Arkansas could have a turnaround similiar to Stanford

[JNunn]

IMO and I just have a feeling that Arkansas can have a similar program turnaround similar to Stanford. Not to long ago was Stanford in a similar situation like us. Here's my proof. What do you guys think.

Here's an eight year snapshot of Stanford's and our history since 2005.

 
Stanford
2006 Harris      1–11  1–8   10th   
2007 Harbaugh    4–8    3–6  T-7th   
2008 Harbaugh    5–7    4–5  T-6th   
2009 Harbaugh    8–5    6–3  T-2nd   L, Sun   
2010 Harbaugh    12–1  8–1   2nd     W,Orange  4th
2011 Shaw    11–2   8–1  T–1st (North)  L,Fiesta  7th 
2012 Shaw    12–2   8–1  T-1st (North)  W, Rose  6th   
2013 Shaw    11–3   7–2  T-1st (North)  L, Rose   10th 

Stanford Coaches: Walt Harris, John Haurbaugh, David Shaw


Arkansas:
2005 Houston Nutt      4–7    2–6     4th (West)   
2006 Houston Nutt      10–4  7–1     1st (West)    L,Capital One (The YR we play CBB)
2007 Houston Nutt
Reggie Herring            8–5    4–4     T-3rd (West)  L,Cotton   
2008 Bobby Petrino     5–7    4–4      T-5th (West)   
2009 Bobby Petrino     8–5    3–5      T-4th (West) W, Liberty   
2010 Bobby Petrino     10–3  6–2      T-2nd (West)  L, Sugar   12th
2011 Bobby Petrino     11–2  6–2       3rd (West)     W, Cotton 5th
2012 John L. Smith     4–8    2–6       6th (West)   
2013 Bret Bielema       3–9    0–8       7th (West) 



Arkansas Coaches: Houston Nutt, Reggie Herring, Bobby Petrino, John L. Smith, Bret Bielema

During the 8 yr. span, Stanford has a 60% win.% whereas Arkansas has a 55% win.%.

Source: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_Cardinal_football
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arkansas_Razorbacks_football_seasons

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

Stanford is the team that plays the most like we want to play on offense. Power Running with multiple TE's that can create mismatches against the Run and Pass.

[Al Boarland]

What conference is Stanford in?  Who are they competing with for recruits?

[MJ2]

What conference is Stanford in?  Who are they competing with for recruits?

Nuf said.

[JNunn]

...and when did Arkansas have a coach the caliber of Harbaugh?

Harbaugh had success at San Diego before going to Stanford. He struggled a bit ^^^ then figured it out and you see where he is now... CBB had success at Wisconsin.. struggled and who knows what the future holds. Just saying... Some coaches go through growing pains. Not all programs are built overnight like everyone expects. That's why I said Stanford.

[chitwnhog]

Bielema has said he wants Arkansas to look like Stanford.

[LZH]

I'd forgotten that Stanford was so crummy just a decade or so ago.

And I would have no problem whatsoever looking like Stanford.  That would mean that we're big and fast, and can block and tackle.  I'll take it all day long.

[chitwnhog]

I'd forgotten that Stanford was so crummy just a decade or so ago.

And I would have no problem whatsoever looking like Stanford.  That would mean that we're big and fast, and can block and tackle.  I'll take it all day long.

My thoughts exactly.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

Bielema has said he wants Arkansas to look like Stanford.

Would love to see it. They have owned Oregon.

[Fatty McGee]

Could happen. But most important factor is California recruiting base > Arkansas recruiting base.

[hawgsalot]

What conference is Stanford in?  Who are they competing with for recruits?

Oh I don't know the conference that's projected to have 2 teams in the final four this year?  I mean now all of a sudden you don't think the best HUNH team in the country is a good test, or USC, UCLA is good competition?

[Razorfox]

Makes sense since Stanford and Wisconsin looked very similar for a few years. 

[Hogwild]

Stanford Coaches: Walt Harris, John Haurbaugh, David Shaw

Has an interesting history with Jeff Long

[IUHog]

Could happen. But most important factor is California recruiting base > Arkansas recruiting base.

Gosh, if you look at it that way I guess little ole Arkansas should just give up football.

[hawgsalot]

Gosh, if you look at it that way I guess little ole Arkansas should just give up football.

TX>CA in recruits, but even then the requirements to get in Stanford are mucho tougher than AR so that offsets the CA advantage in my opine.

[popcornhog]

What conference is Stanford in?  Who are they competing with for recruits?

They're in the second best conference in America competing primarily with USC and Oregon.

[secfan30]

Harbaugh had success at San Diego before going to Stanford. He struggled a bit ^^^ then figured it out and you see where he is now... CBB had success at Wisconsin.. struggled and who knows what the future holds. Just saying... Some coaches go through growing pains. Not all programs are built overnight like everyone expects. That's why I said Stanford.

I like the comparison and hope it happens for us.

CBB did not forget to coach last year. The odds were stacked against us, as it would be any program that went through the 2 years we went through.

[870hogfan]

They're in the second best conference in America competing primarily with USC and Oregon.

Washington is no slouch either.

[Augustus]

Thought this chart might be of interest.

Nice find there. I was surprised at the level of "drop off" from Ohio to AL, LA

[Dark Helmet Hog]

They're in the second best conference in America competing primarily with USC and Oregon.

I don't think you can say they are competing with them primarily for recruits. Stanford recruits more nationally than perhaps any other D-1 school. Their academic standards make them unique in that regard.

http://www.cbssports.com/general/eye-on-sports/24609997/best-in-college-sports-stanfords-nerd-nation-is-no-1

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

They're in the second best conference in America competing primarily with USC and Oregon.

Yep, Oregon gave SEC team UT their largest defeat of the year last year 59-14. Not saying UT was good, but 8 other SEC teams had the chance to beat them worse.

Stanford dominated that Oregon team.

[Hogarusa]

What conference is Stanford in?  Who are they competing with for recruits?

What a tired argument this is.

Stanford is at a severe recruiting disadvantage.  They have become what they are now due to superb coaching and development.  Harbaugh and Shaw are 2 of the best in football in any level.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Could happen. But most important factor is California recruiting base > Arkansas recruiting base.

I don't disagree with the premise, but what about the difference in entrance standards? Not demeaning Arkansas at all, but doesn't Stanford require a tad more academically to gain admission? If so, that makes a difference as well. Just asking.

[Big Papa Satan]

Washington is no slouch either.

Don't sell Washington short.  They're a terrific slouch.

[Augustus]

What a tired argument this is.

Stanford is at a severe recruiting disadvantage.  They have become what they are now due to superb coaching and development.  Harbaugh and Shaw are 2 of the best in football in any level.

At a severe recruiting disadvantage to whom? Arkansas?  In the last decade, Stanford has had higher ranked classes than Arkansas in 5 of the last 10 years, 2004 - 2014 (per 24/7).

And, per the article that Seven linked... their only disadvantage may be self imposed? By limiting recruiting to only those that fit their standards, and who have already been accepted to the School (it appears based on HS academic performance).

[chitwnhog]

At a severe recruiting disadvantage to whom? Arkansas?  In the last decade, Stanford has had higher ranked classes than Arkansas in 5 of the last 10 years, 2004 - 2014 (per 24/7).

And, per the article that Seven linked... their only disadvantage may be self imposed? By limiting recruiting to only those that fit their standards, and who have already been accepted to the School (it appears based on HS academic performance).

Yeah...I think Arkansas plan should be to recruit well regionally and grab a few nationally. If we can do that then the years when we have a great in state crop of athletes we will do really well.

[Cave City Joe]

Looks like it took Harbaugh 3 years to have a winning season, so I guess I'll not complain about CBB's record....yet

[Al Boarland]

We need to be thinking Kansas St. and not Stanford. Same recruiting challenges. The more JUCOS we go after the better chance we have of competing. We just aren't going to beat LSU, UGA and Bama for recruits. Hell, we won't even get guys out of MS.

[arkbadger]

At a severe recruiting disadvantage to whom? Arkansas?  In the last decade, Stanford has had higher ranked classes than Arkansas in 5 of the last 10 years, 2004 - 2014 (per 24/7).

And, per the article that Seven linked... their only disadvantage may be self imposed? By limiting recruiting to only those that fit their standards, and who have already been accepted to the School (it appears based on HS academic performance).

I would also add that while having strict academic standards is self-imposed if you will, recruiting in California opens you up to an entirely different recruiting base.  while Arkansas as a state may not have as many recruits, they also normally don't have the amount of schools recruiting most players as they would in Cali.  Arkansas has a huge advantage with in-state players, Stanford, in most cases, does not.

[LZH]

I don't keep up with recruiting too much, so I'm not sure what kind of defense BB intends to have on the field in a couple of years.  But it does seem to me that our best defenses in the SEC era have been undersized, with the emphasis on speed rather than size and strength.  Turning safties into LB's, LB's into DE's, that kind of thing.  If BB can recruit those 6'3" 240lb 4.5 OLB's, then more power to him.  But it's been years since we've had anything like that....back to the Hatfield days.

I see what TCU has done over the past decade and think that would be a pretty damn good template for what we have here.  Now I'm no coach, but I do know that they run a two-deep 4-2-5 and do it with kids that OU and Texas pass on every year.  Play fast and wide, and keep the ball in the middle of the field as much as possible.  I think that's why Willie's defenses always did so well against the spread teams, because that's basically what he did.  But with the exception of Franklin, he just never had the MLB you need to be able to do that.

So, like I said, the comparisons with Stanford are fine with me.  I'm just not familiar enough with what BB did schematically at Wisconsin to know how close his defenses here will look like that....or if that's even what he's looking for at all.

[Fatty McGee]

Gosh, if you look at it that way I guess little ole Arkansas should just give up football.

Not at all.  I just said the comparison didn't work because of that, and most recruits go within 200 miles of home.  Stanford's academic appeal and ability to put you in the job market also gives it a leg up. 

California averages around 250 D-1 recruits a year.  What's Arkansas average?  10?  15?  Even with more schools to compete against, that's a pretty big advantage, and again, doesn't include the academic attraction of Stanford that we can't offer.

[Fatty McGee]

I don't disagree with the premise, but what about the difference in entrance standards? Not demeaning Arkansas at all, but doesn't Stanford require a tad more academically to gain admission? If so, that makes a difference as well. Just asking.

I think it does, but even with high academic schools the standards are usually bent to fit kids who might not otherwise qualify academically.  Maybe not to Kansas State levels.  And I think there is an offset the other way in that you're going to attract kids to the academics as well. 

[Hogwild]

I don't think you can say they are competing with them primarily for recruits. Stanford recruits more nationally than perhaps any other D-1 school. Their academic standards make them unique in that regard.

http://www.cbssports.com/general/eye-on-sports/24609997/best-in-college-sports-stanfords-nerd-nation-is-no-1

10 even 5 years ago, who could have guessed that South Carolina have the #1 sports program in the SEC. Wish they would show more than just the top 10 so I could see where we ranked.

[hawgsalot]

We need to be thinking Kansas St. and not Stanford. Same recruiting challenges. The more JUCOS we go after the better chance we have of competing. We just aren't going to beat LSU, UGA and Bama for recruits. Hell, we won't eve get guys out of MS.

Hmmm every coach we've had  beat LSU pretty regularly, fancy me not scared of their recruiting ratings.  Same goes for UGA, Auburn, USC, Ole Miss.  The only issue we've not been able to solve is Bamas Saben. 

KSU is probably you trolling because that's possibly the worst comparison in the history of comparison's if not.  Juco's don't work in the SEC traditionally, the teams that win not named bama and LSU, are teams that have multiple classes of good depth to go along with upperclassmen starters.  It's a must the CBB get his system in and stay awhile.  He has proven that he recruits both sides of the ball so we'll compete just fine with even Bama.

[TNhawgfan]

...and when did Arkansas have a coach the caliber of Harbaugh?

As a Niners fan, I would say never. Harbaugh blows away Petrino on every level of football coaching

[DoctorSusscrofa]

Some people don't know enough about football to know what conference Stanford is in.

[LZH]

As a Niners fan, I would say never. Harbaugh blows away Petrino on every level of football coaching

I understand what you're saying, but just because Petrino crapped on us and isn't here anymore doesn't mean he's any less of a coach.  He still is one of the top five offensive minds in football.....in ALL of football.  Are you willing to say that if you had to stop a team with a good QB and WR's from going 80 yards in two minutes for all the marbles, that you'd really rather see Petrino on that other sideline?  Not me.  Not in a million years.

[Hogarusa]

At a severe recruiting disadvantage to whom? Arkansas?  In the last decade, Stanford has had higher ranked classes than Arkansas in 5 of the last 10 years, 2004 - 2014 (per 24/7).

And, per the article that Seven linked... their only disadvantage may be self imposed? By limiting recruiting to only those that fit their standards, and who have already been accepted to the School (it appears based on HS academic performance).

No doubt its self imposed but it certainly qualifies as a disadvantage, no? Admittance rate of 5.7%

[GuvHog]

As a Niners fan, I would say never. Harbaugh blows away Petrino on every level of football coaching

But then again...The SEC blows away the PAC 12 in football too.

[Al Boarland]

Hmmm every coach we've had  beat LSU pretty regularly, fancy me not scared of their recruiting ratings.  Same goes for UGA, Auburn, USC, Ole Miss.  The only issue we've not been able to solve is Bamas Saben. 

KSU is probably you trolling because that's possibly the worst comparison in the history of comparison's if not.  Juco's don't work in the SEC traditionally, the teams that win not named bama and LSU, are teams that have multiple classes of good depth to go along with upperclassmen starters.  It's a must the CBB get his system in and stay awhile.  He has proven that he recruits both sides of the ball so we'll compete just fine with even Bama.

We'll revisit this in 3 years.

[870hogfan]

We'll revisit this in 3 years.

Ok Gus.

[ZERO]

Bill Snyder has figured out a nice system for Kansas State, and if his successor is smart, he'll do something similar. It's netted them a #1 ranking in the polls in '12, and #2 in '98. And that #2 ranking was in like the last week of the season in '98. So they came dangerously close to playing for the NC twice with Snyder and his methods.

However, Kansas State and Arkansas are two entirely different programs in two entirely different situations, and the route we're going is pretty similar to Stanford. I don't see why it's so far-fetched. The Pac-12 is, for my money, the second best conference in the league. USC, Oregon, and Stanford are all mighty powers. UCLA is coming up (likely going to be preseason top 10 in '14), and Washington will be there soon now that they have Peterson. And let's not forget Arizona State, who is probably going to start and finish in the top 25 next year.Stanford was a godawful suck-ass program for awhile, and if they can turn it around, there's no reason why we can't either.

[Pork Twain]

...and when did Arkansas have a coach the caliber of Harbaugh?

Well nobody wanted harbaugh before he became Harbaugh

[LZH]

Just to hit on this point for the fun of it.....I've heard this before, but what proof exists to substantiate this? 

I don't guess there is any, other than that's what he's been trading on for his entire career.  Years ago Tom Coughlin said Petrino was the best playcaller he'd ever seen.  Considering his recruiting record and his defensive problems and his arrogance, he HAS to be that good to keep getting these million-dollar jobs.

I'll just put it this way, I think he's one of the very best.  I know that's not worth anything, but I'd bet you'd find quite a few D1 and NFL coaches that would say the same thing.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

What conference is Stanford in?  Who are they competing with for recruits?

Fairly valid point, but the recent Stanford teams would still be a top 5 SEC team.  If BB has us at that level in a few years, then that would be tremendous.

[Deep Shoat]

I understand what you're saying, but just because Petrino crapped on us and isn't here anymore doesn't mean he's any less of a coach.  He still is one of the top five offensive minds in football.....in ALL of football.  Are you willing to say that if you had to stop a team with a good QB and WR's from going 80 yards in two minutes for all the marbles, that you'd really rather see Petrino on that other sideline?  Not me.  Not in a million years.

I'd put my money on Harbaugh's team stopping Bobby's 4 times out of 5. 

There is more than one way to win football games, and Harbaugh does it the more sustainable way.  He builds defense and takes advantage of the other teams mistakes.

[LZH]

Fair enough, LZH.  I was just curious.  Certainly when it comes to Petrino, opinions will vary widely but I definitely see the points you have made. 

He impressed the hell outta me from day one.  But I'd still like to kick him square in the nutz for what he did to our program, not to mention those kids.  I think he personally should write Tyler Wilson a half-million dollar check because there's no way TW falls to the third round if Petrino hadn't pulled the bs that he did and basically left everyone high and dry.

In my opinion, yeah, he is that good.  But I won't pull for Louisville ever again.

[Big Poppa Z]

I understand what you're saying, but just because Petrino crapped on us and isn't here anymore doesn't mean he's any less of a coach.

That depends upon what you believe a coach should do.

Destroying programs isn't at the top of my list.

I concur with Deep Shoat: Harbaugh's defense beats Bobby's offensive the vast majority of the time and in a more programmatically sustainable manner.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

The question will always be the same...can we get sufficient enough defensive talent to play like Stanford?  We already know we can get similar offensive talent.

[LZH]

I'd put my money on Harbaugh's team stopping Bobby's 4 times out of 5. 

There is more than one way to win football games, and Harbaugh does it the more sustainable way.  He builds defense and takes advantage of the other teams mistakes.

That could be true, probably is, but I was only referring to each coach as offensive coordinators/playcallers.  Who's offense would you rather NOT have to face in that two minute situation - Harbaugh or Petrino.  I've seen enough of Petrino to be convinced of what my answer is.