Could coach B be the savior?

[Peter Porker]

This thread is evidence that Al and I are not in agreement on several issues, but I do take issue with your attitude toward other Hog fans. Al is pulling for Gus, so what. Currently there is more to cheer for Gus than the Hogs.

But you have a bad habit of going after Hog fans who don't blindly follow the Hogs. Some of us can cheer for the Hogs and cheer for other teams. Even other SEC teams. I am a big time fan of Nick Saban hence my debating Al.

Disagree. I go after guys that like former coaches more than their team.

[WilsonHog]

Disagree. I go after guys that like former coaches more than their team.

"Going after" other posters is not the best move to make.

[ChitownHawg]

Disagree. I go after guys that like former coaches more than their team.

Never mind Wilson beat me to it by a nano of a second.

[Hawg_Thai'd]

Back to the topic, CBB very well could be the perfect fit or coaching savior, we just don't know yet.

Your whole statement was good, but the first sentence is all that needs to be said at this point. CBB is a good coach. It's going to take a bit of time to see how good he does here. I'm rootin' for him though.

[hawgsalot]

Bielema and Nutt are the exact same coach in pressure situations. Don't expect any BP-esque play calls that catch the opponent with their pants down.

We won't run Nutt's offense, but we'll have similar frustrations and records on the field. If you can't out scheme, you've got to have better talent. That's not the case here. We'll improve in the talent department, but the rest of the SECW will always have more. That leads to some close games and heartbreak since we don't have a coach that takes smart risks. He's a "throw crap at the wall and hope it sticks" kind of coach, not a sound decision coach.

If you need more proof, look at last season and how many times he left us saying, "What the hades was that?!"

Oh BS, CBB hires top coordinators to scheme with his oversight.  You don't know exactly how good or not good yet because we were not close to a complete seasoned team last year.  Was it great scheme against LSU until our guy fell down?  Was it great scheme until AC fumbled on the goal line?  Was CBP scheme so great that it took on of the most unreal catches I've ever seen by a tightend on 4th down to beat ULM his first year? 

I'm certainly not sure what a smart risk is in football, it's only smart if it works.  Urban called a fake punt deep in their territory on 4 and 13 in the SEC Champ game.  We had all the momentum and were going to win if it fails.  Unfortunately, somehow they made it by a half of yard and went on and one his first natty.  CBB called several fakes this year because he knew he needed his team to get going and get momentum because we were fragile.  The auburn one was the worst but at the same time we were driving and get a freak cut on BAs leg, yeap turnover by Darby.  Get the ball right back on a turnover in their territory 2 plays later Darby turnover aubby score.  We had the momentum and should have had the lead, I have no issue with him trying to catch them off guard on the kickoff.  Smart risk is called no risk so that's exactly what I don't want, ala nutty.

[ChitownHawg]

Your whole statement was good, but the first sentence is all that needs to be said at this point. CBB is a good coach. It's going to take a bit of time to see how good he does here. I'm rootin' for him though.

This has been a rough two Summers on Hogville with little variety of topics to discuss. When a good thread does come up it inevitably turns into a "Coach A" vs "Coach B" when there is not enough of a track record yet to truly analyze one of the coaches.

[Peter Porker]

"Going after" other posters is not the best move to make.

Poor choice of wording, but I was the other poster's wording. I don't  "go after" other posters. I use mostly facts and solid opinions to debate other posters.

On another note, it looks like you're paying attention to every word i post. I know the rules and won't break them no matter how badly one might want me to.

[Peter Porker]

Never mind Wilson beat me to it by a nano of a second.

I used your wording and explained myself in my previous  post.

[Hawg_Thai'd]

This has been a rough two Summers on Hogville with little variety of topics to discuss. When a good thread does come up it inevitably turns into a "Coach A" vs "Coach B" when there is not enough of a track record yet to truly analyze one of the coaches.

It is entirely possible that CBB could get this thing turned around starting this year (6-6 or 7-5) and building each year. It is also entirely possible that Gus has seen his best year as a head coach. I know that the "want" plays a factor in games, but so does "luck." That bounce of the ball one way or another. Calling a timeout when the FG goes through. The tip of a ball by two defenders resulting in a WR touchdown. These things matter, too. Sometimes when these things don't happen, a team that would've been 11-1 turns into a 9-3 team. See there. Will the ball bounce the way of the Hogs in the years ahead of us? Lord knows we're due for some "luck" to come our way.

[GuvHog]

Petrino played an extra game each year. 11 game seasons vs 12 game seasons.

Also, most ppl say we would have taken a step back in 2012 and 2013. So, no, not trending up.

When they say that they are doing a massive amount of ASSUMING. There is no way to know exactly what would have happened had Petrino stayed. People who make that claim are only doing so to make themselves feel better about Bobby's Ill-advised termination.

I could claim the Hogs wouldn't have taken a step back under Petrino but that would be a massive amount of ASSUMING in the other direction.

No one really knows what would or wouldn't have happened had Petrino not been fired and we never will really know.

[Peter Porker]

When they say that they are doing a massive amount of ASSUMING. There is no way to know exactly what would have happened had Petrino stayed. People who make that claim are only doing so to make themselves feel better about Bobby's Ill-advised termination.

I could claim the Hogs wouldn't have taken a step back under Petrino but that would be a massive amount of ASSUMING in the other direction.

No one really knows what would or wouldn't have happened had Petrino not been fired and we never will really know.

You know how to bring it like no one else.

Most of what we do is assume. You have a prediction, er assumption,  of how we will do this season?

[ChitownHawg]

I used your wording and explained myself in my previous  post.

I used the phrase go after because you were chasing Al when he didn't answer your question. I would just be careful with the name calling such as "booby, or "Auburn Al" as you are getting a reputation for it. Just my advice - take it or leave it.

It probably is best we drop the subject to prevent either of us feeling the "mod hammer". 

[GuvHog]

Arthur Gustav Malzahn III was never available to UA after we hired Bobby Petrino. There was a chance we could have hired him instead of Petrino, but he was never an option after that and certainly not instead of Bret Bielema.

If the Arkansas State job didn't preclude Gus, the Auburn plan to bring him back certainly took him out of the mix. He didn't take the Vanderbilt job or go for the California or Colorado interview because the plan was already in place to return to Auburn ASAP. Gus loved his time at Auburn and they loved Gus. It was a perfect match for both.

Malzahn kissed any chance he ever had of becoming the Head Hog when he turned his back on the state and went to Tulsa.

[ChitownHawg]

When they say that they are doing a massive amount of ASSUMING. There is no way to know exactly what would have happened had Petrino stayed. People who make that claim are only doing so to make themselves feel better about Bobby's Ill-advised termination.

I could claim the Hogs wouldn't have taken a step back under Petrino but that would be a massive amount of ASSUMING in the other direction.

No one really knows what would or wouldn't have happened had Petrino not been fired and we never will really know.

Guv, that is an assumption on your part as well. If we take away the assumptions we don't have much to talk about in June and July. 

Now the last sentence is the truth.

[Peter Porker]

I used the phrase go after because you were chasing Al when he didn't answer your question. I would just be careful with the name calling such as "booby, or "Auburn Al" as you are getting a reputation for it. Just my advice - take it or leave it.

It probably is best we drop the subject to prevent either of us feeling the "mod hammer". 

Really? People are talking about me?

BTW the last person that wants to get banned on here is me. I enjoy the privilege of being a member of this site.

[hawgsalot]

When they say that they are doing a massive amount of ASSUMING. There is no way to know exactly what would have happened had Petrino stayed. People who make that claim are only doing so to make themselves feel better about Bobby's Ill-advised termination.

I could claim the Hogs wouldn't have taken a step back under Petrino but that would be a massive amount of ASSUMING in the other direction.

No one really knows what would or wouldn't have happened had Petrino not been fired and we never will really know.

Guv you are correct it's an assumption but based on a true roster analysis I find your assumption less likely.  Bottom line this teams best WR was a TE that said he wouldn't have come if CBP was here.  The other WRs had never done anything when CBP was here.  Whos playing the guard position?  I don't know I think it's fairly reasonable to assume that the W totals were trending down substantially this past year.  That certainly doesn't mean we wouldn't or couldn't have gotten back to 10 win seasons just like this year means CBB can't get there.

[ChitownHawg]

Really? People are talking about me?

Dude, we had a lunch meeting just to talk behind your back. 

[hawgsalot]

Malzahn kissed any chance he ever had of becoming the Head Hog when he turned his back on the state and went to Tulsa.

+1 couldn't agree more.  If he would have stayed he probably would have been a razorback head coach in year 3.

[GuvHog]

Outcoached? Please give examples.....

Going for a Field Goal late in the game instead of punting and pinning Auburn deep in their own end of the field. Incredibly stupid move.

[ChitownHawg]

+1 couldn't agree more.  If he would have stayed he probably would have been a razorback head coach in year 3.

What job is worth putting up with a boss like Nutt?

[GuvHog]

Just because I compared Nutt's tenure to Petrino's and showed the win/loss similarities doesn't  make me a fan of Nutt.

Just because I showed that Petrino beat only 3 teams with a winning SEC record doesn't make me a fan of Nutt.

What you continue to ignore is the fact that Hooty inherited a loaded team for his first 2 years not to mention having a Hall of Fame NFL QB calling plays in his ear. That makes his record look a lot better than it really is..

[dc10x1103]

Malzahn kissed any chance he ever had of becoming the Head Hog when he turned his back on the state and went to Tulsa.

it is a shame you have no idea WHY gus went to Tulsa, and yet you feel qualified to issue a statement like that.   

[Big Poppa Z]

No one really knows what would or wouldn't have happened had Petrino not been fired and we never will really know.

There is this historical track record of teams he's "lead" imploding, that he's never around when this occurs seems like prescience on his part...

A solid step back seems a safe assumption, let alone that we had to (appropriately and good leadership) can the guy for cause.

[ChitownHawg]

Going for a Field Goal late in the game instead of punting and pinning Auburn deep in their own end of the field. Incredibly stupid move.

Sometimes plays go your way and sometimes they don't. He has brought in 3 championships, so I think his coaching capability is fine.

Again - one coach is striving for championships and the other has them. Hard to say the latter is out coached.

[Big Poppa Z]

What you continue to ignore is the fact that Hooty inherited a loaded team for his first 2 years not to mention having a Hall of Fame NFL QB calling plays in his ear. That makes his record look a lot better than it really is..

Ah, yes.

When facts get in the way, try to obfuscate them...

Shall we delve into the amount of teams with winning SEC records Petrino beat, debate his -- many -- fortunate escapes against teams the likes of Vanderbilt, or just call them wins?

[GuvHog]

You know how to bring it like no one else.

Most of what we do is assume. You have a prediction, er assumption,  of how we will do this season?

No, there are too many question marks. This team could finish as high as 8-4 or as low as 3-9. The Auburn game will tell us a lot about how the season will go.

[GuvHog]

Ah, yes.

When facts get in the way, try to obfuscate them...

Shall we delve into the amount of teams with winning SEC records Petrino beat, debate his -- many -- fortunate escapes against teams the likes of Vanderbilt, or just call them wins?

A win is a win no matter how well the team plays. When they were behind against teams like Ole Miss, A&M, and Vandy in 2010 and 2011, Booby's Hogs stepped up and won. Team's since Bobby's departure have not.

[Big Poppa Z]

A win is a win no matter how well the team plays. When they were behind against teams like Ole Miss, A&M, and Vandy in 2010 and 2011, Booby's Hogs stepped up and won. Team's since Bobby's departure have not.

You weren't talking about wins post Bobby's -- deserved -- departure.  You were trying to negate wins, prior.

CLASSIC.

When your argument fails, change the argument.

[GuvHog]

You weren't talking about wins post Bobby's -- deserved -- departure.  You were trying to negate wins, prior.

CLASSIC.

When your argument fails, change the argument.

Compare the team that Hooty inherited from Danny Ford to the one Bobby Petrino inherited from Hooty. If Hooty had to almost rebuild the program from scratch like Bobby did, your point would be valid.

[hawgsalot]

it is a shame you have no idea WHY gus went to Tulsa, and yet you feel qualified to issue a statement like that.

Ah DC please do tell us the facts?

[WashUhog6]

Bielema and Nutt are the exact same coach in pressure situations. Don't expect any BP-esque play calls that catch the opponent with their pants down.

We won't run Nutt's offense, but we'll have similar frustrations and records on the field. If you can't out scheme, you've got to have better talent. That's not the case here. We'll improve in the talent department, but the rest of the SECW will always have more. That leads to some close games and heartbreak since we don't have a coach that takes smart risks. He's a "throw crap at the wall and hope it sticks" kind of coach, not a sound decision coach.

If you need more proof, look at last season and how many times he left us saying, "What the hades was that?!"

I won't say that they're the same coach, or even the same coach in pressure situations, but there are a lot of head scratchers from 2013 that continue to plague my attempts at optimism.

The first that comes to mind is the management of the QB situation--to say Derby gives us the best chance to win after BA went down is one thing, but the guy struggled at taking snaps and may very well have ended our chance to beat Auburn. The second is the dependence on the fake punt. Next was that half back pass call against Ole Miss that killed our momentum.

Were all of these headscratchers desperation? I'm hoping so, because a lot of these began happening after the pummeling by awful Florida, USC, and Alabama. The handling of the QB situation could also mean that Bielema was playing more for the future than his statements throughout the preseason suggested. These are both reasonable explanations.

We'll never know for sure, but it certainly doesn't make me comfortable.

[dc10x1103]

Ah DC please do tell us the facts?

I would be glad to tell you what happened, because none of it was gus's fault.  HDN started calling david lee in dallas before the 2006 season was even over.  and numerous times in janurary.  on Jan 13 chris mortenson called gus and told him that nutt had hired lee to be C0-OC of the hogs.  and what was worse he would have complete control of the offense.  gus is a very proud coach.  he had been thru a world of b.s. during the season.  he called nutt and confirmed what he had been told.  he called todd graham at Tulsa and left the next day.  before all this happened gus had planned on being back at Arkansas the next year.  any self-respecting person would have done the same thing after what nutt did.

[Hogarusa]

He could be

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Malzahn kissed any chance he ever had of becoming the Head Hog when he turned his back on the state and went to Tulsa.

+1 couldn't agree more.  If he would have stayed he probably would have been a razorback head coach in year 3.

How old were you when this happened OR what PLANET have you been living on???

Seriously, this is the most uninformed, insane statement I think I've EVER read on this board.

Gus was FORCED out by DALE.  Turned his back on the State???

Nutt forced out the Springdale players, and DEFINITELY made it IMPOSSIBLE for Gus to stay.

This has all been WELL documented, and no one with facts or half a brain disputes this.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

There is a revival of Nuttzi's happening, and I'm not sure where it's coming from, but I have my suspicions and I'm going to find out.

And Dale, if you think for a second you are ever going to coach again in this State OR make it into the hall of fame IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

I use mostly facts and solid opinions to debate other posters.

No, you don't.  THE most credible sports writer in the State has given you FACTS time and time again, yet you refuse to believe them.

There's nothing factual about what you post.

[ChitownHawg]

There is a revival of Nuttzi's happening, and I'm not sure where it's coming from, but I have my suspicions and I'm going to find out.

And Dale, if you think for a second you are ever going to coach again in this State OR make it into the hall of fame IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

Well it took you long enough to realize that I was on the board! Now see if you can find Danny. 

[Pork Twain]

When they say that they are doing a massive amount of ASSUMING. There is no way to know exactly what would have happened had Petrino stayed. People who make that claim are only doing so to make themselves feel better about Bobby's Ill-advised termination.

I could claim the Hogs wouldn't have taken a step back under Petrino but that would be a massive amount of ASSUMING in the other direction.

No one really knows what would or wouldn't have happened had Petrino not been fired and we never will really know.

Seriously?.?.?

[ChitownHawg]

Seriously?.?.?

Hey Guv doesn't joke about the Hogs.

[Peter Porker]

No, you don't.  THE most credible sports writer in the State has given you FACTS time and time again, yet you refuse to believe them.

There's nothing factual about what you post.

Go through my posts and show me where my facts are wrong.

[ChitownHawg]

Go through my posts and show me where my facts are wrong.

I think it was the SMU reference.

[GuvHog]

Seriously?.?.?

Yes, Seriously. One can hazard a guess (make an assumption) by looking at the rosters but no one will ever know for sure.

[Big Poppa Z]

Yes, Seriously. One can hazard a guess (make an assumption) by looking at the rosters but no one will ever know for sure.

All we have is Petrino's ROCK SOLID history of programmatic implosion to go on...  (sigh)

[PonderinHog]

All we have is Petrino's ROCK SOLID history of programmatic implosion to go on...  (sigh)

What year did Nuttless takes us to the BCS?  His third year, right?  No wait, that was Petrino's third year.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Go through my posts and show me where my facts are wrong.

Until you acknowledge that Nutt is an enemy of the program, and not just an incompetent coach that "overstayed" his welcome, you are a Nuttzi and you are no Hog fan.

What you "saw" that made you a fan of Houston Nutt, is NOT what was happening behind closed doors. 

Today FOI's, firsthand accounts, e-mails, cell phone records and other FACTS have proven this.  If you deny that, you are not dealing in FACTS, you are dealing in FICTION and you are a Nutt fan, not a Hog fan.  You can't be both.

And I'm not just picking on you, that goes for Zeke, Guvhog and anyone else in denial.

[redeye]

I appreciate the effort, but also find it a bit silly.  Bielema may be a little goofy, but he most certainly is not boring.  He has a hot wife, speaks his mind publicly and wears flip flops everywhere.  If anything, Gus is the more boring of the two and I'm not beating up on Gus by saying that.  Doesn't really matter to me, either way.

I just don't get the connections?  I also don't agree on many things said about Hatfield, but that's another conversation.

Having said that, I know you meant well and I appreciate that!

[Peter Porker]

Until you acknowledge that Nutt is an enemy of the program, and not just an incompetent coach that "overstayed" his welcome, you are a Nuttzi and you are no Hog fan.

What you "saw" that made you a fan of Houston Nutt, is NOT what was happening behind closed doors. 

Today FOI's, firsthand accounts, e-mails, cell phone records and other FACTS have proven this.  If you deny that, you are not dealing in FACTS, you are dealing in FICTION and you are a Nutt fan, not a Hog fan.  You can't be both.

And I'm not just picking on you, that goes for Zeke, Guvhog and anyone else in denial.

Again, go through my posts. I posted numbers and you called it misinformation. Where's the misinformation in my numbers?

[Mike Irwin]

FIFY.

I'd go so far as to say i think about Nutt less often than you do.

I'd go so far as to say say you're wrong. I never bring him up. I only respond when somebody like you tries to reinvent the man by using stats to show that his teams won some games.

[Peter Porker]

I'd go so far as to say say you're wrong. I never bring him up. I only respond when somebody like you tries to reinvent the man by using stats to show that his teams won some games.

Are my stats wrong?

[ChitownHawg]

Are my stats wrong?

I don't think you will get anyone to talk numbers with you. The bad taste that Nutt left simply is a red flag to a bull.

For me it was like reading a history lesson on the autrocities of Cambodia. I can loath what happened, but because I was not part of it makes it hard for me to replicate the emotion of the people who lived that history. I understand the emotion and appreciate the people who stood up.

I maybe wrong but I do get a sense from the postings over the years that people are afraid Nutt will worm his way back into the State. Not as a coach of the Hogs, but something along the lines of the Hall of Fame. I don't see that happening as too many people would stand up. PRJ wouldn't be alone at that press conference this time around.

Best just to let this sleeping dog lie.