Tell me if you can recall

[Pork Twain]

Who is looking at the 2011 class as a good class?  I see three, maybe four difference makers.  Not only is that class weak on impact players, but it's also weak on depth.  Six offensive linemen are listed and all but one have been bounced by freshmen.  The 2012 class is slightly better.  It really doubles the number of impact players and provides better depth, but it's still not SEC level quality.

That's the issue.  Players from the 2010-2012 recruiting classes are supposed to be leaders on this team now.  The problem is they're not.  You have a handful of upperclassmen leaders in Flowers, Mitchel, Turner, etc.

Most of the team's best players are from the 2013 class and you can bet that even more 2014 commitments will player over upperclassmen this season.

I see the 2011 class as good, not great in terms of comparing it to other Arkansas classes to date.  BP listed 13 players that are solid contributors

2008>>2009<2010<2011<2012<<2013=2014<2015 so far

That is a good trend to be on.

[Biggus Piggus]

Who is looking at the 2011 class as a good class?

Uh, nobody? The 2012-14 groups look good.

[1highhog]

Biggus, sounds like to me you need to answer your own question for us. You do far more analytically that I could or would care to do. I do understand recruiting rankings are subjective and takes 2-3 years to see the value of classes but I do feel this staff in place will do more with less. Jury is obviously still out but I do think these guys will be coached up. I would like to see this discussion after CBB has gotten his 2-3 years of classes put together and then take a look-see.

Hawgey-Davidson, good job on spelling the word "analytically" for us.  Now, if you googled it, bad karma coming your way, but if you spelled it using your brain power, well then, class dismissed!

[JayBell]

Uh, nobody? The 2012-14 groups look good.

Okay, we've ruled out 2011.  By what metric does the 2012 class look good?  The class was ranked 34th at the time by Rivals (19th by Scout, still good for 8th out of 12 SEC teams).

It continued the former trend of high attrition rates with McKay, Flynn, Turner, Lowe, Holmes, Cowan and Buchanan all heading out within two years.  Considering the class only signed 23 players, that's nearly a third of the class.  It's not as bad as 2010 and 2011, but it's still higher than you want to see.

So there you're seeing issues with depth.  What about high-end talent and leadership?  Williams, Wise and Philon are excellent, but what about the rest?  Hines has had injury issues.  Peters and Collins have been good at times, but have never locked down consistent starting spots.  The receivers may show well at some point, but they could just as easily be overtaken by the 2014 commitments.  The other defensive linemen and tight ends have been overtaken by younger players.

If you're talking about a "good class," then you need more than three impact players and a bunch of roster fillers.  There are 22 positions on the field, just for starters.  So you need at least five impact players in every single class.  You need a few more that can develop and be leaders.  Who else in that class would you want Arkansas to rely on this year and next?  Hines?  Peters?  And...?

[JayBell]

Look, I'm one of the more optimistic guys on here.  I was calling for 6 wins last year when everyone was doubting the talent on the team.  The talent was there.  The confidence was not.

The 2013 team actually had a better foundation to build on than 2014, which is built on a bad 2011 class and a weak 2012 class.  There is a ton of freshman and sophomore talent on this team right now, but the leadership is lacking.

[hogsanity]

Okay, we've ruled out 2011.  By what metric does the 2012 class look good?  The class was ranked 34th at the time by Rivals (19th by Scout, still good for 8th out of 12 SEC teams).

It continued the former trend of high attrition rates with McKay, Flynn, Turner, Lowe, Holmes, Cowan and Buchanan all heading out within two years.  Considering the class only signed 23 players, that's nearly a third of the class.  It's not as bad as 2010 and 2011, but it's still higher than you want to see.

So there you're seeing issues with depth.  What about high-end talent and leadership?  Williams, Hodge and Philon are excellent, but what about the rest?  Hines has had injury issues.  Peters and Collins have been good at times, but have never locked down consistent starting spots.  The receivers may show well at some point, but they could just as easily be overtaken by the 2014 commitments.  The other defensive linemen and tight ends have been overtaken by younger players.

If you're talking about a "good class," then you need more than three impact players and a bunch of roster fillers.  There are 22 positions on the field, just for starters.  So you need at least five impact players in every single class.  You need a few more that can develop and be leaders.  Who else in that class would you want Arkansas to rely on this year and next?  Hines?  Peters?  And...?

09, 10, 11, & 12 all were about the same, 3-5 very talented players that did very well, and not much else. 4 years like that and you get what we have now and have had, NO DEPTH.  Of course the 09 class is all gone now, and maybe a couple rssrs left from 2010.  Not sure how many contributors are left from 11 and 12 classes. 

[RT1941]

Interesting question, but they have fourth- and fifth-year starters too.

LSU had a mass exodus of Jr.'s bolt for the NFL after the 2012 BCSNC game - it showed in their performance in 2013.  Neither LSU or Bama have many 5th yr starters, if you are a 5* stud you bolt for the pro's.

[Darren DeLoach]

I am beginning to think half this site was asleep the last 50 years. It's like they think we have Florida/Texas talent at our disposal.

I am good friends with William Hampton. We discuss recruiting from time to time; like everyone that is a fan. Will was a little recruited linebacker out of Forrest City. He was looking at Memphis, ASU, UAPB, Grambling, and a pathetic Ole Miss. When Frank saw him practice and then play, he got the offer. He sat in his coach's office with Coach Broyles, and was told this, "Here at Arkansas we take great pride in beating schools with the boys that Texas, Tennessee, and Oklahoma skip over." He added something else that Will remembers, and paraphrasing---even my best recruits only came because of relationships I have with their coach or parent or they were born to a family that were Razorback fans.

We were great in the past because our Head Coach could hire great assistants (Johnson, Switzer, Hatfield, Gibbs, Majors) that could recognize talent that the high profile schools did not recruit, and then coach them into greatness. The same must be true now as then. Nutt was too lazy/incompetent/insecure, Petrino too non-relational/controlling, Bielema is still yet to be determined. I believe based on his past that he is made of the same cloth that brought us to the peak of College Football all those years ago.

[Biggus Piggus]

Back when LSU won the national title in 2007, their senior starters were Early Doucet, Jacob Hester, Matt Flynn, Keith Zinger, Glenn Dorsey, Kirston Pittman, Ali Highsmith, Luke Sanders, Chevis Jackson and Jonathan Zenon. They also had some fourth-year junior starters (including Brett Helms).

The last two seasons have been anomalous for LSU, with a high number of early departures.

[HognotinMemphis]

I've always liked your dad.

Hogsanity nailed it.  Not enough seasoning yet.  Hogs will be good this year.  In the SEC, good is the enemy of great.

Thanks. He is a good man. And a wonderful Razorback fan. Not as cynical as me.

Wonder what our SEC record is since joining the conference?

[Pork Twain]

Thanks. He is a good man. And a wonderful Razorback fan. Not as cynical as me.

Wonder what our SEC record is since joining the conference?

I like your dad too.  You should have him get an account here to balance you out. 

Not good at all.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2013/sec-football-all-time-conference-records/

[three hog night]

I am beginning to think half this site was asleep the last 50 years. It's like they think we have Florida/Texas talent at our disposal.

I am good friends with William Hampton. We discuss recruiting from time to time; like everyone that is a fan. Will was a little recruited linebacker out of Forrest City. He was looking at Memphis, ASU, UAPB, Grambling, and a pathetic Ole Miss. When Frank saw him practice and then play, he got the offer. He sat in his coach's office with Coach Broyles, and was told this, "Here at Arkansas we take great pride in beating schools with the boys that Texas, Tennessee, and Oklahoma skip over." He added something else that Will remembers, and paraphrasing---even my best recruits only came because of relationships I have with their coach or parent or they were born to a family that were Razorback fans.

We were great in the past because our Head Coach could hire great assistants (Johnson, Switzer, Hatfield, Gibbs, Majors) that could recognize talent that the high profile schools did not recruit, and then coach them into greatness. The same must be true now as then. Nutt was too lazy/incompetent/insecure, Petrino too non-relational/controlling, Bielema is still yet to be determined. I believe based on his past that he is made of the same cloth that brought us to the peak of College Football all those years ago.

This is a real good story and I think you may be right about CBB and our future.

[JayBell]

Btw, I just now saw that Horace Arkadie transferred.  Chalk up another one gone from the 2011 class.  That's been the biggest issue with Petrino's classes.  The depth of Arkansas is going to be built on sophomores and juniors this season when it needs to be built on juniors, seniors and redshirt seniors.

[hogsanity]

Btw, I just now saw that Horace Arkadie transferred.  Chalk up another one gone from the 2011 class.  That's been the biggest issue with Petrino's classes.  The depth of Arkansas is going to be built on sophomores and juniors this season when it needs to be built on juniors, seniors and redshirt seniors.

No, the depth, heck most of the team, is built on fr, rsfr, and sophs.

[footballfan]

Has Arkansas ever had a football team built off at least three decent recruiting classes that wasn't good?

This year's team includes:

2010 - LB Mitchell, OL Charpentier, LB Carr, S Turner
2011 - QB B.Allen, RB Walker, S McKinney, OL Cook, OL Smothers, OL Beck, OL Danenhauer, OL Stringer, OL Ollison, DT Hodge, DE Flowers, S Gaines, CB Mitchel
2012 - RB Williams, WR Hatcher, WR Hawkins, WR Wilson, DT Ward, OL Boyd, DE Wise, DT Johnson, DT Philon, DE Winston, TE Sprinkle, DE Lewis, LB Peters, CB Hines, CB Collins
2013 - QB A.Allen, WR Mitchell, RB Collins, RB Evans, RB Marshall, WR Morgan, TE Henry, OL Skipper, OL McClure, OL Kirkland, OL Koehler, DT Marks, DE Beanum, LB Ellis, LB Spaight, LB Brignoni, S Coley, CB Dean, S Coleman, CB Washington, P Irwin-Hill
2014 - QB Peavey, RB Day, S Liddell, WR Edwards, WR Cornelius, WR Hollister, TE Kraus, OL Wallace, OL Tretola, OL Ragnow, DT Jackson, DT Watts, DE Hall, DE Brown, LB Hackett, LB Williams, S Ramirez, LB Eugene, LB Ramsey, WR Robinson, CB Floyd, CB Toliver, K Hedlund

I don't know. Seems like three good classes in a row. And we have at least eight starters from 2010-11.

Edited to delete Cowan. He is gone according to Coach Bielema.

Define three good classes in a row. A certain number of stars? Good compared to classes around us? Good as in surpassing a certain ranking nationally (say, top 25 or so?) Please define "good." Until you do, every response in this thread is essentially meaningless because each person may or may not be talking about what you think a "good" class is.

[footballfan]

I am beginning to think half this site was asleep the last 50 years. It's like they think we have Florida/Texas talent at our disposal.

I am good friends with William Hampton. We discuss recruiting from time to time; like everyone that is a fan. Will was a little recruited linebacker out of Forrest City. He was looking at Memphis, ASU, UAPB, Grambling, and a pathetic Ole Miss. When Frank saw him practice and then play, he got the offer. He sat in his coach's office with Coach Broyles, and was told this, "Here at Arkansas we take great pride in beating schools with the boys that Texas, Tennessee, and Oklahoma skip over." He added something else that Will remembers, and paraphrasing---even my best recruits only came because of relationships I have with their coach or parent or they were born to a family that were Razorback fans.

We were great in the past because our Head Coach could hire great assistants (Johnson, Switzer, Hatfield, Gibbs, Majors) that could recognize talent that the high profile schools did not recruit, and then coach them into greatness. The same must be true now as then. Nutt was too lazy/incompetent/insecure, Petrino too non-relational/controlling, Bielema is still yet to be determined. I believe based on his past that he is made of the same cloth that brought us to the peak of College Football all those years ago.

What evidence, other than your assertion, do you have that what was true in the segregated era of the (largely) one platoon 1960's is true now?