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Could we be considered a sleeping giant....

Started by Al Boarland, July 11, 2014, 10:34:00 am

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Al Boarland

Like gets thrown around at A&M?  I think the rationale is how much in-state talent you have.  Much like LSU was a sleeping giant.  What can the state do to develop better HS football programs?

PonderinHog


Ā 

Kenny Hawgins

It's all about community support and $$$.  Look at the difference in pay for teachers and coaches in Texas and Arkansas.  Generally, you can make a lot more in Texas.

Additionally, a greater willingness to pump money into facilities and sports programs and higher expectations of performance by the community lead to more high quality prospects (even after considering population disparity).  On the other hand, it does appear that the state of Arkansas is on the uptick in producing prospects; just need to continue development statewide.
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Hog Fan...DOH!

Totally agree.  I hope the people of Little Rock start paying attention. 


Quote from: Kenny Hawgins on July 11, 2014, 11:22:23 am
It's all about community support and $$$.  Look at the difference in pay for teachers and coaches in Texas and Arkansas.  Generally, you can make a lot more in Texas.

Additionally, a greater willingness to pump money into facilities and sports programs and higher expectations of performance by the community lead to more high quality prospects (even after considering population disparity).  On the other hand, it does appear that the state of Arkansas is on the uptick in producing prospects; just need to continue development statewide.

LZH

Quote from: PonderinHog on July 11, 2014, 10:36:41 am
Consolidate and educate.

I'm not convinced that even works.  I don't have anything resembling facts one way or the other, I've just seen what's happened to these little school districts down here over the past 25 years - including consolidation.

As far as athletics go, when you close a school and bus those 30 football players to their new school, all 30 of them do not play football anymore.  The best ones do, I'm sure.  But then your once strong A program and AA program becomes a AAA program, and now they're in the middle of the pack and are producing less football players overall.

Two teams that were as good as anyone in AA back in my days don't even have football anymore (Dermott and Eudora), and Eudora isn't even a school anymore.  There were a few guys my age from those schools that played at UAPB, Grambling, SAU, UAM, etc. - and like most of these delta areas it would have been more in D1 if they had the grades.  These days, Eudora kids are bussed here to LV and I don't know of any kids from Lakeside HS that have played any college ball since Toney six or eight years ago.

Not saying I'm right, I'm just saying I'm not convinced that I'm wrong.  I hope this turns into a good thread, because I'm sure someone on here has some answers, and even though I only go to high school games these days to watch my cheerleader, I do hate that alot of these kids are hearing stories of the 'old days' about these rivalries and have nothing to relate to.

ricepig

Well, this was tweeted by Robert Yates(ADG) yesterday:  LRSD Master Facilities Plan includes on-campus FB stadium @ #Parkview, indoor workout areas @ each high school, visitor stands @ Scott Field.

Of course, where does the money come for the facilities? Also today, the ADG had the list of 26 schools that are academically distressed, lots were in LR, Pulaski County school district and PB. Most of the rest were delta schools.

PonderinHog

Don't get me wrong, Zep.  I'm not saying that's the complete solution, but I do think it is part of the long-term solution.

LZH

Quote from: PonderinHog on July 11, 2014, 12:06:56 pm
Don't get me wrong, Zep.  I'm not saying that's the complete solution, but I do think it is part of the long-term solution.

I understand.  That's why I was kinda hoping that someone would have some real goodies to share, because I don't.  I just know that when you say 'consolidation' around here, it isn't a popular term.  And I realize that it's about money (mostly) and education (maybe), and it's the shrinking tax bases that dictate alot of this stuff.  But it's sure done a number on these programs.

Ex-Trumpet

How many kids have to ride a bus across town instead of going to the school in their own neighborhood?  Honest question here, because I really don't know the answer...if kids have to catch a bus at the butt-crack of dawn and don't get home til the butt-crack of dusk, it would eliminate a lot of kids who might otherwise participate in extracurricular activities.
Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

OneTuskOverTheLineā„¢

Quote from: Kenny Hawgins on July 11, 2014, 11:22:23 am
It's all about community support and $$$.  Look at the difference in pay for teachers and coaches in Texas and Arkansas.  Generally, you can make a lot more in Texas.

Additionally, a greater willingness to pump money into facilities and sports programs and higher expectations of performance by the community lead to more high quality prospects (even after considering population disparity).  On the other hand, it does appear that the state of Arkansas is on the uptick in producing prospects; just need to continue development statewide.


Growth is key... As a former Pine Bluff boy (WHHS 1989) I have to admit that NWA is leading the way. Everyone else who gives a damn is having to work harder to compete...
Quote from: capehog on March 12, 2010...
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quote from: golf2day on June 19, 2014....
I'm disgusted, but kinda excited. Now I'm disgusted that I'm excited.

LZH

Quote from: Ex-Trumpet on July 11, 2014, 12:28:12 pm
How many kids have to ride a bus across town instead of going to the school in their own neighborhood?  Honest question here, because I really don't know the answer...if kids have to catch a bus at the butt-crack of dawn and don't get home til the butt-crack of dusk, it would eliminate a lot of kids who might otherwise participate in extracurricular activities.

According to that ADG article, a bunch (LR).  And that is precisely why many don't play sports anymore.

ricepig

Quote from: LZH on July 11, 2014, 12:34:11 pm
According to that ADG article, a bunch (LR).  And that is precisely why many don't play sports anymore.

Well, it's not the main reason, but it helps keep the numbers down. They are also instituting an athletic period, previously they had all practices after school in order to help test scores, don't know if they gave up or what.

LZH

Quote from: ricepig on July 11, 2014, 12:37:12 pm
Well, it's not the main reason, but it helps keep the numbers down. They are also instituting an athletic period, previously they had all practices after school in order to help test scores, don't know if they gave up or what.

I didn't know that, it was described as the opposite in that article.  When I was in school, 6th and/or 7th periods were for athletics.  As I understand it, nowadays in LR everything is after school....after 3:30 or later.

Ā 

Hog Fan...DOH!

Quote from: ricepig on July 11, 2014, 12:04:25 pm
Well, this was tweeted by Robert Yates(ADG) yesterday:  LRSD Master Facilities Plan includes on-campus FB stadium @ #Parkview, indoor workout areas @ each high school, visitor stands @ Scott Field.


Dear Little Rock,

Make this happen.  Not only for football, but for the future success of your own community.  Get these kids involved and connected.  Give the community something to take pride in and rally behind.  Get some kids off the streets.  Get some more kids in college. 

Sincerely,

The World


ricepig

Quote from: Hog Fan...DOH! on July 11, 2014, 12:45:22 pm
Dear Little Rock,

Make this happen.  Not only for football, but for the future success of your own community.  Get these kids involved and connected.  Give the community something to take pride in and rally behind.  Get some kids off the streets.  Get some more kids in college. 

Sincerely,

The World



He also had some tweet about a LRSD sports complex to be built in SWLR for $26mil, it may have been part of their Master plan.

ricepig

Quote from: LZH on July 11, 2014, 12:42:02 pm
I didn't know that, it was described as the opposite in that article.  When I was in school, 6th and/or 7th periods were for athletics.  As I understand it, nowadays in LR everything is after school....after 3:30 or later.

Yep, was, they will now have an athletic period.

LZH

Quote from: ricepig on July 11, 2014, 12:59:51 pm
He also had some tweet about a LRSD sports complex to be built in SWLR for $26mil, it may have been part of their Master plan.

I read that it's something like $88 million dollars just in legal fees since the LRSD lawsuit heated up in the 1980's.  That's like the story I saw on CNN last nite of the twice-convicted rapist who openly bragged about raping 23 women after he was released the first time for raping over 40 women....a judge let him outta jail with an ankle bracelet, against the protests of the DA, state reps, etc.

What the hell is WRONG with people?

three hog night

Quote from: Hog Fan...DOH! on July 11, 2014, 12:45:22 pm
Dear Little Rock,

Make this happen.  Not only for football, but for the future success of your own community.  Get these kids involved and connected.  Give the community something to take pride in and rally behind.  Get some kids off the streets.  Get some more kids in college. 

Sincerely,

The World

Amen.   The gang and drug problem can be mitigated with sports and other extracurricular activities.   The kids have lost a sense of their local neighborhoods.   We would be a real sleeping giant if the central Arkansas and PB schools improved.   That is the missing piece of the puzzle.
Petrino left a mess and Bielema is trying to fill in the talent gaps.  Anderson finally has some talent to work with.  He needs more at select positions and that will come in the next recruiting class. 
Posters that think they are Jim Rhome are ruining message boards.

ifghog

Quote from: LZH on July 11, 2014, 01:04:57 pm
I read that it's something like $88 million dollars just in legal fees since the LRSD lawsuit heated up in the 1980's.  That's like the story I saw on CNN last nite of the twice-convicted rapist who openly bragged about raping 23 women after he was released the first time for raping over 40 women....a judge let him outta jail with an ankle bracelet, against the protests of the DA, state reps, etc.

What the hell is WRONG with people?
Preach it!

DeltaBoy

The Lawyer and folks who started the case should be horse whipped and stripped of the profits he gained from this nonsense. PROPS to Central Ark for bringing back the Athletic period.
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hobhog

Quote from: ricepig on July 11, 2014, 01:02:48 pm
Yep, was, they will now have an athletic period.

This alone will help tremendously. Let the kids start practice at 2pm during last period instead of 3:30 will get more kids involved.

And hopefully the end of the desegregation lawsuit issues will allow for more funds to be spent for athletics and school improvements instead of Mr. Walkers legal fees.

PorkSoda

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Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

GuvHog

Quote from: Ex-Trumpet on July 11, 2014, 12:28:12 pm
How many kids have to ride a bus across town instead of going to the school in their own neighborhood?  Honest question here, because I really don't know the answer...if kids have to catch a bus at the butt-crack of dawn and don't get home til the butt-crack of dusk, it would eliminate a lot of kids who might otherwise participate in extracurricular activities.

Long bus rides were commonplace where I graduated and still are. Distance wise, Greene County Tech is one of the largest districts in the state. Some of those kids catch the bus as early as 5:30 AM and don't get home until after 6:00 PM. I don't know how they do it.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

JansterZ71

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Ā 

WILL CLINTON

I think we are just considered "sleeping".
There is no sacred ground for the conquered.

RNHog

I don't think we can be consistently but with the right coach we can certainly be a winning program. And I think we have that type of coach to get the right players to win.

Ex-Trumpet

Quote from: GuvHog on July 11, 2014, 02:54:02 pm
Long bus rides were commonplace where I graduated and still are. Distance wise, Greene County Tech is one of the largest districts in the state. Some of those kids catch the bus as early as 5:30 AM and don't get home until after 6:00 PM. I don't know how they do it.

If they have to catch a bus to get home, they don't play football, basketball...or trumpet for that matter.  They have to have someone else taxi them to and from.  Most kids simply don't have that option.
Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

rusvegashog


ijustpork

I will go ahead and say it now, if no injury to our key players, We WILL win 2 games we aren't supposed to win.


Bank it

RNHog

Quote from: ijustpork on July 11, 2014, 03:49:05 pm
I will go ahead and say it now, if no injury to our key players, We WILL win 2 games we aren't supposed to win.


Bank it

This I can agree with. I think we go  bowling.

LZH

Quote from: Ex-Trumpet on July 11, 2014, 03:42:25 pm
If they have to catch a bus to get home, they don't play football, basketball...or trumpet for that matter.  They have to have someone else taxi them to and from.  Most kids simply don't have that option.

The LRSD has busses/vans to take kids home, but by the time they make their rounds it's after 7:00 before some of them get home.  I remember something like $480K per year in fuel costs for this and I can't remember if they were cutting it out or had already done it.

Hayden1865

Quote from: hobhog on July 11, 2014, 02:34:12 pm
This alone will help tremendously. Let the kids start practice at 2pm during last period instead of 3:30 will get more kids involved.

And hopefully the end of the desegregation lawsuit issues will allow for more funds to be spent for athletics and school improvements instead of Mr. Walkers legal fees.
Really excited about this, I can not comment on experience I grew up nowhere near the area. My father; however always said growing up the talent pumped out of LR and Pine Bluff were just insane. He said the lack of an athletic period, in his opinion, is what has kept LR down the past decade more athletes in the street than on the gridiron/court. We have already seen PB turnaround after a decade in the desert now, hopefully we will see LR begin to turn things around and put some more players in college.
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cmiller01

Getting the Little Rock area to produce 3-4 High D1 athletes every year will be the key here. Basketball-wise, we're already doing a good job of that.

Inhogswetrust

I love college sports as much as anybody. However when areas have a shrinking population and thus shrinking tax base then something has to give educationally due to financial considerations. Economies of scale dictates that. If that means consolidation then unfortunately that's the way it has to be. That is unfortunately to the detriment of athletics and other extracurricular activities in those areas.
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RNHog

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on July 11, 2014, 04:05:35 pm
I love college sports as much as anybody. However when areas have a shrinking population and thus shrinking tax base then something has to give educationally due to financial considerations. Economies of scale dictates that. If that means consolidation then unfortunately that's the way it has to be. That is unfortunately to the detriment of athletics and other extracurricular activities in those areas.

That is what I have been saying all along. Arkansas is too small of a state and too poor of a state to consistently be a top notch program. And the "populated, money areas of the state" don't produce legit talent.

Central Arkansas is a basketball region minus NLR.

NWA will never be a true pumper of d1 talent. Here and there talent.

GuvHog

IMHO the real reason for the decline of High School football in Central Arkansas is the required minimum grade average students have to have to play. If the students had to have a C average to play back when Basil Shabazz played in Pine Bluff, he would've never been in uniform.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

thirrdegreetusker

"develop better HS programs" is something the folks at UA can do nothing about, short-term. Just need to recruit hard, develop the kids you get, and out-work everyone.

thirrdegreetusker

Quote from: thirrdegreetusker on July 11, 2014, 04:41:49 pm
"develop better HS programs" is something the folks at UA can do nothing about, short-term. Just need to recruit hard, develop the kids you get, and out-work everyone.

But we ARE a sleeping giant. The last 55 years show that, when we have decent coaching, we contend, and can play with about anyone.

LZH

Quote from: thirrdegreetusker on July 11, 2014, 04:47:44 pm
But we ARE a sleeping giant. The last 55 years show that, when we have decent coaching, we contend, and can play with about anyone.

There's truth in here.

You feel the same way I do.  With the right coach here, we CAN win 10 games a year in the SEC.

Ex-Trumpet

This thread could devolve into a socio-political debate none of us wants or needs...and could even further devolve into a WMS debate!!  :)
Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

Pork Twain

Quote from: PonderinHog on July 11, 2014, 10:36:41 am
Consolidate and educate.
This and only this.  Far too many little schools do not even have football.  Consolidate and improve the state programs
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

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Pork Twain

Quote from: LZH on July 11, 2014, 04:53:11 pm
There's truth in here.

You feel the same way I do.  With the right coach here, we CAN win 10 games a year in the SEC.
Not consistently
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

LZH



Augustus

Quote from: Ex-Trumpet on July 11, 2014, 05:27:55 pm
This thread could devolve into a socio-political debate none of us wants or needs...and could even further devolve into a WMS debate!!  :)

Coke, definitely. Pepsi SUCKS.

Dwight_K_Shrute

Little known fact, but prior to settling on Guantanamo, the Pentagon wanted to house terror suspects at War Memorial Stadium.  It was deemed to be cruel and unusual punishment and in violation of the Geneva Convention.

footballfan

I'm curious how consolidation would hurt. It isn't like the D-1 quality athletes will be getting left out.

dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya

A sleeping giant to an SEC team this season maybe...
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redeye

Quote from: ricepig on July 11, 2014, 12:04:25 pm
Well, this was tweeted by Robert Yates(ADG) yesterday:  LRSD Master Facilities Plan includes on-campus FB stadium @ #Parkview, indoor workout areas @ each high school, visitor stands @ Scott Field.

Of course, where does the money come for the facilities? Also today, the ADG had the list of 26 schools that are academically distressed, lots were in LR, Pulaski County school district and PB. Most of the rest were delta schools.

Are they refurbishing Parkview's stadium?  Is it even still standing?

Quote from: LZH on July 11, 2014, 12:42:02 pm
I didn't know that, it was described as the opposite in that article.  When I was in school, 6th and/or 7th periods were for athletics.  As I understand it, nowadays in LR everything is after school....after 3:30 or later.

When I attended LR schools in the '70's and '80's, we had athletic periods some years, but I'm not sure about others.  Then they removed all sorts of incentives for students during the eighties, while ruling with an iron fist approach that didn't work.

ricepig

Quote from: redeye on July 12, 2014, 01:35:00 am
Are they refurbishing Parkview's stadium?  Is it even still standing?


Don't have any idea, my son's team played them at Fair, several years ago.