Is Bret Bielema a good fit at Arkansas?

[EastexHawg]

Badgers Schedule

Sat 8/30 LSU @ (14) LSU 9:00 pm ET
Sat 9/6 Western Ill.  Western Ill. TBA
Sat 9/20 Bowling Green  Bowling Green TBA
Sat 9/27 South Florida  South Florida TBA
Sat 10/4 Northwestern @  Northwestern TBA
Sat 10/11 Illinois  Illinois TBA
Sat 10/25 Maryland  Maryland 12:00 pm ET
Sat 11/1 Rutgers @  Rutgers 12:00 pm ET
Sat 11/8 Purdue @  Purdue TBA
Sat 11/15 Nebraska  Nebraska TBA
Sat 11/22 Iowa @  Iowa TBA
Sat 11/29 Minnesota  Minnesota 

That is a ridiculous schedule.  LSU is the obvious toughest opponent. Let's say Nebraska is #2.  Who's next?

The same coach could take the same squad and go 10-2 against that schedule...then turn around and go 6-6 against a schedule that included Bama, Auburn, LSU, South Carolina, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, and Mississippi State.

[LZH]

Tom Landry couldn't have coached that team to the season that you and a couple of others need to see to be happy.

Yes, he probably could have....along with quite a few other coaches.  Like I said in another thread a week or two ago - if you honestly think Beliema got everything out of his players that he possibly could last year, then nothing I say is gonna make any sense to ya.

And as far as not being able "to pay players to come here to play", you are aware that Auburn was winless in the SEC two years ago, right?

Cheesestick did a phenomenally horrible job...much worse than Beliema.  I thought everyone knew that.

You are also aware that a three time defending Big 10 champion head coach is who all the media outlet picked to finish last in the league last season? They didn't base that prediction on Coach Bielema's coaching ability, sweetie! They based that SOLELY on the talent he inherited and the dumpster fire that he ran to in hopes of putting it out.

OK, Sweetie.

Have your crow readily available, because I'm bookmarking this thread.

What crow?  I've said a dozen times that I think we'll win 7 games this year.  And fwiw, anytime you're not afraid to be opinionated, then you're not afraid to snack on a little crow from time to time.....'cause it's gonna happen, and that's OK.

[Ramtough]

That is a ridiculous schedule.  LSU is the obvious toughest opponent. Let's say Nebraska is #2.  Who's next?

The same coach could take the same squad and go 10-2 against that schedule...then turn around and go 6-6 against a schedule that included Bama, Auburn, LSU, South Carolina, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, and Mississippi State.

and if he played that schedule with our team this year we would easily go to a bowl game.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

You can win at Wisconsin with marginal recruiting classes, not in the SEC. It's apples and oranges. Bielema wil face 6 or 7 ranked teams this year at UA and would only face 1 at UW. He would win 10 again in Madison while that won't be the case in Fayetteville.


Badgers Schedule

Sat 8/30 LSU @ (14) LSU 9:00 pm ET
Sat 9/6 Western Ill.  Western Ill. TBA
Sat 9/20 Bowling Green  Bowling Green TBA
Sat 9/27 South Florida  South Florida TBA
Sat 10/4 Northwestern @  Northwestern TBA
Sat 10/11 Illinois  Illinois TBA
Sat 10/25 Maryland  Maryland 12:00 pm ET
Sat 11/1 Rutgers @  Rutgers 12:00 pm ET
Sat 11/8 Purdue @  Purdue TBA
Sat 11/15 Nebraska  Nebraska TBA
Sat 11/22 Iowa @  Iowa TBA
Sat 11/29 Minnesota  Minnesota 

Yeah, Bret is a good fit at UA, but he will grow into the job. He is a smart guy who knows how to recruit and win. Bret's success will depend on whether he wants to stay the course and get it done. He can do it, no doubt about it. If after 4 years he is not having enough success, might be easier to move on to an easier coaching position back in the Big Ten or another conference. I am betting he is the stubborn guy I think he is, who won't leave Fayetteville without making his mark on our program. It is a monumental task to win the SEC Championship.

You are aware that that Big Ten just got done with conference realignment, right? That 2014 schedule is hardly indicative of the typical schedule Bielema faced at Wisconsin.

Nobody is arguing that the baseline level of competition that Bielema will regularly face in the SEC is not head and shoulders above what he faced in the Big Ten.

However, replace "Bielema" with any SEC coach and "Big Ten" with any other conference and you've just described every coach in the SEC at one point, so that argument is largely irrelevant.

Replace "Bielema" with Petrino and "Big Ten" with "Big East" and you just described the sentiment on this board on this date in 2009.

We know that the SEC is the best competition in the nation, so nobody has to keep telling us. Yes, Bielema faced lesser competition in the Big Ten, but you don't get to the Rose Bowl by beating up on bottom-feeders. In 2010 the Badgers had to beat #1 Ohio State and #13 Iowa. In 2011 they had to beat #8 Nebraska and #11 Michigan State in the B1G championship game. Those teams aren't peanuts.

As with any coach, we're in wait-and-see mode as to whether or not Bielema will end up being successful in the SEC. If he's not successful, he'll get canned and we'll move on.

The argument that I will continue to make is that no matter how you slice it, Bielema has the most impressive resume of any coach hired in the SEC since Nick Saban. That's a fact. There's a reason for that; the university administration hired an established head coach with a long-term vision in mind, and given his resume, Bret Bielema deserves a longer leash and more time to rebuild the Arkansas program than your typical head coaching hire would get. That is largely the argument that the pro-Bielema, if there is such a faction, has made. Not "Bielema is the best coach ever" or "Bielema will be successful in the SEC", but "He deserves more time to rebuild the program because of his successful background as a head coach in a major conference."

[3kgthog]

I base the fit on wins and he doesn't have many here. Maybe he'll get lucky and have Bama, LSU, and any of Auburn/aTm/Florida lose a few coaches or get derailed by NCAA penalties and investigations. That's what he lucked into at Wisconsin with Michigan having very lean years through coaching changes, Ohio St. losing Tressel and going on probation, and then Penn St. going through their scandal AND a coaching change. It's not like he tore it up against those teams even with all their drama, so maybe we're worse off than I first thought.

[Deep Shoat]

So this dude grew up on a hog farm, walked on his college football team and turned it into a scholarship through dedication and hard work, says what he thinks even if it isn't pc or popular, doesn't back down from a fight, talks darn about Mississippi, builds under-recruited/underdeveloped kids into NFL caliber talent, likes to drink beer and show off his beer gut, likes hot blondes, hates Urban Meyer, loves to run the football between the tackles - and you're not sure he fits in here?

Where the hell did you grow up? This guy has Arkansas County, or Independence County, or Garland County written all over him.

Best.
Post.
Evah!

[Jek Tono Porkins]

I base the fit on wins and he doesn't have many here. Maybe he'll get lucky and have Bama, LSU, and any of Auburn/aTm/Florida lose a few coaches or get derailed by NCAA penalties and investigations. That's what he lucked into at Wisconsin with Michigan having very lean years through coaching changes, Ohio St. losing Tressel and going on probation, and then Penn St. going through their scandal AND a coaching change. It's not like he tore it up against those teams even with all their drama, so maybe we're worse off than I first thought.

This proves that you don't know anything about Bielema's tenure at Wisconsin.
Was it luck when Bielema exploited a little-known rule to royally piss off Paterno and beat Penn State in 2006?
What about when he beat Michigan in 2007 who was ranked #13 at the time with Lloyd Carr as their head coach? Luck?
Or perhaps when he beat the #1 (at the time) Jim Tressel-coached Ohio State team in 2010? Luck?

Or perhaps you think it was luck that Wisconsin beat a Mark Dantonio and Pat Narduzzi-coached Michigan State team in the B1G championship game in 2011?

Besides, the argument that "Penn St. and Ohio State cheated so that somehow invalidates Bielema's success" never held water with me in the first place. Two things will keep you out of conference championships: losing and cheating. Bielema did neither while at Wisconsin, so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

Additionally, there are a large amount of coaches that had a terrible first year or terrible first years as head coaches at their respective programs but ended up being great "fits", by your definition. The logical thing to do, of course, is to wait for a couple of years before you decide to pass judgment on whether or not he is a good "fit" here, but I wouldn't expect you to know anything about logical thinking.

[EulessHog]

He has the luxury of time to prove himself at Arkansas as he will be around for at least three more years.

I think a better question might be is Arkansas a food fit for BB. Can the fans stand for his antics with social media in the face of likely losses in the SEC?

I am going to go out on a limb and say no, BB is not a good fit.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

So this dude grew up on a hog farm, walked on his college football team and turned it into a scholarship through dedication and hard work, says what he thinks even if it isn't pc or popular, doesn't back down from a fight, talks darn about Mississippi, builds under-recruited/underdeveloped kids into NFL caliber talent, likes to drink beer and show off his beer gut, likes hot blondes, hates Urban Meyer, loves to run the football between the tackles - and you're not sure he fits in here?

Where the hell did you grow up? This guy has Arkansas County, or Independence County, or Garland County written all over him. 

That's a good perspective.

[hog911]

LSU game was not an improvement?

We were within seven the year before with smiley! So by your logic we should have won more games last than the year before! Did we no! Yes we improved as the year went on but so did most the other teams in the country!

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

I feel like everyone focuses on Bielema's offensive style of ground and pound way too much when discussing his fit here and in the SEC. Our offensive recruiting is more than fine, in 2013 and 2014 we landed highly multiple highly ranked offensive lineman, running backs, quarterbacks, and even some receivers in 2014.

But they're ignoring the bigger issue, which is that Bielema wants to play a style that relies on defense without recruiting better defensive players than we've recruited in the past. That's our biggest hurdle moving forward because his two recruiting classes just do not have the type of defensive impact we need to win at a high level in the SEC without having an explosive offense.

I see your point, but I believe defensive recruiting is by far better under CBB than before. It's not 5* loaded, but there are some real gems in both the 14 and 15 classes, and more secondary players to come as well...

[EastexHawg]

I see your point, but I believe defensive recruiting is by far better under CBB than before. It's not 5* loaded, but there are some real gems in both the 14 and 15 classes, and more secondary players to come as well...

We have signed defensive players who will turn out to perform better than Chris Smith, Trey Flowers, Darius Philon, Robert Thomas, Jamichael Winston, Deatrich Wise, Byran Jones, Alonzo Highsmith, and Otha Peters?

How do we know this?  If it's a projection/guess, how great did everyone think Darius Winston and Ronnie Wingo would be when we signed them?

[Jamie Jones]

One thing is for sure...when Coach Bielema gets things going his way, there won't be anyone who can credit his success to the prior coaches and what they left for him to build on, ala Miles following Saban.

[farmhawg]

We have signed defensive players who will turn out to perform better than Chris Smith, Trey Flowers, Darius Philon, Robert Thomas, Jamichael Winston, Deatrich Wise, Byran Jones, Alonzo Highsmith, and Otha Peters?

How do we know this?  If it's a projection/guess, how great did everyone think Darius Winston and Ronnie Wingo would be when we signed them?

Plenty of talent......poor leadership that he has hopefully fixed.

[870hogfan]

We were within seven the year before with smiley! So by your logic we should have won more games last than the year before! Did we no! Yes we improved as the year went on but so did most the other teams in the country!

Mr. Smiley had an all SEC QB an pretty good receiver in Cobi Hamilton that is something Coach B did not have...

[opineonswine]

BB is a much better cultural fit at Arkansas than Lou Holtz was or Bobby Petrino was.

[three hog night]

I see your point, but I believe defensive recruiting is by far better under CBB than before. It's not 5* loaded, but there are some real gems in both the 14 and 15 classes, and more secondary players to come as well...

CBB is doing much better in the secondary and has some good looking LB talent coming now.   We are deep at DE.  DT is the most difficult position to find talent.

[Pork Twain]

I don't have any way of knowing if it's true or not, it's just what I've been told.  I guess my point is that Chaney has proven himself to be a good offensive coach and playcaller.  Beliema has always coached defense, not offense.  I know it's not brain surgery, but I believe if you're gonna start micro-managing your coordinator then you hired the wrong guy in the first place.

Told by who?  Starting to sound a lot like Guv here.

[Pork Twain]

Badgers Schedule

Sat 8/30 LSU @ (14) LSU 9:00 pm ET
Sat 9/6 Western Ill.  Western Ill. TBA
Sat 9/20 Bowling Green  Bowling Green TBA
Sat 9/27 South Florida  South Florida TBA
Sat 10/4 Northwestern @  Northwestern TBA
Sat 10/11 Illinois  Illinois TBA
Sat 10/25 Maryland  Maryland 12:00 pm ET
Sat 11/1 Rutgers @  Rutgers 12:00 pm ET
Sat 11/8 Purdue @  Purdue TBA
Sat 11/15 Nebraska  Nebraska TBA
Sat 11/22 Iowa @  Iowa TBA
Sat 11/29 Minnesota  Minnesota 

So you are judging what he could or could not have done by looking at a schedule that has not been played yet?  Why not look at the ones he actually coached in?

[Pork Twain]

I am not equipped to break down his recruiting classes in Wisconsin vs his 1st 2 in Arkansas, but I am making the point that it won't be as easy to win in the SEC playing 6 or more top 25 ranked teams vs 1 or 2 in the Big Ten with his typical recruiting classes. Please explain further if you will what you mean by the differnce in talent.

I simply point out the obvious, yet believe in the man and what he can accomplish based on his intelligence, his knowledge of football fundamentals and his desire that I have seen on display.
I also believe that he will grow into the higher stakes recruiting that the SEC challenge presents for him. Like I said, I think he is guy driven to succeed and I am sure for him.

Are you equiped to compare the classes we signed before he arrived to the ones we signed since he arrived?  No reason to compare AR to Wisky, compare AR to AR...  He still might fail here but his pulling in better talent than either one of the past two coaches (minus a few great in-state players here and there).

[Pork Twain]

No, not at all, comparing schedules is more what I was doing. We were discussing upgrading Bret's recruiting classes. You would need to read all the previous posts to see what was happening there.

I did, but next year's Wisky schedule has nothing to do with what he can or cannot do at Arkansas.  He is bringing in better players here and that is what should matter.  Will that make him successful here?  Who knows.

[Pork Twain]

Again, you didn't read the previous posts. You would need to start on page 1 to catch up. It's not really important.

This is the way Hogville threads get dragged into negative threads instead of reading throughly and understanding before posting.

Yes, I think he is a good fit and pointed out a few things I see in how his success or lack of success can happen with things he can control.

Got it...  I actually posted on page one and although LZH was making his normal points, you did not show up until page two.  Thank you for your concern and guidance on my posting.

Where Hogville usually suffers the most is from unrealistic expectations, short sighted fans and an unwillingness to do research.

[Pork Twain]

NOt really, Petrino recruited to fit his style of play and Bielema is doing the same. Obviously Bret couldn't win with Petrino's recruit and Smith couldn't either.

If Bielema only recruits classes that aren't even in the top 25 as he did at UW, he won't last long in the SEC. I am guessing and betting on him being able to rise to the challenge and do his best recruiting in Fayetteville.  Hopefully it works out for him and, Yes I think he is a good fit.

Again, we are not talking about Wisky, we are talking about the players he is recruiting to Arkansas.  We have 2.5 classes to compare to what came before him.  Looking at his classes at Wisky does us no good as that is what he recruited to Wisky in the Big 10, not what he is recruiting to Arkansas in the SEC.

I'll play your game...    Now I am not a great averager, but I know what I see.  I also know that the players stepping on our campus are actually beginning to look like SEC linemen which is something we have not seen a lot of since HDN and that is about all we saw from him.  I also know what 2009-2011 really looked like on and off paper and it was not pretty.  Now none of this means anything on the field, that remains to be seen.

I will utilize 247.

2015 #22 BB
2014 #30 BB
2013 #23 BB
2012 #28 BP
2011 #21 BP
2010 #42 BP
2009 #23 BP
2008 #35 BP
2007 #40 HDN
2006 #23 HDN
2005 #29 HDN
2004 #24 HDN
2003 #42 HDN

[three hog night]

Are you equiped to compare the classes we signed before he arrived to the ones we signed since he arrived?  No reason to compare AR to Wisky, compare AR to AR...  He still might fail here but his pulling in better talent than either one of the past two coaches (minus a few great in-state players here and there).

Bingo.   The tops of the BP classes and BB classes are somewhat close, but the bottom 8-12 players in BB's 2 classes are FAR batter than BP's.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Nope, not a good fit at all. I couldn't stand him at Wisconsin and think even less of him now.

Yes..! A wonderful fit! I loved him at Wisconsin and have been crying for joy since the time he signed his contract with Arkansas..!

Let's hope everyone else is well in between these two posts... 

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Now, lets get this straight, you are wanting to debate recruiting classes, when all I said was the ones he recruits to UA need to be better than the ones he recruited to Wisconsin. Your classes that you are showing me and the results we have had are EXACTLY what I was talking about.

Regardless of who you hypothetically place into the Razorback coaching position, they will not win in the SEC with continuous recruiting classes in the 20's, 30's and 40's. Remember, all I said about recruiting was that his classes need to be better, than he was able to recruit in Madison. I see and acknowledged that he has his 1st top 25 recruiting class now and it is in Fayetteville. This is GOOD, but not good enough yet.

Now, see if this registers with you. I am going to place the 14 SEC schools in the order that they finished last year vs the 14 Big Ten schools in the order that they finished.

Which conference do you believe you can have the most success in, regardless how big your offensive lineman are beginning to get or how quickly your defense is improving? I am pretty sure Bama has an O-line as big as Wiscys and a defense as good as Wiscys. Using Wiscy, only because that is where our coach came from, recruited to and coached for the past 7 years before joining forces with UA last year.

I took the liberty of making Maryland and Rutgers the bottom team in both divisions, since they weren't there last year.


SEC East

1. #5 Missouri vs #12 Ohio State
2. #4 South Carolina vs #22 Wisconsin
3. UGA vs Penn State
4. #24 Vandy vs Indiana
5. Florida vs Illinois
6. Tennessee vs Purdue
7. Kentucky vs Rutgers

SEC West

1. #2 Auburn vs #3 Michigan State
2. #7 Alabama vs Iowa
3. #14 LSU vs Nebraska
4. #18 aTm vs Minnesota
5. Miss State vs Michigan
6. Ole Miss vs Northwestern
7. Arkansas vs Maryland

I don't care if it was 7 years ago, last year as this example shows or this year. The Big Ten simply cannot match up with the SEC and the times they've gotten the chance in the BCS Championship game, they've been sent home embarrassed.

And, I am not knocking Bret's record, but pointing out that he would easily win 10 games in Wisconsin this year against the competition and we know he will be be in a real fight every week in Arkansas playing our schedule to have enough wins to qualify for a Bowl game.

There were 7 ranked SEC teams vs 3 ranked Big Ten teams last year. That trend will continue I believe. Someone posted here that Bret could win 10 games with our team against that typical Big Ten schedule, I agree.

So no, in closing I wasn't so much trying to compare recruiting classes as much as pointing to schedules and the ridiculous edge that Big Ten teams have getting Bowl eligible vs the SEC. I can kind of see why Urban Meyer moved to the Big Ten.  Actually, Bret had a better and easier job in Madision than in Fayetteville. It's easier to go undefeated and get into a CFB playoff from there with the easier schedules. I truly apologize for the length of this post. Ridiculous, but I am done.

Riddle me this brother....

Why is Saban's record in the SEC better than at Michigan State..?

Why was Urban Meyer's record at Florida Better than at OSU..?

Why was Zook's record better at Florida than at Illinois..?


I racked my brain in an attempt to find a coach with a better record in the big10 vs the SEC... I could not do it.

[EastexHawg]

Riddle me this brother....

Why is Saban's record in the SEC better than at Michigan State..?

Why was Urban Meyer's record at Florida Better than at OSU..?

Why was Zook's record better at Florida than at Illinois..?


I racked my brain in an attempt to find a coach with a better record in the big10 vs the SEC... I could not do it.

Meyer was 65-15 (.813) at Florida.  So far he is 24-2 (.923) at Ohio State.  He was 36-12 (.750) during regular season SEC play at Florida and is undefeated (16-0) during the regular season in Big 10 play.

He lost the Big 10 Championship Game to Michigan State last year after going 8-0 in scheduled conference games.

[Peter Porker]

But these 17 SEC wins were all awesome...


17 games

2008
Auburn 5-7 2-6
LSU 8-5 3-5

2009
Auburn 8-5 3-5
SCAR 7-6 3-5
Miss St 5-7 3-5

2010
Georgia 6-7 3-5
Ole Miss 4-8 1-7
Vandy 2-10 1-7
SCAR 9-5 5-3 (1st SEC win vs opp having winning SEC record)
Miss St 9-4 4-4
LSU 11-2 6-2

2011
Auburn 8-5 4-4
Ole Miss 2-10 0-8
Vandy 6-7 2-6
SCAR 11-2 6-2
Tennessee 5-7 1-7
Miss St 7-6 2-6

49-87 combined SEC record.

Average of 3-5 SEC record.

[ChitownHawg]

Meyer was 65-15 (.813) at Florida.  So far he is 24-2 (.923) at Ohio State.  He was 36-12 (.750) during regular season SEC play at Florida and is undefeated (16-0) during the regular season in Big 10 play.

He lost the Big 10 Championship Game to Michigan State last year after going 8-0 in scheduled conference games.

Yep he should have left UM and Zook out of his argument. 

[Peter Porker]

You didn't mind it when Booby made his record on beating Kentucky, Syracuse,  UTEP, Temple, Army, Tulane, ECU, Houston, Cincinnati,  Kentucky,  Army, UNC, ECU, USF, Memphis, TCU, Houston,  Cincinnati,  Tulane, Boise State (ranked), Kentucky,  Oregon State,  FAU, UNC, Cincinnati,  Pitt, Rutgers,  UCONN, Kentucky,  Temple,  Miami (fl) (ranked), Kansas State,  MTSU, Cincinnati,  Syracuse,  WVU (ranked), USF, Pitt, UCONN,  Wake Forest (ranked) 4 ranked teams in 4 years.

His losses USF (unranked), TCU, Memphis (unranked), Miami (oh), USF (unranked), WVU (unranked), VaTech, Rutgers

[Hogwild]

Riddle me this brother....

Why is Saban's record in the SEC better than at Michigan State..?
Michigan State was hit with major probation when Saban arrived

Why was Urban Meyer's record at Florida Better than at OSU..?
It's not

Why was Zook's record better at Florida than at Illinois..?
You aren't even that dumb

[LZH]

Starting to sound a lot like Guv here.

Ouch.  And I thought we were friends.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Ouch.  And I thought we were friends.

"Friends" can be honest with another, right?

[LZH]

"Friends" can be honest with another, right?

Ha ha!  Yeah, brutally so!                 

[OsageJ]

Laid an egg... don't remember him squatting.

He did fall on his fat...ummm....well he fell down coming into your stadium.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

However true some or all of that may be, he still laid an egg last year.  That's all that matters.

My guess is, and that is all that it is, that some of you will have to back up on your prognostications, and I also doubt that you will complain in having to do so. Probably be a lot of, "I knew he would succeed all along", that goes along with this. Of course "vision after the fact", is always 20-20.

[LZH]

My guess is, and that is all that it is, that some of you will have to back up on your prognostications, and I also doubt that you will complain in having to do so. Probably be a lot of, "I knew he would succeed all along", that goes along with this. Of course "vision after the fact", is always 20-20.

Well, I prognosticated last year that we'd win 6 or 7 games - as I'm doing again this year - and I was obviously horribly wrong.  If I were backing up, then I'd be saying that we'll only win 3 or 4 this year.

Maybe I'm overestimating Beliema's coaching ability.  The fact that I've repeatedly said he did a poor job last year only points to the idea that I believe he can do much better.  He's a defensive coach known for tough defenses, and I expected ours to be much improved.  But his team last year allowed more points than JLS's did in 2012 - that's laying an egg in my book.

[EulessHog]

Blame it on the lack of talent and never on the loud mouthed head coach. 

I hope you are right about plus 500.  If not, Hogville will, in general, come down to my current  level of cynicism.

[chitwnhog]

Riddle me this brother....

Why is Saban's record in the SEC better than at Michigan State..?

Why was Urban Meyer's record at Florida Better than at OSU..?

Why was Zook's record better at Florida than at Illinois..?


I racked my brain in an attempt to find a coach with a better record in the big10 vs the SEC... I could not do it.

Boom.

[WashUhog6]

I see your point, but I believe defensive recruiting is by far better under CBB than before. It's not 5* loaded, but there are some real gems in both the 14 and 15 classes, and more secondary players to come as well...

No doubt that it is better and that the defense now has better coaching, emphasis, and player development. But I wasn't intending to compare it to Petrino. The point I tried to make was that it isn't good enough for the style of football Bielema wants to play.

High flying offense with this defensive recruiting? We're more than fine. Ground and pound offense that wants to play ball control and rely on solid defensive play in this conference? It's no where near good enough.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Well, I prognosticated last year that we'd win 6 or 7 games - as I'm doing again this year - and I was obviously horribly wrong.  If I were backing up, then I'd be saying that we'll only win 3 or 4 this year.

Maybe I'm overestimating Beliema's coaching ability.  The fact that I've repeatedly said he did a poor job last year only points to the idea that I believe he can do much better.  He's a defensive coach known for tough defenses, and I expected ours to be much improved.  But his team last year allowed more points than JLS's did in 2012 - that's laying an egg in my book.

I don't disagree that we underachieved last year and I think that there were a number of reasons for that, some within Bielema's control, others not. But ultimately the buck stops with the HC and I doubt that Bielema would disagree with that.

Like I have said many times, I want to see progress. Progress in how these kids play and coaches putting these kids in a position to be successful. But progress also equates to wins, or it should.

I don't think you were wrong to project 6 wins last year. Even with Allen injured last year we were a lot closer to that win total than some folks want to admit. I actually thought we might get lucky (had BA not been injured) and steal one or two more last year, but that wasn't to be.

I hope that we all hope that this team surprises a lot of people this year, including a lot of Hogville members. We all want the same thing, to win more games.

[TNRazorbacker]

I think Bielema will build a competitive team here given enough time to do it. The style of football he employs, once in place, almost always has you in the game.

However I'm also skeptical that he'll get us to the next level. I'm not seeing that we'll be stringing 10 or 11 win seasons together here with this style. I'd agree with the writer in that its hard to beat people playing smash mouth when they always have more meat and depth than you have. Its just bad physics for us and its going to put us in a consistent disadvantage from a matchup standpoint.

I also agree a Gus style offense is much better suited to beating these teams. It neutralizes the size and strength advantage of your opponent. This is precisely why Saban hates this style of play and spends so much time making lame arguments to undermine it.

[ChitownHawg]

Blame it on the lack of talent and never on the loud mouthed head coach. 

I hope you are right about plus 500.  If not, Hogville will, in general, come down to my current  level of cynicism.

Even in the darkest days of Houston Dale Nutt I never was as cynical as you. Just not in my being. I actually avoid people like you as there tends to be a self fulfilling prophesy to this way of viewing life.

[ChitownHawg]

No doubt that it is better and that the defense now has better coaching, emphasis, and player development. But I wasn't intending to compare it to Petrino. The point I tried to make was that it isn't good enough for the style of football Bielema wants to play.

High flying offense with this defensive recruiting? We're more than fine. Ground and pound offense that wants to play ball control and rely on solid defensive play in this conference? It's no where near good enough.

He has had one recruiting class. I don't count the first one because by the time he was hired that class was pretty much set in stone. So I guess you expected him to walk in and instantly pull in top 10 classes?

Top 10 classes after the 2012 season and the scandal of the previous head coach? A top 10 class instantly even thouh our school has never done this?

Was this what you were expecting?

[LZH]

I don't disagree that we underachieved last year and I think that there were a number of reasons for that, some within Bielema's control, others not. But ultimately the buck stops with the HC and I doubt that Bielema would disagree with that.

Like I have said many times, I want to see progress. Progress in how these kids play and coaches putting these kids in a position to be successful. But progress also equates to wins, or it should.

I don't think you were wrong to project 6 wins last year. Even with Allen injured last year we were a lot closer to that win total than some folks want to admit. I actually thought we might get lucky (had BA not been injured) and steal one or two more last year, but that wasn't to be.

I hope that we all hope that this team surprises a lot of people this year, including a lot of Hogville members. We all want the same thing, to win more games.

Yeah, it was a leap of faith, sure.  Even after I got irritated at BB for the twitter thing - and I really did think it showed a lack of character - I figured that it didn't have anything to do with how well he coaches.  I mean, even Nutt's football knowledge wasn't as bad as guys want to remember. 

Also, there are some guys who are great postition coaches or coordinators (Chizk, Orgeron, etc.) but just aren't head coaching material.  I don't see BB as one of those guys because of what he did at Wisconsin.  So I really did expect something like a repeat of 1998, just maybe not that dramatic....somewhere between 9-3 (1998) and 4-8 (2012), and 6 or 7 wins is right in the middle.  I thought we'd see a remarkable improvement, especially on defense.  And, I was just certain that we'd see a huge boost in morale, some swagger or at least a noticeable pep in their step.  But we basically saw an extension of 2012, with some guys just plain quitting in the second half of a few games.

I don't know if Ash is to blame for alot of that or not, but that's two strikes against BB and the job he did last year.  One, he's the head coach and it's up to him to correct these things.  And two, he's a defensive guy and if the saw a problem on that side of the ball he should have stepped in and taken over.

So I'm trying to convince myself that last season was just a bad screw up, on the field and off the field, and this year he'll do what I expected him to do last year.  If not, if this year is just a repeat of last year, then I really don't see him ever winning more than 7 or 8 games here, not matter how long he stays.

[HoopS]

 

Blame it on the lack of talent and never on the loud mouthed head coach. 

I hope you are right about plus 500.  If not, Hogville will, in general, come down to my current  level of cynicism.

what's funny to me is I know for a fact some folks who are chirping the loudest about lack of results and pointing to bad coaching rather than a less than stellar roster used to point to the roster and not coaching when Petrino took over.  Me, I have pointed to the roster both times.

Nutt's roster didn't suit Petrino.  He squeezed out a few wins but it was clear he needed his players.   I was more than happy to sit by and let him collect them.  As he did, the results improved.  I knew he could overcome defensive deficiencies with good play calling.  Having the great flock of homegrown WR's helped make that easier.

The roster BB took over didn't have what he needed.  That same defense that never had been a strength was there but there was no flock of homegrown WR's there.  We had to start 2 true freshmen in the OL.  Our only experienced QB barely had more experience than any of us.  The backup didn't want to be the backup so he left, and then showed why he was the backup here. No, BB didn't squeeze out 5 wins against a tougher schedule but we were dang close. Player mistakes against MSU (fumble) and LSU (blown coverage by one of our vets) cost us 2 wins. 

Neither debut season was great but both showed improved lemonade as the season wore on.

But again, I just laugh when I see folks act like the shape of the roster wasn't a HUGE factor for both coaches when they took over.  Nitpick now but the true test will be where do we stand after he's gotten his system well oiled and in place and the roster is made up primarily of his recruits who he signed because they fit his system.

[three hog night]

:puke:Twhat's funny to me is I know for a fact some folks who are chirping the loudest about lack of results and pointing to bad coaching rather than a less than stellar roster used to point to the roster and not coaching when Petrino took over.  Me, I have pointed to the roster both times.

Nutt's roster didn't suit Petrino.  He squeezed out a few wins but it was clear he needed his players.   I was more than happy to sit by and let him collect them.  As he did, the results improved.  I knew he could overcome defensive deficiencies with good play calling.  Having the great flock of homegrown WR's helped make that easier.

The roster BB took over didn't have what he needed.  That same defense that never had been a strength was there but there was no flock of homegrown WR's there.  We had to start 2 true freshmen in the OL.  Our only experienced QB barely had more experience than any of us.  The backup didn't want to be the backup so he left, and then showed why he was the backup here. No, BB didn't squeeze out 5 wins against a tougher schedule but we were dang close. Player mistakes against MSU (fumble) and LSU (blown coverage by one of our vets) cost us 2 wins. 

Neither debut season was great but both showed improved lemonade as the season wore on.

But again, I just laugh when I see folks act like the shape of the roster wasn't a HUGE factor for both coaches when they took over.  Nitpick now but the true test will be where do we stand after he's gotten his system well oiled and in place and the roster is made up primarily of his recruits who he signed because they fit his system.

You nailed it....what he said ^^^^

[Pork Twain]

Ouch.  And I thought we were friends.

[three hog night]

I think Bielema will build a competitive team here given enough time to do it. The style of football he employs, once in place, almost always has you in the game.

However I'm also skeptical that he'll get us to the next level. I'm not seeing that we'll be stringing 10 or 11 win seasons together here with this style. I'd agree with the writer in that its hard to beat people playing smash mouth when they always have more meat and depth than you have. Its just bad physics for us and its going to put us in a consistent disadvantage from a matchup standpoint.

I also agree a Gus style offense is much better suited to beating these teams. It neutralizes the size and strength advantage of your opponent. This is precisely why Saban hates this style of play and spends so much time making lame arguments to undermine it.

That logic of your cuts both ways.  Its hard to beat people playing  A "Gus Style offense" when they always have more meat and depth than you have. Its just bad physics for us and its going to put us in a consistent disadvantage from a matchup standpoint.

You painted yourself into a corner

[ChitownHawg]

That logic of your cuts both ways.  Its hard to beat people playing  A "Gus Style offense" when they always have more meat and depth than you have. Its just bad physics for us and its going to put us in a consistent disadvantage from a matchup standpoint.

You painted yourself into a corner

Case in point - review some of the Bama games. Ever wonder why our WRs failed? Bama learned to rough em up and make it hard to get off the line. Want to come across the middle? Go ahead and you will pay. The margin of victory was widening against Bama and LSU. Unless you have a Mallett at QB.

They think we cannot recruit against Bama and LSU for these "smash mouth" players. Yet think we would be more successful recruiting against TAM, Auburn, USCe, OSU, OU, etc....

I think there are fewer schools to recruit against with CBB's style than the uptempo.