Anyone hear what Gary Pinkel said about AR?

[Deep Shoat]

How long did the NFL deny the claims that repetitive impacts to the head caused long term health issues and concerns?

Millions of dollars ago...

Yep.  And note that the NFL has been far more proactive about this issue.  They made sure their rules were changed several years ago to avoid this kind of "football".

[The Galloping Ghost]

This thread is empirical evidence of Arkansas being one of the little brothers in the SEC and screaming for a rival so bad they can taste it.

We want Auburn to be...witness all the Auburn/Gus threads but at the end if the day we KNOW that will never be the case.

The latest push for Mizzou has potential. We'll see.

Deep Shoat: 2 CNA's talking over lunch at the hospital cafeteria doesn't count for "health care professionals" discussing the injury potential of defensive players against the HUNH.

[The Kig]

Basically you are wanting a strategic game, similar to chess, like it was for 135 years or so years.

Others want a mind numbing simple game, like checkers.

About 135 years ago (ok more, but follow me), the Redcoats were pissin and moaning about the idea that we weren't following the traditional "rule of warfare" and lining up our guys across from theirs and just shooting till one team ran out of guys.... we were shooting at them from the cover of trees.   If we had just followed the rules, we wouldn't be here today.  Instead, we changed the rules and won.

Football is a strategic game where you have to find advantage within the rules.  I have no problem with whatever Offense or Defense a coach wants to run... old school or perceived innovation. Just figure out a way to win with your philosophy.  If you can't win with your playbook, be open enough to get some new plays...or execute your plays better. 

Adaptation and looking for any advantage you can with in the framework of the rules is the hallmark of a good coach.  People wouldn't be bishing about the GusBus approach if it wasn't working.  Figure out how to stop it and it will go away. 

 

[Deep Shoat]

This thread is empirical evidence of Arkansas being one of the little brothers in the SEC and screaming for a rival so bad they can taste it.

We want Auburn to be...witness all the Auburn/Gus threads but at the end if the day we KNOW that will never be the case.

The latest push for Mizzou has potential. We'll see.

Deep Shoat: 2 CNA's talking over lunch at the hospital cafeteria doesn't count for "health care professionals" discussing the injury potential of defensive players against the HUNH.

Once I finish my ICU rounds in 2 more hours, I'll run down to the cafeteria and tell the CNA's to discuss something else.

[ricepig]

About 135 years ago (ok more, but follow me), the Redcoats were pissin and moaning about the idea that we weren't following the traditional "rule of warfare" and lining up our guys across from theirs and just shooting till one team ran out of guys.... we were shooting at them from the cover of trees.   If we had just followed the rules, we wouldn't be here today.  Instead, we changed the rules and won.

Football is a strategic game where you have to find advantage within the rules.  I have no problem with whatever Offense or Defense a coach wants to run... old school or perceived innovation. Just figure out a way to win with your philosophy.  If you can't win with your playbook, be open enough to get some new plays...or execute your plays better. 

Adaptation and looking for any advantage you can with in the framework of the rules is the hallmark of a good coach.  People wouldn't be bishing about the GusBus approach if it wasn't working.  Figure out how to stop it and it will go away. 

 

Fine, just go back to the :25 clock.

[The Hogfather]

This thread is empirical evidence of Arkansas being one of the little brothers in the SEC and screaming for a rival so bad they can taste it.

We want Auburn to be...witness all the Auburn/Gus threads but at the end if the day we KNOW that will never be the case.

The latest push for Mizzou has potential. We'll see.

Deep Shoat: 2 CNA's talking over lunch at the hospital cafeteria doesn't count for "health care professionals" discussing the injury potential of defensive players against the HUNH.

The Galloping Goon

[Inhogswetrust]

This thread is empirical evidence of Arkansas being one of the little brothers in the SEC and screaming for a rival so bad they can taste it.

We want Auburn to be...witness all the Auburn/Gus threads but at the end if the day we KNOW that will never be the case.

The latest push for Mizzou has potential. We'll see.

Deep Shoat: 2 CNA's talking over lunch at the hospital cafeteria doesn't count for "health care professionals" discussing the injury potential of defensive players against the HUNH.

You don't have to have a true "rival" to have a good sports program and for fans to follow it.

[The Hogfather]

Fine, just go back to the :25 clock.

Exactly .  Do this and everything is solved .

[Scott Marshall]

Here is video from the Digital Media room
http://www.nwahomepage.com/fulltextsports/d/story/2014-sec-media-daysmizzougary-pinkel/31610/YNM8P1UiMkegc6EVUPT3rg

[mizzouman]

Really nice comments from a coach who had a player die during his off season conditioning program.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2006-07-11-oneal-remembered_x.htm

[The Boar War]

Heard a small shot was fired directed towards CBB.

Well that's what small people do.

[Hogfaniam]

About 135 years ago (ok more, but follow me), the Redcoats were pissin and moaning about the idea that we weren't following the traditional "rule of warfare" and lining up our guys across from theirs and just shooting till one team ran out of guys.... we were shooting at them from the cover of trees.   If we had just followed the rules, we wouldn't be here today.  Instead, we changed the rules and won.

Football is a strategic game where you have to find advantage within the rules.  I have no problem with whatever Offense or Defense a coach wants to run... old school or perceived innovation. Just figure out a way to win with your philosophy.  If you can't win with your playbook, be open enough to get some new plays...or execute your plays better. 

Adaptation and looking for any advantage you can with in the framework of the rules is the hallmark of a good coach.  People wouldn't be bishing about the GusBus approach if it wasn't working.  Figure out how to stop it and it will go away. 

 

^that, right there^

[NWAVolFan]

I love how BB goes on and on about limiting plays because plays cause injuries, then says he's in favor of adding two extra games with an 8 team playoff. 2 extra games = a LOT more chances for injury.

Translation, it's not about plays or safety, it's about advantage.

[ricepig]

I love how BB goes on and on about limiting plays because plays cause injuries, then says he's in favor of adding two extra games with an 8 team playoff. 2 extra games = a LOT more chances for injury.

Translation, it's not about plays or safety, it's about advantage.

That would be 1 extra game. 8-4-2

[lefty08]

I love how BB goes on and on about limiting plays because plays cause injuries, then says he's in favor of adding two extra games with an 8 team playoff. 2 extra games = a LOT more chances for injury.

Translation, it's not about plays or safety, it's about advantage.

I love how volunteer message boards suck so bad they troll ours....

[12247]

When the UofA starts backing off the rent a wins cause their team may be smaller than ours and not as talented and because the lower divisions cannot offer the number of schollies we can and therefore are not likely to have manpower to throw at us and BB says I don't want to hurt their players cause we have an unfair advantage in talent, size and manpower, therefore I will pull my starters and go at them with Guys their size, talent and about the same number, then I'll but his horse hockey story about not wanting Kids hurt.

[The Galloping Ghost]

The Galloping Goon

Man. You got me.

[HogFanatic]

Can't we all just get along?

The SEC has built its name by fielding big, mauling teams with superior talent. This is fact. Now the new push is for up-tempo offenses to counter teams like Alabama, who can just line up 5 star defensive linemen at you all day long.

This is a transition that I do not believe is in the best long-term interests of the conference because this style of football depends on scheme. Which means that other teams, from lesser conferences, can do the same thing (see Baylor).

Essentially this is what it boils down to. Does the SEC want to change identities, or remain dominant? That is where the rule change will come from, if it comes at all. If it doesn't come, then we will just have to adapt eventually, because yes, running 100 plays a game is going to stress your big maulers on the line if they cannot sub out when they want to.


Coach B has a valid point here, but so do his detractors. In the end, money rules the day though and I believe there will be a rule change. Probably to go back to the .25 clock.

[HogFanatic]

When the UofA starts backing off the rent a wins cause their team may be smaller than ours and not as talented and because the lower divisions cannot offer the number of schollies we can and therefore are not likely to have manpower to throw at us and BB says I don't want to hurt their players cause we have an unfair advantage in talent, size and manpower, therefore I will pull my starters and go at them with Guys their size, talent and about the same number, then I'll but his horse hockey story about not wanting Kids hurt.

You must not pay much attention to scheduling.

Alabama is KING of the rent-a-wins. Arkansas is actually beginning to schedule tough OOC opponents, and I am happy for that.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Isn't the fundamental purpose of FB to wear down, hurt you're opponent?  To physically dominate the guy across from you?  I mean for goodness sake there's a pissing contest thread going about who is tougher...a football player or rugby player.

Coach B has a valid point here, but so do his detractors.

Ah, a common sense post. 

[TheArkansasTraveller]

Gary Pinkel will be heading to dinner by the third quarter of our game. Some TA will be calling plays after that. They are going to completely destroy us. Mauk will throw for as much as they want. It's a sad time in our program when it is a foregone conclusion that we will get destroyed by friggin Missouri.

Dude play in the interstate blindfolded.  I'm concerned about alto of teams on the Hogs schedule.  Mizzdrunk isn't one of them. 

[scootriteby]

Once I finish my ICU rounds in 2 more hours, I'll run down to the cafeteria and tell the CNA's to discuss something else.

Interesting that you are on here posting while working on a floor that should demand all of your attention. Shows where our health care has gone...

[PorkRinds]

When the UofA starts backing off the rent a wins cause their team may be smaller than ours and not as talented and because the lower divisions cannot offer the number of schollies we can and therefore are not likely to have manpower to throw at us and BB says I don't want to hurt their players cause we have an unfair advantage in talent, size and manpower, therefore I will pull my starters and go at them with Guys their size, talent and about the same number, then I'll but his horse hockey story about not wanting Kids hurt.

Holy run on sentence batman!

[Deep Shoat]

Interesting that you are on here posting while working on a floor that should demand all of your attention. Shows where our health care has gone...

LOL, rounds involve time at the desk talking to the staff about my patients.  The desk has computers.

[bigpigonthehill]

You guys think Pinkel is a dunk now, just wait till Arkansas beats Missouri. There will be much ralphing:puke:

[Ironhawg]

One sure way to shut Pinkel up; beat Mizzou like a drum every single time you get the chance.  No calling off the dogs.  No being nice.  70-0 is about right each and every time.  Until Arkansas can do that we just have to take his garbage.

[Fatty McGee]

I'm a healthcare professional and I will back him up.

In fact, I don't know any healthcare professionals who don't make their living off of college football who don't think it is an issue, and I have talked to more than a few.

But go ahead Fatty, keep posting like you know something you don't.

Awesome, I'm glad we have a pro in here.  Hopefully we can learn something.  Can you share what area you work in and how you reached this conclusion?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

One sure way to shut Pinkel up; beat Mizzou like a drum every single time you get the chance.  No calling off the dogs.  No being nice.  70-0 is about right each and every time.

Wouldn't that increase the chance of injuries?

[lefty08]

i did hear what he said about arkansas, which was absolutely nothing. noting to see here, move along

[cosmodrum]

Quitting and going home before the season starts?

Nope, we're just not ready to compete in this league yet and they have a very good QB and stability in their program. I understand where we are right now. This is temporary.

[nextlevel]

Nope, we're just not ready to compete in this league yet and they have a very good QB and stability in their program. I understand where we are right now. This is temporary.

You never know what they, or we, will have by the time that game comes around, they had a few injuries 2 years ago that lead to a 5-7 record for them.

When we played Florida last year, it was not the same Florida team that faced Georgia Southern a month or so later, injuries decimated that team in between those games.

[ChitownHawg]

I don't believe that for one second...

Of course you don't.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

i did hear what he said about arkansas, which was absolutely nothing. noting to see here, move along

True enough. When asked about the allegation that the HUNH offenses put players health in jeopardy, he merely responded that he has never had a single player, coach or health care professional on their team ever come in and tell him that they were concerned about the welfare of the team because they ran more plays in a game. He did say that he thought the allegations were "fiction". That's just a simple disagreement with the stance that it does.

He did say that he had a lot of respect for Arkansas and that while you can't automatically create rivalry games, that he thought that this game had the potential to grow into a really good rivalry game. Of course, what else was he going to say?

But he never did take a shot at BB or Arkansas.

[harley spoon]

A few random opinions:

1.  BB's safety arguments aren't well thought out.  For instance, over the course of the season last year, A&M averaged ten more plays per game on offense than Arkansas......that less than three plays per quarter.   Yet BB is advocating for more playoff games?  Best case....BB is being facetious.  Worst case......he is not too bright.   I think he is bright, so I'm going with he is being facetious for tactical reasons.

2.  HUNH gives an advantage to those teams that are unable to recruit masses of raw athletes like Bama is able to do.  It allows teams with top 25 talent to condition their players and tactically beat teams like Bama.  Arkansas is in the SEC and will never be able to compete for masses of raw talent like Bama and have the depth of Bama.  Yet, BB continues to believe the best strategy is to line up and go toe to toe with Bamas depth rather that shrink that advantage to just the eleven best players on the field and limit Bama's advantage of depth up front.

3.  Football evolves.  We could turn back the substitution rules to the 50's and early sixties which required any players leaving the field to not return for the half and forces players to play both ways.  For those wanting to turn back the rules, it seems a bit selective to just go back to a 25 second clock when no empirical data exists to compel the change. 

4. There is a chance that BB will someday not be the Arkansas coach.  If that ever happens, it would be a travesty to have reduced Arkansas's ability to compete with Bama's recruiting depth by eliminating the new coaches ability to use superior conditioning, training and player heart to compete with just top 25 raw talent.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

3.  Football evolves.  We could turn back the substitution rules to the 50's and early sixties which required any players leaving the field to not return for the half and forces players to play both ways.  For those wanting to turn back the rules, it seems a bit selective to just go back to a 25 second clock when no empirical data exists to compel the change. 

Coaches who utilize the HUNH system found that, with the rule change regarding the clock, that they could take advantage of opposing defenses, regardless of what offense the other team runs, by simply controlling the frequency with which the defense can sub by returning to the LOS immediately after the end of the previous play. Can't blame the HUNH HC's for taking advantage of a loophole that was inadvertedly provided to them. That's just smart.

Defenses protest because they don't have the opportunity to substitute down/distance/situational personnel packages when the offense comes to the LOS so quickly. I can understand their point of view as well.

Personally, I prefer a more level playing field that presents a greater opportunity for true, head to head, strategic planning and play calling between two coaching staffs. I'm not sure that there even needs to be an official change in terms of the clock, just an amendment that offers both teams the opportunity to substitute between plays. Call it whatever you will, but both teams should be given the opportunity nonetheless. If the offense doesn't want to change their personnel package, fine. If the defense does, they are allowed to do so.

[The Hogfather]

Coaches who utilize the HUNH system found that, with the rule change regarding the clock, that they could take advantage of opposing defenses, regardless of what offense the other team runs, by simply controlling the frequency with which the defense can sub by returning to the LOS immediately after the end of the previous play. Can't blame the HUNH HC's for taking advantage of a loophole that was inadvertedly provided to them. That's just smart.

Defenses protest because they don't have the opportunity to substitute down/distance/situational personnel packages when the offense comes to the LOS so quickly. I can understand their point of view as well.

Personally, I prefer a more level playing field that presents a greater opportunity for true, head to head, strategic planning and play calling between two coaching staffs. I'm not sure that there even needs to be an official change in terms of the clock, just an amendment that offers both teams the opportunity to substitute between plays. Call it whatever you will, but both teams should be given the opportunity nonetheless. If the offense doesn't want to change their personnel package, fine. If the defense does, they are allowed to do so.

Right.  It isn't really a pace of play argument.  It is an argument about whether or not one side of the ball should be allowed to hold the other side hostage, without allowing them to substitute, by rushing up to the line after a play and bobbing up and down like a prairie dog.

[Inhogswetrust]

When the UofA starts backing off the rent a wins cause their team may be smaller than ours and not as talented and because the lower divisions cannot offer the number of schollies we can and therefore are not likely to have manpower to throw at us and BB says I don't want to hurt their players cause we have an unfair advantage in talent, size and manpower, therefore I will pull my starters and go at them with Guys their size, talent and about the same number, then I'll but his horse hockey story about not wanting Kids hurt.

Based on your "paragraph" I guess you don't realize that ALL of the big conference schools play the smaller conference rent a win teams.

[RazorWild]

I'm a nurse in surgery.  We see many overuse injuries.  From shoulder and elbow issues in pitchers, to ruptured ligaments in football.  Not to mention the stress fractures that are taken care of in ER or clinic.  A lot of these even happen with all precautions taken (limiting reps).  It's basic physiology that a body will break down with extreme overuse.  As a father, I would not allow my son to play for any coach that ran an extreme hurry up.  Your just begging for injuries.  Sure, they're are many kids who's bodies can handle it, but why chance it? 

[DeltaBoy]

The Zoo's resident Drunk needs to shut up.

[Seebs]

The way you keep these types of mouths closed is to sustain long, pounding drives down the field spending their defenses reserves. Stop their hurry hurry hurry and wait offense and get their tired as heck defense back onto the field and grind them some more.

It is what happened to Arkansas defense at times when The Montana Ghost Rider was here.  Let's grind our opponents into submission and next year talk about the weather at media day - or the blood still on their football fields.

[Kenny Hawgins]

A few random opinions:

1.  BB's safety arguments aren't well thought out.  For instance, over the course of the season last year, A&M averaged ten more plays per game on offense than Arkansas......that less than three plays per quarter.   Yet BB is advocating for more playoff games?  Best case....BB is being facetious.  Worst case......he is not too bright.   I think he is bright, so I'm going with he is being facetious for tactical reasons.

The issue isn't the number of plays; it's the inability for coaches to sub out players.

[bigbadhog]

Right.  It isn't really a pace of play argument.  It is an argument about whether or not one side of the ball should be allowed to hold the other side hostage, without allowing them to substitute, by rushing up to the line after a play and bobbing up and down like a prairie dog.

Offense should have control.  Both teams get a chance.  The defense couldn't sub when Eddie Sutton used to stall for 10 minutes in the second half of basketball games.  No one was screaming that the defense was tired and might become injured or die...

[IPig]

Once I finish my ICU rounds in 2 more hours, I'll run down to the cafeteria and tell the CNA's to discuss something else.

LMAO +1

[TheGrove68]

NHUO are here to stay because they are a inclusive offense that involves more players.Qb,4-5WR,RB and TE. Players and coaches at the high school level love playing it. 7-7 yr around practice entrenches that mind set into skill players and they gravitate to schools who run that style of offense. This system is and will creep into the NFL to a greater degree.As more and more CFB players are brought up in that style and less and less pro style players are developed in CFB.

AO had sickle cell issues that nobody knew about, to suggest he died from over excursion do to the offense is off base.

[mizzouman]

My thoughts on hurry up offenses.

To say that this will put players in danger of getting hurt, is ridiculous.  What's next?  Do we say that offensive linemen weighing over 300lbs cannot play because they may hurt some defensive linemen?

The game evolves.  Eventually, these offenses will go out of style because the defense will eventually catch up.  Let the offense do what they want and let the defense defend it.

[nextlevel]

NHUO are here to stay because they are a inclusive offense that involves more players.Qb,4-5WR,RB and TE. Players and coaches at the high school level love playing it. 7-7 yr around practice entrenches that mind set into skill players and they gravitate to schools who run that style of offense. This system is and will creep into the NFL to a greater degree.As more and more CFB players are brought up in that style and less and less pro style players are developed in CFB.

AO had sickle cell issues that nobody knew about, to suggest he died from over excursion do to the offense is off base.

He died from trainers ignoring the warning signs he conveyed.

He was overexerted in conditioning drills in extreme heat with a goal of conditioning a player to be able to withstand long series on the field with multiple reps without the need for a rest. Its a chicken/egg argument.

A player does not need to die on the field to "prove" that HUNH offenses require a great deal of energy from the players in them and facing them, the tragic deaths in preparations to play in the systems should be learned from not ignored.

[Fatty McGee]

The issue isn't the number of plays; it's the inability for coaches to sub out players.

How little conditioning is there these days?  One would think, especially in televised games, there is quite a few breaks.  And most of the injuries/deaths seem to happen in the offseason.

Is there even one death or serious injury attributable to this?

[bigbadhog]

My thoughts on hurry up offenses.

To say that this will put players in danger of getting hurt, is ridiculous.  What’s next?  Do we say that offensive linemen weighing over 300lbs cannot play because they may hurt some defensive linemen?

The game evolves.  Eventually, these offenses will go out of style because the defense will eventually catch up.  Let the offense do what they want and let the defense defend it.

Exactly right MM

[Fatty McGee]

He died from trainers ignoring the warning signs he conveyed.

He was overexerted in conditioning drills in extreme heat with a goal of conditioning a player to be able to withstand long series on the field with multiple reps without the need for a rest. Its a chicken/egg argument.

A player does not need to die on the field to "prove" that HUNH offenses require a great deal of energy from the players in them and facing them, the tragic deaths in preparations to play in the systems should be learned from not ignored.

In that case, shut down football.  If you're going to use the safety claims to change this rule, then let's stop tackling.  Because there are studies upon studies and mountains of evidence that the head trauma incurred during football causes long term brain injury.  It's not even a debate.  So if you start going down the "for the kids' safety" line, it's going to put you in an uncomfortable position defending the sport at all.

As a competition argument, in terms of what do people want to see, that's understandable.  But the safety argument is just weak.  There are no credible studies to back it up.  I don't know why people even try.

Muskogee makes better arguments when talking about the type and pace of the game as a spectator. 

[nextlevel]

How little conditioning is there these days?  One would think, especially in televised games, there is quite a few breaks.  And most of the injuries/deaths seem to happen in the offseason.

Is there even one death or serious injury attributable to this?

There have been several deaths attributed to the conditioning needed for players to play in uptempo systems used by teams.

But these deaths occur in the summer and are largely ignored, when/if one occurs from over exertion in a game, the outrage will follow.