Cheating

[hawgsmellgud]

I know for a fact that the most successful run in our athletic programs history, (of the big three sports baseball, football, basketball) The Nolan years, we paid players. Certain players were basically on salary, getting the same amount after each game.

[CDBHawg]

We don't pay as much.  We'd recruit better if we did.

How much do we pay?

[Wildhog]

How much do we pay?

Depends on the player.  I know we've got some boosters that give those 'hundred dollar handshakes,' but our division rivals are paying four figures just to visit their campus.

[Steef]

Depends on the player.  I know we've got some boosters that give those 'hundred dollar handshakes,' but our division rivals are paying four figures just to visit their campus.

If this is even remotely true....then it's obvious the handshakes aren't working anyway...and we should stop.

We should stop on decency and general principle. But failing that (some in this thread are)...might as well stop because of common sense. Doing something over and over and expecting a different result....

[Wildhog]

If this is even remotely true....then it's obvious the handshakes aren't working anyway...and we should stop.

We should stop on decency and general principle. But failing that (some in this thread are)...might as well stop because of common sense. Doing something over and over and expecting a different result....

Either it's true or former players are lying.

And no, we need to ramp up our efforts.   

[Steef]

Either it's true or former players are lying.

And no, we need to ramp up our efforts.   

Might as well stop calling it college ball.

Call it 'minor league pro ball', like baseball has. Disassociate it altogether from the colleges. And do whatever the heck you want.

And just leave the schools out of it entirely. They can back to being schools.

Works for me.

[Wildhog]

Might as well stop calling it college ball.

Call it 'minor league pro ball', like baseball has. Disassociate it altogether from the colleges. And do whatever the heck you want.

And just leave the schools out of it entirely. They can back to being schools.

Works for me.

We already have enough disadvantages in the SEC.  This is one area where we can level the playing field a little bit.  I know you've enjoyed some very successful seasons as an Arkansas fan, but we've  flat out SUCKED for the vast majority of my life. 

[Steef]

We already have enough disadvantages in the SEC.  This is one area where we can level the playing field a little bit.  I know you've enjoyed some very successful seasons as an Arkansas fan, but we've  flat out SUCKED for the vast majority of my life.

If we have flat out sucked for most of your life, because we just aren't good at cheating...then we are just going to have to continue to suck for the REST of your life.

I personally think a HUGE part of why we've sucked for most of your life...is Houston Dale Nutt being head coach for most of your adult life...aided and abetted by Frank Broyles and John White.

It cannot be OVER stated, that TEN YEARS of a bad coach....is fundamental failure by the AD. It is also half a generation. A lasting impact on the psyche of a fanbase.

That has nothing to do with cheating.

[Hoggish1]

The NCAA is now in way over their heads!

[rljjr]

Your absurd comparisons have zero relation to football recruiting.  You are talking about crimes with victims.  Recruiting "violations" is a victimless crime.   It's not even a crime actually.  The things you bring up are crimes. Its apples and oranges.

You're actually exploiting poor kids (for the most part) and teaching them bad life lessons about zero accountability.

[Wildhog]

You're actually exploiting poor kids (for the most part) and teaching them bad life lessons about zero accountability.

LMAO

[Country Stylz]

Absolutely. It's humorous how many seem to think this is an all-or-nothing scenario.......that Arkansas is running a pure, pristine, every single rule followed program while it's all those evil other teams doing the bad stuff.

I have asked in the past, only half jokingly, if the question should  be "Should the UA cheat" or "Should the UA  cheat better"


Go Hogs!

You have to cheat to sign 3 stars? I think if we were cheating our recruiting classes would be in the top 20 instead of top 40.

[hawgbawb]

Change the rules. CFB schollies should include full rides plus a generous monthly allowance.

The NCAA should pay for anti-cheating TV spots. 

Am I the only one that can't stand losing a tennis match to a guy that cheats on the line calls or a poker player that has cards up his sleeve?   Folks like that usually eventually get what's coming to them. Word gets out. Nobody respects them.

[thebignasty]

So...it's okay to steal...if there's never any risk of being caught?

How about murder? Is that okay if you always get away with it?

Are you an elected official? Because you talk like one.

Is the NCAA some purveyor of moral authority?

The entire institution is a morally bankrupt ethically dubious sham. If paying someone for generating revenue or entertainment is 'cheating' which end of the operation has the moral problem?


Probably an unpopular thought, but I feel no need to uphold the ncaas stupid rules that they don't even care enough about to enforce.

[Choctaw Hog]

Whatever it takes to compete with our peers.  That's a fluid answer. 

It's a sad testament to your character, or lack thereof, that you are willing for coaches, fans, teachers, administrators, etc. to do "whatever it takes" to "compete" with Arkansas' peers. 

Cheat, lie, steal, are all okay with you as long as you can thump your chest over the accomplishments of others.  Living vicariously through others, what a pathetic life you must lead. 

[thebignasty]

LMAO

Thankfully we have the ncaa to prevent the exploitation of kids.

[Hawkinsas]

I think every major program pays their current players, by doing this you won't gain an advantage over your competitors.  Paying recruits is how you gain an advantage,  and that's the part that Arkansas doesn't seem to be very good at.  Arkansas was in the bidding war for Albert Means.  It was also rumored that an Arkansas booster was set to make a large contribution to the high School that DGB's foster dad coached at. I always wondered if the success Tennessee had down in Warren had something to do with the new Adidas uniforms they got at the time.

Imo the best cheaters aren't the larger corporate boosters like Arkansas has, but the small successful business owners who want to be close to the program.

[Music City Hog]

It's a sad testament to your character, or lack thereof, that you are willing for coaches, fans, teachers, administrators, etc. to do "whatever it takes" to "compete" with Arkansas' peers. 

Cheat, lie, steal, are all okay with you as long as you can thump your chest over the accomplishments of others.  Living vicariously through others, what a pathetic life you must lead. 

Hey there Choctaw!  I missed you!

[redeye]

I think every major program pays their current players, by doing this you won't gain an advantage over your competitors.  Paying recruits is how you gain an advantage,  and that's the part that Arkansas doesn't seem to be very good at.  Arkansas was in the bidding war for Albert Means.  It was also rumored that an Arkansas booster was set to make a large contribution to the high School that DGB's foster dad coached at. I always wondered if the success Tennessee had down in Warren had something to do with the new Adidas uniforms they got at the time.

Imo the best cheaters aren't the larger corporate boosters like Arkansas has, but the small successful business owners who want to be close to the program.

I agree that it's the small business owners.  It's funny listening to all the cries for cheating around here, when the very people making the cries could be doing it themselves.  If you believe in cheating, then no one is stopping you; at least until you get caught at it.  So, you guys crying about us not cheating enough, either do something about it or shut up.

I'll assume you're accusations with Means and DGB are hearsay, since you didn't provide any proof.  So let me point out that neither of them chose Arkansas.

When has Arkansas ever signed a great player rumored to be the benefactor of a bidding war?  I can't think of any, but as much as our fans throw around rumors of Arkansas cheating, you'd think we'd hear of a success story here and there.

[redeye]

Is the NCAA some purveyor of moral authority?

The entire institution is a morally bankrupt ethically dubious sham. If paying someone for generating revenue or entertainment is 'cheating' which end of the operation has the moral problem?


Probably an unpopular thought, but I feel no need to uphold the ncaas stupid rules that they don't even care enough about to enforce.

NCAA = member's school presidents.  Member school presidents create rules for them to play by.  Some schools break those rules and that is cheating.  You can make excuses all day, but it's cheating by definition.

I think you have other worthy arguments, but they don't apply to the issue of cheating.  My solution would be for Congress to limit how much schools can profit off games.  If they limited it enough, there wouldn't be money to pay players.  I don't expect that to happen, but I'd be fine with it.

[wholehog92]

You're actually exploiting poor kids (for the most part) and teaching them bad life lessons about zero accountability.

Chuckles.  I sure wish someone would have exploited me with hundred dollar handshakes and taken care of my cost to attend school and gave me the opportunity to show off my talents for NFL scouts.  Even at that, if I was even average at school, I had a job for life with U of A football letterman on my resume.  Exploited indeed.  I guess I wasn't poor enough for that kind of exploitation.  I bet Johnny Manziel feels just awful after all that exploitation.  How did that happen?  He wasn't poor.  Frazier poor?  Yeah OK.  Zimba wasn't very damn poor either.  Somehow the money enticed Frazier and it probably didn't hurt Lee's feelings either.

Just when I think I've heard it all.  If you accept the premise, coaches give a crap about your financial status, then you have to believe an amazing opportunity thousands try for and few get is exploitation.

[Hawkinsas]

I'll assume you're accusations with Means and DGB are hearsay, since you didn't provide any proof.  So let me point out that neither of them chose Arkansas.

http://www.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Dorial-Green-Beckham-inside-the-chase-for-nations-top-recruit-020112?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

At the very bottom DGB's father tell's about a message he received from an Arkansas booster.   

The stuff about Albert Means was in a book called Bragging Rights: A Season Inside The SEC.  It's been a long time since I read it, but it goes into detail about the recruitment of Means and how everyone was told up front it was gonna cost for his services. Not only that, but schools would even have to pay for a copy of his highlight video. Arkansas was in it until the very end for Means, I don't remember if he ever made an official visit or not. Arkansas didn't get Means, but they did get a commitment from his teammate Lenard "Taco" Burress. I think that was his name. He switched to Kentucky on signing day and a few years later they were under investigation for paying 10 or 20k for his services.

The key to recruiting per Ed Orgeron, is to find out who the decision maker is and recruit that person not the kid.  That person usually has a price.

[JansterZ71]

NCAA = member's school presidents.  Member school presidents create rules for them to play by.  Some schools break those rules and that is cheating.  You can make excuses all day, but it's cheating by definition.

I think you have other worthy arguments, but they don't apply to the issue of cheating.  My solution would be for Congress to limit how much schools can profit off games.  If they limited it enough, there wouldn't be money to pay players.  I don't expect that to happen, but I'd be fine with it.

We aren't Russia

[Porkahontas]

So here's my simple issue...

Some of you want our head coach fired like...yesterday. Can't go 0-8 in the SEC, want to win big, want to compete against our West rivals.

Y'all also don't want to do whatever it takes (you know, what those SEC West rivals are doing blatantly these days) to lock up top recruits.

You can't have one without the other. If I am a top WR in this state and "conference rival A" offers up a decent 5-figure amount for my signature on an LOI and my home state school offered up "family atmosphere" and "commitment to home state", about 80-90% of kids are taking the cash.

Here is a realistic question. Which SEC schools do you guys feel are blatantly cheating, and which are recruiting w/o just rolling in the cess pool of dirty recruiting? Who is doing it pretty much clean and who is breaking and bending every rule imaginable?

[Steef]

So here's my simple issue...

Some of you want our head coach fired like...yesterday. Can't go 0-8 in the SEC, want to win big, want to compete against our West rivals.

Y'all also don't want to do whatever it takes (you know, what those SEC West rivals are doing blatantly these days) to lock up top recruits.

You can't have one without the other. If I am a top WR in this state and "conference rival A" offers up a decent 5-figure amount for my signature on an LOI and my home state school offered up "family atmosphere" and "commitment to home state", about 80-90% of kids are taking the cash.

Here is a realistic question. Which SEC schools do you guys feel are blatantly cheating, and which are recruiting w/o just rolling in the cess pool of dirty recruiting? Who is doing it pretty much clean and who is breaking and bending every rule imaginable?

The people who have been calling for Bret's head...after just one year...are for the most part NOT the same people who say they don't want to cheat.

[Tusks]

This thread is a perfect microcosm of why the hogs will never have a 'cheating' or recruiting machine like the other big 6 or 7 of the SEC.

If you don't think there isn't a systematic program of cheating in the SEC, well I can't help you.

This has nothing to do with BB, this is a thread about the state of SEC recruiting and the recruiting bolder the hogs are pushing uphill.

One way to level the playing field is to put together a 'friends of the program' and find ways to to do what the OTHER schools the hogs are competing against are doing.

Will it happen, no, read the thread.  Should it happen, that's for each poster to opine about.

Can't some of you have a theoretical discussion without burning down the house?

[redeye]

http://www.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Dorial-Green-Beckham-inside-the-chase-for-nations-top-recruit-020112?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

At the very bottom DGB's father tell's about a message he received from an Arkansas booster.   

The stuff about Albert Means was in a book called Bragging Rights: A Season Inside The SEC.  It's been a long time since I read it, but it goes into detail about the recruitment of Means and how everyone was told up front it was gonna cost for his services. Not only that, but schools would even have to pay for a copy of his highlight video. Arkansas was in it until the very end for Means, I don't remember if he ever made an official visit or not. Arkansas didn't get Means, but they did get a commitment from his teammate Lenard "Taco" Burress. I think that was his name. He switched to Kentucky on signing day and a few years later they were under investigation for paying 10 or 20k for his services.

The key to recruiting per Ed Orgeron, is to find out who the decision maker is and recruit that person not the kid.  That person usually has a price.

Yea, I remember that with DGB.  Read it again and it was his mother, who also said they were never offered anything illegal.  Taco Burress is another example of a player Arkansas didn't get, so again I have to ask where are the players we DID get who we know accepted money?

[redeye]

We aren't Russia

Thank you for the simplistic, inapplicable answer.

[Porkahontas]

Yea, I remember that with DGB.  Read it again and it was his mother, who also said they were never offered anything illegal.  Taco Burress is another example of a player Arkansas didn't get, so again I have to ask where are the players we DID get who we know accepted money?

By my best estimation, there have been kids in the past who were paid to come to Arkansas and to not go to a conference rival. Likely reason, conference rival offered the kid cash to go there and we simply matched it or upped the ante a little bit.

For the most part, I believe we do most things above the board. Probably push a few rules, may have a few family members with jobs nearby paying more than they should, but not blatantly buying talent to come to Arkansas to the extent we see out of state with conference rivals.

All I've learned in the past, when a kid has a final five that includes a few certain school, he's on the take to the highest bidder. If Kentucky is offering you in basketball, you're not gonna beat them out for the kid unless you play the game they are playing. Same with a couple rivals in football.

It's all kept hush hush but if you read between the lines sometimes with recruits and who is recruiting them, you realize fast it isn't about how our coaching staff is recruiting a kid, it's about what's being offered elsewhere and if we have people close to the program who can/will match those offers.

[southeasthog]

Yea, I remember that with DGB.  Read it again and it was his mother, who also said they were never offered anything illegal.  Taco Burress is another example of a player Arkansas didn't get, so again I have to ask where are the players we DID get who we know accepted money?

Let me spin this to basketball. Did Michigan lose on their investment with Chris Webber after he threw the National Championship game. I knew it when it happened and then his involvement with Ed Martin surfaced. Not posting this at you redeye, just throwing it out there.

[Hoggish1]

Not a chance!

But, let's call a spade a spade:  Just pay every player above or below the table.  The one with the deepest pockets wins! 

Anybody have a clue what that would mean?

[Hoggish1]

Exactly.  I'm not advocating murder, theft, or stealing from your boss's business.  Bending recruiting rules as much as possible is not a crime.  You don't get arrested.  You don't go to jail.  There is no victim. 

I know for a fact that major cheating is happening because my Ole Miss buddy shows me everything.  I've seen him open the safe and hand me stacks of cash he was delivering to an assistant coach the next day. 

Perhaps we are doing this already, but something tells me we aren't to the level of our SEC brethren.  I'm simply suggesting we get on the game or get accustomed to being SEC bottom feeders.

Why aren't you turning your buddy in?  LMAO!

[Hoggish1]

Certain programs can cheat... 90% of the others can not..... That's the way the NCAA wants it.

Whoa... The motha of all conspiracies!  But, wait...!

[Hoggish1]

There you go. Problem solved.  You should just become an Ole Miss fan since you want to cheat so bad.  Then you can go infect the Ole Miss boards with your negativity and weak character.

But, on the Old Piss bored he would have normal character....

[Hoggish1]

This.

I'd also add that university presidents are quivering in the corner doing nothing of substance at a time when they should be most visible.

LMAO because the U-presidents are the most cowardly of the bunch.  But I agree, they should be doing good stuff...

[Hoggish1]

Whatever it takes, right?

Why not just pay the refs, it'd probably be cheaper.

Can't do that, because the SEC is already doing it and that would really fly up the butts of the PTB...

[Hoggish1]

If we have flat out sucked for most of your life, because we just aren't good at cheating...then we are just going to have to continue to suck for the REST of your life.

I personally think a HUGE part of why we've sucked for most of your life...is Houston Dale Nutt being head coach for most of your adult life...aided and abetted by Frank Broyles and John White.

It cannot be OVER stated, that TEN YEARS of a bad coach....is fundamental failure by the AD. It is also half a generation. A lasting impact on the psyche of a fanbase.

That has nothing to do with cheating.

Bomb Shell.  Thank you!

[Hoggish1]

You have to cheat to sign 3 stars? I think if we were cheating our recruiting classes would be in the top 20 instead of top 40.

If you do the math, we are in the top 15, right now...

[Hoggish1]

My solution would be for Congress to limit how much schools can profit off games.

Congress? Rules?  Oh, sorry, for a minute there, I thought I was dreaming...

[JansterZ71]

If you do the math, we are in the top 15, right now...

According to rivals Arkansas is #32

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Music City Hog]

If you do the math, we are in the top 15, right now...

Huh?

[redeye]

Not a chance!

But, let's call a spade a spade:  Just pay every player above or below the table.  The one with the deepest pockets wins! 

Anybody have a clue what that would mean?

Professional football

[Tusks]

It's more like AA or AAA football.  If you want to call it professional, you have to add another zero or two to the equation.

Professional football

[Ball Hawk]

Might as well stop calling it college ball.

Call it 'minor league pro ball', like baseball has. Disassociate it altogether from the colleges. And do whatever the heck you want.

And just leave the schools out of it entirely. They can back to being schools.

Works for me.

Dude....you need to just stop. This whole "I don't wanna cheat to win" crap is annoying. Arkansas pays their players just like every other school in the country does.

You want to know how Ole Miss is getting those big time kids?? They pay anywhere from 1500 to 3k for a VISIT from big time players. I know this for a 100% fact. I don't know what the other SEC schools pay for visits but I'm sure it's not this good.