The Eddie Sutton Dichotomy

[TomBigBeeHog]

Is this the reason that Sutton will never get into the Naismith Hall of Fame?
http://www.ocolly.com/sports/article_a21f21cc-8c5c-11e3-b6d3-0017a43b2370.html


Both father and son had to step down at OSU for drug and alcohol problems.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4964551

Could be seen as character issues by voters.

[Inhogswetrust]

Is this the reason that Sutton will never get into the Naismith Hall of Fame?
http://www.ocolly.com/sports/article_a21f21cc-8c5c-11e3-b6d3-0017a43b2370.html


Both father and son had to step down at OSU for drug and alcohol problems.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4964551

Could be seen as character issues by voters.

I don't think it is character issues keeping him out. There are people in quite a few HOF's that have character issues. I believe it is simply not wining a NC. I can't think of another coach off the top of my head not in it that never won a NC that is more deserving to be in. I know Eddie and obviously hope he gets in at some point. I will admit I'm biased because of knowing him though.

[TomBigBeeHog]

I don't think it is character issues keeping him out. There are people in quite a few HOF's that have character issues. I believe it is simply not wining a NC. I can't think of another coach off the top of my head not in it that never won a NC that is more deserving to be in. I know Eddie and obviously hope he gets in at some point.

I can't think of one either. The guy can flat out coach. His record proves that. That's what leads me to think that the recurring drug and alcohol issues are giving the HOF voters pause.

[chiefhawg]

There are some that still hold the Kentucky situation against Eddie although he was cleared of any direct blame.

[1highhog]

There are some that still hold the Kentucky situation against Eddie although he was cleared of any direct blame.

That's sad to.  People forgave Nolan of all his last few years of not Coaching, recruiting, pay me my money, racism, and suing the University, even though it had to done with Broyles and White.  But Eddie went through hell with Broyles, and he was directing his vile toward Broyles, not toward the fans of Arkansas.  He has came back to Arkansas many times since for special events and functions, even those honoring Broyles.  He buried the hatchet with Frank and let things be, as did Hatfield.  Sad that some fans can't see that without Eddie, we would not have a basketball program, you can even go as far as saying that as far as BWA, sure, Nolan had a style of ball that was very exciting, but Eddie sold out Barnhill all his days here plus had people on waiting lists for years for tickets when other Hog fans would die just to get their tickets, some accounts saying the number was as high as 10,000.

[mhuff]

That's sad to.  People forgave Nolan of all his last few years of not Coaching, recruiting, pay me my money, racism, and suing the University, even though it had to done with Broyles and White.  But Eddie went through hell with Broyles, and he was directing his vile toward Broyles, not toward the fans of Arkansas.  He has came back to Arkansas many times since for special events and functions, even those honoring Broyles.  He buried the hatchet with Frank and let things be, as did Hatfield.  Sad that some fans can't see that without Eddie, we would not have a basketball program, you can even go as far as saying that as far as BWA, sure, Nolan had a style of ball that was very exciting, but Eddie sold out Barnhill all his days here plus had people on waiting lists for years for tickets when other Hog fans would die just to get their tickets, some accounts saying the number was as high as 10,000.

1Highhog, Barnhill only held about 10,000 didn't it? I sure miss those days...... we had a program.

[mhuff]

There are some that still hold the Kentucky situation against Eddie although he was cleared of any direct blame.

Really Clark? I am under the opinion that every coach knows what is going on. It is called insulation and the pressure to win at Kentucky. I sure wouldn't send money through the mail though. It might open up and people find it.

[Inhogswetrust]

Really Clark? I am under the opinion that every coach knows what is going on. It is called insulation and the pressure to win at Kentucky. I sure wouldn't send money through the mail though. It might open up and people find it.

Let me assure you that opinion is wrong.

[1highhog]

1Highhog, Barnhill only held about 10,000 didn't it? I sure miss those days...... we had a program.

Didn't quite have 10,000, but was close.  I was fortunate enough to have gone to many games there, missed out on Arkansas vs. UNLV, but during the 1994 and 95 seasons I made every game in BWA.  That's the one thing I missed about Barn hill, well, one of several things.  To me, Barn hill was a majical place to play, and when Jim Robken was there, no place had that type of atmosphere, and did I forget to mention the Mad Hatters?  Who remembers them?  BWA never has come close to crowd noise as the Barn, I doubt few places round the Country could.  I love that place.

[Breems]

ErieHog might be able to answer this.

[1highhog]

ErieHog might be able to amswer this.

Answer what?

[Adam Stokes]

I don't think it is character issues keeping him out. There are people in quite a few HOF's that have character issues. I believe it is simply not wining a NC. I can't think of another coach off the top of my head not in it that never won a NC that is more deserving to be in. I know Eddie and obviously hope he gets in at some point. I will admit I'm biased because of knowing him though.

John Cheney comes to mind.  Heck, Cheney never even reached a Final Four while Sutton had three.

[bigredone]

Coach Cal didn't know about the problems at the schools that vacated wins after he left them, either. I really believe that, don't you?

KY should have been the high point of his career but he had the worst modern record at the basketball school of the SEC. His son was involved in getting KY put on probation, you can believe that Eddie was not involved if you want but apparently the voters disagree.

He did nothing to change the game of basketball. He coached the exact style that the other major coaches of his day did. He left a mark at a couple of schools and should be remembered at those but honestly I don't see him as leaving a mark on the game of college basketball. If you are choosing between Bobby Knight and Eddie Sutton there is really no choice as Bobby had much greater success with that type of system. He was coaching in the era of Denny Crum, Bobby Knight, Dean Smith and his results just do not match theirs.

None of this means Eddie was not a good coach, there is just nothing to indicate greatness there. He coached the same style of play as any number of coaches of his era but did not reach the level of success that those others had.

They had to change the rules to stop Nolan. Love him or hate him he changed college basketball with his system. There could be arguments about who is the better coach if someone is slow enough to take Eddie's side, but Nolan had an actual impact on more than just Arkansas in basketball and that is what people across the nation that get to vote remember. The NC helps, too.

[mhuff]

Let me assure you that opinion is wrong.

+1

Well OK..... I will yield to that simply because I said "Every." That would have to be true 100% of the time to be true. I don't think there is much wiggle room though. Coaches may not want to know , but the vast majority know.  Why not.... the NCAA is not going to do anything. Risk- Reward.  Lots of pressure to win.

[mhuff]

Didn't quite have 10,000, but was close.  I was fortunate enough to have gone to many games there, missed out on Arkansas vs. UNLV, but during the 1994 and 95 seasons I made every game in BWA.  That's the one thing I missed about Barn hill, well, one of several things.  To me, Barn hill was a majical place to play, and when Jim Robken was there, no place had that type of atmosphere, and did I forget to mention the Mad Hatters?  Who remembers them?  BWA never has come close to crowd noise as the Barn, I doubt few places round the Country could.  I love that place.

Barnhill = Magical place. I remember having seats in BWA that first year...... one row from the top..... I didn't care...... I felt lucky to be in the building.

[GuvHog]

Coach Cal didn't know about the problems at the schools that vacated wins after he left them, either. I really believe that, don't you?

KY should have been the high point of his career but he had the worst modern record at the basketball school of the SEC. His son was involved in getting KY put on probation, you can believe that Eddie was not involved if you want but apparently the voters disagree.

He did nothing to change the game of basketball. He coached the exact style that the other major coaches of his day did. He left a mark at a couple of schools and should be remembered at those but honestly I don't see him as leaving a mark on the game of college basketball. If you are choosing between Bobby Knight and Eddie Sutton there is really no choice as Bobby had much greater success with that type of system. He was coaching in the era of Denny Crum, Bobby Knight, Dean Smith and his results just do not match theirs.

None of this means Eddie was not a good coach, there is just nothing to indicate greatness there. He coached the same style of play as any number of coaches of his era but did not reach the level of success that those others had.

They had to change the rules to stop Nolan. Love him or hate him he changed college basketball with his system. There could be arguments about who is the better coach if someone is slow enough to take Eddie's side, but Nolan had an actual impact on more than just Arkansas in basketball and that is what people across the nation that get to vote remember. The NC helps, too.

Why is it that every time a thread that is complimentary of Eddie Sutton is started someone has to go off and act like people who like Eddie are saying he's more deserved of a Naismith H of F induction than Nolan when nothing could be further from the truth??? Nolan fully deserved his induction and I'm very glad it happened. I still believe Eddie will be inducted to that H of F someday but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Nolan deserving it and being inducted. Let's stop this comparison nonsense.

[Inhogswetrust]

John Cheney comes to mind.  Heck, Cheney never even reached a Final Four while Sutton had three.

Cheney is in.

[Inhogswetrust]

+1

Well OK..... I will yield to that simply because I said "Every." That would have to be true 100% of the time to be true. I don't think there is much wiggle room though. Coaches may not want to know , but the vast majority know.  Why not.... the NCAA is not going to do anything. Risk- Reward.  Lots of pressure to win.

I will admit coaches know that sometimes somethings do go on but they don't know who, what, when, where, etc. and are usually not involved. Good coaches either know how to use plausible deniability or will try to change it so it doesn't happen. Coaches have been known to get fired when they stepped into that fray....................................... 

[k.c.hawg]

I liked Eddie and loved what he did for the basketball program. I had started getting into the Running Razorbacks under Lanny Van Eman and Eddie came in and turned Arkansas basketball into something that most Arkansans had never dreamed they would see. Had a couple of conversations with him in the early to mid 80's and he was very cordial for a busy man but was already on his way to destructive behavior. It was not unusual for him to have cocktails in the team hotel bar and try to hide it from the players if it was a lobby bar where players could be in close proximity. I remember sitting next to him in the bar on multiple occasions chuckling as he visited with people while having a drink and setting it an arms length to his left while having a water in front of him.  Didn't bother me at all because I've never met a drink I didn't like but once his problem surfaced I looked back and thought about those days. Unfortunately his drug/alcohol problem didn't just effect him in the end. His DUI accident severely injured a lady and that is something that cannot be erased with an apology. Is Eddie's basketball career deserving of a Naismith HOF....you could make a good case that it is but it more than likely isn't going to happen. I got to go to his induction into the NABC HOF here in KC ......couldn't help but think back to these days. I'll always have a big spot in my heart for Eddie making the winter months in Arkansas exciting.

[Adam Stokes]

Cheney is in.

I read his comment wrong, I was thinking he was asking more along the lines of does he deserve to get in even though he didn't win a championship.  By the standards of those that are in, I believe he does, thus my using John Cheney as an example.

[chiefhawg]

I read his comment wrong, I was thinking he was asking more along the lines of does he deserve to get in even though he didn't win a championship.  By the standards of those that are in, I believe he does, thus my using John Cheney as an example.

Chaney won a Div II National Championship at Cheney State. He was a D-II Legend. They should induct him again because he went after Calipari during a post game press conference and threatened to kill him.

[hoglady]

John Cheney comes to mind.  Heck, Cheney never even reached a Final Four while Sutton had three.

Lots of coaches would have been fired had they acted like Chaney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6jUpHClybQ

[ErieHog]

ErieHog might be able to amswer this.

My intolerance of Eddie Sutton has little to do with his basketball pedigree.  I know I will never want to see him in the HoF, but that's because I'm a Razorback fan.    You don't forgive crawling on his knees to Kentucky, even if he apologized for it every day for the rest of his life.

[bigredone]

Dear Guvhog

I was just pointing out that winning a few games does not automatically put someone in the HoF. They tend to look for people that were innovative or had much more success than their peers for this kind of remembrance.

Eddie stuck around just to get to a number. It was a big number but he did not reach it exceptionally fast so that takes it down in value.

He did not create a new system, he played the same style as his more successful peers.

He did not win the big one.

Normally the HoF does not put someone in just because they hung around the game for a long time. If Eddie were to get in honestly that would be the only justification.

He was not exceptional but he was good. He was very good at Arkansas and I loved it when I was a kid and didn't know a better system. He had pretty good success at OSU where he got the court named after him. He sucked hind teat at KY and left them on probation.

I am sure that some of the voters consider his off the court problems as well although I don't think that is fair to him.

There are a number of his peers that were far more successful. He was not creative. He had issues at KY. He had issues in his off the court life. There are any number of things that may keep him out of the big HoF. Sad but true.

[GuvHog]

My intolerance of Eddie Sutton has little to do with his basketball pedigree.  I know I will never want to see him in the HoF, but that's because I'm a Razorback fan.    You don't forgive crawling on his knees to Kentucky, even if he apologized for it every day for the rest of his life.

But yet you'd forgive Nolan if he apologized for filing the lawsuit against the U of A.

[ErieHog]

But yet you'd forgive Nolan if he apologized for filing the lawsuit against the U of A.

Absolutely.   Eddie's sin, unlike Nolan's justified (albeit pointless) lawsuit, is unforgivable.

[Inhogswetrust]

Absolutely.   Eddie's sin, unlike Nolan's justified (albeit pointless) lawsuit, is unforgivable.

So forgive one sinner but not the other. Hypocrite much? I bet Nolan would have also crawled to KY if given the chance and still filed suit again the UA. Eddie would have never sued the UA. Both are HOF worthy. Both aren't perfect.

[1highhog]

Absolutely.   Eddie's sin, unlike Nolan's justified (albeit pointless) lawsuit, is unforgivable.

Explain to me how you know Nolan's lawsuit was justified?  I got to hear this, albeit from the horses mouth as some say.

[1highhog]

Sutton wasn't crawling away from Arkansas or its fans, as Sutton has always showed his love everytime he mentioned the Arkansas Razorback fanbase.  Nolan, on the other hand, has not.  He had a horse shot and suddenly we're a bunch of racist bastards.  If that's so, then everywhere I've lived in this State, always in the Country and owning horses and cows, and how my fair share shot as has my neighbors,  I'm surrounded by racists, and I'm white.

Nolan blames everything on race, and maybe at times its so.  But probably more than half its not.  I went to Wilmar School,  it was 99% black, 1% white.  I've seen the reverse of everything Nolan said, but instead of crying about it, I embraced it and wouldn't have changed where I went to school for nothing.  I'll get roasted for this because everyone on this Board always thinks this is a lie when someone brings it up, but my best friend is indeed black, has been since the 1st grade.  He was my best man, I was his.  Since our school didn't take a senior trip, my parents took me and my best friend to Gulfport for a week, talk about some racists, they even turned us away at one restaurant in some small town said they were full, 20 people in there at best when it seated at least 50. 

Nolan deserved getting in the NHOF, but this crap spewed about Eddie needs to stop.  Eddie put Arkansas on the map, a Football School that actually played in a barn.  In a few years, Sutton had it to where Broyles had the Barn updated and then again to where it would almost seat 10,000, with another 10,000 on the waiting list for tickets, but Broyles was meddling and Eddie was drinking.  He had had enough of Broyles, he took the first train out to get away from him, just as Hatfield did.

[hoglady]

It doesn't have to be Eddie vs. Nolan.
Without Eddie, Nolan most likely never lands here.
We owe both coaches a debt of gratitude for what they did for Arkansas basketball.
It took Heath and Pelphrey about a decade to destroy it.
These are the coaches Hog fans should gripe about.
I hold no grudges toward Nolan or Eddie - they brought us some great basketball memories. I wish both their departures had been more amicable but it wasn't - I got over it a long time ago.

[1highhog]

It doesn't have to be Eddie vs. Nolan.
Without Eddie, Nolan most likely never lands here.
We owe both coaches a debt of gratitude for what they did for Arkansas basketball.
It took Heath and Pelphrey about a decade to destroy it.
These are the coaches Hog fans should gripe about.
I hold no grudges toward Nolan or Eddie - they brought us some great basketball memories. I wish both their departures had been more amicable but it wasn't - I got over it a long time ago.

Thank you hoglady, very good post.  Now, I hope this thread ends right here on your upbeat post about both Coaches, they both deserve great respect and appreciation from our fan base, let it die.

[ErieHog]

So forgive one sinner but not the other. Hypocrite much? I bet Nolan would have also crawled to KY if given the chance and still filed suit again the UA. Eddie would have never sued the UA. Both are HOF worthy. Both aren't perfect.

Except, you know,  Nolan actually was discriminated against;  the trial findings didn't result in damages,  because he asked to be fired-- which is hardly a sin.   

No hypocrisy at all.   One we mistreated, it ticked him off, and he demanded his money, and we obliged.  He didn't even return to the college game, as a HC.

[ErieHog]

Sutton wasn't crawling away from Arkansas or its fans, as Sutton has always showed his love everytime he mentioned the Arkansas Razorback fanbase.  Nolan, on the other hand, has not.  He had a horse shot and suddenly we're a bunch of racist bastards.  If that's so, then everywhere I've lived in this State, always in the Country and owning horses and cows, and how my fair share shot as has my neighbors,  I'm surrounded by racists, and I'm white.

Nolan blames everything on race, and maybe at times its so.  But probably more than half its not.  I went to Wilmar School,  it was 99% black, 1% white.  I've seen the reverse of everything Nolan said, but instead of crying about it, I embraced it and wouldn't have changed where I went to school for nothing.  I'll get roasted for this because everyone on this Board always thinks this is a lie when someone brings it up, but my best friend is indeed black, has been since the 1st grade.  He was my best man, I was his.  Since our school didn't take a senior trip, my parents took me and my best friend to Gulfport for a week, talk about some racists, they even turned us away at one restaurant in some small town said they were full, 20 people in there at best when it seated at least 50. 

Nolan deserved getting in the NHOF, but this crap spewed about Eddie needs to stop.  Eddie put Arkansas on the map, a Football School that actually played in a barn.  In a few years, Sutton had it to where Broyles had the Barn updated and then again to where it would almost seat 10,000, with another 10,000 on the waiting list for tickets, but Broyles was meddling and Eddie was drinking.  He had had enough of Broyles, he took the first train out to get away from him, just as Hatfield did.

Eddie's language, in his *press conference* says directly otherwise.  It wasn't even private-- he was public about it.     Nolan saw things through a racial lens, without a doubt-- but there is also no doubt that he was mistreated based on his race,  during his time at Arkansas.  None.    We dismiss his lawsuit as having no basis in discrimination, except it found that there was discrimination while he was there-- but that Nolan's exit undercut any ability to translate that to damages, because of his request for termination.

That's what made his lawsuit pointless; it didn't, as the trial judge said, make his claims invalid.

[GuvHog]

Eddie's language, in his *press conference* says directly otherwise.  It wasn't even private-- he was public about it.     Nolan saw things through a racial lens, without a doubt-- but there is also no doubt that he was mistreated based on his race,  during his time at Arkansas.  None.    We dismiss his lawsuit as having no basis in discrimination, except it found that there was discrimination while he was there-- but that Nolan's exit undercut any ability to translate that to damages, because of his request for termination.

That's what made his lawsuit pointless; it didn't, as the trial judge said, make his claims invalid.

I also listened to Eddie's acceptance press conference at UK. Yes, it was public but everyone who knew about the situation with Eddie and Frank knew full well that "crawl to Kentucky" statement was meant solely for Frank Broyles and no one else. Those who didn't know it weren't paying attention. Eddie's language said exactly that.

Here's where we differ Erie, I forgave Eddie a long time ago when he apologized for that statement and I would just as quickly forgive Nolan if he apologized for filing the lawsuit.

[GuvHog]

It doesn't have to be Eddie vs. Nolan.
Without Eddie, Nolan most likely never lands here.
We owe both coaches a debt of gratitude for what they did for Arkansas basketball.
It took Heath and Pelphrey about a decade to destroy it.
These are the coaches Hog fans should gripe about.
I hold no grudges toward Nolan or Eddie - they brought us some great basketball memories. I wish both their departures had been more amicable but it wasn't - I got over it a long time ago.

I agree it shouldn't be Eddie vs Nolan but every time someone starts a thread on here that is complimentary of Eddie, some of the Nolan supporters launch an all out attack on Eddie thinking they have to do so to protect Nolan's status as Arkansas' only basketball National Championship coach and that is just plain silly.

[ErieHog]

I also listened to Eddie's acceptance press conference at UK. Yes, it was public but everyone who knew about the situation with Eddie and Frank knew full well that "crawl to Kentucky" statement was meant solely for Frank Broyles and no one else. Those who didn't know it weren't paying attention. Eddie's language said exactly that.

Here's where we differ Erie, I forgave Eddie a long time ago when he apologized for that statement and I would just as quickly forgive Nolan if he apologized for filing the lawsuit.

I will never forgive Eddie.  If you have that to say to Frank,  say it to Frank;  tell him to piss off in the exit interview,  flip him the bird as you leave the BAC.   You don't say it to a live microphone with regional and national media, during a televised presser.

He threw our program under the bus, and ran us over for good measure. 

[Inhogswetrust]

Except, you know,  Nolan actually was discriminated against;  the trial findings didn't result in damages,  because he asked to be fired-- which is hardly a sin.   

No hypocrisy at all.   One we mistreated, it ticked him off, and he demanded his money, and we obliged.  He didn't even return to the college game, as a HC.

How many coaches whether Eddie or Nolan wouldn't have crawled to KY? It doesn't matter who was or wasn't fired or quit or rehired somewhere else or not. What matters is exactly as Hoglady said. Both were good coaches that left under bad circumstances and both should be remembered fondly.

[Inhogswetrust]

I will never forgive Eddie.  If you have that to say to Frank,  say it to Frank;  tell him to piss off in the exit interview,  flip him the bird as you leave the BAC.   You don't say it to a live microphone with regional and national media, during a televised presser.

He threw our program under the bus, and ran us over for good measure. 

You may never forgive Eddie..............that's a hoot. You don't have to. Frank has and the majority of the fans I believe have. Should Eddie have said it.....no. He regrets it to this day. I guess you've never said anything you regretted and asked people to not still hold it against you huh. He has come back to Arkansas numerous times and done good things. He didn't throw the program under the bus and run over us. The program was bigger than any one person's words by that time. We are damn lucky Eddie came to us to begin with as he was advised by peers and others not to. He took the job on faith and got early players to come for the same reason. Most fans but a few like you realized then and now why he said it and who he was referring to and it wasn't the fans or program he was talking about.   

[ErieHog]

You may never forgive Eddie..............that's a hoot. You don't have to. Frank has and the majority of the fans I believe have. Should Eddie have said it.....no. He regrets it to this day. I guess you've never said anything you regretted and asked people to not still hold it against you huh. He has come back to Arkansas numerous times and done good things. He didn't throw the program under the bus and run over us. The program was bigger than any one person's words by that time. We are damn lucky Eddie came to us to begin with as he was advised by peers and others not to. He took the job on faith and got early players to come for the same reason. Most fans but a few like you realized then and now why he said it and who he was referring to and it wasn't the fans or program he was talking about.   

I know the majority have whitewashed Eddie's conduct while here.   It is a shame.  And yes, Eddie, whether intentionally or not, threw our program under the bus, in the most public way possible, and paired it with going to a competitor.      The same will eventually happen with HDN, in football, and it will be just as wrong, then.

[GuvHog]

You may never forgive Eddie..............that's a hoot. You don't have to. Frank has and the majority of the fans I believe have. Should Eddie have said it.....no. He regrets it to this day. I guess you've never said anything you regretted and asked people to not still hold it against you huh. He has come back to Arkansas numerous times and done good things. He didn't throw the program under the bus and run over us. The program was bigger than any one person's words by that time. We are damn lucky Eddie came to us to begin with as he was advised by peers and others not to. He took the job on faith and got early players to come for the same reason. Most fans but a few like you realized then and now why he said it and who he was referring to and it wasn't the fans or program he was talking about.   

+1 Very well said.

[GuvHog]

I know the majority have whitewashed Eddie's conduct while here.   It is a shame.  And yes, Eddie, whether intentionally or not, threw our program under the bus, in the most public way possible, and paired it with going to a competitor.      The same will eventually happen with HDN, in football, and it will be just as wrong, then.

That's because the vast majority here knew what Eddie meant and who he meant it for. You, quite obviously, didn't. No, Eddie didn't throw the program under the bus. In later years after Nolan was gone, Eddie actually wanted his oldest son Scott (ORU) to get the Head Hog job.

AS for Hooty, that is a whole different story. He really DID hurt the program and will never apologize for it.

[bigredone]

The problem for Eddie is that he was a good coach in an era of exceptional coaches. He did nothing exceptional when compared to other coaches. For Arkansas he was great for his time but has since been overshadowed. There is nothing that really makes him stand out when compared to his peers.

He is also likely judged for his longtime drug/alcohol problems.

He failed at Kentucky.

I don't have a vote but it should be easy to see why he was passed up again. They tend to reward exceptional performances. His career was good but not great.

[1highhog]

I will never forgive Eddie.  If you have that to say to Frank,  say it to Frank;  tell him to piss off in the exit interview,  flip him the bird as you leave the BAC.   You don't say it to a live microphone with regional and national media, during a televised presser.

He threw our program under the bus, and ran us over for good measure. 

You can take what you said above, put Nolan's name in instead of Eddie's, and say the exact same statement.  Except that Nolan said it again and again and again and felt like he had to call the whole fan base racists at one point, and then retracted that.  Your hate for Eddie knows no bounds dude.  Both said plenty things wrong, Eddie has apologized many times, Nolan never has, when and what instances was Nolan discriminated against that you can back up?  Remember now, the UofA had just made him one of the highest paid Coaches in the land.

[GuvHog]

You can take what you said above, put Nolan's name in instead of Eddie's, and say the exact same statement.  Except that Nolan said it again and again and again and felt like he had to call the whole fan base racists at one point, and then retracted that.  Your hate for Eddie knows no bounds dude.  Both said plenty things wrong, Eddie has apologized many times, Nolan never has, when and what instances was Nolan discriminated against that you can back up?  Remember now, the UofA had just made him one of the highest paid Coaches in the land.

Well said. The U of A gave Nolan 17 years and made him a Multi-Millionaire which allowed him to retire in the lap of luxury yet he bit the hand that fed he and his family for that 17 years. He deserves all of the accolades he gets but it's hard to say he was badly mistreated. Frank was racially biased and John White was an idiot but that didn't keep them from letting him stay at Arkansas as long as he did and making him a Multi-Millionaire.

[ErieHog]

You can take what you said above, put Nolan's name in instead of Eddie's, and say the exact same statement.  Except that Nolan said it again and again and again and felt like he had to call the whole fan base racists at one point, and then retracted that.  Your hate for Eddie knows no bounds dude.  Both said plenty things wrong, Eddie has apologized many times, Nolan never has, when and what instances was Nolan discriminated against that you can back up?  Remember now, the UofA had just made him one of the highest paid Coaches in the land.

The difference being that Nolan actually had a basis for what he said, that was acknowledged in Court-  and he never went to work for a direct competitor.  If you really need the examples,  I strongly recommend you look into his lawsuit, and the opinion issued by William R. Wilson.

Just a few tastes:

"Coach Richardson believes without any doubt in his mind that he was fired because of his race and because he spoke out on that subject. Although I found against him on those points, his belief was clearly not unreasonable."

While he said there was not enough evidence of racial bias or violation of free speech as the basis of his firing ,  but that  "the record is a long way from devoid of incidents which could cause him to hold these beliefs."

That is to say, that it was entirely rational for Nolan to understand his firing in a discriminatory context because of his experiences at Arkansas, as revealed in testimony, even if his own tirade created a detrimental impact on his employer that was large enough that would justify a firing on its own grounds.   The lawsuit wouldn't let the judge punish Arkansas for things it did outside of the firing.

People treat Nolan's lawsuit like it was tossed out as being a baseless claim about a pattern of discrimination ; it wasn't.   He lost solely due to the fact his own press conference blowout gave the school a reasonable basis for firing him, that would have been justification in any environment, separate from their history of discriminatory behavior.   

[thirrdegreetusker]

Maybe I missedsomething? Did the racist JFB hire NR before NR was black? Otherwise, some of this makes no sense.

[Atlhogfan1]

Eddie was one of the best defensive coaches of his generation based on principles he learned from Iba.  He built two programs into Final Four programs and IMO deserves to be in the HOF.  The basketball HOF is the most lenient when it comes to inducting.  Eddie certainly qualifies for it. 

What Eddie did was little different than what Hatfield did.  Both got mad at Frank and left.  Hatfield quit building his program earlier.  The crawled to UK comment shouldn't have been made but at least he has apologized.

Nolan shares the connection with Eddie in having been influenced by Iba's defense and using the principles of it in what he coached.  He was an innovator who extended the defense and was also very underrated when it came to other aspects like in game coaching. 

[1highhog]

Maybe I missedsomething? Did the racist JFB hire NR before NR was black? Otherwise, some of this makes no sense.

You didn't miss anything at all.  People bring that up all the time when talking about Frank, but somehow forget that Frank was the first AD anywhere in the South at a big School to hire a Black Coach.  Do people not remember the rude awakening that I know I got when we went on the road in the SWC that first year with Nolan as our Head Coach?  I couldn't believe that bigots like that still existed that were that open about it, with their signs, with their name calling, I really had to take a step back.  Here these same schools had black players, blacks students, and they were throwing racial insults at Nolan.  Like I said, I've experienced the flip side of this in the school I went to, but by high school and graduation, I was friends with everyone in the whole school, small school.  We all still keep in touch.  But back to the point of Broyles and being racist, but hiring the first Head Coach who happened to be black, then why do so?  Explain to me.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Another day on Hogville, another thread derailed. 

[Atlhogfan1]

You didn't miss anything at all.  People bring that up all the time when talking about Frank, but somehow forget that Frank was the first AD anywhere in the South at a big School to hire a Black Coach.  Do people not remember the rude awakening that I know I got when we went on the road in the SWC that first year with Nolan as our Head Coach?  I couldn't believe that bigots like that still existed that were that open about it, with their signs, with their name calling, I really had to take a step back.  Here these same schools had black players, blacks students, and they were throwing racial insults at Nolan.  Like I said, I've experienced the flip side of this in the school I went to, but by high school and graduation, I was friends with everyone in the whole school, small school.  We all still keep in touch.  But back to the point of Broyles and being racist, but hiring the first Head Coach who happened to be black, then why do so?  Explain to me.

One of the problems with that path of discussion is perspective.  Trying to have a discussion about race relations in the 80s and about people who became adults in the 40s US or 60s US is difficult.  You have to try and think about their backgrounds and influences and how they viewed things and how things were in the 80s.  What happened in those decades seem unimaginable now.  Some may pretend events like St Louis this week gives them a feel for it but it doesn't.  I can't relate to Frank or Nolan in this context.  I know from my own experience of being in the first integrated generation in the South, going to school with the first integrated generation and seeing things like prom suspended so mixed couples couldn't go or making sure a black football captain didn't walk with the white homecoming queen, that the 80s was much different than now.  What Frank did or said or Nolan did or said was from their perspective.  Frank may not have intentionally acted in a racist way to hurt Nolan.  Nolan's anger he let out especially when he had the big stage seemed offputting, ungrateful and out of place to some.  But its hard to judge him for it.  These accusations of racism from some seem to be too rooted in today's ultra sensitive pc generation and is too simple. 

I hate rehashing Nolan and Frank's breakup.  It was complicated - too complicated to break down to just race.  Frank interfered with his coaches black or white.  He ran off a legendary basketball coach before Nolan.  He feuded with someone with high morals in Hatfield.  He told a NC winning coach on the edge of rebuilding our football program from the Hatfield era who to hire for assistants.  He influenced Nutt in how he ran his offense.  Nolan was fortunate as he left him alone once he started winning other than giving him at the time great facilities.  I understand some of Nolan's resentment from this.  He had won a NC and been to 3 F4's yet Broyles ignored him while focusing on the football coaches.  But this is a football school and fan base, albeit one of the most balanced in the South with other sports, and Broyles was a football coach.  Plus Nolan had our basketball at a high level.  Frank tried meddling with Nolan early on when he was trying to build his program.  Nolan didn't like that either. 

Another factor you have to consider is the NCAA investigation which only found minor infractions but did lead to a negative spotlight on the program.  Nolan never seemed to show an interest in his players education and publicly stated it.  The NCAA investigation finding academic fraud heightened this negative.  It wasn't an image a university wanted to have. 

The biggest factor is Nolan's program went on the decline.  Much more went into Nolan's firing than race.  It's unfair to both to try and break it down to that which is what some do and they blame Frank.