What happens after the US is out of the World Cup?

[TX HOG]

Of course better athletes would help.  Do they have to be 6'2 225?  No.  That's called a strawman.  And the reason I said we need it to be popular in the ghetto is because popular sports get support from the community.  Which means funds and coaching.

Our tier 3 athletes are the equal of most of the worlds tier 1s.  We prove it every 2 years at the Olympics.  We proved it when we won work titles in bball and baseball with collegians. 

Sorry you guys are affronted by the idea of letting the blacks take over your sport.

I agree. I don't feel our tier one athletes are playing soccer. I don't care what color they are. It just happens that most of our tier 1 athletes are African-Americans. I do think that coaching fundamentals is just as important if not more important

[coastalrazorback]

Also, I don't want to harp on the African-American athleticism thing. I really don't! I just know that America's best athletes in general are African-Americans. Imagine if more of our greater athletes took up soccer and fundamentals and coaching were able to improve...

I see where you are coming from but I think the argument against this is that the elite soccer players aren't typically just freaks of nature athletically. You certainly have to possess a high level of athleticism in soccer to be successful, but pure athleticism doesn't tend to transcend the sport of soccer like it does in some other sports.

[TX HOG]

I see where you are coming from but I think the argument against this is that the elite soccer players aren't typically just freaks of nature athletically. You certainly have to possess a high level of athleticism in soccer to be successful, but pure athleticism doesn't tend to transcend the sport of soccer like it does in some other sports.

Interesting. But it sure couldn't hurt to have our best athletes developing soccer skills that a young age. Lol.

[TX HOG]

I agree coaching and coaching fundamentals is a MUST

[coastalrazorback]

Interesting. But it sure couldn't hurt to have our best athletes developing soccer skills that a young age. Lol.

I agree, but I think it has a little more to do with the level of competition and coaching at the young age. You are beginning to see some home grown athletes that are quite respectable come up in areas that have a highly developed soccer system from the ground up. Yedlin from Seattle, Besler from Kansas City, Graham Zusi from Florida, Altidore from Florida, and some might say Bradley from Cali even though his father being a coach gives him a slightly different status.

These guys are all the future and they all came areas where youth soccer is at a higher level of development than the rest of the country. While these guys might not be considered elite in comparison with the rest of the world, they aren't far off.

[JayBell]

Sorry you guys are affronted by the idea of letting the blacks take over your sport.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[DukeOfPork]

Why don't our players possess the same fundamentals if it's something that can be taught? Does it all come down to coaching during the younger ages?

It's fundamentals AND skill.

Coaching is absolutely a huge part of it, but you have to develop the skills as well. 

Bo Jackson was a hell of an athlete - certainly more athletic than any Belgian athlete in history - but I suspect that he would have been a disaster had he tried to pick up soccer at the height of his athletic prowess.

He lacked the skills.

[TX HOG]

It's fundamentals AND skill.

Coaching is absolutely a huge part of it, but you have to develop the skills as well. 

Bo Jackson was a hell of an athlete - certainly more athletic than any Belgian athlete in history - but I suspect that he would have been a disaster had he tried to pick up soccer at the height of his athletic prowess.

He lacked the skills.

I completely agree. But I think we need to find the bo Jackson's at a young age and develop them from there. Get some of our best athletes in the country started on soccer at a young age

[DukeOfPork]

Sorry you guys are affronted by the idea of letting the blacks take over your sport.

What the hell?

I assure you, the least racist, least homophobic demographic on this board is likely the denizens of the soccer threads. 

[JayBell]

I agree, but I think it has a little more to do with the level of competition and coaching at the young age. You are beginning to see some home grown athletes that are quite respectable come up in areas that have a highly developed soccer system from the ground up. Yedlin from Seattle, Besler from Kansas City, Graham Zusi from Florida, Altidore from Florida, and some might say Bradley from Cali even though his father being a coach gives him a slightly different status.

These guys are all the future and they all came areas where youth soccer is at a higher level of development than the rest of the country. While these guys might not be considered elite in comparison with the rest of the world, they aren't far off.

They're also of different ethnicities and three of them are what we are all considering to be "tier 1 athletes."  Zusi and Besler are "preppy white boys," but Besler was also one of the fastest guys on the team.  Altidore is the son of Haitian immigrants.  He was born in New Jersey and raised in Florida.  Yedlin is one-quarter black, one-quarter Native American and half-Latvian. He was raised by his grandparents, has never met his father and has recently begun to connect with his mother.

This idea that just getting more black kids to play will make the team better is just so unfounded.

[JayBell]

It's fundamentals AND skill.

Coaching is absolutely a huge part of it, but you have to develop the skills as well. 

Bo Jackson was a hell of an athlete - certainly more athletic than any Belgian athlete in history - but I suspect that he would have been a disaster had he tried to pick up soccer at the height of his athletic prowess.

He lacked the skills.

Anyone obsessed with this idea of athleticism needs to go look up Chad Johnson's attempt at trying to make the roster for Sporting Kansas City.  Ochocinco tried out for KC when he was 33 and still a prime, elite black athlete.  And he couldn't do it.  He couldn't even earn a legitimate roster spot several years ago when MLS was not as good.  He just did not have the soccer skills to go out there and compete

[TX HOG]

They're also of different ethnicities and three of them are what we are all considering to be "tier 1 athletes."  Zusi and Besler are "preppy white boys," but Besler was also one of the fastest guys on the team.  Altidore is the son of Haitian immigrants.  He was born in New Jersey and raised in Florida.  Yedlin is one-quarter black, one-quarter Native American and half-Latvian. He was raised by his grandparents, has never met his father and has recently begun to connect with his mother.

This idea that just getting more black kids to play will make the team better is just so unfounded.

I agree with we "just throw blacks out there" we will fail. But don't you agree that most of America's best athletes are African-American?

[TX HOG]

Not about throwing an athlete into soccer mid age. It's about taking our best athletes which more often than not are African-Americans and teaching them the fundamentals of soccer at a young age

[DukeOfPork]

They're also of different ethnicities and three of them are what we are all considering to be "tier 1 athletes."  Zusi and Besler are "preppy white boys," but Besler was also one of the fastest guys on the team.  Altidore is the son of Haitian immigrants.  He was born in New Jersey and raised in Florida.  Yedlin is one-quarter black, one-quarter Native American and half-Latvian. He was raised by his grandparents, has never met his father and has recently begun to connect with his mother.

This idea that just getting more black kids to play will make the team better is just so unfounded.

Yeah, and quite frankly, that is as American as it gets: a nation of immigrants.  Nearly everyone here is from somewhere else.  That's who we are.

Three of the four World Cup finalists had almost no black players, so I don't see that as "the answer".  Having said that, the USMNT will always have a higher number of black players than most countries because that is part of who we are. 

[TX HOG]

Maybe black athletes from other countries are not their greatest athletes. It just seems to me that in our country African-Americans are by percentages our greatest athletes

[JayBell]

Maybe black athletes from other countries are not their greatest athletes. It just seems to me that in our country African-Americans are by percentages our greatest athletes

Nobody is debating you on that.  What we are debating is this belief that getting more participation from African-Americans is the answer, when in reality it will only be part of the solution.

Everything in US Soccer right now is about "more."  We need more education, more coaches, more players, more training, more exposure, etc.  The US could eventually win the World Cup without ever having a Bo Jackson or Lebron James or Calvin Johnson type athlete.  Getting more elite athletes will help, but it won't solve any problems.

What the US needs (and is getting) is more, young, talented soccer players who are learning the game more effectively than they have before.  I had a post in one of these threads somewhere where I listed more than a dozen young attacking players between the ages of 17 and 22 who have all of those abilities we are looking for.  We just have to wait for them to come of age at this point.

[coastalrazorback]

Maybe black athletes from other countries are not their greatest athletes. It just seems to me that in our country African-Americans are by percentages our greatest athletes

I still am not sure if it will translate that way in soccer. We will always have great soccer players that are black, but I don't foresee all of our future national teams being majority black the way that the basketball team is. I really think that you have to look no further than Brazil to understand the fact that athleticism will not take over in soccer the way it does in football or basketball. Brazil has the same type of athletic citizens of African heritage that America has, and the Brazil teams are not predominantly black. They are mixed, just like I expect the American teams will remain.

[DukeOfPork]

Maybe black athletes from other countries are not their greatest athletes. It just seems to me that in our country African-Americans are by percentages our greatest athletes

I totally understand what you are saying.

But you have the perception that the "best athletes" are on display on every other nation's national team and that we just need to "out-athlete" them (because we are simply not going to match them on coaching for a couple more generations).

Let me submit to you that each of these countries' national teams do not necessarily consist of their "best athletes". 

Soccer is a completely different skill set and being "athletic" is just one component of success in this sport.  I think that raw athleticism is a much bigger factor in football and basketball success than soccer.

I've just watched a hell of a lot of top flight soccer and the best players are not typically the very best athletes.  They're the most SKILLED.  And I don't see one ethnicity dominating in that skill department like I do in the NFL and NBA.

[TX HOG]

y'all mentioned earlier important keys.  Coaching, fundamentals, and SKILL.  athletic skill??

[TX HOG]

can soccer skill be taught, practiced and improved like fundamentals can be taught, practiced, and improved?

[DukeOfPork]

y'all mentioned earlier important keys.  Coaching, fundamentals, and SKILL.  athletic skill??

Soccer skill.

Which is not necessarily "athleticism".

[TX HOG]

give me a list of most important areas USA soccer needs to improve in order to compete.

[TX HOG]

the thought that its not about finding and developing better soccer athletes at a young age is a new line of thinking for me

[DukeOfPork]

There are not many athletic "freaks" in top flight soccer the way that there are in the NBA and NFL.

It's just a different game.

Messi does not blow you away with his athleticism. 

Germany won the cup on a moment of brilliance that included a phenomenally skillful run and delivery from Schurrle and a clinical finish from Gotze.

Are Gotze and Schurrle "athletically superior" to USMNT players?  Nope.

[DukeOfPork]

give me a list of most important areas USA soccer needs to improve in order to compete.

Jay did above:

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=569694.msg9072715#msg9072715

[TX HOG]

more.  gotcha.  i can agree

[JayBell]

give me a list of most important areas USA soccer needs to improve in order to compete.

When it comes to skills:

Touch - the ability to receive a pass or loose ball and be able to control it immediately; it is the No. 1 indicator the quality of soccer skill a player possesses.
Passing/vision - American players are traditionally good crossers of the ball, but tend to be less effective than other countries at making incisive, smart passes that can set up goal scoring chances.
Shooting accuracy/movement - a lot of American goals are the result of hard work or set pieces; that's what made the Dempsey goal so fantastic was because he scored it so skillfully.  The US tends to score very few goals on direct free kicks because they don't have the skill to bend it around the defense and beat the goalkeeper.
Off the ball movement - the biggest change you'll see with national team players going from the World Cup to MLS is seeing them looking for options to pass to, but their teammates aren't in the right areas; movement is everything in soccer and older generations of Americans tend to be far behind other countries in terms of moving into the right spaces on offense.

[coastalrazorback]

give me a list of most important areas USA soccer needs to improve in order to compete.

If you give any credence to the pundits on ESPN (Ballack, Lalas, Twellman, di Silva), you would notice that they stated the U.S. is typically more athletic than the teams they play. Their issue is rooted in keeping possession. You keep possession by making smarter passes (this has to do with the passer and the receiver) and knowing when to dribble and have the ability to dribble efficiently without being disposed (i.e., Messi).

[TX HOG]

Are Gotze and Schurrle "athletically superior" to USMNT players?  Nope.

they were just developed better at a younger age? taught more and more quality teaching/coaching?

[coastalrazorback]

When it comes to skills:

Touch - the ability to receive a pass or loose ball and be able to control it immediately; it is the No. 1 indicator the quality of soccer skill a player possesses.
Passing/vision - American players are traditionally good crossers of the ball, but tend to be less effective than other countries at making incisive, smart passes that can set up goal scoring chances.
Off the ball movement - the biggest change you'll see with national team players going from the World Cup to MLS is seeing them looking for options to pass to, but their teammates aren't in the right areas; movement is everything in soccer and older generations of Americans tend to be far behind other countries in terms of moving into the right spaces on offense.

This sums it up nicely.

[TX HOG]

When it comes to skills:

Touch - the ability to receive a pass or loose ball and be able to control it immediately; it is the No. 1 indicator the quality of soccer skill a player possesses.
Passing/vision - American players are traditionally good crossers of the ball, but tend to be less effective than other countries at making incisive, smart passes that can set up goal scoring chances.
Off the ball movement - the biggest change you'll see with national team players going from the World Cup to MLS is seeing them looking for options to pass to, but their teammates aren't in the right areas; movement is everything in soccer and older generations of Americans tend to be far behind other countries in terms of moving into the right spaces on offense.

other countries do a better job at teaching these skills/fundamentals at a young age?

[JayBell]

The good thing is we are seeing those skills developed at the younger ages.  The US began a youth overhaul like the Germans about 15 years ago.  We just didn't do it near as good as they did.  We had to shift things again a few years ago to emphasize skill more.

The results are coming.  We just have to wait.

[JayBell]

American soccer teams tend to possess great work rates on the field (even if they're not in the best positions), great athleticism, grit, great defensive shape, solid defense on corner kicks and free kicks, scoring ability on free kicks and world class goalkeeping.

[TX HOG]

our athleticism is on par but our ability to make decisions quickly suffers.  its more about "knowing" where to go and where to be than athleticism 

[JayBell]

other countries do a better job at teaching these skills/fundamentals at a young age?

Yes.  Youth soccer in America has traditionally emphasized winning over development.  That's why they have too many games and too few training sessions.

That's where other countries are better.  Everyone in Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Brazil, Argentina, etc. all learn a particular style and the important soccer skills at a younger age.  Youth soccer in America has been too scattered.  I think the necessary changes are being made.

Look at England.  Damn near close to ALL of the best English athletes play soccer.  They play in academies from the time they can walk and soccer is the most glamorized profession in the country.  But they emphasize structure and winning in their youth levels more than skills and that is why they are falling behind the other top countries.

[TX HOG]

so if Bradley had grown up in the netherlands he'd probably be in a premier league and one of the best?

[DukeOfPork]

they were just developed better at a younger age? taught more and more quality teaching/coaching?

Sure they were.  Without a doubt.

But it was also a remarkably skillful play, yet neither of them are a freak of nature. 

If we had EVERYONE obsessively playing soccer in the US, we would find out who our most "skilled" soccer players are, but you would find that African Americans would not disproportionately dominate the USMNT roster the way that they do in the NBA and NFL. 

You are focusing on athletic ability (strength, speed, agility, etc.) when, in reality, that is a smaller component of success in soccer than in a lot of American sports.

[TX HOG]

I have a much better understanding of what it takes to be an elite soccer player. More development, better teaching, better system more so than athleticism. I did not realize our soccer players matched up well athletically with the other greats

[Deep Shoat]

Anyone obsessed with this idea of athleticism needs to go look up Chad Johnson's attempt at trying to make the roster for Sporting Kansas City.  Ochocinco tried out for KC when he was 33 and still a prime, elite black athlete.  And he couldn't do it.  He couldn't even earn a legitimate roster spot several years ago when MLS was not as good.  He just did not have the soccer skills to go out there and compete

It's like you're functionally retarded or something.

No one is saying athleticism wins without skills learned through hours and years of development.  Elite sprinters don't make it as WRs either.

Which is why I said you need soccer to become #3 in the ghetto.  That way, athleticism and training have a chance to merge in the next generation.

[redeye]

I still am not sure if it will translate that way in soccer. We will always have great soccer players that are black, but I don't foresee all of our future national teams being majority black the way that the basketball team is. I really think that you have to look no further than Brazil to understand the fact that athleticism will not take over in soccer the way it does in football or basketball. Brazil has the same type of athletic citizens of African heritage that America has, and the Brazil teams are not predominantly black. They are mixed, just like I expect the American teams will remain.

Good example.  There are plenty of good, black soccer players, but when has an African team won a WC?  One of the things I love about soccer is that it's not all about athleticism.

give me a list of most important areas USA soccer needs to improve in order to compete.

I think the big thing is learning how to operate as one, rather than a collection of individual accomplishments.  You could argue that football is similar, but it still relies more on individual play makers, such as a great DE pressuring the QB or a RB outrunning everyone on defense.   I'm not sure if others will agree, but I see DeMarcus Beasley as that type of infusion for the USMNT, but if the USMNT were world class, Beasley probably wouldn't make the team and it wouldn't have anything to do with him not being fast enough.

Btw, I love Beasley, so I'm not trying to criticize him, but just trying to access his abilities in an honest manner.

[redeye]

That was what Spain accomplished so well in 2010 and Germany did this year.  The sum of the individual parts thing here......

Yep.

I learned that the first time I played organized soccer and it stuck with me good.  I was probably 10 years old and we had a great coach, but we were mostly a team of misfits.  At the very first practice, the coach took 3 guys, who everyone thought were the 3 best players/athletes, and had them scrimmage against the 3 best passers on the team (one was a girl), while everyone watched.  The good passers destroyed the great athletes, even though there was one who was our league's version of Pele, because he was an incredible dribbler.

I think he did that specifically to make a point and to give us a real life example.

[Wildhog]

I will watch the U.S. in the World Cup, so long as I'm not doing something else.

[Hogsooey]

Yep.

I learned that the first time I played organized soccer and it stuck with me good.  I was probably 10 years old and we had a great coach, but we were mostly a team of misfits.  At the very first practice, the coach took 3 guys, who everyone thought were the 3 best players/athletes, and had them scrimmage against the 3 best passers on the team (one was a girl), while everyone watched.  The good passers destroyed the great athletes, even though there was one who was our league's version of Pele, because he was an incredible dribbler.

I think he did that specifically to make a point and to give us a real life example.

I read an article about this German memory genius who brought his talented U10 kid to train for a bit in San Diego at one of the better clubs here. He did some comparisons/contrasts about German soccer and USA soccer at the youth level. No real groundbreaking stuff in the article, but the biggest point that stuck out to me was this bit, which follows in line with what you were saying:

"Although I was amazed at the quality of the U.S. soccer kids, there was one thing we focus more on in Germany, and that is playing together as a team. Thus, passing the ball more often between each other, trying to run into empty spaces and using the whole soccer field. We try to let the ball do the work. Sometimes Dan's present coach really forbids the kids any dribbling and tells the players just to touch the ball maximally only 3 times – even in a liga game! Although this might be too extreme for that age (and also frustrates the kids quite a bit!) this is what an excellent soccer player has to be able to do eventually."

- See more at: http://www.soccernation.com/youth-soccer-comparison-usa-v-germany-cms-5729#sthash.CzX3lnNe.dpuf

[redeye]

I read an article about this German memory genius who brought his talented U10 kid to train for a bit in San Diego at one of the better clubs here. He did some comparisons/contrasts about German soccer and USA soccer at the youth level. No real groundbreaking stuff in the article, but the biggest point that stuck out to me was this bit, which follows in line with what you were saying:

"Although I was amazed at the quality of the U.S. soccer kids, there was one thing we focus more on in Germany, and that is playing together as a team. Thus, passing the ball more often between each other, trying to run into empty spaces and using the whole soccer field. We try to let the ball do the work. Sometimes Dan's present coach really forbids the kids any dribbling and tells the players just to touch the ball maximally only 3 times – even in a liga game! Although this might be too extreme for that age (and also frustrates the kids quite a bit!) this is what an excellent soccer player has to be able to do eventually."

- See more at: http://www.soccernation.com/youth-soccer-comparison-usa-v-germany-cms-5729#sthash.CzX3lnNe.dpuf

Thanks for sharing that!

This is why I've always enjoyed watching Germany play.  In our WC games against them in 2002 and this year, we spent the entire time chasing the ball and wearing ourselves out.  Germany creates spaces by using the whole field and maintaining positioning.  However, I have to give Argentina credit, because they really disrupted Germany's passing lanes and prevented them from using the whole field at most times.  Maybe someone better then I can explain how they did that, but it looked like they maintained constant positioning within Germany's passing lanes.

[Hogsooey]

These are old articles, but still interesting to look over to see what we are competing against.

Some about the German system and their reform efforts. I found this number interesting.  "According to Uefa, Germany has 28,400 (England 1,759) coaches with the B licence, 5,500 (895) with the A licence and 1,070 (115) with the Pro licence, the highest qualification." So, they are crushing England in the (likely more) qualified coaches category.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/may/23/germany-bust-boom-talent

And, if you want to read a really long article where Germany thumps its chest... including touting the 520 million Euros clubs invested in their youth academies from 2002-2010.

http://static.bundesliga.de/media/native/autosync/dfl_leistungszentren2011_gb.pdf

Or, how about one talking about the Dutch/Ajax way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&;

[redeye]

These are old articles, but still interesting to look over to see what we are competing against.

Some about the German system and their reform efforts. I found this number interesting.  "According to Uefa, Germany has 28,400 (England 1,759) coaches with the B licence, 5,500 (895) with the A licence and 1,070 (115) with the Pro licence, the highest qualification." So, they are crushing England in the (likely more) qualified coaches category.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/may/23/germany-bust-boom-talent

And, if you want to read a really long article where Germany thumps its chest... including touting the 520 million Euros clubs invested in their youth academies from 2002-2010.

http://static.bundesliga.de/media/native/autosync/dfl_leistungszentren2011_gb.pdf

Or, how about one talking about the Dutch/Ajax way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&;

Thanks!  It'll take me time to get through those, but I'll check them out.

I'm still learning how to be fan of professional soccer, since I've only followed World Cup action in the past.  I've been reading to figure out how it all works, and have learned a lot, including some on here. Part of the problem is finding a club to support, but I'm leaning toward Arsenal right now.  It would be interesting to hear how others chose the teams they follow.

[DukeOfPork]

Thanks!  It'll take me time to get through those, but I'll check them out.

I'm still learning how to be fan of professional soccer, since I've only followed World Cup action in the past.  I've been reading to figure out how it all works, and have learned a lot, including some on here. Part of the problem is finding a club to support, but I'm leaning toward Arsenal right now.  It would be interesting to hear how others chose the teams they follow.

Well, we should discuss club soccer in the Soccer Thread, but I definitely think you should go for Arsenal.

When I started watching 10 years ago, I sure as hell knew that I was going to root against Man United.  I already was drawn to Arsenal's very distinct style; no one in England played with the fluidity of the Gunners at that time.  Very easy on the eyes (they're still fairly distinct).

Then there was a huge game between Man United and Arsenal at Old Trafford where Wayne Rooney dove and won a penalty and ended Arsenal's historic unbeaten streak.  I was incensed.  I already hated United right out of the gate and then that happened.  Arsenal was their arch rivals at that time, and that appealed to me.

This was the night of "Pizza-gate" (or "The Battle of the Buffet").
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2476453/Arsenal-boss-Arsene-Wenger-recollects-pizza-gate-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.html

I quickly found myself watching every Arsenal game that was on and knew the whole roster within weeks.  Unfortunately, I became a Gunners fan at the end of their dominant era, so I didn't get to enjoy the spoils of that, but I have still seen some fantastic football in that time.

I live and die with each Arsenal game, more than I do for the Razorbacks.  That would have been unthinkable to me years ago, but it's a fact.

You'll have a lot of questions, so don't hesitate to post them in the Soccer Thread and we'll explain it all for you.  Feel free to post Arsenal questions as well.  It'll make everyone else nauseous, but hey, I endured a lot of Liverpool-centric discussion in past seasons in that thread.

[redeye]

Well, we should discuss club soccer in the Soccer Thread, but I definitely think you should go for Arsenal.

When I started watching 10 years ago, I sure as hell knew that I was going to root against Man United.  I already was drawn to Arsenal's very distinct style; no one in England played with the fluidity of the Gunners at that time.  Very easy on the eyes (they're still fairly distinct).

Then there was a huge game between Man United and Arsenal at Old Trafford where Wayne Rooney dove and won a penalty and ended Arsenal's historic unbeaten streak.  I was incensed.  I already hated United right out of the gate and then that happened.  Arsenal was their arch rivals at that time, and that appealed to me.

This was the night of "Pizza-gate" (or "The Battle of the Buffet").
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2476453/Arsenal-boss-Arsene-Wenger-recollects-pizza-gate-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.html

I quickly found myself watching every Arsenal game that was on and knew the whole roster within weeks.  Unfortunately, I became a Gunners fan at the end of their dominant era, so I didn't get to enjoy the spoils of that, but I have still seen some fantastic football in that time.

I live and die with each Arsenal game, more than I do for the Razorbacks.  That would have been unthinkable to me years ago, but it's a fact.

You'll have a lot of questions, so don't hesitate to post them in the Soccer Thread and we'll explain it all for you.  Feel free to post Arsenal questions as well.  It'll make everyone else nauseous, but hey, I endured a lot of Liverpool-centric discussion in past seasons in that thread.

Great stuff Duke!  I've been lurking and learning in the Soccer thread, even though I haven't posted there, yet.  Unlike my past failed attempts, I've been able to google for most of my answers this time, but I'm sure I'll have plenty about Arsenal for you.  I liked them before I realized that Zelahem is on the team, so that's just a possible added bonus.

Btw, I read that Tottenham Hotspur is Arsenal's biggest rival, so I'll guess that you don't like them, either?

I actually researched all the teams playing this year, and have a few others I'll watch, too, but I'm heavily leaning toward Arsenal at this time.  So far, the team I dislike the most is Chelsea, but I'm sure that'll change.

[JayBell]

It's like you're functionally retarded or something.

No one is saying athleticism wins without skills learned through hours and years of development.  Elite sprinters don't make it as WRs either.

Which is why I said you need soccer to become #3 in the ghetto.  That way, athleticism and training have a chance to merge in the next generation.

Classy.  Go ahead and resort to insults even though everyone who actually knows what they are talking about are telling you that you're wrong.

[JayBell]

so if Bradley had grown up in the netherlands he'd probably be in a premier league and one of the best?

Not necessarily.  There can be guys that stand out.  What has been impressive about Bradley is about how he has improved areas of his game over the past decade.

Bradley began in MLS at age 16 and started 30 games, learning to be a professional.  He sat for a year in the Netherlands and then exploded as an offensive force, refining his attacking game.  Next he went to Germany and played for several years, mainly developing his passing and defensive skills.  He was loaned to England, briefly, but then landed in Italy where his tactical positioning improved by leaps and bounds before returning to dominate MLS.

I'm also a firm believer in a European bias against American players.  There are dozens of examples of it.  Bradley pretty much never played during the six months he was at Aston Villa in the English Premier League.  He had trouble getting on the field behind a guy who is not even a lock starter now for the Vancouver Whitecaps in MLS.