12th Angry Man: A&M threatens to sue Bills' fan site

[jbcarol]

A&M this week lodged two complaints and threatened legal action against four Buffalo Bills fans who run the [12thManThunder dot com] website

A&M owns the rights to the phrase 12th man, which it has traditionally used to refer to its fans. The university, which has owned the rights since 1990 and cites its use at Texas A&M since 1922, allows the Bills and Seattle Seahawks to pay a licensing fee for conditional use of the phrase.

Charles "Chuckie" Sonntag, a double amputee and cancer survivor, co-founded the site with three other Bills fans with the aim of keeping the Bills in Buffalo. The four are changing the site's name to BillsFanThunder.com, but Texas A&M spokesman Shane Hinckley said they have been too slow in doing so.

Sonntag: Why would they single out a disabled man?

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

Well, if everything I read in the article is true.....looks like A&M is making a big thing out of something very small.  In fact, this could very well end up being bad publicity for A&M (which it appears is already happening) Threatening to sue a small group, run by a double amputee (who gets $823 a month thru social security) over something like this.....is not the smartest thing A&M has done lately.  The group has agreed to change the name & says they are not making any money from it. A&M would be wise to back off of this issue a bit. Give this small group a little more time......& keep this out of the news. A&M has the right to have them change the name......but not wise to look like a bully doing it.

[Hawg_Thai'd]

Why does it have to be 12th MAN? Why can't it be 12th PERSON? Sounds as if A&M is a little sexist down there.

On a serious note, though, it sucks that a person such as Chuckie cannot do what they are doing. I think copyrighting has gone a little too far nowadays.

[onebadrubi]

Why does it have to be 12th MAN? Why can't it be 12th PERSON? Sounds as if A&M is a little sexist down there.

On a serious note, though, it sucks that a person such as Chuckie cannot do what they are doing. I think copyrighting has gone a little too far nowadays.

A university like A&M basically has the resources to do whatever it wants.  Not a single entity except for the Feds have as much resources as these larger colleges now. 

That being said, they guy has changed everything, the only thing left is to remove the signs around town, but A&M said he wasn't getting it done fast enough.  I hope they get what they got coming for this

[harley spoon]

Don't mess with the 12th Man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NUxFE2oJ-M

[jbcarol]

Bills Fan Thunder @12thManThunder  ·  14h
We have to please our friends in Texas so please follow us @BillsFanThunder. Thank you and see you over there.

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

Of all the things for Texas A&M to take up legally?  You would think they would have more pressing issues than this.  They evidently feel threatened by a very small group, lead by a double amputee living on social security.  Wished they would have thumbed their nose at A&M.....& renamed their group the......"11+1ManThunder "

[jbcarol]

Bills Fan Thunder @12thManThunder  ·  14h
We have to please our friends in Texas so please follow us @BillsFanThunder. Thank you and see you over there.

Bills Fan Thunder @12thManThunder  ·  Jul 11
Please follow us @BillsFanThunder. This account will be disappearing soon. Thank you

[hobhog]

Maybe we should sue the Washington Redskins for using our "Hogs" when referring to their lineman and fans that dress up like our mascot....

[jbcarol]

Mike Finger @mikefinger  ·  29m

If the Longhorns are left with only 12 men, will the Aggies sue them?


Batesville native Charlie Strong is not hesitant to dismiss players.

[Inhogswetrust]

Maybe we should sue the Washington Redskins for using our "Hogs" when referring to their lineman and fans that dress up like our mascot....

I believe that started when they had coaches that had been former Hog assistants in the past. Joe Gibbs and Don Breaux.

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

I believe that started when they had coaches that had been former Hog assistants in the past. Joe Gibbs and Don Breaux.

That was back when free speech was still ok.  Now that politically correct is trying to take over.....anything you say that they don't like.... could/will offend someone.

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

Mike Finger @mikefinger  ·  29m

If the Longhorns are left with only 12 men, will the Aggies sue them?


Batesville native Charlie Strong is not hesitant to dismiss players.

Good point, but this may involve other sports much sooner.

This means that many basketball teams ...will be just asking for lawsuits.  They need to have.... either 11 or 13 players listed........or it's,  off to... "court"....

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

What about Seattle?

[jbcarol]

In 1990 Texas A&M trademarked "12th Man."  In order to maintain trademark protection, trademark owners must defend against the infringement of their trademarks.  It is for this reason, that in 2006 Texas A&M filed a trademark lawsuit against the Seattle Seahawks stemming from the NFL team's use of the "12th Man" phrase.  The lawsuit was ultimately settled, the terms of which included the Seahawks paying Texas A&M $100,000 and a subsequent $5,000 annual licensing fee for five years with a right to renew the agreement thereafter.  In 2011 the Seahawks renewed the agreement for another five years, taking the deal through 2016.

As the 2016 expiration of the license agreement approaches and the success of the Seahawks continues to rise, reports indicate that the sides have begun renegotiation discussions.  However, newly minted issues will likely drive the licensing fee Texas A&M receives under the deal to dollar amounts much greater than $5,000 annually.

Under the current agreement, Texas A&M placed several limitations on the Seahawks' use of its 12th Man mark.  One of those limitations was a regional limitation, which only allows the Seahawks to use the trademark in Alaska, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Utah and Washington.  While the Seahawks cannot sell merchandise bearing the words "12th Man," the organization can distribute promotional materials in those states bearing the trademark.  The inclusion of such restraints by Texas A&M demonstrates the school's desire to limit the reach of the Seahawks' use of the trademark.

It is that desire to limit the Seahawks' reach in using the phrase "12th Man: that will likely up the ante in the trademark licensing renegotiations.  With the advent of new social media channels since the licensing agreement was first hatched and subsequently renewed, the Seahawks' usage of the mark has arguably seeped out of the geographic boundaries Texas A&M wanted to limit it to.  With nearly 1.5 million likes on Facebook and over 431,000 followers on Twitter and nearly 350,000 on Instagram, the social media reach of the Seahawks goes well beyond the Pacific Northwest.  The extent of that reach has led to a situation where from a social media standpoint, much of the usage of the phrase "12th Man" is attributed to the Seahawks...

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

jb always with the good info

[Hawg_Thai'd]

jb always with the good info

It amazes me that he keeps this site updated with the relevant stuff. I don't need ESPN. Just go see what JB has posted and follow from there. Great Job you do here JB! Thanks for all your hard work.

[HyperDrive]

The thing with trademarks is that you have to defend them or you lose them.  One of the ways someone can lose the rights to a legal trademark is by letting things like this slide.  It's a dumb feature of the law but in court if anyone can show instances where you knew of a violation of your trademark and you did nothing, it can be used to invalidate it completely and make it public domain.

I don't think they were singling out Sonntag.  But when they became aware of it, they were legally required to either get the site to sign a license to use the trademark or get them the change the name.