QB Development At Arkansas Not a Quick Study

[Mike Irwin]

Second-year Razorback tight ends coach Barry Lunney Jr. admits he's a big fan of offensive coordinator Jim Chaney's offense. "When it's fully installed with players who've had the time to learn it and embrace it it's going to be a beautiful thing to see," Lunney said at Friday's Northwest Arkansas Razorback Club golf outing. "But it's not a quick fix. It's complex. You don't master it overnight."

A check of Chaney's 30 year background in coaching reveals an interesting change in philosophy. At Purdue a much younger Chaney was considered to be an early guru of the spread offense. From 1997 through 2005 coaches like Urban Meyer made the trip to West Lafayette, Indiana to study Chaney's system which was known for it's simplicity. Easy to install. Easy to teach. Easy to learn.

Chaney's days as a master of the spread offense came to an end in 2006 when he moved to the NFL as an offensive line coach with the St. Louis Rams. In a brief
two-year span his exposure to a pro-style attack convinced Chaney that it was superior to the spread if a coach had the right athletes and the proper time to install it.
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[Steef]

Good article, Mike. Thanks.

Now. Write the dang book.   

[racinghog]

Thanks Mike did BA really only practice 1 day a week after the injury?

[Melorock089]

I hope so. I hope everything they say comes true, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Mike Irwin]

Thanks Mike did BA really only practice 1 day a week after the injury?

Initally, Yes. Lunney Jr. told me that the week of the A&M game BA ran through some plays on Thursday and if it was a pass he had to pretend to throw the ball.

So I asked him the same question I've read many times on this board. How come you guys didn't have another QB ready to go if BA was that limited?

He said that even though Jim Chaney's offense is different from Petrino's both are very demanding on QBs. In other words you don't learn it in one season. From a starting standpoint BA had the maturity they needed. Nobody else but Derby was even close.

This is why those fans who want Rafe Peavy to start this season are missing the mark. As Bielema said last week Peavey is not ready. Austin Allen is ahead of Peavey and he's not ready.

[Steef]

The first year Mallett played here was really his second year in the Petrino system. And he still wasn't grasping it. His final year was where he shined.

Same with Tyler.

And Brandon had to unlearn that.


As opposed to Manziel. Who didn't run the Summit system. He ran the Manziel system.

[three hog night]

Everybody complains about BA last year, but good gosh he was injured.  Those same "fans" literally think that last year is who BA is, so they forecast MORE of the same for this year.  All of the offense has to go through the QB like a point guard, so an injured QB decimates the offense.

[East TN HAWG]

The SEC is the toughest grind for QBs.  It chews them up, and spits them out.  From the sound of things, BA was trying to learn a complex system with very limited practice time against the toughest competition.  This would be similar to learning the game of golf from a book, and hundreds of thousands criticizing your swing on the national media.  Kudo's to Cheney, Lunney and Allen's dad for maintaining BA's confidence.  That in itself is a feat.   

[racinghog]

Thanks Mike....I agree with the other posters here BA deserves some kudos for having the toughness to play last year.  Playing QB is hard, sitting in the stands or in front of a TV and complaining, not so much.

[fakebobholt]

I hope im wrong but I just dont see BA being the answer. That isnt a nock on him but based on what I saw last year I think hes holding the spot down until one of the 3 takes over. Most seem to think it will be Rafe over Austin. I havent seen enough of either to say but one thing I find odd is that if coach is so worried with players health, why would he run out a kid on pain killers that didnt practice during the week. I have a hard time believing that the media wouldn't have dug this up during all that bs. I have heard that maybe game 3 if BA isnt getting itdone,who is next up. Sometimes thrown in the fire will produce better results the following year once they get some game time.

[iCalledThatHogBrotha!]

What I don't get is this: The defense was too complex so we simplified it and improved greatly the 2nd half of last season and (apparently) continue to improve. The offense is very complex so we... don't change anything and make sure our 2nd string TE continues to get reps at QB.

[Pig Worshipper]

I don't know if they've actually "simplified" the defense but rather made it more aggressive than the "bend but don't break" defensive strategy we had last year.

As far as our quarterbacking is concerned, I would hope that we WILL have an adequate back-up this year, but with our young quarterbacks learning, it at least does look like we'll truly be two-deep at that position next year.

[ShadowTheHedgehog]

What I don't get is this: The defense was too complex so we simplified it and improved greatly the 2nd half of last season and (apparently) continue to improve. The offense is very complex so we... don't change anything and make sure our 2nd string TE continues to get reps at QB.

Maybe because a simplified pro style offense like he runs would be too easy for the opponents to defend, whereas a simplified defense is still effective because your defensive job is to break up the play not to create the play ?

[Melorock089]

Like I said, I hope he proves it in game. I hope he proves all the naysayers wrong, I'm never against a player playing for the razorbacks. However, all this just seems like conjecture until we see it in game.

I know playing under JLS and getting injured really hurt perception, but it's time BA proves he's the QB many say he is.

Maybe I'm just not setting expectations so that I don't get disappointed, but you have to admit we always hear similiar stories every offseason/fall camp.

[poloprince]

Everybody complains about BA last year, but good gosh he was injured.  Those same "fans" literally think that last year is who BA is, so they forecast MORE of the same for this year.  All of the offense has to go through the QB like a point guard, so an injured QB decimates the offense.

Why was he playing if he was so injured?  BB is an avid advocate for player safety right? 

[BatesvilleHOG]

Why was he playing if he was so injured?  BB is an avid advocate for player safety right?

he was our only answer at QB. Nobody else was ready mentally or physically to take on the starting QB roll like Brandon. Our terrible season would have been much worse playing Derby or Austin the rest of the way. I trust Bielema and Chaney's judgement 100 fold.   

And as much it was Bielema's fault for playing a QB who's arm was numb from pain killers, the kid knew his team needed him and played anyway. He wasn't totally absurd either. It started turning it around real quick towards the end of the season.

[hoglady]

he was our only answer at QB. Nobody else was ready mentally or physically to take on the starting QB roll like Brandon. Our terrible season would have been much worse playing Derby or Austin the rest of the way. I trust Bielema and Chaney's judgement 100 fold.   

And as much it was Bielema's fault for playing a QB who's arm was numb from pain killers, the kid knew his team needed him and played anyway. He wasn't totally absurd either. It started turning it around real quick towards the end of the season.

The season couldn't have been any worse. Losing is losing. And that's what we did all year after Brandon's injury.
I don't totally trust any coach regarding playing hurt players.
They'll shoot them up and pump them with pain killers to get them on the field.

[PonderinHog]

Why was he playing if he was so injured?  BB is an avid advocate for player safety right?

Based on others' comment, there was no risk of further injury.

[razoredge178]

Everybody complains about BA last year, but good gosh he was injured.  Those same "fans" literally think that last year is who BA is, so they forecast MORE of the same for this year.  All of the offense has to go through the QB like a point guard, so an injured QB decimates the offense.

What a load. April wasn't last year. He sucked all Spring long, right through the Spring game.

I know the conversation has been beat down over and over, but I literally pray that BB has a short leash with BA this year. If we start getting a 52-0 smack down from Bama, PLEASE put someone else in. PLEASE COACH B.

[Mike Irwin]

What a load. April wasn't last year. He sucked all Spring long, right through the Spring game.

I'm curious. Are you a coach or in the media? If not the only time you could have seen Brandon Allen last spring was in the two public scrimmages and in the RW game.

He completed 80% of his passes in the first scrimmage.

His numbers weren't quite that good in the second scrimmage but he looked fine.

There were several practices where the media was allowed to watch. I would say that Allen not only looked good but very good.

The only time he struggled was in the first half of the RW game.

What you posted is a total exaggeration.

[Mike Irwin]

Based on others' comment, there was no risk of further injury.

There is always a chance of re-injury but playing would not make it worse unless he got hit in such a way that it separated the shoulder again. The doctors cleared him to play.

I saw one of those doctors today. He said Allen is fine now but he was extremely limited in his first three games back. Even in the LSU game his range was way down.

[daBoar]

........... I would say that Allen not only looked good but very good.

The only time he struggled was in the first half of the RW game.  .............../quote]
BA was so "improved" the second half, that you must question, "what was going on" in the first half.  From my perspective, as the coaches say he's improving, the Oline is improving, and the offense is improving, and they didn't recruit a juco replacement, you gotta trust them a bit.

I'm hoping we're all very pleased with BA and the offense.

[The Boar War]

Daboar-

Brandon seems to have trouble getting over adversity.  Unfortunately hes had to face adversity often in most of his games.  A drop here or there, an interception, and he has a hard time digging himself out of the hole.  Case in point when he came in the ULM game he completed a few passes and then a long touchdown pass.  After that our defense gave up a touchdown, then our receivers started dropping the ball, and all of the sudden it was nothing but three and outs.  A similar thing happened late in the Kentucky game (before it was called) and in the Samford game.

In the Spring game we saw the same principle.  He started losing confidence in his receivers and in himself.  If anything Brandon needs to be able to move past adversity and execute the offense.  Whatever happened in the second half (some say the defense backed off) might be the key to the season.  If Lunney, Chaney, or whoever can boost his confidence and keep him focused it will show up in the win column.

[PonderinHog]

There is always a chance of re-injury but playing would not make it worse unless he got hit in such a way that it separated the shoulder again. The doctors cleared him to play.

I saw one of those doctors today. He said Allen is fine now but he was extremely limited in his first three games back. Even in the LSU game his range was way down.

Thanks for clarifying that, Mike.  That explains a lot about his performance last year after the injury.  His deep ball just wasn't there.  It also seemed to me that he was under orders to get rid of the ball at the first sign of trouble.  I hope he's 100% ready to go and wish him the best of luck this year.  Lord knows we need him to be.

[hoglady]

Daboar-

Brandon seems to have trouble getting over adversity.  Unfortunately hes had to face adversity often in most of his games.  A drop here or there, an interception, and he has a hard time digging himself out of the hole.  Case in point when he came in the ULM game he completed a few passes and then a long touchdown pass.  After that our defense gave up a touchdown, then our receivers started dropping the ball, and all of the sudden it was nothing but three and outs.  A similar thing happened late in the Kentucky game (before it was called) and in the Samford game.

In the Spring game we saw the same principle.  He started losing confidence in his receivers and in himself.  If anything Brandon needs to be able to move past adversity and execute the offense.  Whatever happened in the second half (some say the defense backed off) might be the key to the season.  If Lunney, Chaney, or whoever can boost his confidence and keep him focused it will show up in the win column.

He needs a sideline mentor.
Someone to keep his confidence up and help him through the rough patches, when things go south.

[Melorock089]

He completed 80% of his passes in the first scrimmage.

His numbers weren't quite that good in the second scrimmage but he looked fine.

There were several practices where the media was allowed to watch. I would say that Allen not only looked good but very good.

Thanks Mike, that's encouraging.

[Murr]

Everybody complains about BA last year, but good gosh he was injured.  Those same "fans" literally think that last year is who BA is, so they forecast MORE of the same for this year.  All of the offense has to go through the QB like a point guard, so an injured QB decimates the offense.

The hogs had bigger issues than QB going into last season.  The injury to BA just exposed more of those flaws.  Looking forward to the improvements this year under CBB.

WPS
Beat Auburn

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

I hope im wrong but I just dont see BA being the answer. That isnt a nock on him but based on what I saw last year I think hes holding the spot down until one of the 3 takes over. Most seem to think it will be Rafe over Austin. I havent seen enough of either to say but one thing I find odd is that if coach is so worried with players health, why would he run out a kid on pain killers that didnt practice during the week. I have a hard time believing that the media wouldn't have dug this up during all that bs. I have heard that maybe game 3 if BA isnt getting itdone,who is next up. Sometimes thrown in the fire will produce better results the following year once they get some game time.

Who is this "most" you speak of..? Most of what I have read looks very similar what Mike reported...

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

The hogs had bigger issues than QB going into last season.  The injury to BA just exposed more of those flaws.  Looking forward to the improvements this year under CBB.

WPS
Beat Auburn

No doubt, and losing our number two to transfer didn't help either...

[GlassofSwine]

I think it will be BA for the next two years and I am fine with that. I have been very critical of his play from last year and at this point I am not sure how much improvement to expect. I think he will be serviceable.
   I think Austin Allen will probably be in line as a junior to take over then Peavy when he is a Junior, etc. I think Chaney want's QB's who know the system well before they start. If a lower classman does start for us, I expect it will be because he is extremely talented.

[razoredge178]

I'm curious. Are you a coach or in the media? If not the only time you could have seen Brandon Allen last spring was in the two public scrimmages and in the RW game.

He completed 80% of his passes in the first scrimmage.

His numbers weren't quite that good in the second scrimmage but he looked fine.

There were several practices where the media was allowed to watch. I would say that Allen not only looked good but very good.

The only time he struggled was in the first half of the RW game.

What you posted is a total exaggeration.

Are you serious? A total exaggeration? Your hog colored glasses are thicker than most. Comb over the news that came out of Spring practice. The best/nicest thing I heard about BA was mediocre. Not 'not only looked good but very good.' You're the first sending out that report.

But then again, he apparently 'looked not only good but very good' last Spring and stunk up the RW game.

Which he did again this year. The first half of a totally bland, should be cake-walk, RW game.

'Looked very good'.......now that's a total exaggeration.

[razorsharptusk]

Well, as reported, Bielema told Chaney you got 6 years to build this offense.  And if we are still 2 years from having the offensive line we need, then we all might as well cool our jets and take the progress as it comes and enjoy each year.

[Mike Irwin]

Are you serious? A total exaggeration? Your hog colored glasses are thicker than most. Comb over the news that came out of Spring practice. The best/nicest thing I heard about BA was mediocre. Not 'not only looked good but very good.' You're the first sending out that report.

But then again, he apparently 'looked not only good but very good' last Spring and stunk up the RW game.

Which he did again this year. The first half of a totally bland, should be cake-walk, RW game.

'Looked very good'.......now that's a total exaggeration.

I don't know what you read/heard or when you read/heard it but I know every single member of the Hog media that actually goes to the practices and watches. Not one of them thought Brandon Allen was struggling last spring until the first half of the RW game. It's worth noting that he looked fine in the 3rd quarter after the Red team offense got its butt chewed at halftime.

Maybe you were listening to some LR call in show to people who weren't there. I don't know and I don't care. All I know is Brandon Allen did not look bad the entire spring as you stated.

[Wildhog]

We're going to find out in a month vs. a bad SEC secondary.

[Mike Irwin]

He needs a sideline mentor.
Someone to keep his confidence up and help him through the rough patches, when things go south.

I would agree with that 100%. It's his biggest issue.

[Augustus]

+1, Mike.

Very solid posts in a great informative thread. Keep up the good work!

[12247]

We shall see.

[lumphog]

Thanks for the input Mike......you are priceless.

[870hogfan]

We shall see.

We all know you want him to fail. 

[razoredge178]

I don't know what you read/heard or when you read/heard it but I know every single member of the Hog media that actually goes to the practices and watches. Not one of them thought Brandon Allen was struggling last spring until the first half of the RW game. It's worth noting that he looked fine in the 3rd quarter after the Red team offense got its butt chewed at halftime.

Maybe you were listening to some LR call in show to people who weren't there. I don't know and I don't care. All I know is Brandon Allen did not look bad the entire spring as you stated.

You should finish that post like your previous one...'He not only looked good but very good.'

[racinghog]

He needs a sideline mentor.
Someone to keep his confidence up and help him through the rough patches, when things go south.

That is part of the coaches job.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

That is part of the coaches job.

But which Coach? Barry Lunney gets my vote but I believe that last year, he was in the box upstairs with Chaney.

[racinghog]

But which Coach? Barry Lunney gets my vote but I believe that last year, he was in the box upstairs with Chaney.

They use phones and head sets and are constantly talking to the QB. Good point on Lunney but he is the TE coach.

[Mike Irwin]

You should finish that post like your previous one...'He not only looked good but very good.'

That was my opinion. However, in talking to the other reporters who were watching, they all agreed that he was having a good spring. I don't recall what each one of them said. Therefore I won't put words in their mouths.

Again it is incorrect to say that BA looked bad the entire spring. I don't know any coach who said that or any reporter (who actually watched the practices & scrimmages) that said that.

[hoglady]

That is part of the coaches job.
[/quote]

But his coach isn't on the sideline, he's in the box.
I know they have headsets and stuff - just not the same as face to face.

[DeltaBoy]

We need a real QB coach like Barry Lundy had on,the Hill.

[jb11]

We need a real QB coach like Barry Lundy had on,the Hill.

You talking about Joe Fergindson

[DeltaBoy]

You talking about Joe Fergindson

YEP Joe Ferguson forgot more about being a QB than most entire staffs know .

[MuskogeeHogFan]

They use phones and head sets and are constantly talking to the QB. Good point on Lunney but he is the TE coach.

Yes, I understand how they communicate and I also realize that he is the TE Coach. I'm just saying, without going outside to hire someone, the team and Brandon, might be better served to have someone like Lunney on the sideline to talk to BA between series, rather than being up in the box.

But you have to assume that Bielema and Chaney know what they are doing.

[DeltaBoy]

I keep hearing how tough the SEC is on QB' s yet FSU ended the SEC National Championship Streak with a Freshman QB.  So is the SEC really that hard or we making excuses for our lack AN development except for Joe Ferguson time on the Hill and Bobby time on the Hill.