Ws and Ls should not matter much this year

[weresoclose]

Not compared to improvement seen on Saturdays, it shouldn't.  One of the biggest things we need to see is improved in-game coaching.  Fewer shots fired into our own feet by the coaches, not just by the players.  That said, turnovers have to be strongly curtailed. 

Much like last year, our QB situation will put a cap on the W column.  And that's not 100% BB's fault.  Partly it is, for various reasons, but not fully.  Either way, we as fans need to accept where we are at the most important position.  Where we are likely won't get us to a bowl game, and that's ok for 2014.

There is no need for meltdown if we "underperform" in hogville eyes this season.  2014 is still a pass, and we should support the team as it builds for 2015.

Let's all look for the positives, not the Ls.  We're climbing out of a deep well here...

WPS^TM

[hogcard1964]

Ws and Ls are all that matters.

At least on the planet I reside on.

[HF#1]

W's matter.  We really need to be as close to 6-6 as possible.  If we can be better than 6-6 then great. 

[The Hogfather]

Meh, I don't like this type of attitude.  Doesn't mean I'm going to be calling for anyone's head if we don't win 8 or more.  I just will NEVER go into a season thinking I'd be happy with 6 or less wins.  I expect 7 wins in the regular season.  I think the strength of our schedule and the weakness of our team is being overblown.  I think we're going to be much better and it will show in the W column.

I actually like how our schedule sets up, especially if we could somehow squeak out a W against Auburn in game 1 (I think Auburn will be worse than last season--or at least not as lucky).  I think we give them all they can handle.

[GuvHog]

Meh, I don't like this type of attitude.  Doesn't mean I'm going to be calling for anyone's head if we don't win 8 or more.  I just will NEVER go into a season thinking I'd be happy with 6 or less wins.  I expect 7 wins in the regular season.  I think the strength of our schedule and the weakness of our team is being overblown.  I think we're going to be much better and it will show in the W column.

I actually like how our schedule sets up, especially if we could somehow squeak out a W against Auburn in game 1 (I think Auburn will be worse than last season--or at least not as lucky).  I think we give them all they can handle.

Well said. I believe they'll win 8 games but I wouldn't be that disappointed with only 7.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

I think the strength of our schedule and the weakness of our team is being overblown.  I think we're going to be much better and it will show in the W column.

I actually like how our schedule sets up, especially if we could somehow squeak out a W against Auburn in game 1 (I think Auburn will be worse than last season--or at least not as lucky).  I think we give them all they can handle.

Agree on both points.  Our schedule the last X number of years has been difficult SFW we play in the SEC.  At least the timing of this year's schedule is much better.  It is broken down into manageable blocks and we get a bye week before Bama and LSU.  There is no murderer's row of games.  There is a two game block of Alabama then Georgia, but both those are at home followed by UAB.  Although you have to take every game seriously if anyone needs a break or is dinged up after Bama-Georgia you could rest them this week then MSU in Starkville, then Bye then LSU.  5 of the last 7 games at home.

[bphi11ips]

Not compared to improvement seen on Saturdays, it shouldn't.  One of the biggest things we need to see is improved in-game coaching.  Fewer shots fired into our own feet by the coaches, not just by the players.  That said, turnovers have to be strongly curtailed. 

Much like last year, our QB situation will put a cap on the W column.  And that's not 100% BB's fault.  Partly it is, for various reasons, but not fully.  Either way, we as fans need to accept where we are at the most important position.  Where we are likely won't get us to a bowl game, and that's ok for 2014.

There is no need for meltdown if we "underperform" in hogville eyes this season.  2014 is still a pass, and we should support the team as it builds for 2015.

Let's all look for the positives, not the Ls.  We're climbing out of a deep well here...

WPS^TM

The source of this most makes it a must read.  +1

[razorbackkid]

Losing a game or three never really bothers me as long as we are competitive.

52-0 isn't competitive.

Improvement will suffice this year.

[hoglady]

If we only win 3 or so games - what do you expect the 2015 recruiting class to look like?
Beliema's already said what a tough sell it was after 3-9 last year - I imagine another 3-9 would make it a near impossible sell.

[The Boar War]

The folks expecting 7-8 wins need to step back a bit.  Doesn't mean you can't hope for it but you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

[orgkeith]

The folks expecting 7-8 wins need to step back a bit.  Doesn't mean you can't hope for it but you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

I will accept 7-8 wins but will be ok with it if we win more.  3 to 4 wins is never acceptable and never will be.  Lowering expectations is never the way to go unless we plan to dismantle the program.

[Wildhog]

3 to 4 wins is never acceptable and never will be. 

So much this.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Ws and Ls are all that matters.

At least on the planet I reside on.

A wise coach once said "A rebuilding year is what you do so that there is a really good situation for the coach they hire after they fire you".

[Biggus Piggus]

What I want to see most, trying to balance importance and probability (I'd love to see us beat Bama by 100, but...):

* Far more rushing first downs and touchdowns. If the running game is consistent, we get more first downs and chances to break long runs. Last year, we bogged down on the opponent's side of the 50 far too often. And fumbles, damn, way too many. This TD number needs to double.

* Short completions, not long incompletions. Last year on obvious passing downs, it seemed we rarely had anyone rolling around into dump-pass position. Not enough high-% options in the passing game. Never have heard an explanation. Brandon Allen probably took 500 bp off his completion % just by throwing it away when nobody was open. Gaining something on third down helps, even if it doesn't move the chains.

* Bump and press coverage. Crap, other teams are going to out-talent us at the receivers. Look at Ole Miss. Laquon Treadwell is 6-2, 229, and fast. Even OM has an awesome receiver. How can we offset the fact that other teams will have more big-play potential? By forcing pass plays to develop more slowly. Don't allow receivers to be instantly open. Give the rush more time to reach the QB. These factors will lower completion %, create more chances for turnovers.

* Turnovers. Yeah, that. Past two seasons were the worst for forcing turnovers in school history. Nothing says more about our defense than that stat. Offenses had far too many successful plays. That gives them confidence, wears down our starters, and the whole thing snowballs. I know from history that a team can force turnovers by making it central to defensive strategy. If Arkansas doesn't force a lot more turnovers this season, I'll be very surprised.

* Creative use of tight ends. Arkansas has three very interesting players at tight end. Take a note from Texas Tech. Leading receiver? Jace Amaro, 106 catches, 1,352 yards. Holy crap. Amaro is a 6-5, 260-pound tight end. Passes to tight ends don't have to all be 20+ yard throws. We have three tall guys who can go get the football. If we don't complete 60% this season with a lot going to the tight ends, something's bad wrong with the entire offensive scheme.

* Real punt coverage. Even if you take out the 58-yard TD return we gave up at Rutgers, the Hogs' punt coverage allowed 11 yards per return. Horrible.

[razorbackkid]

If my kid fails a class, I don't jump for joy that he made a D the next year. I want to see at least Cs regardless of how poorly he did the year before.

Coaches get report cards too, from 3-9.....what is acceptable, and to whom, is the question.

[Atlhogfan1]

For the sake of argument let's say .500 is a C.

Now, like I said if my kid got an F last year, I don't accept a D this year simply becuase it was an improvement. I expect, nay DEMAND that he improve to at least a C.

6-6 should be the barely acceptable for any given season no matter the circumstances or the record of the previous year.

Now that being said, you certainly don't fire coaches based off one or two unacceptable seasons, but let's say he won 3 last year then 4 this then 5 next year. THREE unacceptable seasons, do you then say "hey at least he improved every year?

What if your kid doesn't have the resources the other kid do, he's stupid and needs  more time to learn, and the grades are done on a curve?  In this case, his grades aren't totally up to him.  He is in competition with his classmates.  He may have studied and gotten smarter but his classmates have too and are still ahead of him. 

6-6 may not be acceptable once we see how the season plays out.  Less than 8 may be unacceptable looking back or 5 may be a high achievement.  We don't know yet.

[Biggus Piggus]

Nobody wants to frickin lose. But there are levels of losing. The 2009 season had different levels of losing. For a half, we went toe-to-toe with Georgia, but our defense was too poor. Was nice to score 41, but being terrible on defense left a feeling of futility. At Alabama, we didn't have a prayer, dominated. On the other hand, knowing that Florida needed a complete officiating screw job to beat us left a defiant feeling, like our next shot would be victorious. Then we immediately went to Ole Miss and got our gob slobbed. Horrid. At the end, LSU needed another blatantly horrible call or three to beat us. We exited the season knowing we were a fair shake away from 9-3. Even with a bad defense.

Last season, it didn't feel like we had the tools to win from Sept. 21 until the final game. We had three straight games (when Brandon Allen was barely functional) where the Hogs barely showed up. Things got progressively better in the last four, but ya just knew the offense couldn't convert when it had to, and the defense was going to break down and give up a big play.

You can say "I want to win every game," blah blah blah. That isn't saying anything of substance. Let's do something that has to happen on the way to winning. Let's not be guaranteed to lose!

Let's not be broken in any aspect of the game. Let's not have to say that against a certain style of offense or defense, we have no chance, because that aspect of our game is not functioning.

We have so many moving parts again, but not as many as last season. Small things can go bad wrong -- like relying on a freshman kicker, for example. I don't care how hard things are to learn, or whatever excuse can be trotted out there. If Arkansas completes less than 50% of its passes again, Jim Chaney has to go and I mean 100% pack your bags and move to Russia go. This is college dammit not the NFL. And Arkansas isn't Stanford. We don't get guys with 1,200 SATs. The offense needs to have some inherent flexibility and unpredictability in its that doesn't require dictating every step of every player's move on the field. We ABSOLUTELY cannot afford to take away our players' athletic ability by making them stop and think. Slowing their reaction time. If you can run 12,000 practice reps, no prob. This is college. Major practice time limitations. And I'm thinking our guys would need a few more reps than they need at Stanford. Or Wisconsin.

[Biggus Piggus]

See what I did thar? Took weresoclose's undisguised smear-the-fans post and turned it into a real discussion. I think I might delete all the idiotic posts and keep the substantive ones on this thread. Be advised.

[Atlhogfan1]

That's the "give everyone trophies" mentality. Sorry, not everyone can get a trophy, and excuses are for non winners.

And yes, there are some people who simply aren't winners, lowering standards won't change that.

Explain how it is.  Where have I lowered standards?

[PygmalionEffect]

Well said. I believe they'll win 8 games but I wouldn't be that disappointed with only 7.

I try to keep up with other's opinions on here best I can, and I think you have always had the opinion that CBB was not a good choice as our coach if I'm not mistaken.

If that is the case, then your opinion about our coach and your prediction about our season don't jive.

[Wildhog]

I just want to win as many as we lose.  I sincerely don't believe that's unreasonable.  If we show a lot of improvement and are way more competitive, but still only win five games, I could accept that. 

[Atlhogfan1]

When you say "oh we were terrible last year so 5 wins is okay this year" that's lowering standards.

Coach is being paid in the $4M per year range, we have a right to expect a team that can play at least .500 ball regardless of circumstances.

That beng said, as I said earlier, I don't call firing a guy if he has the occasional supbar year, it happens, but don't disguise it as acceptable either, it is not.

I didn't make that statement.   

Given the new atmosphere the PTB here are trying to instill, I'll leave the conversation with you at that for now. 

[PygmalionEffect]

That's a good observation about last year's passing game BP.

We probably gave up more easy throw and catch plays than any SEC team on defense which we've all talked about, but probably had the least completed on offense, which I haven't seen talked about as much. 

Receiver/TE talent ?, press coverage from dominating defenses dictating our scheme?  Not sure, but I agree that Chaney needs to find the weaknesses in coverage better this year closer to the line of scrimmage and exploit it. 

[Biggus Piggus]

If the Razorbacks don't beat Nicholls, Texas Tech, NIU, Texas A&M, UAB, Mississippi State and Ole Miss, I will be disappointed no matter what is realistic or probable. Making great strides, improving in every phase of the game, definitely want to see that. But you can't spend potential, an old boss used to say.

Further, I want the Alabama, Georgia, LSU and Missouri games to be outright wars. Brutal bloodbaths. The Hogs need to be in all of these games. They probably have too much big-play potential for us to overcome, but they all also have major issues to deal with. Arkansas absolutely needs to go toe-to-toe with those teams.

Do the above, and the national narrative on the Razorbacks completely changes.

Finally, Auburn. This game bothers me. A win would be incredibly pivotal, night-and-day like. It would accelerate our recruiting a hundredfold. Instant credibility, and all it cost was one bad season with our real head coach. All washed clean.

If Nutt were coaching, he would have the Hogs amped up out of their gourds. He probably would win that game. Nutt had this kind of momentary motivational voodoo, incredible when it worked. That Tennessee game in 1998? Arkansas had no business being in that game. And led 21-0. The Vols steadily amped up the pressure on us, and we couldn't move the ball anymore, and we cracked. But gawd what a coaching job. Texas, Cotton Bowl? Texas in 2003? Masterful.

Of course, right when things seemed to be going well, when it was time for the Razorbacks to prove themselves against the best, a Nutt team would disintegrate. After that, the emotional downdraft always led to more defeats.

The Hogs could be at an emotional peak when they go to Auburn this month. If it works, who knows when the winning streak would end. If not, the doubts start creeping over the team before the first day of September. Can you prepare for a game like this in a workmanlike manner? Focused on execution? With restraint? Or do the Hogs need that emotion to push their ability to another level?

[Atlhogfan1]

That's a good observation about last year's passing game BP.

We probably gave up more easy throw and catch plays than any SEC team on defense which we've all talked about, but probably had the least completed on offense, which I haven't seen talked about as much. 

Receiver/TE talent ?, press coverage from dominating defenses dictating our scheme?  Not sure, but I agree that Chaney needs to find the weaknesses in coverage better this year closer to the line of scrimmage and exploit it.

I've never been a fan of playing soft especially against spread teams whose qb's thrive on making easy throws.  It was enjoyable to watch defenses like LSU or Florida in 2012 play aggressive coverages vs A&M and Manziel.  Well LSU does it to most everyone but they have the DB's to do so.  The danger of course is giving up plays in the running game by doing so.  But I would make a Bo Wallace make a throw under pressure downfield before letting him or the TT qb throw catch and run type passes to receivers with CB playing 8 yards off. 

I'd like to see our backs especially Marshall get some throws in space. 

[Music City Hog]

It's going to get ugly on hogville this season with some of these expectations.  Every non hog fan, journalist, coach, media member, ex-coaches, lines maker, etc have us winning 3-5.

Yet, hogville expects 6-9.  This won't end well.

[Country Stylz]

I'm ready to run through a brick wall after reading that post OP! In a KIA..to kill myself.

[weresoclose]

See what I did thar? Took weresoclose's undisguised smear-the-fans post and turned it into a real discussion. I think I might delete all the idiotic posts and keep the substantive ones on this thread. Be advised.

Have you even been around the past couple years?

The floodgates open and posters who rarely show up otherwise are in droves with ALL CAPS and !!!!!!! 

And many of the regulars are befuddled as well.  You can hear the tears fall behind the keystrokes.



So, let's try to do what you're suggesting and look for the positive steps toward 2015.  I do not buy the argument that we're stuck with this for 5+ years.  I believe the target year is 2015.  Therefore, 2014 is like the Preseason for me; I'm looking for fundamental signs of improvement and depth for the future.

You just used more words to state things, otherwise we agree. 

[Biggus Piggus]

[Biggus Piggus]

[weresoclose]

FYI I don't think 2015 is unreasonable to expect wins.  8 wins isn't an unreasonable expectation in 2015.  That would be .500 in SEC play.

[Inhogswetrust]

Ws and Ls are all that matters.

At least on the planet I reside on.

I didn't know you lived on Mars.........................

[Biggus Piggus]

[Inhogswetrust]

What I want to see most, trying to balance importance and probability (I'd love to see us beat Bama by 100, but...):

Give the rush more time to reach the QB. These factors will lower completion %, create more chances for turnovers.

* Turnovers. Yeah, that. Past two seasons were the worst for forcing turnovers in school history. Nothing says more about our defense than that stat. Offenses had far too many successful plays. That gives them confidence, wears down our starters, and the whole thing snowballs. I know from history that a team can force turnovers by making it central to defensive strategy. If Arkansas doesn't force a lot more turnovers this season, I'll be very surprised.

This! Turnovers are a killer. Ask any real coach.

[GlassofSwine]

It's going to get ugly on hogville this season with some of these expectations.  Every non hog fan, journalist, coach, media member, ex-coaches, lines maker, etc have us winning 3-5.

Yet, hogville expects 6-9.  This won't end well.

  It's disappointing when we lose games we are supposed to lose. The most amazing thing is that the posters who predict 3 and 4 wins are the ones that meltdown. Just wait till the season starts, the guys predicting improvement and 6-9 wins will for the most part look for the positive even in a loss. The guys who predict 3-4 wins will be the ones starting threads about how terrible everything is and the coach should be fired.

[Music City Hog]

  It's disappointing when we lose games we are supposed to lose. The most amazing thing is that the posters who predict 3 and 4 wins are the ones that meltdown. Just wait till the season starts, the guys predicting improvement and 6-9 wins will for the most part look for the positive even in a loss. The guys who predict 3-4 wins will be the ones starting threads about how terrible everything is and the coach should be fired.

I fully expect 3-5 wins but I won't think anyone should be fired.  This team could be much, much better and win 3-5.  It's a slow process.  We were one of the worst teams the sec has had in a long time not named Kentucky.   It's going to take a few years.  I expect a bowl in 2015. 

[ArkansasBread3]

Well said. I believe they'll win 8 games but I wouldn't be that disappointed with only 7.

I love the Hogs but NO way we win 8 games this year.... If we win 6 games CBB will get coach of the year

[Music City Hog]

I love the Hogs but NO way we win 8 games this year.... If we win 6 games CBB will get coach of the year

Yup

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Meh, I don't like this type of attitude.  Doesn't mean I'm going to be calling for anyone's head if we don't win 8 or more.  I just will NEVER go into a season thinking I'd be happy with 6 or less wins.  I expect 7 wins in the regular season.  I think the strength of our schedule and the weakness of our team is being overblown.  I think we're going to be much better and it will show in the W column.

I actually like how our schedule sets up, especially if we could somehow squeak out a W against Auburn in game 1 (I think Auburn will be worse than last season--or at least not as lucky).  I think we give them all they can handle.

This...

[ArkansasBread3]

If the Razorbacks don't beat Nicholls, Texas Tech, NIU, Texas A&M, UAB, Mississippi State and Ole Miss, I will be disappointed no matter what is realistic or probable. Making great strides, improving in every phase of the game, definitely want to see that. But you can't spend potential, an old boss used to say.

Further, I want the Alabama, Georgia, LSU and Missouri games to be outright wars. Brutal bloodbaths. The Hogs need to be in all of these games. They probably have too much big-play potential for us to overcome, but they all also have major issues to deal with. Arkansas absolutely needs to go toe-to-toe with those teams.

Do the above, and the national narrative on the Razorbacks completely changes.

Finally, Auburn. This game bothers me. A win would be incredibly pivotal, night-and-day like. It would accelerate our recruiting a hundredfold. Instant credibility, and all it cost was one bad season with our real head coach. All washed clean.

If Nutt were coaching, he would have the Hogs amped up out of their gourds. He probably would win that game. Nutt had this kind of momentary motivational voodoo, incredible when it worked. That Tennessee game in 1998? Arkansas had no business being in that game. And led 21-0. The Vols steadily amped up the pressure on us, and we couldn't move the ball anymore, and we cracked. But gawd what a coaching job. Texas, Cotton Bowl? Texas in 2003? Masterful.

Of course, right when things seemed to be going well, when it was time for the Razorbacks to prove themselves against the best, a Nutt team would disintegrate. After that, the emotional downdraft always led to more defeats.

The Hogs could be at an emotional peak when they go to Auburn this month. If it works, who knows when the winning streak would end. If not, the doubts start creeping over the team before the first day of September. Can you prepare for a game like this in a workmanlike manner? Focused on execution? With restraint? Or do the Hogs need that emotion to push their ability to another level?

Miss State and and Ole Miss will be the teams with the most experience in the SEC and you will be mad if we don't win those. Come on now lets get realistic, in 2015 if we do not beat them then absolutely get upset and you should be BUT this year NOT going to happen..But I really hope that I am wrong

[weresoclose]

If Nutt were coaching, he would have the Hogs amped up out of their gourds. He probably would win that game. Nutt had this kind of momentary motivational voodoo, incredible when it worked. That Tennessee game in 1998? Arkansas had no business being in that game. And led 21-0. The Vols steadily amped up the pressure on us, and we couldn't move the ball anymore, and we cracked. But gawd what a coaching job. Texas, Cotton Bowl? Texas in 2003? Masterful.

Of course, right when things seemed to be going well, when it was time for the Razorbacks to prove themselves against the best, a Nutt team would disintegrate. After that, the emotional downdraft always led to more defeats.

Nutt is not our coach and allow me to refer you to:

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=571155.0




Right now, we have a coach who shows no emotion other than a hint of confusion.  That has to change, IMO.  So, that is yet another thing I'll be looking for this year instead of Ws. 



To me, I'm looking for in-game coaching improvement.  IMO, assistants' heads can roll if our QB can't complete 50%, etc. -- not HC, not in year 2.  What I don't want to see is unnecessary gambling and deer-in-headlights gaze.

[The Boar War]

I love the Hogs but NO way we win 8 games this year.... If we win 6 games CBB will get coach of the year

I wonder what's going to happen when this team doesn't meet their expectations.

[GlassofSwine]

I fully expect 3-5 wins but I won't think anyone should be fired.  This team could be much, much better and win 3-5.  It's a slow process.  We were one of the worst teams the sec has had in a long time not named Kentucky.   It's going to take a few years.  I expect a bowl in 2015.

If I had to chose today I would say 5-6 wins. However I think there are 8 games on the schedule that we have a good shot at winning. However, it is part of being a fan to hope that you can pull out the upset even when it looks hopeless. I don't think I would want to be the fan of a team if I went into a game or season only holding onto "realistic" expectations. Even when we line up against Alabama this year I will be holding out that somehow we pull out the win.

[Music City Hog]

I wonder what's going to happen when this team doesn't meet their expectations.

They will meet expectations.  They just won't meet hogville expectations.

[Music City Hog]

If I had to chose today I would say 5-6 wins. However I think there are 8 games on the schedule that we have a good shot at winning. However, it is part of being a fan to hope that you can pull out the upset even when it looks hopeless. I don't think I would want to be the fan of a team if I went into a game or season only holding onto "realistic" expectations. Even when we line up against Alabama this year I will be holding out that somehow we pull out the win.

I'm pretty sure even the realists will be "hoping" for a win.

[Hogarusa]

W/L should matter, they do matter, and they will matter.

[Music City Hog]

W/L should matter, they do matter, and they will matter.

It may matter on hogville, but BB could go 2-10 and be in no danger of losing his job.

[hogcard1964]

It may matter on hogville, but BB could go 2-10 and be in no danger of losing his job.

Do you have proof or a link/ with a quote for that?

[Music City Hog]

Do you have proof or a link/ with a quote for that?

Of course not.  Do you have proof or a link for the following quote you made:


We're not going to have to endure many more "losses".  This thing is turning around as we speak.


Of course you don't.

See how this opinion/message board thing works?

[lefty08]

Not compared to improvement seen on Saturdays, it shouldn't.  One of the biggest things we need to see is improved in-game coaching.  Fewer shots fired into our own feet by the coaches, not just by the players.  That said, turnovers have to be strongly curtailed. 

Much like last year, our QB situation will put a cap on the W column.  And that's not 100% BB's fault.  Partly it is, for various reasons, but not fully.  Either way, we as fans need to accept where we are at the most important position.  Where we are likely won't get us to a bowl game, and that's ok for 2014.

There is no need for meltdown if we "underperform" in hogville eyes this season.  2014 is still a pass, and we should support the team as it builds for 2015.

Let's all look for the positives, not the Ls.  We're climbing out of a deep well here...

WPS^TM

I agree with all of this except this subtle jab here, its complete garbage