 or 4 penalties could have been called we got maybe 1. Tyler Wilson was Slaughtered by Bama in 2011. Ryan Mallett was knocked out of the game by Nick Fairley at Auburn in 2010, then Tyler Wilson came in and had his breakout performance. I know that Robb Smiths style is to be more physical so I hope we get a couple 50/50 call late hits on the QB. I'm not saying hit him low and try to tear his knee up or something, I'm just saying smack his a$$ some. Bruise some ribs, make it hard to throw or maybe bang his hips up were he isn't as mobile. Thoughts of when Sam Olajubutu smeared John Parker Wilson as he was going out of bounds in 06 are popping into my head!! Let's send a message and get somebody Spaighted!!!

Bequette also knocked the hell out of Georgia's qb late in the game that helped the win. That's what we need.

[Pigstie]

If FSU couldnt knock Marshall out of the game I dont see the hogs being any more successful doing it. He is shifty enough that he doesnt take big hits. Trying to go for the knock out on him results in a 60 yd td, just getting him down is the main goal.
In the passing game, he rarely stands in the pocket. When they do throw the ball it is off of rollout, playaction to hold the pass rush or on a quick 3 step drop. Not much opportunity to ge to the QB.

And when he runs, he's a running back. Hit him in the knees.

[reddogjcss]

Tackle everyone from back field that has a RB posture

[Fayettechill14]

From what I have seen and been told, on any given play there is at most, one read the QB makes. The guy running the jet sweep? He is either misdirection or getting the ball and everyone knows it before the snap.

There are the zone reads. QB reads one DT (inside) or DE (outside) and keeps or gives.
There is an option toss. QB reads the corner and tosses or keeps.
On pass plays there is usually play action combined with a deep route and an outlet.
Etc.

You won't see an Auburn QB check down to a third or fourth option because there is no 3rd or 4th. Those dudes are decoys and/or setting up to block.

It's not a triple-option like GA Tech or Navy. It's not a pro-style offense like Petrino's with the QB making pre-snap audibles and post-snap reads.

The brilliance of his system is it lets him plug in a great athlete and get very high productivity because they don't have to learn a complex scheme. They just play. And they play fast.

Gotta disrupt them.

That's window dressing. The guy on the jet sweep is just a decoy until he actually gets the ball, and then if you're not ready he's gone. Their offense is "get the ball to the fast guy." It works because it's simple but looks complex.

If we can cover their top two receivers with 3 defenders in man coverage, I like our chances to slow them down. Ability to stop the pass with minimal players is incredibly valuable.

[Deep Shoat]

I think we will put pressure at the point of attack with our tilt nose and run blitzes.  DE's aggressively staying at home, LB's reading and tackling and FS playing in the box.  I think we will force Auburn to pass.

[Fayettechill14]

I think we will put pressure at the point of attack with our tilt nose and run blitzes.  DE's aggressively staying at home, LB's reading and tackling and FS playing in the box.  I think we will force Auburn to pass.

Safeties have to help against the run. That's something Turner can do, but if he's at free, then Gaines may have to.

[Deep Shoat]

Safeties have to help against the run. That's something Turner can do, but if he's at free, then Gaines may have to.

I expect a lot of 4-2-5 and Nickel.  Maybe even some 3 down lineman looks.

[LZH]

Safeties have to help against the run. That's something Turner can do, but if he's at free, then Gaines may have to.

Who are out best tacklers?

[LZH]

I expect a lot of 4-2-5 and Nickel.  Maybe even some 3 down lineman looks.

Yepper.  We DO NOT wanna have to try to tackle them in open space.  So force them inside the tackles where we've got help....or at least where their ballcarriers will have to dance a bit.

[Deep Shoat]

Who are out best tacklers?

Brooks Ellis, Martrell Spaight, Josh Williams.

[Fayettechill14]

Who are out best tacklers?

Turner is our best in run support. Does a great job of coming down to help. Brooks Ellis at MLB is also fairly sure-tackling.

Both OLBs and the CBs are a cause for concern, although the OLBs got better as the season went on last year.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Yepper.  We DO NOT wanna have to try to tackle them in open space.  So force them inside the tackles where we've got help....or at least where their ballcarriers will have to dance a bit.

JMO, but what Auburn runs is nothing more than a version of a "broken bone" with their style of offense. That being said, an effective defense to counter this system requires disciplined, effective, assignment football on the part of the defensive front/front seven.

You can't allow them to gain the "edge" repeatedly or they will have your defense running all over the field, from one side to the other, all night long and just when you over-react to their run-motion, the QB will pull up and heave one downfield to an uncovered receiver. CB's have to play tough and turn the running plays/outside screens back inside.

It will be a challenge, but if we can "slow play them" and keep them from gaining acquired momentum, and our offense can move the ball more effectively than last year, we stand a good chance of being in the game late.

No turnovers, create a couple of turnovers of our own and limit big plays, and we are in this game right down to the end.

[Fayettechill14]

Here's a Fire Zone Blitz



If they try read option left, they'll run into a blitz. If they go right, they won't be able to read the DE since he's moving out. If they do try to go to the right, the DE and SLB (Spaight) have to make that tackle in open field.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Here's a Fire Zone Blitz



If they try read option left, they'll run into a blitz. If they go right, they won't be able to read the DE since he's moving out. If they do try to go to the right, the DE and SLB (Spaight) have to make that tackle in open field.

Question is, is this what we will employ? Nice supposition, but do we really know what Robb Smith is going to run in this situation? And for that matter, if he were going to run this "Fire Zone Blitz", under what down/distance/field position would he do that? I am seriously asking. Are you speculating/projecting or have you heard what his philosophy will generate in any given down/distance/field position situation?

[Fayettechill14]

Question is, is this what we will employ? Nice supposition, but do we really know what Robb Smith is going to run in this situation?

Nope, but he was hired and December and has had 8 months to figure out what to run. Don't think for a second he hasn't been planning since February.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Nope, but he was hired and December and has had 8 months to figure out what to run. Don't think for a second he hasn't been planning since February.

I know he has been planning for some time now, but I am asking if he is planning according to what you are suggesting?

[poloprince]

With the right personnel it really can't be stopped. You just have to limit chunk plays and force a team to field goals. Saban brought in Chip Kelly's old defensive corordinator in the offseason, if that tells you anything.

[Fayettechill14]

I know he has been planning for some time now, but I am asking if he is planning according to what you are suggesting?

No idea, but a Fire Zone blitz is pretty basic fare to stop a read option. Maybe he'll invent a new blitz or concept.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

An explanation of the fire zone blitz and how it is applicable.

What makes LeBeau's Mike Will Linebacker cross fire zone blitz so nasty is it really can hurt tight A gap runs and off tackle power and counter plays. With two of the inside linebackers exchanging responsibilities, it is hard for many teams to use these types of plays unless their players execute it at a high level, aka they make that play their bread and butter and they really practice it a lot.

Drawing up the Mike/Will Cross Fire Zone Blitz

There are actually two popular Mike/Will cross blitz's for LeBeau (if not more), but the two most popular are the Wide Inside Fire Zone Blitz and the Wide Cross Inside Fire Zone Blitz, at least those were the names when he was in Cincinnati.

http://strongfootballcoach.com/defensive-football/dick-lebeaus-mike-will-cross-fire-zone-blitz/

[pigsooietim]

No idea, but a Fire Zone blitz is pretty basic fare to stop a read option. Maybe he'll invent a new blitz or concept.

Blitzing would certainly be more aggressive and isnt that what we were promised ? So you could be onto something... I enjoyed your post on the one back offense and the marriage of CBB and Chaneys style and this post was also good. Thanks.

[Pig In The City]

Keep our offense on the field.