Soccer Innovations?

[MJ2]

Why can't some innovative coaches take the soccer game and come up with ways to score more like the spread offenses have in football?    Is the game so entrenched in "tradition" that no one can think outside the box?   There is no way a 1-0 win or a 0-0 tie is exiting.    Let's see some innovator start putting up 9 points a game on his opponents!!!

[JayBell]

The Eredivisie, the top league in the Netherlands, is one of the most wide open, high-scoring leagues in the world.  Top teams there score about 2.5 goals a game.  You can emphasize attacking as much as you want, but soccer is set, structurally, just like the NFL is.

You're talking about spread offenses in football, but that has had a much larger impact on college and high school football than the NFL, where the best players and the best tacticians reside.

[JayBell]

More importantly, no one in the world wants to change soccer except for some stubborn Americans.  And those folks still wouldn't watch soccer even if 10 goals were being scored every game.

Let it go.

[popcornhog]

Why can't some innovative coaches take the soccer game and come up with ways to score more like the spread offenses have in football?    Is the game so entrenched in "tradition" that no one can think outside the box?   There is no way a 1-0 win or a 0-0 tie is exiting.    Let's see some innovator start putting up 9 points a game on his opponents!!!

I think the big thing is this -- who wants to see these types of changes? Americans. Where is soccer the most popular sport? Everywhere except America.

[MJ2]

I think the big thing is this -- who wants to see these types of changes? Americans. Where is soccer the most popular sport? Everywhere except America.

Can't argue with that.

[Huckleberry Pig]

More importantly, no one in the world wants to change soccer except for some stubborn Americans.  And those folks still wouldn't watch soccer even if 10 goals were being scored every game.

Let it go.

/thread

[Huckleberry Pig]

It's always been funny to me that Americans call soccer boring but are willing to watch a 3.5hr baseball game.  You kidding me?! 

Most Americans don't like soccer because they don't UNDERSTAND the game.  We need more kids learning the game at a higher level for this to change.  It can be a tough game to follow but when you know what you're watching it's amazing.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Why can't some innovative coaches take the soccer game and come up with ways to score more like the spread offenses have in football?    Is the game so entrenched in "tradition" that no one can think outside the box?   There is no way a 1-0 win or a 0-0 tie is exiting.    Let's see some innovator start putting up 9 points a game on his opponents!!!

Why would anyone want to take the excitement OUT of scoring a goal?  It's not basketball.  Some of the best games I've ever seen ended 0-0.  If you want to enjoy the game, you need a paradigm shift in your thinking, not the other way around.

Btw, the NASL tried that in the 70s and it was a disaster.  The MLS has modeled their league after the rest of the world and is thriving.  Our USMNT is also in better shape than ever.

[waphill]

It's always been funny to me that Americans call soccer boring but are willing to watch a 3.5hr baseball game.  You kidding me?! 

This. Out of that 3.5 hours, 2 of them are spent watching commercial breaks. The "American Pastime" is watching ads.

I love the lack of breaks in soccer.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

This. Out of that 3.5 hours, 2 of them are spent watching commercial breaks. The "American Pastime" is watching ads.

I love the lack of breaks in soccer.

Drives me crazy about college basketball, also.  March Madness is out of control with the commercials.

[Hogfaniam]

Shorten the pitch. Compress the action.  Goalies would lose their minds.

[DukeOfPork]

More importantly, no one in the world wants to change soccer except for some stubborn Americans.  And those folks still wouldn't watch soccer even if 10 goals were being scored every game.

Let it go.

This.

Move on.

[Deep Shoat]

It's always been funny to me that Americans call soccer boring but are willing to watch a 3.5hr baseball game.  You kidding me?! 

Most Americans don't like soccer because they don't UNDERSTAND the game.  We need more kids learning the game at a higher level for this to change.  It can be a tough game to follow but when you know what you're watching it's amazing.

Everytime it's "You don't understand the game".  I understand it just fine.  I've watched soccer on and off for years trying to learn to enjoy it.  But when, at the very highest level of the game, a quarterfinal match is 1-1 in regulation, 10 minutes of stoppage time are added, 30 minutes of extra time (all of which both teams spent trying to not make a mistake instead of trying to score), and then the game is decided by whose goaltender GUESSES right the most times?

Yeah, no.  I'll stick to football.

Again...

[Inhogswetrust]

It's always been funny to me that Americans call soccer boring but are willing to watch a 3.5hr baseball game.  You kidding me?! 

Most Americans don't like soccer because they don't UNDERSTAND the game.  We need more kids learning the game at a higher level for this to change.  It can be a tough game to follow but when you know what you're watching it's amazing.

I don't watch baseball or soccer. I think both can be boring. However at least in baseball players can use the one thing that sets humans apart from 99% of other animals and that is hands like we have.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Everytime it's "You don't understand the game".  I understand it just fine.  I've watched soccer on and off for years trying to learn to enjoy it.  But when, at the very highest level of the game, a quarterfinal match is 1-1 in regulation, 10 minutes of stoppage time are added, 30 minutes of extra time (all of which both teams spent trying to not make a mistake instead of trying to score), and then the game is decided by whose goaltender GUESSES right the most times?

Yeah, no.  I'll stick to football.

Again...

Your generalizations are evidence that you don't understand it.

[yraciv]

I like everything about soccer, and am fine with it the way it is.  I also completely agree that this thread is just your typical uneducated American opinion of the game.  I don't judge you because it is tough to get exposed to what soccer truly is growing up in this country.  That being said, I do agree with one thing he said.

I don't like PKs ending world cup matches.  If I had a choice, soccer would take on the NHL mindset of overtime.  PKs can end league games/lesser contests, but I hate seeing that crapshoot eliminate teams.  Make things sudden death!

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

I like everything about soccer, and am fine with it the way it is.  I also completely agree that this thread is just your typical uneducated American opinion of the game.  I don't judge you because it is tough to get exposed to what soccer truly is growing up in this country.  That being said, I do agree with one thing he said.

I don't like PKs ending world cup matches.  If I had a choice, soccer would take on the NHL mindset of overtime.  PKs can end league games/lesser contests, but I hate seeing that crapshoot eliminate teams.  Make things sudden death!

We used to have the "golden goal", and I'd be fine with bringing that back.

Playing the extra-time out though, really gives the team who is in better shape an advantage.   

[Dr. Starcs]

Not a fan of the penalty kicks either. How about each overtime period, each team plays with one less player. It if you stick with pk's, each kick moves back from a further distance.

[Deep Shoat]

Your generalizations are evidence that you don't understand it.

More soccer elitism.

Do I understand all the little idiosyncresies of strategy?  No.  But I know that match between Chile and Brazil, two of the best teams in the world, turned into a "keep it out of our end" fest with neither team willing to really RISK.  Most soccer matches that are somewhat evenly matched are basically 90 minutes of Nuttball.  Keep it close and hope we find a way to win.

Brazil was so obviously the better athletes in that match, winning almost every ball in the air.  Yet they played as if Chile a juggernaut.  And Chile, with Brazil playing not to lose and knowing Brazil was superior, chose to sit back and not attack in the stoppage+extra time. They were willing to take a moral victory and play for the randomness of penalty kicks.

I don't have to be a brilliant tactician to see that almost every team plays with a "don't lose" mindset instead of a "risk to win" mindset.  You said yourself that USA had to play aggressively against Germany to win, yet they did the same old "don't lose" strategy.  And still lost, because Germany is superior.

The only teams that are consistently fun to watch are the African squads and the Dutch.  They attack.  If the rest of the world had that mindset, maybe Americans would give a crap about "the world's game".

[DukeOfPork]

If the rest of the world had that mindset, maybe Americans would give a crap about "the world's game".

Fox realizes that your opinion doesn't count.  And they are wagering almost a half billion dollars that it doesn't count:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/30/rupert-murdoch-bets-a-half-billion-dollars-that-the-next-world-cup-will-be-even-bigger-in-america.html

Hey, I totally understand you "soccer is as boring as watching paint dry" guys.  There are extremely popular sports in this country that bore me to death (NASCAR, golf, baseball, basketball, etc.).  I understand every one of those sports, yet they bore me. 

So you've said your piece.  Move along.  Meanwhile, soccer will continue to grow in popularity in the US.  No, it won't overtake the big sports, but it is now significant, and rightfully so.

[JayBell]

The only teams that are consistently fun to watch are the African squads and the Dutch.  They attack.  If the rest of the world had that mindset, maybe Americans would give a crap about "the world's game".

That big huge long rant and this paragraph explains so much that you absolutely do not understand soccer.  That's not elitism.  You just don't know what you're talking about.

The Dutch are one of the most proficient counter-attacking teams in the world.  They sit back on defense more than a lot of teams.  They just have enough talent to execute in the final third.  Other teams like Germany, Argentina, Chile, France, etc. are much more known for their aggressiveness and free-flowing soccer.

Look, soccer is just like any sport.  One team has a gameplan, but what actually happens in the game is dictated by BOTH teams' tactics.  Criticizing Chile and Brazil for their approach on Saturday is like criticizing Bielema for running the ball too much last season when the passing game was so weak.

[JayBell]

I don't watch baseball or soccer. I think both can be boring. However at least in baseball players can use the one thing that sets humans apart from 99% of other animals and that is hands like we have.

This is still the dumbest reason I've ever read to try to justify disliking soccer, especially when it is what separates soccer in a good way.  It's easy to use your hands.  We use our hands from everything else.  What's difficult is only using your feet in a creative way, something that 99% of other animals can't do.

It's like criticizing baseball for using tools like a bat and a glove.  We don't use bats and gloves outside of baseball, why should we use them in a sport?  What about hockey using a stick and blades?  That's so totally stupid.  99% of us never use a stick or blades.

[DukeOfPork]

This is still the dumbest reason I've ever read to try to justify disliking soccer, especially when it is what separates soccer in a good way.  It's easy to use your hands.  We use our hands from everything else.  What's difficult is only using your feet in a creative way, something that 99% of other animals can't do.

It's like criticizing baseball for using tools like a bat and a glove.  We don't use bats and gloves outside of baseball, why should we use them in a sport?  What about hockey using a stick and blades?  That's so totally stupid.  99% of us never use a stick or blades.

The English laugh at us for wearing helmets and pads to hit it each other in American football instead of just going at it like the "real men" do in rugby.

[JayBell]

The English laugh at us for wearing helmets and pads to hit it each other in American football instead of just going at it like the "real men" do in rugby.

Exactly.  When you say you don't like something because of the foundation of its identity, then you just don't like it.  There's no logical reason for it and it is dumb to try to make up excises.  Similar examples:

"I don't like grass because it is green."
"Clouds are too high in the sky."
"I hate Mississippi because it smells weird.  99% of other animals couldn't make Mississippi smell like this."

[DukeOfPork]

Exactly.  When you say you don't like something because of the foundation of its identity, then you just don't like it.  There's no logical reason for it and it is dumb to try to make up excises.  Similar examples:

"I don't like grass because it is green."
"Clouds are too high in the sky."
"I hate Mississippi because it smells weird.  99% of other animals couldn't make Mississippi smell like this."

"The water tastes funny in ______.  I prefer my own (often inferior and/or polluted) water back home because, damn it, I'm used to it."

[Dr. Starcs]

You know it's a thrilling sport when the entire crowd is doing the wave 10 minutes into the match. Lol

I abhor the wave. I've seen it done at countless football and baseball games although never this early.

I'm trying to think and I can't say I've ever seen it done at a basketball game.

[DukeOfPork]

You know it's a thrilling sport when the entire crowd is doing the wave 10 minutes into the match. Lol

I abhor the wave. I've seen it done at countless football and baseball games although never this early.

I'm trying to think and I can't say I've ever seen it done at a basketball game.

I think I saw the wave in one of the games last week and that was the first time I've ever seen it in over ten years of watching soccer.  That's more of an American cultural phenomenon.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Why can't some innovative coaches take the soccer game and come up with ways to score more like the spread offenses have in football?    Is the game so entrenched in "tradition" that no one can think outside the box?   There is no way a 1-0 win or a 0-0 tie is exiting.    Let's see some innovator start putting up 9 points a game on his opponents!!!

To answer the OP, which was not a bad question/opinion - I think we've seen a major paradigm shift this world cup.  In the past, most teams would be content with a draw in their first game of the group stage.  The key was you did not want to end up with 0 points. 

However, that went out the window this year, with teams attacking and trying to win that first game. 

[Inhogswetrust]

Why would anyone want to take the excitement OUT of scoring a goal?  It's not basketball.  Some of the best games I've ever seen ended 0-0.  If you want to enjoy the game, you need a paradigm shift in your thinking, not the other way around.

Btw, the NASL tried that in the 70s and it was a disaster.  The MLS has modeled their league after the rest of the world and is thriving.  Our USMNT is also in better shape than ever.

ALL that time (wasted) to watch a 0-0 tie? I bet you like kissing your sister also..............................................

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Best innovation......the exploding Mexican coach.

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[sickboy]

The most exciting thing about soccer is how valuable a goal is. Why would you ever take that away?

[Deep Shoat]

The most exciting thing about soccer is how valuable a goal is. Why would you ever take that away?

People dying of thirst are estatic about a drink of water, but it doesn't mean they don't want more.

I will give soccer credit for a real overtime period, and while the USA still looked the same as every year, at least both teams actually PLAYED the extra time instead of playing for penalty kicks.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Why can't some innovative coaches take the soccer game and come up with ways to score more like the spread offenses have in football?    Is the game so entrenched in "tradition" that no one can think outside the box?   There is no way a 1-0 win or a 0-0 tie is exiting.    Let's see some innovator start putting up 9 points a game on his opponents!!!

After watching this World Cup and watching Germany take Brazil out of the game with 5 scores, I have to admit it got me to thinking.

I like how Germany's keeper plays outside his box and starts the build up....you would have to have a guy that has played center back or wing/midfielder also.

It would be interesting to move everyone up forward a bit.  Yes, you'd risk a counter attack goal, but if you had 3 defenders that could go one-on-one, then in essence you could have 3 midfielders and 4 forwards, with one back, but constantly applying pressure.

Hmmm...I gotta think this through, but quick balls down the wings then back toward the middle(forward, not square).  The goalie could be a set piece expert like Chilavert was for Paraguay.

I would love to at least try this with a High School squad.

Steve Sampson was not far off with this, in the sense that he challenged the status quo which was VERY conservative at the time and encouraged our guys to take risks to score.

[redeye]

Why would anyone want to take the excitement OUT of scoring a goal?  It's not basketball.  Some of the best games I've ever seen ended 0-0.  If you want to enjoy the game, you need a paradigm shift in your thinking, not the other way around.

Btw, the NASL tried that in the 70s and it was a disaster.  The MLS has modeled their league after the rest of the world and is thriving.  Our USMNT is also in better shape than ever.

Completely agree.

I'm also a MLB fan and you hear this same discussion with baseball.  MLB looked away while players were juicing, because more runs = more viewers = more money, but most real baseball fans believe the best games are those that end 1-0.  Games that that end with this score are usually due to both teams having great pitching, which is the cornerstone of every World Series Champion.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Completely agree.

I'm also a MLB fan and you hear this same discussion with baseball.  MLB looked away while players were juicing, because more runs = more viewers = more money, but most real baseball fans believe the best games are those that end 1-0.  Games that that end with this score are usually due to both teams having great pitching, which is the cornerstone of every World Series Champion.

My argument above was not so much more goal production in massive 6-7 numbers, but more of an offensive philosophy in creative ways other than home runs.  Like the cards did under Whitey with Coleman, Ozzie, stealing bases, bunting and the hit and turn.  Getting enough to turn the game around.

[JayBell]

Just look at Liverpool last season in the English Premier League.  The Reds played some of the most wide open attacking football that league has seen in years.  Too often Chelsea and Manchester City resort to boring, defensive tactics despite their billion dollar rosters.  Arsenal's mimicking of Barcelona's tiki taka style has resulted in a few fun fourth place finishes.

But Liverpool didn't win the league.  The Manchester clubs and Chelsea have won every EPL title for the last decade.  As is the case in every sport: defense wins championships.  Liverpool needed ridiculous seasons from Suarez and Sturridge to play that style and come as close to winning as they do, but any championship side is built on defense.

[Inhogswetrust]

Just look at Liverpool last season in the English Premier League.  The Reds played some of the most wide open attacking football that league has seen in years.  Too often Chelsea and Manchester City resort to boring, defensive tactics despite their billion dollar rosters.  Arsenal's mimicking of Barcelona's tiki taka style has resulted in a few fun fourth place finishes.

But Liverpool didn't win the league.  The Manchester clubs and Chelsea have won every EPL title for the last decade.  As is the case in every sport: defense wins championships.  Liverpool needed ridiculous seasons from Suarez and Sturridge to play that style and come as close to winning as they do, but any championship side is built on defense.

Wait. You mean you need to have a decent defense in soccer to win a league. I think I've heard that applied to another sport as well...................................................

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Just look at Liverpool last season in the English Premier League.  The Reds played some of the most wide open attacking football that league has seen in years.  Too often Chelsea and Manchester City resort to boring, defensive tactics despite their billion dollar rosters.  Arsenal's mimicking of Barcelona's tiki taka style has resulted in a few fun fourth place finishes.

But Liverpool didn't win the league.  The Manchester clubs and Chelsea have won every EPL title for the last decade.  As is the case in every sport: defense wins championships.  Liverpool needed ridiculous seasons from Suarez and Sturridge to play that style and come as close to winning as they do, but any championship side is built on defense.

But why not start that defense on the offensive end, instead of in your own box(I'm exaggerating a bit)?

[JayBell]

Talk about boring.....don't forget the pitcher throwing to 1st 37 times to hold the runner....

I grew up playing baseball ever year.  I was always an all-star so my baseball season lasted deep into the summer.  But even then, I never enjoyed watching baseball on TV all that much.  It was so much more enjoyable to watch in person.

Now, if it's not Arkansas, baseball is one of my least favorite sports to watch.  I'd almost rather watch volleyball or hockey instead of MLB.