UALR / UCLA

[Sweet Feet]

I'm not sure how bad a good ASU team hurts a weak U of A team but I guess a good UALR team could possibly have an impact on people not making the long drive to NW Arkansas to see a team having problems finding a win.

Did a strong tulsa team in 1996 impact OU after they beat them? Nope OU ended up winnin a title in 2000. Or Memphis beating tennessee in 97? Nope tenn won in 1998. U catch my drift? Teams have their ups and downs but i doubt the whole state shift to an mid major when the major program is weak or down.

[chitwnhog]

How much money has tulsa taken away from OU? Ucf and usf from fla and fsu? Memphis from tennessee? Uab from bama?  So Miss from ole miss? Marshall from WVU? I think the concern of a smaller yet successful program within state borders is really more of an overrated and irrational arkansan fad. No matter how good they would do along with asu or uca, UA is still established enough to flourish and be the states team, but too many fans dont believe that or have that confidence in their program.

Fair enough buddy...you keep on pluggin...you're not gonna get there but I'm pullin' for ya.

[Sweet Feet]

Fair enough buddy...you keep on pluggin...you're not gonna get there but I'm pullin' for ya.

Never say never  but i am hoping

[LZH]

Anyone else get the idea that if UALR ever had any intentions of re-starting their football team that Frank Broyles would have been first in line with a crowbar?

[chitwnhog]

Anyone else get the idea that if UALR ever had any intentions of re-starting their football team that Frank Broyles would have been first in line with a crowbar?

Yep

[WashUhog6]

Worked? Arkansas is somewhat mediocre with a terrible bowl record among major programs. They havent won an SEC title yet and have about 5 bowl wins in the past 30 years. Everyone who has done as much, if not better than arkansas all have instate teams they play every year. It wasn the idea of Broyles insecure thinking to avoid instate competition, because if arkansas was established as they were, they wouldn have to worry about a mid major or D2 team stealing the spotlight. It was because they were in a conference where texas was the only competition

Arkansas has the 15th most bowl appearances all time, and even with our abysmal record, we're still 31st in bowl wins--ahead of programs like Stanford, Oregon, South Carolina, and Wisconsin. We have the 21st most wins among all college football programs, with a winning percentage that puts us at 29th among teams that have played at least 600 games at the 1-A/FBS level (seemingly random cutoff is used to remove Boise State, who joined the current FBS in 1996, and South Alabama). Among current FBS programs, we're 1 of only 26 programs that have a recognized national championship by College Football Data Warehouse since 1960.

We're a top 25 all time program among every service that has done those rankings. College Football Data Warehouse uses a points system to rank its top programs based on a certain time period. In the last 50 years, it ranks Arkansas 19. It drops to 28 in the last 20 years, but when you move the metric up to the last 15, 10, and 5 years Arkansas' rank is 22, 22, and 19 (yes, even with the terrible 2012-2013), respectively. Arkansas is tied for 19th among longstanding FBS teams with Texas A&M, Washington, Arizona State, and TCU for the most 10 win seasons of all time at 12. Another College Football Data Warehouse ranking worth mentioning: Arkansas is 9th among teams in the 1960s, 11th in the 1970s, 30th in the 1980s, 50th in the 90s (bleh), and 17th in the 2000s.

In Arkansas' time in the SWC, between 1925 and 1991, only Texas won more conference titles. And yeah, we haven't exactly torn it up since we entered the SEC. But in our time in the conference only 6 of the current 14 teams have won SEC titles (Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, LSU), and out of the 4 who have gone without a win, Arkansas leads with 3 appearances (South Carolina, Missouri, and Mississippi State all have 1).

And then there's the perennial revenue generation that has Arkansas among the richest in college athletics.

You can keep hating all you want, but that doesn't change the fact, supported by multiple objective measures, that Frank Broyles' work to unite the state behind the Razorbacks helped make Arkansas successful.

[hoglady]

Nice job!  My Dad was on that Little Rose Bowl team in 1949.  Then, he was called back into service to fight in the Korean War!   

Small world.
My Dad played running back for them in the early 50's.
I bet playing on that undefeated team was a real thrill for your Dad.

[hoglady]

Verizon is in NLR, thus, not in LR.

Verizon is a Pulaski County facility - so it doesn't much matter which city it's in. It was approved by county wide voters and paid for with county tax dollars.

[chitwnhog]

Verizon is a Pulaski County facility - so it doesn't much matter which city it's in. It was approved by county wide voters and paid for with county tax dollars.

Now...there ya go bringing logic and facts to Hogville.

[hoglady]

Anyone else get the idea that if UALR ever had any intentions of re-starting their football team that Frank Broyles would have been first in line with a crowbar?

You're right - no way that could have happened when Broyles was in charge.
Plus it wasn't that long ago that UofA played more home games at WMS in LR than they did in Fayetteville.

[Sweet Feet]

Arkansas has the 15th most bowl appearances all time, and even with our abysmal record, we're still 31st in bowl wins--ahead of programs like Stanford, Oregon, South Carolina, and Wisconsin. We have the 18th most wins among all college football programs, with a winning percentage that puts us at 30th. Among current FBS programs, we're 1 of only 26 programs that have a recognized national championship by College Football Data Warehouse. We're a top 25 all time program among every service that has done those rankings.

Yeah, we haven't exactly torn it up since we entered the SEC. But in our time in the conference only 6 of the current 14 teams have won SEC titles (Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, LSU), and out of the 4 who have gone without a win, Arkansas leads with 3 appearances (South Carolina, Missouri, and Mississippi State all have 1).

And then there's the perennial revenue generation that has Arkansas among the richest in college athletics.

You can keep hating all you want, but that doesn't change the fact, supported by multiple objective measures, that Frank Broyles' work to unite the state behind the Razorbacks helped make Arkansas successful.

arkansas has played in more bowl games than the teams you just mentioned. Of course its likely they have more wins. Even then, oregon is only one bowl win from tying and stanford amd wisconsin is 2 bowl wins away. If you really wana access the bowl thing, look at the win percentage. Arkansas has one of lowest win percentage among bcs teams and teams with 10+ bowl appearances. Doesnt scream top 25 program to me. The wins in the season are cool, but winning the games when it counts is what separates them from the bunch. Arkansas is tied 5th for most bowl losses, with bama, ohio state, mich, nebraska, and texas being in the category. Whats the difference? All have way more titles and played in more bowl games, yet they still have a better bowl win percentage and only 1 or 2 more losses than arkansas.

The revenue aspect is good, but has it truely gotten arkansas where it wanted to be in the past few decades? Sometimes i wonder if they overfocus on getting money than actual success.

And its not hating, its just keeping it real. Broyles' scary way of thinking didn do that much for arkansas as a program. Making full effort to keep down and avoid other schools as an objective measure to have the razorbacks as the states team was just a way of him sayn they arent estabilished as everyone thinks they are. Minus track and field, how many national titles has arkansas won under broyles? Just 2... In the case of basketball, i find it funny that the NIT game asu was murdering arkansas on their own court didn seem to halt their future success as they won 7 years later. I would respect broyles more if his method of keeping down schools and turning this state in a hog state was by brutally beating them on the field like true programs do to prove a point like a true champion and competitor, which no doubt he could have done. But instead he pussied away from that.

[Sweet Feet]

Small world.
My Dad played running back for them in the early 50's.
I bet playing on that undefeated team was a real thrill for your Dad.

Your dad played? Thats so cool. Where did they play games?

[chitwnhog]

arkansas has played in more bowl games than the teams you just mentioned. Of course its likely they have more wins. Even then, oregon is only one bowl win from tying and stanford amd wisconsin is 2 bowl wins away. If you really wana access the bowl thing, look at the win percentage. Arkansas has one of lowest win percentage among bcs teams and teams with 10+ bowl appearances. Doesnt scream top 25 program to me. The wins in the season are cool, but winning the games when it counts is what separates them from the bunch. Arkansas is tied 5th for most bowl losses, with bama, ohio state, mich, nebraska, and texas being in the category. Whats the difference? All have way more titles and played in more bowl games, yet they still have a better bowl win percentage and only 1 or 2 more losses than arkansas.

The revenue aspect is good, but has it truely gotten arkansas where it wanted to be in the past few decades? Sometimes i wonder if they overfocus on getting money than actual success.

And its not hating, its just keeping it real. Broyles' scary way of thinking didn do that much for arkansas as a program. Making full effort to keep down and avoid other schools as an objective measure to have the razorbacks as the states team was just a way of him sayn they arent estabilished as everyone thinks they are. Minus track and field, how many national titles has arkansas won under broyles? Just 2... In the case of basketball, i find it funny that the NIT game asu was murdering arkansas on their own court didn seem to halt their future success as they won 7 years later. I would respect broyles more if his method of keeping down schools and turning this state in a hog state was by brutally beating them on the field like true programs do to prove a point like a true champion and competitor, which no doubt he could have done. But instead he pussied away from that.

Yeah...you keep it real there Sweet Meat...

[Sweet Feet]

Yeah...you keep it real there Sweet Meat...

i know

[WashUhog6]

arkansas has played in more bowl games than the teams you just mentioned. Of course its likely they have more wins. Even then, oregon is only one bowl win from tying and stanford amd wisconsin is 2 bowl wins away. If you really wana access the bowl thing, look at the win percentage. Arkansas has one of lowest win percentage among bcs teams and teams with 10+ bowl appearances. Doesnt scream top 25 program to me. The wins in the season are cool, but winning the games when it counts is what separates them from the bunch. Arkansas is tied 5th for most bowl losses, with bama, ohio state, mich, nebraska, and texas being in the category. Whats the difference? All have way more titles and played in more bowl games, yet they still have a better bowl win percentage and only 1 or 2 more losses than arkansas.

The revenue aspect is good, but has it truely gotten arkansas where it wanted to be in the past few decades? Sometimes i wonder if they overfocus on getting money than actual success.

I love how you only addressed the bowl portion of my post. Of course our high number of appearances contributes to our win numbers, but you totally disregard the fact that Arkansas earning those bowl appearances is what allowed us that many opportunities to win whereas those programs behind us in bowl wins have not. I'm not defending our bowl record because it is horrendous, and I don't think you'll ever seen an Arkansas fan say that it's acceptable. The stats I posted aren't up for debate, however, as those are objective, factual representations of what Arkansas has done in regards to the post season.

Did you avoid those other stats because they don't fit your argument? Of course the postseason is important, and of course we're behind programs like Texas, Ohio State, Nebraska, and Alabama--no one has argued the contrary.

As far as revenue getting Arkansas where it wants to be? In the 60s and 70s the answer is an emphatic yes As for the 80s, the answer to that is more complex because of a declining conference and poor bowl showings but even so we had 6 top 25 finishes, with 5 of those in the top 15. For those reasons, I believe that the answer is once again, yes. The 1990s were miserable, and the answer is no. 2000-present day? I'd say that's an easy yes. We faced a lot of turmoil because of the Nutt debacles, but we appeared in two SEC title games, had a two time Heisman runner up, three ten win seasons (one 11 win season), seven seasons with at least eight wins, one BCS appearance--and it can be argued that the 2012 Cotton Bowl was a major bowl game--and finally, a top 5 finish. Like I said, by the College Football Data Warehouse metric, we're the 17th best program of 2001-2010, and 19th in the last 5 years. That revenue has also allowed us to hire two highly successful coaches, and has allowed us to improve our facilities immensely. The answer therefore has to be yes.

Arkansas has a very successful, but not elite, football program whether you like it or not. The numbers support that no matter how hard you try to rationalize it.

[Sweet Feet]

I love how you only addressed the bowl portion of my post. Of course our high number of appearances contributes to our win numbers, but you totally disregard the fact that Arkansas earning those bowl appearances is what allowed us that many opportunities to win whereas those programs behind us in bowl wins have not. I'm not defending our bowl record because it is horrendous, and I don't think you'll ever seen an Arkansas fan say that it's acceptable. The stats I posted aren't up for debate, however, as those are objective, factual representations of what Arkansas has done in regards to the post season.

Did you avoid those other stats because they don't fit your argument? Of course the postseason is important, and of course we're behind programs like Texas, Ohio State, Nebraska, and Alabama--no one has argued the contrary.

Arkansas has a very successful, but not elite, football program whether you like it or not. The numbers support that no matter how hard you try to rationalize it.

avoid which stats? I covered everything.

[WashUhog6]

avoid which stats? I covered everything.

The posts were updated. But even in the original version in which you replied to, the only mention you gave to the rankings of all time wins, all time winning percentage, national championship, and division championships was "the wins in the season are cool."

[ricepig]

Verizon is a Pulaski County facility - so it doesn't much matter which city it's in. It was approved by county wide voters and paid for with county tax dollars.

And DSP?

[ricepig]

UALR would offer options to those wanting to stay in LR

Arkansas Baptist offers those options, how many are staying?

[Inhogswetrust]

I could picture UALR being a SMU style program. Small program, entertaining, fun and easy on a Sat. for LR area folks that don't want to make the Fville trek.

So you are saying they are too lazy or can't afford to drive to Conway I guess.......................................

[Sweet Feet]

The posts were updated. But even in the original version in which you replied to, the only mention you gave to the rankings of all time wins, all time winning percentage, national championship, and division championships was "the wins in the season are cool."

thats because i was already familiar with the wins, championships, etc. or because you are only ranked by some kind of site. They were good in the season and bad in bowls. Put those two together, you get slighty above mediocre.

As far as everything goes, you got numbers to say that what broyles did helped arkansas to be successful, but at the same time i got numbers that shows that it simply didn. They would have still got the money in the SEC and in the SWC. The notion that a mid major or another small school ruining the big school financially and success wise is really pathetic. They would have had the same success even if ualr had a team or if they played everyone in this state. And its been empirically proven by every team. Even Teams like wvu and ole miss

[ricepig]

thats because i was already familiar with the wins, championships, etc. or because you are only ranked by some kind of site. They were good in the season and bad in bowls. Put those two together, you get slighty above mediocre.

As far as everything goes, you got numbers to say that what broyles did helped arkansas to be successful, but at the same time i got numbers that shows that it simply didn. They would have still got the money in the SEC and in the SWC. The notion that a mid major or another small school ruining the big school financially and success wise is really pathetic. They would have had the same success even if ualr had a team or if they played everyone in this state. And its been empirically proven by every team. Even Teams like wvu and ole miss

No, the only thing you proved was that it worked in those states, that's all.

[hoglady]

Your dad played? Thats so cool. Where did they play games?

I honestly have no idea.
I'll ask my aunt and see if she remembers. My Dad passed away some years back or I'd get the scoop from him.

[hoglady]

And DSP?

Lost me on that one.

[ricepig]

Lost me on that one.

Dickey Stephens Park

[Sweet Feet]

No, the only thing you proved was that it worked in those states, that's all.

yeah every single state. showing that it was empirically useless for broyles to try to make the state a razorback state by avoiding the instate teams and trying to keep them down. If they were established like they should be, that wouldn be a problem

[ricepig]

yeah every single state. showing that it was empirically useless for broyles to try to make the state a razorback state by avoiding the instate teams and trying to keep them down. If they were established like they should be, that wouldn be a problem

Seems to me that only red pup fans care, I think we're fine.

[hoglady]

Dickey Stephens Park

Voted on by North Little Rock voters.
Big miss by Little Rock leaders on that one.
But I'm glad it's where it is. It is a fantastic facility with an absolutely beautiful location on the river. The downtown area of Little Rock and North Little Rock is booming. Little Rock is starting revitalization of Main Street, the River Market is booming. Main Street is NLR is doing pretty good. Robinson Auditorium is starting renovation and there will be a new Broadway Bridge. ( which will be a major headache and traffic problem while construction is underway ).
In the downtown area, LR and NLR feed off of each other.

[Sweet Feet]

Seems to me that only red pup fans care, I think we're fine.

this isnt even about what asu fans think. Im just using empirical facts to show the tactics broyles used was scary and pointless. The hogs would be doing the same thing they are doing now even if ualr had a team or if they played instate teams. Anybody who thinks otherwise obviously dont truely believe arkansas is as good and established as they say they are.

[ricepig]

this isnt even about what asu fans think. Im just using empirical facts to show the tactics broyles used was scary and pointless. The hogs would be doing the same thing they are doing now even if ualr had a team or if they played instate teams. Anybody who thinks otherwise obviously dont truely believe arkansas is as good and established as they say they are.

Those states and Arkansas only have football in common, no matter how hard you try to pigeon hole your facts as such.

[ricepig]

Voted on by North Little Rock voters.
Big miss by Little Rock leaders on that one.
But I'm glad it's where it is. It is a fantastic facility with an absolutely beautiful location on the river. The downtown area of Little Rock and North Little Rock is booming. Little Rock is starting revitalization of Main Street, the River Market is booming. Main Street is NLR is doing pretty good. Robinson Auditorium is starting renovation and there will be a new Broadway Bridge. ( which will be a major headache and traffic problem while construction is underway ).
In the downtown area, LR and NLR feed off of each other.

So, do you truthfully think LR/NLR could/would support a football team at UALR? They don't support/fund the teams they have now, it's a pipe dream.

[Sweet Feet]

Those states and Arkansas only have football in common, no matter how hard you try to pigeon hole your facts as such.

Just like the states among themselves have football in common. Give it up. U cant refute my points

[twistitup]

UALR deserves a football team

[ricepig]

Just like the states among themselves have football in common. Give it up. U cant refute my points

Just like you can't prove it would happen in Arkansas, you can show data that suggests it would, but can't prove 100% that it would. It doesn't really matter, you can't rewrite history, it's fine the way it is.

[ricepig]

UALR deserves a football team

Then they need to start one, no one's stopping them.

[chitwnhog]

Then they need to start one, no one's stopping them.

The UofA board would have to approve such a move and I just don't see that happening.

[WashUhog6]

Arguing with an ASU fan is pointless--they stick to what's useful to them, and ignore what makes them wrong even if you throw out objective, numerical facts. For a fan base that is nearly all alumni, the only skill they seem to have picked up from the school is rationalization. I'm really shocked that some of these guys are considered "college educated."

[twistitup]

Arguing with an ASU fan is pointless--they stick to what's useful to them, and ignore what makes them wrong even if you throw out objective, numerical facts. For a fan base that is nearly all alumni, the only skill they seem to have picked up from the school is rationalization. I'm really shocked that some of these guys are considered "college educated."

Who is the ASU fan? Aren't we talking UALR?

[Ironhawg]

August 1st just cannot get here soon enough!

[Inhogswetrust]

August 1st just cannot get here soon enough!

Unfortunately it will probably get crazier and crazier every day until then.

[Sweet Feet]

Arguing with an ASU fan is pointless--they stick to what's useful to them, and ignore what makes them wrong even if you throw out objective, numerical facts. For a fan base that is nearly all alumni, the only skill they seem to have picked up from the school is rationalization. I'm really shocked that some of these guys are considered "college educated."

WTH you just described most hog fans on here. Show me where i threw out the numerical facts. I stated that i agreed with what facts u brought. All i did was put in my facts and numbers to counter it and you had a hard time refuting that like the rest of everyone else, which is typical of a hog fan when you through facts and logic at them that they cant refute and end up pulling an ad homimen comment out of defeat. So good job describing the fanbase on here

[LZH]

Unfortunately it will probably get crazier and crazier every day until then.

I actually thought the "Alex Collins' hair weighs five pounds" was quite informative.

[chitwnhog]

I actually thought the "Alex Collins' hair weighs five pounds" was quite informative.

Same here!

[WashUhog6]

Who is the ASU fan? Aren't we talking UALR?

Sweet Feet's posting history suggests he's an ASU fan. And I can only guess as to why his posts are abundant in this thread, but he doesn't like the notion that Frank Broyles' suppressing of other in-state schools--initially mentioned in reference to UALR--helped make Arkansas successful. Of course his being an ASU fan is a big motivating factor behind his initial claim of "Worked? Arkansas is somewhat mediocre..." You see, his initial claim was two-fold: the first is that Arkansas isn't that successful (which I showed to be wrong using those pesky statistics, and he proceeded to accept the only stat that supported his argument while dismissing those that do not), and the second being that we didn't have to engage in our efforts to suppress the other in-state schools. The numbers speak for themselves in regards to the first claim, while the second can be debated.

And that's why I mentioned ASU.

[chitwnhog]

Sweet Feet's posting history suggests he's an ASU fan. And I can only guess as to why his posts are abundant in this thread, but he doesn't like the notion that Frank Broyles' suppressing of other in-state schools--initially mentioned in reference to UALR--helped make Arkansas successful. Of course his being an ASU fan is a big motivating factor behind his initial claim of "Worked? Arkansas is somewhat mediocre..." You see, his initial claim was two-fold: the first is that Arkansas isn't that successful (which I showed to be wrong using those pesky statistics, and he proceeded to accept the only stat that supported his argument while dismissing those that do not), and the second being that we didn't have to engage in our efforts to suppress the other in-state schools. The numbers speak for themselves in regards to the first claim, while the second can be debated.

And that's why I mentioned ASU.

And yet he claims to have brought empirical evidence to prove his point that JFB did not have to suppress football at other state schools and that in doing this he failed. IMHO Sweet Meat has failed.

[Sweet Feet]

And yet he claims to have brought empirical evidence to prove his point that JFB did not have to suppress football at other state schools and that in doing this he failed. IMHO Sweet Meat has failed.

sweet meat? Lol do better

[chitwnhog]

sweet meat? Lol do better

Meh...no thanks.

[Pigsear]

I love it when the step children get stirred up. GO HOGS!

[hoglady]

So, do you truthfully think LR/NLR could/would support a football team at UALR? They don't support/fund the teams they have now, it's a pipe dream.

UALR basketball draws good when they're winning.
The Travelers have good fan support.
I don't know where you get that LR/NLR doesn't support their programs.
NLR is building a new stadium - they have fantastic fan support.
LR Public schools supports basketball, but not football.
Barton set record attendance for the state basketball tourney.
SEC women's tourney draws great at Verizon and NCAA regional was a huge success.

The problem with UALR football - if they don't go head to head with the Razorbacks they would get some support.
But on a Saturday afternoon you'd be hard pressed to get folks out to watch UALR instead of the Hogs.

[chitwnhog]

UALR basketball draws good when they're winning.
The Travelers have good fan support.
I don't know where you get that LR/NLR doesn't support their programs.
NLR is building a new stadium - they have fantastic fan support.
LR Public schools supports basketball, but not football.
Barton set record attendance for the state basketball tourney.
SEC women's tourney draws great at Verizon and NCAA regional was a huge success.

The problem with UALR football - if they don't go head to head with the Razorbacks they would get some support.
But on a Saturday afternoon you'd be hard pressed to get folks out to watch UALR instead of the Hogs.

I managed restaurants in LR for years and I can tell you when the Hogs are playing in Fayetteville you have no problem getting a table in LR. Why you ask? Because there is a huge amount of folks gone to the game. LR supports the Hogs in a big way and not just when they are playing in LR