Some are saying the 22 years in the SEC shows that we were doomed when we joined

[Ben]

Friends of mine were talking to me saying that arkansas' progress and lack of a conf title was already forseen and hinted before they moved to the SEC. One brought up the point that we had a 22-34 record vs the SEC before joining. Another said that even in our heyday in the 60s and 70s we were still a combined 3-8. While i can see what they are saying, i jusr refuse to believe it. The SEC just has gotten stronger. Plus arkansas has been to three seccg, more than any team who hasn won a seccg. in the strongest division at that. But what is your take? Were we doomed from the start joining the SEC or do we just need more time?

[Pork Twain]

No

[nextlevel]

At one point, LSU had a losing record to the school's in the big east, so I guess that would mean LSU couldn't compete in the big east.

Ole Miss hasn't won a SEC title since the 60s, Kentucky since the 70s, Ms. State since the 40s, Vandy since the early 20th century, Carolina has one conference championship in their programs history in the 60s.

GT was a powerhouse while in the SEC, they have not been a national power in the ACC for a while now, although they do have a MNC that is more recent than UGA, so I guess the ACC is stronger than the SEC.

The SEC gained a bowl record lead against the B1G just recently, in the past 5 years, the regular season record is in the B1G's favor, IIRC, so the B1G must be stronger than the SEC.

You can create all kinds of hyperboles and strawmen with the data out there. In Arkansas' case, it is more of a reflection of bad coaching and bad coaching staffs from 1992-2008, or the majority of our time in the conference, we have just recently entered the coaching arms race. LSU was god awful in the late 80s-2000 due to bad coach, Bama was greatly down in the 2000s due to bad coach and cheating, Florida has hit low points in the same time period under Zook and Muschamp, Carolina has only his a high with Spurrier, UGA has been consistent with Richt, not too low, but not too high. Tennessee is in a bad low in large part thanks to bad coaching.

If you really look at the low points of the above, you will see that it is bad coaching that puts them in a low point, a lack of continuity of more than 3 years by a staff keeps them there in the case of Tennessee.

[Piggfoot]

I hope not. I keep hoping for a dream team.
I believe some of the times we played in the Championship game it was by default in a tie breaker. During that time the East was the stronger.
I don't think Arkansas, the Miss schools, Kentucky, SC, or Vandy have won it.
Ark, Miss, Kentucky are the smallest states, SC is new like us but improving, Vandy is Vandy.

[Mike Irwin]

The minute you start thinking you'd be better off in the 2nd or 3rd best conference it's time  to run up the white flag.

Some people give up and settle for less. Others keep battling no matter how frustrating it gets.

[Boston RedHogs]

The minute you start thinking you'd be better off in the 2nd or 3rd best conference it's time  to run up the white flag.

Some people give up and settle for less. Others keep battling no matter how frustrating it gets.

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!

[Seebs]

The minute you start thinking you'd be better off in the 2nd or 3rd best conference it's time  to run up the white flag.

Some people give up and settle for less. Others keep battling no matter how frustrating it gets.

Love It when an 'I'm nervous or concerned' thread gets stiff armed in the first 10 replies.

Thank you Mike.

[ArkansasI]

I certainly don't think that the Hogs have anything to apologize for concerning our performance.  We haven't won the SEC championship yet, but we have been competitive.

Don't let the bastards get you down.

[Professor Psychosis]

We were a fumbled punt inside the 5 yardline away from defeating Florida for the SEC Championship in 2006, and that was with the Nutt as coach.

Other than Nutt, we haven't kept coaches very long at all in our SEC years.  Find a good coach who's willing to put in about 10 years here at least and I believe we could win the SEC a couple of times.  We may have that guy now, but I'm still waiting to see.

No matter who we hire, we're not going to dominate year in and year out, but we're not hopeless either.

[Hoggish1]

Friends of mine were talking to me saying that arkansas' progress and lack of a conf title was already forseen and hinted before they moved to the SEC. One brought up the point that we had a 22-34 record vs the SEC before joining. Another said that even in our heyday in the 60s and 70s we were still a combined 3-8. While i can see what they are saying, i jusr refuse to believe it. The SEC just has gotten stronger. Plus arkansas has been to three seccg, more than any team who hasn won a seccg. in the strongest division at that. But what is your take? Were we doomed from the start joining the SEC or do we just need more time?

It actually raised us up.  The only problems were Ford and Nutts.  If a high quality coach had been hired, we would have had at least two SEC championships by now.

Who would you blame for that (poor hires)?

Actually, who would you blame for 10 years of Nutts?

[nextlevel]

I hope not. I keep hoping for a dream team.
I believe some of the times we played in the Championship game it was by default in a tie breaker. During that time the East was the stronger.
I don't think Arkansas, the Miss schools, Kentucky, SC, or Vandy have won it.
Ark, Miss, Kentucky are the smallest states, SC is new like us but improving, Vandy is Vandy.

Only in 2002 did a tie breaker scenario take place, that was because Bama was on sanctions for cheating and Arkansas held the tie breaker over the other 2 teams tied for 2nd.

In 1998 Arkansas won the west, but Ms. State had the tie breaker, so they went.

In 2003 Ole Miss won the west, but LSU had the tie breaker, so they went.

West Champ trophies are given out to all the teams in this scenario, Ole Miss has one for 2003, Arkansas has one for 1998.

Arkansas was the first team out side of Alabama to win the west in 1995 and play in the SEC-CG, Arkansas did it before Auburn, before LSU, before Ms. State, before Ole Miss.

Arkansas has won a share of the west in 1995, 1998, 2002, and 2006 for an average of 3.5 years between titles up to 2006, that isn't too bad. If Arkansas can win the west in the next 5 years, they will join only Alabama and Auburn to have done so in each decade since conference expansion in 1992.

[Hoggish1]

The minute you start thinking you'd be better off in the 2nd or 3rd best conference it's time  to run up the white flag.

Some people give up and settle for less. Others keep battling no matter how frustrating it gets.

Yes!

And with Bielema, we will keep battling and chipping away.  The foundation is being built brick by brick, which is something we have never had in the SEC.

[hoglady]

Our lack of success in the SEC stems from lack of quality coaching over a sustained period.
Could any head coach we've had (except Petrino) win at any other program in the SEC? And fans wonder why we've not competed very well.
College football is ALL about coaching - you have a bad coach - you're gonna have a bad team.
Hoping Beliema can get us on the right track and keep us there.

[nextlevel]

Our lack of success in the SEC stems from lack of quality coaching over a sustained period.
Could any head coach we've had (except Petrino) win at any other program in the SEC? And fans wonder why we've not competed very well.
College football is ALL about coaching - you have a bad coach - you're gonna have a bad team.
Hoping Beliema can get us on the right track and keep us there.

Nutt could have won the SEC at LSU after Saban.

Their instate talent is enough on both sides of the ball to sustain success with the only need to supplement the classes coming from the nearby Houston area as well as south MS. and South AL.

Petrino could only win the SEC at a program like Florida and Auburn who can attract enough elite offensive talent to offset a total lack of defense.

Danny Ford in his prime could have won big at Alabama, Florida, Auburn, UGA, and LSU. We did not get an in his prime Danny Ford.

[PonderinHog]

I'd rather be neck deep in elephant, tiger, gator, bulldog, black bear,  and chicken feces than step barefoot in a 22+ year old patty of bull    , any day of the week.

The stars weren't aligned for us when we joined the SEC in 1992.  Lord, we were terrible back then, but there is no going back.  When we do finally win the SEC, it will have been well worth the wait.

Carry on.

[Biggus Piggus]

Friends of mine were talking to me saying that arkansas' progress and lack of a conf title was already forseen and hinted before they moved to the SEC. One brought up the point that we had a 22-34 record vs the SEC before joining. Another said that even in our heyday in the 60s and 70s we were still a combined 3-8. While i can see what they are saying, i jusr refuse to believe it. The SEC just has gotten stronger. Plus arkansas has been to three seccg, more than any team who hasn won a seccg. in the strongest division at that. But what is your take? Were we doomed from the start joining the SEC or do we just need more time?

The first six seasons were almost a complete waste.

Ken Hatfield started trying to leave Arkansas in 1988 (long story). He finally did after the '89 season, shortly before signing day. In the meantime, he and his staff barely paid attention to recruiting. The team was very short on talent when it entered the SEC in 1992. It was the WORST POSSIBLE WAY to prepare for moving to a stronger conference.

When we joined in 1992, the only great team was Alabama. Florida and Georgia were decent, is all (though the Gators were on the way up). We actually won at Tennessee, which otherwise won 9 games. Everybody else was mediocre to bad. LSU was awful. Can you imagine?

Huge TV contracts are pouring more and more cash into the conference. Any school situated in a good talent base has no excuse about recruiting anymore, even if their fanbase is small.

If Arkansas ought to emulate anyone, it's Missouri. They have some urban centers to recruit, but

Mauk - Ohio
Hansbrough - Texas
White - Texas
Hall - Arkansas
McGovern - North Dakota

and so on. They have married smart recruiting with great schemes and player development. Missouri's football program was trash for decades. They fluctuate up and down with their talent cycle, but since 2007 the Tigers have won 10+ games four times. That would be a great level for us to reach, before worrying about anything higher.

[hawgdawg63]

Our lack of success in the SEC stems from lack of quality coaching over a sustained period.
Could any head coach we've had (except Petrino) win at any other program in the SEC? And fans wonder why we've not competed very well.
College football is ALL about coaching - you have a bad coach - you're gonna have a bad team.
Hoping Beliema can get us on the right track and keep us there.

Bingo!! coaching is the answer. I don't know why so many won't admit that Petrino had the blue print for winning in the SEC. He knew we would not get the talent Bama has so planned to win otherwise. Don't give me the crap about his recruiting. How many times did we hear about his relentless practices about being perfect. That's what great coaches do and that is how you make average talent very good. We can compete with the right coach. Jury is still out on Beliema. However, if he doesn't stay or can only get to 7 wins in year 4-5 change will happen again and change will kill a program or make it just another school.

[Steef]

The minute you start thinking you'd be better off in the 2nd or 3rd best conference it's time  to run up the white flag.

Some people give up and settle for less. Others keep battling no matter how frustrating it gets.

+1

Our first DECADE in the SEC...was at the mercy...not of conference powerhouses... but of Houston Nutt.

We weren't mediocre because we are Arkansas. We were mediocre because our coach was...and our PTBs were satisfied with it.

And all of those people are finally gone.

Admittedly, it will take some time to prove that Arkansas' people are NOT mediocre. We're mean, don't back down, wild Hogs. And we WILL run our tusks right into your guts.

This ain't over. Its just begun.

[nextlevel]

Bingo!! coaching is the answer. I don't know why so many won't admit that Petrino had the blue print for winning in the SEC. He knew we would not get the talent Bama has so planned to win otherwise. Don't give me the crap about his recruiting. How many times did we hear about his relentless practices about being perfect. That's what great coaches do and that is how you make average talent very good. We can compete with the right coach. Jury is still out on Beliema. However, if he doesn't stay or can only get to 7 wins in year 4-5 change will happen again and change will kill a program or make it just another school.

His system won games, but never the games that mattered to win the west and thus play for a SEC-Championship.

The same thing can be said about Sumlin, he is credited to being an offensive genius, but he has not won the games that really mattered in the CUSA or SEC.

That is no different than Houston Nutt who pulled of plenty of upsets during his time here, but failed to win every game that really mattered.

Les Miles is no where near the coaches above, he is more equal to Houston Nutt than any of their fans or our fans will ever admit, but he gets his teams to win the games that matter as well as most of the big games on their schedule.

[Inhogswetrust]

The minute you start thinking you'd be better off in the 2nd or 3rd best conference it's time  to run up the white flag.

Some people give up and settle for less. Others keep battling no matter how frustrating it gets.

Exactly. I remember when ALL the old SEC teams had bad years and era's. You actually don't have to go back that far for some of them. ALL teams in other top conferences have also had bad years and such. All is needed is the right coach at the right place at the right time. Hopefully we have that now. If not then ALWAYS keep trying until we DO have it. In the immortal words of Winston Churchhill "NEVER SURRENDER".

[HawgNthaWater]

It's not about winning and losing Football games when judging the success of moving to the SEC...

It's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY..... We are only trailling LSU, Alabama, and Georgia when it comes to football revenue.

So we were never doomed, we are actually thriving....

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45el/university-of-arkansas-razorbacks/

[Inhogswetrust]

Bingo!! coaching is the answer. I don't know why so many won't admit that Petrino had the blue print for winning in the SEC. He knew we would not get the talent Bama has so planned to win otherwise. Don't give me the crap about his recruiting. How many times did we hear about his relentless practices about being perfect. That's what great coaches do and that is how you make average talent very good. We can compete with the right coach. Jury is still out on Beliema. However, if he doesn't stay or can only get to 7 wins in year 4-5 change will happen again and change will kill a program or make it just another school.

His relentless practices were perfect only on one side of the ball. That's not a blueprint for sustained success and winning in the SEC or anywhere. Change doesn't have to kill a program long-term. It might only wound it for a short time. I guess you don't remember how bad KSU was and for so long UNTIL they got the right coach. When he leaves they may fall back down but then go through several coaches until they rise again.

[jkstock04]

Depends on what your definition of doomed is. Looks to me like the major reason for moving to the SEC and staying is completely $$$$ motivated. Cause from where I sit looks to me like it's always gonna be an uphill battle for us in this conference if talking about wins/losses in the long term. Too much going against us, and that list is a mile long.

If you look at our history id say we are a solid middle tier SEC program. So in my opinion that's not really doomed.

[nextlevel]

His relentless practices were perfect only on one side of the ball. That's not a blueprint for sustained success and winning on the SEC or anywhere. Change doesn't have to kill a program long-term. It might only wound it for a short time. I guess you don't remember how bad KSU was and for so long UNTIL they got the right coach. When he leaves they may fall back down but then go through several coaches until they rise again.

They've already fell back down after he left, they brought him back.

K-State is interesting due to how reliant they are on JUCOs, Snyder the first and second time as well as the guy in between all relied on JUCO recruiting.

[hogsanity]

Doomed from the jump? No, BUT I don't think anyone was able to see just how hard recruiting was going to be, and how tough the SEC was going to become. When we joined the SEC, KY, Vandy, SC, MSU and old misses were all pretty much doormats.

[SemperFi]

At one point, LSU had a losing record to the school's in the big east, so I guess that would mean LSU couldn't compete in the big east.

Ole Miss hasn't won a SEC title since the 60s, Kentucky since the 70s, Ms. State since the 40s, Vandy since the early 20th century, Carolina has one conference championship in their programs history in the 60s.

GT was a powerhouse while in the SEC, they have not been a national power in the ACC for a while now, although they do have a MNC that is more recent than UGA, so I guess the ACC is stronger than the SEC.

The SEC gained a bowl record lead against the B1G just recently, in the past 5 years, the regular season record is in the B1G's favor, IIRC, so the B1G must be stronger than the SEC.

You can create all kinds of hyperboles and strawmen with the data out there. In Arkansas' case, it is more of a reflection of bad coaching and bad coaching staffs from 1992-2008, or the majority of our time in the conference, we have just recently entered the coaching arms race. LSU was god awful in the late 80s-2000 due to bad coach, Bama was greatly down in the 2000s due to bad coach and cheating, Florida has hit low points in the same time period under Zook and Muschamp, Carolina has only his a high with Spurrier, UGA has been consistent with Richt, not too low, but not too high. Tennessee is in a bad low in large part thanks to bad coaching.

If you really look at the low points of the above, you will see that it is bad coaching that puts them in a low point, a lack of continuity of more than 3 years by a staff keeps them there in the case of Tennessee.

Got to give you props for an outstanding post.

[Inhogswetrust]

It actually raised us up.  The only problems were Ford and Nutts.  If a high quality coach had been hired, we would have had at least two SEC championships by now.

Who would you blame for that (poor hires)?

IF you were the person doing the hiring and someone said you can hire a coach that has been 96-29-4 AND had won a National Championship then you would hire them and believe they would do well. That is what happened with Ford. It didn't work out for him and us at Arkansas like it did at Clemson but it doesn't always work out for every coach at every stop in their career.

[nextlevel]

IF you were the person doing the hiring and someone said you can hire a coach that has been 96-29-4 AND had won a National Championship then you would hire them and believe they would do well. That is what happened with Ford. It didn't work out for him and us Arkansas like it did at Clemson but it doesn't always work out for every coach at every stop in their career.

You can also add that Hatfield did great here, record wise, not so great at Clemson, so if Ford did great at Clemson, he should have a similar ceiling while at Arkansas if not higher. That would be the logic behind the hire to go along with his record and I think many forget he had an understanding of how the SEC was from his time at Bama.

It didn't work out, just as Holtz at Carolina didn't work out, Frachionne at aTm, Snellenberger (or however you spell it) at OU, etc.

[Inhogswetrust]

They've already fell back down after he left, they brought him back.

K-State is interesting due to how reliant they are on JUCOs, Snyder the first and second time as well as the guy in between all relied on JUCO recruiting.

You are correct. They have found a niche and exploited it to their benefit. Kudos to them. It is true they were down after he left but the deal is they hired the right coach again and it just so happens it was the same guy that made them successful in the first place. After their experiment with Ron Prince I wonder if some of them will be nervous as well when Snyder finally leaves for good. It will be interesting. They may fall down OR they may go even higher. You never know what will happen when hiring anyone in any capacity much less a coach.

[Hogwild]

We went from being a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in a big pond.  No the SEC when we joined wasn't what it is now, but it was still the best.  From '92-'03, SEC teams would win the national title in '92 Bama, '96 UF, '98 UT, '03 LSU. Auburn would go undefeated in '93 and UF would play in the title game in '95. 

The deck was stacked against us when we joined, because every SEC West team aside from us & LSU were busted by the NCAA for major violations during that span. That's 4 of our 5 divisional opponents were caught cheating. Yes it helped us in get to Atlanta when Bama was on probation, but for the most part if your opponents are cheating it doesn't benefit you. Look at the only other team that wasn't busted by the NCAA during that perios, LSU had their worst 6 year run in the 100+ year history of their program.

Yet despite our  handicaps when we joined the SEC we only lost 7 conference games our first two years in the SEC,  by comparison A&M (6), Mizzou (7), and USCe (10). Even despite our hard times I would rather compete against the best than win in the minor conferences.

[Inhogswetrust]

You can also add that Hatfield did great here, record wise, not so great at Clemson, so if Ford did great at Clemson, he should have a similar ceiling while at Arkansas if not higher. That would be the logic behind the hire to go along with his record and I think many forget he had an understanding of how the SEC was from his time at Bama.

It didn't work out, just as Holtz at Carolina didn't work out, Frachionne at aTm, Snellenberger (or however you spell it) at OU, etc.

Exactly! It is always about getting the right coach in the right place at the right time. The problem is you never know in advance who, where and when that is!

[Hogwild]

It didn't work out, just as Holtz at Carolina didn't work out,

No he didn't have a winning record but by South Carolina standards it worked out.  98&99 seasons only produced one win for the cocks, in Holtz 2nd and 3rd seasons they beat Ohio State in New Year's Day Bowl games.

By his 3rd season Holtz had tripled the number of bowl wins South Carolina had in its schools history.

[GTOWNHOG]

I go by what we have accomplished, and sadly we do not have a very impressive conference record over the last 22 years.  I now attend all games in Fayetteville mainly so I can associate with my friends at tailgate parties and to watch the game.  Since I am older now (60's), I no longer get upset at our team's performance.  They are doing the best that they can with the talent that we have.

If we are ever to get over the hump and actually win an SEC Championship, it will take two things:

1.  RECRUIT and SIGN superior athletes.
2.  A quality Head Coach and coaching staff.

We have some of the very best facilities in the conference, so we are equal to the elites there. :razorback:

[Hog Fan...DOH!]

You can also add that Hatfield did great here, record wise, not so great at Clemson, so if Ford did great at Clemson, he should have a similar ceiling while at Arkansas if not higher. That would be the logic behind the hire to go along with his record and I think many forget he had an understanding of how the SEC was from his time at Bama.

It didn't work out, just as Holtz at Carolina didn't work out, Frachionne at aTm, Snellenberger (or however you spell it) at OU, etc.

Hatfield won a conference title and went 32-13 at Clemson.  Pretty good.  I think he ran into the same problems there as he did at Arkansas.  There must have been something that just rubbed people the wrong way.  He was 8-3 his last season when they didn't renew his contract.  Probably didn't help that Florida State has just risen to prominence. 

[Tusks]

Coaching, coaching, coaching, coaching......

how many years between UGA SECC ?  Go look at how long it had been since GA won a SECC until CMR won his first.

It was over 20 YEARS and they are a founding member of the SEC.  So with all resources at UGA, Goff and Donnan couldn't get it done.  Enter a great coach, Ritch and he wins their first SECC in over 20 years.  Great coaching is the key.  I consider great coaching as a great recruiter, great manager of fantastic assistant coaches, great X&O, great game manager and a great motivator.

I'm hoping that in a few years we find that CBB can pull all those things together on the hill.

Mike Irwin said it all.....CBB is the first coach without a personal agenda to coach for the hogs since entering the SEC....ding ding ding.

The hogs are not doomed the program just can't get out of it's own way.

[nextlevel]

UGA went a decade between championships, same with Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, and Bama came close. That's 5/6th of the so called big 6.

The only consistent performer since expansion would be Florida, yet Florida was a non factor for most of the SEC's history prior, similar to aTm in the SWC when they would have an up year when the rest of the league was down.

[Tusks]

TWO decades.

UGA went a decade between championships, same with Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, and Bama came close. That's 5/6th of the so called big 6.

The only consistent performer since expansion would be Florida, yet Florida was a non factor for most of the SEC's history prior, similar to aTm in the SWC when they would have an up year when the rest of the league was down.

[LZH]

When we joined in 1992, the only great team was Alabama. Florida and Georgia were decent, is all (though the Gators were on the way up). We actually won at Tennessee, which otherwise won 9 games. Everybody else was mediocre to bad. LSU was awful.

^^^^  Saved me from typing the exact same thing.

[Hoggish1]

+1

Our first DECADE in the SEC...was at the mercy...not of conference powerhouses... but of Houston Nutt.

We weren't mediocre because we are Arkansas. We were mediocre because our coach was...and our PTBs were satisfied with it.

And all of those people are finally gone.

Admittedly, it will take some time to prove that Arkansas' people are NOT mediocre. We're mean, don't back down, wild Hogs. And we WILL run our tusks right into your guts.

This ain't over. Its just begun.

I like this post a lot!

[Locutus_of_Boar]

Friends of mine were talking to me saying that arkansas' progress and lack of a conf title was already forseen and hinted before they moved to the SEC. One brought up the point that we had a 22-34 record vs the SEC before joining. Another said that even in our heyday in the 60s and 70s we were still a combined 3-8. While i can see what they are saying, i jusr refuse to believe it. The SEC just has gotten stronger. Plus arkansas has been to three seccg, more than any team who hasn won a seccg. in the strongest division at that. But what is your take? Were we doomed from the start joining the SEC or do we just need more time?

The day Arkansas joined the SEC...Jack Crowe was the coach.

The first season in the SEC was under an interim coach.

When Danny Ford finally assembled enough talent to compete in the SEC...John White's committee hired Houston Dale to waste that talent for another decade.

When Arkansas finally hired an SEC caliber coach and started being what it is capable of being he ran the program off into the ditch.

Throw in another interim coach and another build from scratch after that.

Being in the SEC these last 22 years isn't the issue.  With the combination of poor choices and bad luck with its coaches, Arkansas would have been "doomed" even if it had joined the Sunbelt.

[cosmodrum]

The minute you start thinking you'd be better off in the 2nd or 3rd best conference it's time  to run up the white flag.

Some people give up and settle for less. Others keep battling no matter how frustrating it gets.

Definition of insanity and what not

[PonderinHog]

The day Arkansas joined the SEC...Jack Crowe was the coach.

The first season in the SEC was under an interim coach.

When Danny Ford finally assembled enough talent to compete in the SEC...John White's committee hired Houston Dale to waste that talent for another decade.

When Arkansas finally hired an SEC caliber coach and started being what it is capable of being he ran the program off into the ditch.

Throw in another interim coach and another build from scratch after that.

Being in the SEC these last 22 years isn't the issue.  With the combination of poor choices and bad luck with its coaches, Arkansas would have been "doomed" even if it had joined the Sunbelt.

Are you saying that we have lacked stability since joining the SEC

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

At one point, LSU had a losing record to the school's in the big east, so I guess that would mean LSU couldn't compete in the big east.

Ole Miss hasn't won a SEC title since the 60s, Kentucky since the 70s, Ms. State since the 40s, Vandy since the early 20th century, Carolina has one conference championship in their programs history in the 60s.

GT was a powerhouse while in the SEC, they have not been a national power in the ACC for a while now, although they do have a MNC that is more recent than UGA, so I guess the ACC is stronger than the SEC.

The SEC gained a bowl record lead against the B1G just recently, in the past 5 years, the regular season record is in the B1G's favor, IIRC, so the B1G must be stronger than the SEC.

You can create all kinds of hyperboles and strawmen with the data out there. In Arkansas' case, it is more of a reflection of bad coaching and bad coaching staffs from 1992-2008, or the majority of our time in the conference, we have just recently entered the coaching arms race. LSU was god awful in the late 80s-2000 due to bad coach, Bama was greatly down in the 2000s due to bad coach and cheating, Florida has hit low points in the same time period under Zook and Muschamp, Carolina has only his a high with Spurrier, UGA has been consistent with Richt, not too low, but not too high. Tennessee is in a bad low in large part thanks to bad coaching.

If you really look at the low points of the above, you will see that it is bad coaching that puts them in a low point, a lack of continuity of more than 3 years by a staff keeps them there in the case of Tennessee.

Nailed it... +1

[Steef]

Are you saying that we have lacked stability since joining the SEC

No. It means Frank should have considered getting us into the SEC as his crowning achievement (it was) and retired on the spot, going out as a champ.

[hogsanity]

Financially, the move to the SEC was brilliant.  For COMPETITIVE abilities, the best move would have been to try to get into the BIG10 somehow. You don't need the stockpile of athletes that you need in the SEC for football, basketball either until very recently, and we would have dominated baseball, track, and a couple other sports that most people don't care about.

[PonderinHog]

No. It means Frank should have considered getting us into the SEC as his crowning achievement (it was) and retired on the spot, going out as a champ.

Hindsight, Steef.  Don't you know Frank wanted a SEC football championship as his crown jewel?

[Inhogswetrust]

Financially, the move to the SEC was brilliant.  For COMPETITIVE abilities, the best move would have been to try to get into the BIG10 somehow. You don't need the stockpile of athletes that you need in the SEC for football, basketball either until very recently, and we would have dominated baseball, track, and a couple other sports that most people don't care about.

Obviously you haven't checked our record against the Big10......................................

[PonderinHog]

Obviously you haven't checked our record against the Big10......................................

or a map - and the academic requirements for joining the Big 10.   

[Steef]

Hindsight, Steef.  Don't you know Frank wanted a SEC football championship as his crown jewel?

I just have trouble believing that Frank EVER thought Nutt could/would accomplish that.

Everyone else on the planet knew better. And Frank was not stupid.

A conundrum.

[PonderinHog]

I just have trouble believing that Frank EVER thought Nutt could/would accomplish that.

Everyone else on the planet knew better. And Frank was not stupid.

A conundrum.

He didn't.