What happens after the US is out of the World Cup?

[pigture perfect]

I would want them to win it all for Patriots sake, but this stuff is boring to watch.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

We can all go back to griping about the Hogs passing game, Bielema's play calling, the porous defense and the SEC refs.

[sickboy]

MLS is getting better and better. I've played and watched soccer my entire life and since I live in LA, I have a solid MLS squad to root for. In 10 more years... We're going to be a much more respected league there. But unless you have a team... Which most Arkansans don't naturally... then most people here won't keep watching.

I honestly think Arkansans would start to care about soccer if the university had a men's squad and started developing talent. Also, Arkansas doesn't have a solid youth program like other states.

If USA soccer is 10 to 15 years behind the world... Arkansas soccer is 50 years behind California, Texas and Virginia/Carolina.

[cbhawg03]

I had to watch Belgium game at work and my boss come in and watched towards first 15 of stoppage.

I had to talk him into watching any of it but he ended up watching some of all the games. He said it best when he left though before our goal, soccer is over in this country for 4 years. Sadly, but that's how many feel.

[JayBell]

I had to talk him into watching any of it but he ended up watching some of all the games. He said it best when he left though before our goal, soccer is over in this country for 4 years. Sadly, but that's how many feel.

It's how many feel, but it's not true.  Are we going to get 20 million people to watch any soccer game over the next four years?  Normally, I'd say no, but the Copa America in two years is going to be massive.

MLS is setting records in attendance and viewership in every way possible.  The viewership isn't on par with the other leagues, but the needle is moving.  For 90% of people, sure, soccer is over for four years, but that 10% grows every four years.  We probably saw the most growth in that 10% over the last three years than ever before.

[JayBell]

The US will have to perform well, but people will pay attention again in two years.  The Copa América Centenario will bring teams like Brazil, Argentina and Colombia to the US for actual competitive matches for the first time in 22 years.

You are going to see some absolutely massive live crowds and TV viewership for US, Mexico, Brazil and Argentina matches.  That same summer you'll also have the European Championships, which always get great numbers.

[Huckleberry Pig]

The US will have to perform well, but people will pay attention again in two years.  The Copa América Centenario will bring teams like Brazil, Argentina and Colombia to the US for actual competitive matches for the first time in 22 years.

You are going to see some absolutely massive live crowds and TV viewership for US, Mexico, Brazil and Argentina matches.  That same summer you'll also have the European Championships, which always get great numbers.

great points jay, will be a great summer of soccer!

[Huckleberry Pig]

MLS is getting better and better. I've played and watched soccer my entire life and since I live in LA, I have a solid MLS squad to root for. In 10 more years... We're going to be a much more respected league there. But unless you have a team... Which most Arkansans don't naturally... then most people here won't keep watching.

I honestly think Arkansans would start to care about soccer if the university had a men's squad and started developing talent. Also, Arkansas doesn't have a solid youth program like other states.

If USA soccer is 10 to 15 years behind the world... Arkansas soccer is 50 years behind California, Texas and Virginia/Carolina.

sadly this is true.

I played for the club team and many of the kids on it were from Arkansas club teams.  The club team I played on in Dallas woulda spanked our Arkansas club team bad.  Not trying to sound like a jack A, but Arkansas talent is far behind.  just being honest.

and you can thank title 9 for not having a real men's team.

[hoghappy]

My kids have soccer available for both boys and girls. Our girls team could beat the guys 3 out of 5. It won't ever be a major sport on any level until our best athletes start to play.

[Hogsooey]

My kids have soccer available for both boys and girls. Our girls team could beat the guys 3 out of 5. It won't ever be a major sport on any level until our best athletes start to play.

Anecdotal.  I live in Southern California, one of the most densely populated regions in the country.  The talent the boys have here is amazing.  There is a reason a professional team from Mexico is here all the time holding camps scouting for young talent (young as 5) for their academies.   

[Wild Bill Hog]

We all cheer for Costa Rica.

[pigture perfect]

Yeah, I was hoping Costa Rica would win.

[The Boar War]

If USA soccer is 10 to 15 years behind the world... Arkansas soccer is 50 years behind California, Texas and Virginia/Carolina.

In terms of talent, that seems a little extreme.  That being said I don't think the maturation of "soccer in america" is a matter of "years".  Americans are not going to send their children away to live in Columbus at the Crew's academy.  As long as the "major" sports use an 18 year local team, collegiate experience, professional draft method it won't happen in 10, 15, or 50 years.

[Dr. Starcs]

Just saw the score on espn.com. Good grief. Another 30 minutes of scoreless "action" coming up.

[Dr. Starcs]

What part of espn.com did you not understand.

[Dr. Starcs]

No. Simply a statement based on fact.

[Deep Shoat]

If America wants to be good at soccer, take soccer to the ghetto.

As long as it is preppy white boys, gays, and the local Latino's, we will keep sucking.

[JayBell]

If America wants to be good at soccer, take soccer to the ghetto.

As long as it is preppy white boys, gays, and the local Latino's, we will keep sucking.

That might be the dumbest, most ignorant post I've ever read on Hogville, which is no small feat.

[TX HOG]

Question.  Who funds team usa??

[TX HOG]

That might be the dumbest, most ignorant post I've ever read on Hogville, which is no small feat.

I think he's saying Americas top athletes are often African Americans.

[Deep Shoat]

That might be the dumbest, most ignorant post I've ever read on Hogville, which is no small feat.

No, it may be politically incorrect, but it isn't wrong.

Our third tier athletes are good enough to compete for World Cups.  If you made soccer a real choice for inner city kids, we would be in the elite group within 20 years.  But as long as the 'burbs are USA soccers feeder program, we remain mediocre.

Offensive?  Sure.  Wrong?  Not even close...

[TX HOG]

I agree. With America's population if we introduce soccer in the inner cities we would find plenty of superior soccer athletes

[TX HOG]

I don't think his statement was dumb or even politically incorrect. I believe it was just 100% factual

[Huckleberry Pig]

premier league starts august 16th!

[JayBell]

No, it may be politically incorrect, but it isn't wrong.

Our third tier athletes are good enough to compete for World Cups.  If you made soccer a real choice for inner city kids, we would be in the elite group within 20 years.  But as long as the 'burbs are USA soccers feeder program, we remain mediocre.

Offensive?  Sure.  Wrong?  Not even close...

Americans have taken this "if our best athletes played soccer" idea and beaten the $**t out of it.  Worse than that is the fact that it is blatantly not true.

If athleticism was the key to soccer then African teams would have been winning decades ago and a German team with a bunch of pale white technicians wouldn't have just dominated the World Cup.

Labeling ALL American soccer players as "preppy white boys, gays, and the local Latino's" is definitely offensive and also 100% false.  There are literally hundreds of professional soccer players in the US and of American descent who are the children of immigrants, have mixed parentage, grew up white and poor (we tend to forget that a lot in this country) and, yes, there's even some good old black dudes that play too.  Oh yeah, and gay guys play all other sports too.  They're just repressed by the stereotypical homophobia still lingering from the old guard.

The fact that you want to make an ignorant post and neglect the accomplishments of everyone in US Soccer, even the preppy white boys, is disgraceful.

I don't think his statement was dumb or even politically incorrect. I believe it was just 100% factual

The fact that you think it is 100% factual shows how painfully ignorant you are of it.  It's embarrassing that you want to lump a mixed guy with Tourette's, a kid from Kansas City, a guy from a trailer park in Texas, a black guy from Florida and New York, German players with American military fathers and Hispanic players from all over Latin America as "preppy white boys, gays, and the local Latino's."

[TX HOG]

What I'm saying is it seems 100% factual that most of Americas best athletes are African American. I would say most of our summer Olympians are African Americans. Most of the "speed" and agile athletes in football are African Americans. With the huge population advantage we have plus endless funds I don't see why we can't be consistent top 10. Soccer is not in our culture like other countries, this is true. Neither are winter sports really, but we compete and often beat every other country in the world in winter events.

[TX HOG]

I also believe competing is a bigger ordeal than just better athletes. If we are ever going to be a top contender need better athletes and it has to become more mainstreamed. This is a looooong process and may never be achieved.

[Hogsooey]

No, it may be politically incorrect, but it isn't wrong.

Our third tier athletes are good enough to compete for World Cups.  If you made soccer a real choice for inner city kids, we would be in the elite group within 20 years.  But as long as the 'burbs are USA soccers feeder program, we remain mediocre.

Offensive?  Sure.  Wrong?  Not even close...

How did you determine that our soccer players are third tier athletes? We had around nine black guys on the team. What about those guys are so unathletic? The two World Cup players that have most USA fans excited about the future are two (athletic) kids that measure in at 5'7"/140 and 5'8"/150. Those are not your prototypical NBA or NFL measurements.

The team that just won the World Cup and was the best team... Most of their top players are middle to upper middle class white guys. Same goes for another team in the semis, the Dutch. Their kids have significant training/coaching from professional coaches in clubs from a very young age. That's one of the major reasons they are so good - something your model to be elite has no account for. And the guy who scored the winning goal and is considered the most talented German player by many, Mario Goetze. 5'9"/140 white guy. He'd probably be cast aside here in USA sports.

If we had tons more inner city kids playing soccer, sure the team would be better. Elite in 20 years is just making stuff up. People, including Pele, thought an African country would win the World Cup before 2000, primarily due to their athleticism and sheer numbers of people that play soccer there (check out Nigeria's population). Hasn't come close to happening.

There is this idea that guys like Lebron would be great soccer players. Possible, but there is no evidence to support it. Brazil has a large black population, is a soccer mad country, and has plenty of tall people (including NBA players). They are not producing 6'2" plus soccer stars? Why not?

[TX HOG]

Do these African countries have significantly smaller populations?

[JayBell]

Do these African countries have significantly smaller populations?

Nigeria is the seventh most populous country on Earth with approximately 178 million people.  Some more in the top 25:

14. Ethiopia, 88 million
15. Egypt, 87 million
25. South Africa, 53 million

Algeria has 39 million, Ghana has 27 million and the Ivory Coast has 23 million.  For comparison to the world's soccer powers: Germany, 81 million; France, 66 million; Italy, 61 million; Spain, 47 million; Argentina, 43 million; Netherlands, 17 million; Uruguay, 3 million.

Population has nothing to do with it.  Of the eight most populous countries in the world, only Brazil, Nigeria and the US have had any kind of significant soccer success.  The rest are China, India, Indonesia, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

[TX HOG]

Population plays a part. 5a schools vs 2a schools. More to pick from better chance of finding athletes. All I'm saying is if we want to compete in the top 10, we need better soccer players and better athletes. Most of Americas athletes(size, speed, agility) are African Americans.

[TX HOG]

For some reason those same African countries don't achieve high athletic accolades in other major sports to my knowledge.

[TX HOG]

Maybe it just makes sense to me. Better soccer culture plus better soccer athletes= better soccer play.

[TX HOG]

Btw. I'm not a soccer guru. I enjoy the sport at times and have great respect for the players. I want to take something that the "world" is quite a bit better than us at and compete with them. "We see your sport and beat you at YOUR sport". Call american pride or arrogance.  I'll take either or both. Lol

[coastalrazorback]

In the early 90's, the American soccer federation made a concerted effort to bring America to a competitive level in the world stage. Results show that it has been a success.
- USA has now qualified for 7 world cups in a row (1990-2014), after failing to qualify for the previous 9(!) world cups (1954-1986). This is success by any measure of the word.
- USA has made it out of the knockout round for consecutive world cups for the first time in their history. And make no mistake about it, Group G was absolutely stacked this past year.
- MLS is more profitable and successful than it was ever dreamed of being, and they are getting ready to sign tv contracts that will give it more air time and higher profitability.

So it would be silly to say that the state of USA soccer hasn't vastly improved. However, I think that the two primary questions at hand are: can the USA break into the next level of competing for championships, and can the USA sustain the popularity that is has gained. The statistics show that the answer to both of those questions are yes.
- We currently have more young players than ever playing for the big leagues in Europe (John Brooks, Aron Johannson, Julian Green, and with an upcoming record transfer fee Deandre Yedlin). Yedlin is a homegrown kid of African American descent btw. And the respectability of the MLS teams are growing by the year.
- Lets talk about popularity. This following statement is going to earn me plenty of smites, but oh well. Would you care to look at the polls that show soccer is set to overtake baseball in popularity? This will seem impossible to many on this board, but it also seemed impossible that football would pass baseball in popularity 50 years ago. It also seemed impossible that basketball would pass baseball 20 years ago. But it has happened and it will probably happen with soccer as well.
See article here:
http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/1740529/mls-catches-mlb-in-popularity-with-kidssays-espn-poll
And please note that this poll was taken before world cup fever hit.

Here are two trends, that in my mind, guarantee the sustainability of soccer's popularity:
- The increased inflow of money for the sport.
- Far more importantly, the ever increasing Latino population in our country, and the upward financial mobility of said Latino population. Soccer is the sport of Latin Americans. Latin Americans have already become the leading minority and it is a demographic that is growing fast. The latin American culture is quickly becoming a part of the American culture, therefore I see no way that the popularity of soccer does anything but increase. And make no mistake, the popularity is growing in the other demographics.

Do I think that soccer will become America's most popular sport? Nope. Do I think that it will become one of America's major sports? Yup, and I think that it will happen in our life times.

[Hogfaniam]

Bring back the MISL. It was ahead of its time.

[DukeOfPork]

Population plays a part. 5a schools vs 2a schools. More to pick from better chance of finding athletes. All I'm saying is if we want to compete in the top 10, we need better soccer players and better athletes. Most of Americas athletes(size, speed, agility) are African Americans.

While I completely understand your points and I do think there is an "element" of truth to them, one thing you should probably know is that the USMNT does not have a reputation of having a "lack of athleticism".  What they have a reputation for is having a "lack of proper soccer skills and fundamentals". 

I do think that not having a viable domestic league is the culprit for that.  MLS is gaining traction and the level of play, domestically, is increasing.

More African Americans playing would be a huge boost.  But like Jay said, Germany just schooled the entire world with a bunch of white guys who have highly developed soccer skills, both individually and collectively. 

So the solution isn't as simple as putting our best athletes on the pitch and letting them go at it.  There's just so much more to it.

[TX HOG]

I would say that the majority of Germany's athletes in general are white. Fundamentals are something that can be learned and taught and improved upon. I just can't help but think if our national team had better athletes most of them would be playing in the Premier leagues

[TX HOG]

I don't think we should just throw out our best athletes and say here you go...
It seems that on television most of our premier athletes are African-Americans. So with that in mind, if more African-American started playing soccer at a young age I can't help but think our national team would get better

[TX HOG]

I also agree with you that it starts the roots. Better coaching at a young age and all the way through high school

[JayBell]

I would say that the majority of Germany's athletes in general are white. Fundamentals are something that can be learned and taught and improved upon. I just can't help but think if our national team had better athletes most of them would be playing in the Premier leagues

Dude, when you're wrong, you're wrong.  Quit digging further.  You have multiple people who have been following soccer for years telling you that you're wrong.

Fundamentals are something that can be taught and learned, but some countries do it better than others.  That's why the Netherlands and Uruguay have found success historically despite having such small populations.

The US has had dozens of players in the EPL and even more played in the lower leagues in England.  That didn't change anything.  One of the weakest performers on the World Cup team, Geoff Cameron, started nearly every game last year for Stoke City.  Several of the best players, like Dempsey and Beckerman, are in MLS and are not considered elite athletes.  They're just some of our best soccer players because they have better skills.

[JayBell]

I don't think we should just throw out our best athletes and say here you go...
It seems that on television most of our premier athletes are African-Americans. So with that in mind, if more African-American started playing soccer at a young age I can't help but think our national team would get better

That's fine, but trying to ignorantly lump them all together as "preppy white boys, gays, and the local Latino's" is wrong in every possible way.

[TX HOG]

That's fine, but trying to ignorantly lump them all together as "preppy white boys, gays, and the local Latino's" is wrong in every possible way.

This I can agree with

[TX HOG]

Why am I wrong again? I don't think anybody is right or wrong. Just having a discussion...

Our development and coaching is probably significantly below other countries. I am a teacher for example, at our high school our soccer team is coached by a football coach. Basically because there's no one else to coach the soccer team. I heard commentator after the Belgium game say that zero of our players would've been starters on the Belgian team. So you believe the primary lack of success is due to coaching and fundamentals? Not athleticism?

[DukeOfPork]

Why am I wrong again? I don't think anybody is right or wrong. Just having a discussion...

Our development and coaching is probably significantly below other countries. I am a teacher for example, at our high school our soccer team is coached by a football coach. Basically because there's no one else to coach the soccer team. I heard commentator after the Belgium game say that zero of our players would've been starters on the Belgian team. So you believe the primary lack of success is due to coaching and fundamentals? Not athleticism?

I think that is probably true.  I mentioned it in the Belgium game thread that a starting XI of the US and Belgium would probably result in no US players.  Probably not even at goal keeper.

But an interesting discussion to have is whether Belgium is actually considerably more "athletic" than the USMNT. 

My gut feeling is that they are not.  Obviously, they have us beat on fundamentals.  And they are superior at every position in "soccer skills".

But I wouldn't say that they are more "athletic" than we are. 

[coastalrazorback]

I think that is probably true.  I mentioned it in the Belgium game thread that a starting XI of the US and Belgium would probably result in no US players.  Probably not even at goal keeper.

But an interesting discussion to have is whether Belgium is actually considerably more "athletic" than the USMNT. 

My gut feeling is that they are not.  Obviously, they have us beat on fundamentals.  And they are superior at every position in "soccer skills".

But I wouldn't say that they are more "athletic" than we are.

As for athleticism, I would call it a wash.

[TX HOG]

I think that is probably true.  I mentioned it in the Belgium game thread that a starting XI of the US and Belgium would probably result in no US players.  Probably not even at goal keeper.

But an interesting discussion to have is whether Belgium is actually considerably more "athletic" than the USMNT. 

My gut feeling is that they are not.  Obviously, they have us beat on fundamentals.  And they are superior at every position in "soccer skills".

But I wouldn't say that they are more "athletic" than we are. 

Why don't our players possess the same fundamentals if it's something that can be taught? Does it all come down to coaching during the younger ages?

[TX HOG]

I would speculate that our national team members have been playing soccer just as long as the other countries national team players

[TX HOG]

Also, I don't want to harp on the African-American athleticism thing. I really don't! I just know that America's best athletes in general are African-Americans. Imagine if more of our greater athletes took up soccer and fundamentals and coaching were able to improve...

[Deep Shoat]

Of course better athletes would help.  Do they have to be 6'2 225?  No.  That's called a strawman.  And the reason I said we need it to be popular in the ghetto is because popular sports get support from the community.  Which means funds and coaching.

Our tier 3 athletes are the equal of most of the worlds tier 1s.  We prove it every 2 years at the Olympics.  We proved it when we won work titles in bball and baseball with collegians. 

Sorry you guys are affronted by the idea of letting the blacks take over your sport.