Where's the Eddie love?

[Pigasaurus]

Eddie did a great job here until he decided to CRAWL to Lexington.

My mom was a big hog b-ball fan and she never forgave him for that.

[Inhogswetrust]

When they find you drunk passed out in the car on campus doesn't help either.

Suing your former employer and trying to embarrass them publicly doesn't help either. No wait................... that was NR.

[Inhogswetrust]

It takes a lot of gall to spit in the face of an entire fanbase on your way out on your hands and knees.

Sutton made it personal during his exit, It was just business with Coach Richardson.

Bull. It was personal with both.

[Sueie]

You mean former employer, right?

And if you're going to cite the suit Richardson brought against JFB and the UofA in a manner against Nolan, then you better do the same against JFB and the UofA because there was plenty of blame to go around.

DON'T you be bringing up anything bad about Frank Broyles.  Did you not see the "Dog and Pony" show they had for him yesterday.  EVEN allowed Houston Nutt to be in attendance.  Screw Frank!!!!

[GuvHog]

Bull. It was personal with both.

Correct. Neither one could stand Frank Broyles and all of their animosity was meant for him. The only difference was that Nolan also despised John White (rightfully so) and took it to another level when he filed that lawsuit against the U of A.

[bigredone]

In all honesty there is one key character in common with all the past coaching problems and that is the mighty JFB. He was a great football coach in his day but should have never been Athletic Director.

As AD he was a great fundraiser but for every good move he made in regards to coaches he made at least as many bad ones. He didn't want to hire MOTHO but then ruined his career by defending him and going along with the Golden Handcuff crap. He hired Nolan but then not long after the NC was trying to undercut him. He gave MOTHO the two year pass that really incited Nolan because at the time he was working on getting rid of Nolan. Sutton left because of him,  he fired Holtz, ran off Hatfield, would not hire Johnson. Fired Jack Crowe one game into a season that really set the tone for the rest of his time as AD.

Yet Broyles is remembered fondly because he won a contested NC 50 years ago. 

Coaches are typically good at teaching their sport, running a business should be left to businessmen. The Razorbacks franchise is one of the most valuable in the country, it needed a businessman and not a former football coach at the helm all those years. Frank would have been more valuable running the Razorback Foundation and could have accomplished all the great fundraising without all the negatives that resulted from him being AD all those years.

[GuvHog]

In all honesty there is one key character in common with all the past coaching problems and that is the mighty JFB. He was a great football coach in his day but should have never been Athletic Director.

As AD he was a great fundraiser but for every good move he made in regards to coaches he made at least as many bad ones. He didn't want to hire MOTHO but then ruined his career by defending him and going along with the Golden Handcuff crap. He hired Nolan but then not long after the NC was trying to undercut him. He gave MOTHO the two year pass that really incited Nolan because at the time he was working on getting rid of Nolan. Sutton left because of him,  he fired Holtz, ran off Hatfield, would not hire Johnson. Fired Jack Crowe one game into a season that really set the tone for the rest of his time as AD.

Yet Broyles is remembered fondly because he won a contested NC 50 years ago. 

Coaches are typically good at teaching their sport, running a business should be left to businessmen. The Razorbacks franchise is one of the most valuable in the country, it needed a businessman and not a former football coach at the helm all those years. Frank would have been more valuable running the Razorback Foundation and could have accomplished all the great fundraising without all the negatives that resulted from him being AD all those years.

Actually Frank is fondly remembered for more than just a national championship, he is remembered for the Razorback Stadium expansion, the outdoor track facility expansion and renovation, Walker Pavilion indoor FB practice building, Baum Stadium, Bogle field (Softball), Indoor track and tennis facility, Bud Walton Arena, etc. The athletic expansion under Broyles leadership was nothing short of amazing.

Frank was far from perfect. He made many mistakes and should have retired years before he finally did but he did many good things too.

[roothawg]

Nolan won a championship and didn't crawl to kensucky for their job.

[GuvHog]

Nolan won a championship and didn't crawl to kensucky for their job.

Nope but he was fired and then filed a lawsuit against the U of A which is worse.

For the record: Eddie apologized in tears to the U of A and the fans for having made that comment.

Nolan has yet to apologize to the U of A for filing that lawsuit.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Don't name anything after either one of them. Hang a "jersey" with Nolan's name from the rafters. As for Eddie, thank him for what he did and let it go at that.
Heck, why doesn't anyone ever mention naming something after Glen Rose or  Eugene Lambert? They each took teams to the NCAA semi-finals in the 1940's.

[bigredone]

Actually Frank is fondly remembered for more than just a national championship, he is remembered for the Razorback Stadium expansion, the outdoor track facility expansion and renovation, Walker Pavilion indoor FB practice building, Baum Stadium, Bogle field (Softball), Indoor track and tennis facility, Bud Walton Arena, etc. The athletic expansion under Broyles leadership was nothing short of amazing.

Frank was far from perfect. He made many mistakes and should have retired years before he finally did but he did many good things too.

Guv, those all happened as a result of the fundraising that I acknowledge he was very good at. Where he was lacking was the ability to deal with people that had the same ego as his, other head coaches. I really don't see where you and I disagree on fundraising.

[GuvHog]

Guv, those all happened as a result of the fundraising that I acknowledge he was very good at. Where he was lacking was the ability to deal with people that had the same ego as his, other head coaches. I really don't see where you and I disagree on fundraising.

We don't. I was just expounding a little backing up what you said.

[thirrdegreetusker]

He was a great football coach in his day but should have never been Athletic Director.

When JFB took over as AD (1974?), football was the only successful sport on campus. The facilties for all other sports were awful, or non-existent. By 1980, we had brand new faciltiies for baseball, basketball, track, tennis.......

The basketball team went from dirt floor to Final Four (1978).

The baseball team went from playing in an old Legion field, for which you had to drive through a TRAILER PARK to get to it, to being in the CWS (1979).

The track team went from running around Razorback Stadium on a cinder track to having a state-of-the art facility. And I think they had some success.........

JFB may be the best AD, ever. He has more NCs than any other AD (thanks, Coach McD). I think he has more total NCs as AD than all but just a couple of colleges have in 100+ years.

Yes, JFB had high expectations of his coaches. Of the coaches he "ran off", well, look at how each did at his next job.

One thing about the guy who hires you. You need to please him. That's Real World 101.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

If you take Nolan's remarks that got him fired in context, it was nothing. If you actually read the transcript of the court proceedings. It even said that he said the same thing some years back. And the suggestion that someone who grew up essentially a third class citizen, couldn't even travel with his college basketball team because of his skin color, should just "let it go" is preposterous, especially coming from an old white dude. Nolan's constant "us against the world" mentality was central to his coaching style. "Let it go." Hilarious.

[bigredone]

One thing about the guy who hires you. You need to please him. That's Real World 101.

And there is the problem, ALL those coaches except MOTHO displeased him. MOTHO gave him something that he just could not get enough of. My point is proven.

Back to the topic, I don't hold Eddie's "crawl" against him any longer after seeing how bad his boss at the time really was.

Eddie got a court named after him where it should have been, OSU. He is not the greatest basketball coach we have had at AR but he probably was at OSU. He had his best run at OSU. When I was in high school I would have loved to have gotten the chance to play for Eddie Sutton, but once I saw the system that Nolan ran I never wanted to see Eddie's again. Eddie played the same game everyone else did at the time.

[thirrdegreetusker]

He didn't want to hire MOTHO but then ruined his career by defending him and going along with the Golden Handcuff crap.

I am amused by the folks who know JFB did not have the power to hire Hootie, but still think he somehow had the power to fire HDN. I think JFB had little, if anything, to do with the golden handcuffs.

Once the BOT or the PTB hire a man, he cannot be fired by another "employee". That's not how the real world works.

[thirrdegreetusker]

As AD he was a great fundraiser but for every good move he made in regards to coaches he made at least as many bad ones.

That math does not work. Completely ignores DeBryin, McDonnel, Van horn............

[bigredone]

That math does not work. Completely ignores DeBryin, McDonnel, Van horn............

Count up the football coaches we cycled through and compare that to the number of hires overall. For every DeBryin, McDonnel, Van Horn there was a firing/running off of Holtz, Hatfield, Sutton, and Nolan. Then hire Heath, Crowe, Ford, and holding on to his greatest love, MOTHO. He would not hire Jimmy Johnson. The math does not look good when you look at the big picture.

No one can dispute his prowess at raising money for facilities but he could have had that ability at the Foundation instead of being AD. Surely you can bring yourself to admit that his handling of the Nutt tarnishes him when if he had been at the foundation it would have never been his problem. Then add the way he worked the press in regards to the Springdale five in defense of MOTHO.

I don't think anyone would argue that he wasn't a great coach. That does not qualify someone to be AD.

OP, sorry that this is off topic again. Eddie was a good basketball coach that taught the accepted way to play in that time period. He did not change the game, and he did not win a NC. That doesn't mean he was awful and is hated, just that he doesn't rate recognition beyond the historical fact that he coached here. 

[Inhogswetrust]

Nolan won a championship and didn't crawl to kensucky for their job.

Eddie didn't sue his former employer. He never said pay me my money and you can have my job.............................

Both very good coaches that left differently BUT under bad circumstances.

[Inhogswetrust]

Nolan won a championship and didn't crawl to kensucky for their job.

Eddie didn't sue his former employer. He never said like Nolan "pay me my money and you can have my job".............................and when they did he sued.

Both very good coaches that left differently BUT under bad circumstances.

[Slater]

Nolan is the greatest coach in Arkansas history, he deserves the honor
Sutton is not the greatest coach in Arkansas history

[Inhogswetrust]

Nolan is the greatest coach in Arkansas history, he deserves the honor
Sutton is not the greatest coach in Arkansas history

Both deserve the admiration of Hog fans. BOTH stood up for the average fan. Both had issues.

[acey33]

How long was Sutton employed by Arkansas before he bit off the hand that fed him and his family?

Nolan didn't coach again in Men's college basketball because he didn't want to coach again, he had plenty of opportunities over the year to get back into it.

The pirate, a long term TTU employee, sued TTU after his firing, he was still involved with the lawsuit when Washington State hired him.

Eddie Sutton tried to burn Kentucky's program to the ground, OSU hired him. He ran his car into a ditch while drunk and high on prescription pain pills, and SF hired him to sit on their bench until he surpassed a meaningless win total he thought would put him in the HOF by now. Eddie only cares about Eddie, if his dependency issues were not a clue enough, his professional demeanor and actions should have been.

Nolan owes no one an apology. He was fired. He felt is was not a justifiable decision based on non-discriminatory actions. He filed a law suit. The court did not agree with the basis of his suit. Period. End of discussion.

Owes no one an apology? I think he owes the fan base an apology...IMO

[thirrdegreetusker]

Surely you can bring yourself to admit that his handling of the Nutt tarnishes him

Handling of Nutt?

The facts seem to suggest that JFB did not have the final say in hiring Nutt. Therefore, it is probable that he had no real power to fire him. Thus, as AD, his only choice was to vigorously defend the silly sob until the PTB decided it was time for hootie to go.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Back to the Eddie/Nolan discussion........

Lots of folks think a man can be judged by "did he leave IT (the world, his community, etc) better than he found it?"

Eddie left the Hogs with 6 consecutive top 25 finishes (according to the UA press guide) and left two underclass players who had NBA careers

Nolan left the program with 3 consecutive finishes out of the top 25, an no NBAers on campus

[ArkansasI]

This post is pretty much a dumpster fire.  So, I'll try to throw a little water on it with the expectation that someone will turn it into gasoline.

Contrary to many posts above, Frank Broyles's relationships with his coaches suffered because he held them accountable to the expectations of Razorback fans.  Frank played the heavy - it was his job.

Aside from his own retirement, every coaching change that has occurred in the Arkansas football program has been with reason.  I don't know why that is so hard for many of us to understand.  What we should wonder is what Broyles might have accomplished had he hung on for a few more years...

Basketball was something all together different.  Broyles - who played both sports at Georgia Tech - loved the game and understood that the program could make money.  Sutton delivered.  By the time Eddie left, he had all kinds of issues that were of his own making.  I don't know what kind of pressure that the expectations of an entire fan base can level, but I'm sure they're pretty heavy.

As impossible as it may be, I encourage everyone to ignore whatever happened between Nolan and Frank when evaluating either man's legacy.  Frank hired Nolan - what vision!  Nolan started rough, both men felt pressure at a time that Nolan suffered the death of his daughter - an immeasurable tragedy.  When things got rolling, who knows what happened between these two egos?  Nolan won less after hitting the pinnacle of the sport.  Then Nolan got his day in court at the expense of the basketball program he constructed.  About 20 years later, we're still trying to recover from the Hiroshima he promised.

As for Frank, a man should build an impressive resume' in 50+ years on the job at the top of a profession that has exploded in interest and money.  In his time, athletic programs have desegregated, and many of his students have seen financial success that most of us only dream about.  Because of Frank, Arkansas has been on the cutting edge of much of the excitement.  I am grateful for his role in our participation.

Love him or hate him - Frank Broyles has been true to the Razorbacks.

[GuvHog]

Handling of Nutt?

The facts seem to suggest that JFB did not have the final say in hiring Nutt. Therefore, it is probable that he had no real power to fire him. Thus, as AD, his only choice was to vigorously defend the silly sob until the PTB decided it was time for hootie to go.

Correct. Frank had nothing to do with the "Golden Handcuffs" crap that John White pulled with Hooty either.

[PeabodyHawg]

Eddie had his weaknesses (Alcohol, Drugs), no doubt about that but he was still a great coach.

Nolan had his weaknesses (Racism), no doubt about it but he was still a National Championship coach

The dumbest thing I've ever read on ANY message board.

Congratulations Guv, one hell of an accomplishment!!!!!

[snortman]

Nolan is the greatest coach in Arkansas history, he deserves the honor
Sutton is not the greatest coach in Arkansas history

Without Eddie, there is no NOLAN. They both deserve the honor

[nextlevel]

Without Eddie, there is no NOLAN. They both deserve the honor

False.

Nolan was not created by Eddie, influenced by Eddie, or taught by Eddie.

Nolan's success was built by himself, not piggybacking off of Eddie.

[snortman]

False.

Nolan was not created by Eddie, influenced by Eddie, or taught by Eddie.

Nolan's success was built by himself, not piggybacking off of Eddie.

Who said they were.

Eddie built the brand and Nolan just took it from there. I doubt Nolan is in the picture if Arkansas basketball is not on the uptick from what Eddie did. Dispute that if you will

[HawgnCorona]

Eddie must have not signed an autograph or something. Without Eddie there is no Nolan period

That is not true. Just because Eddie had the program before Nolan doesn't make your statement a fact.

It is suggested that his--Eddie--off the court issues is what i holding him back...but it is no reason to throw mud at Nolan.

But even so that isn't a requirement making the HOF.

[1highhog]

I was keeping up with our basketball team before Eddie got here, and of course afterwards.  Barnhill went from and absolute Barn to a place you couldn't hear yourself think.  During the heyday of Eddie ball, you couldn't get a ticket anywhere unless you mugged someone, You have to give Eddie his props, he took a chance, a big chance coming here, we were nothing before he came, he put us on the National Basketball scene.  Nobody wanted to come here to play, and if they did, it was a loss.  I truly believe that if Broyles had the money at that time, you could have easily sold out a 20,000 seat Stadium any day of the week.

[nextlevel]

Who said they were.

Eddie built the brand and Nolan just took it from there. I doubt Nolan is in the picture if Arkansas basketball is not on the uptick from what Eddie did. Dispute that if you will

By your logic if there was no Houston Nutt, then there would have been no Bobby Petrino or Bret Beliema

After all, we were playing in a HS level stadium at home before Houston Nutt came along.

[snortman]

By your logic if there was no Houston Nutt, then there would have been no Bobby Petrino or Bret Beliema

After all, we were playing in a HS level stadium at home before Houston Nutt came along.

Your right we would not have had either one, because we should have gotten somebody better than that DA Houston Nutt.

[snortman]

That is not true. Just because Eddie had the program before Nolan doesn't make your statement a fact.

It is suggested that his--Eddie--off the court issues is what i holding him back...but it is no reason to throw mud at Nolan.

But even so that isn't a requirement making the HOF.

Where was I throwing mud at Nolan, I thought Nolan was great too, until he threw the U of A and Frank under the bus on Nat TV. Both took Arkansas to great Heights, probably will never see again.

[thirrdegreetusker]

This post is pretty much a dumpster fire.  So, I'll try to throw a little water on it with the expectation that someone will turn it into gasoline.

Contrary to many posts above, Frank Broyles's relationships with his coaches suffered because he held them accountable to the expectations of Razorback fans.  Frank played the heavy - it was his job.

Aside from his own retirement, every coaching change that has occurred in the Arkansas football program has been with reason.  I don't know why that is so hard for many of us to understand.  What we should wonder is what Broyles might have accomplished had he hung on for a few more years...

Basketball was something all together different.  Broyles - who played both sports at Georgia Tech - loved the game and understood that the program could make money.  Sutton delivered.  By the time Eddie left, he had all kinds of issues that were of his own making.  I don't know what kind of pressure that the expectations of an entire fan base can level, but I'm sure they're pretty heavy.

As impossible as it may be, I encourage everyone to ignore whatever happened between Nolan and Frank when evaluating either man's legacy.  Frank hired Nolan - what vision!  Nolan started rough, both men felt pressure at a time that Nolan suffered the death of his daughter - an immeasurable tragedy.  When things got rolling, who knows what happened between these two egos?  Nolan won less after hitting the pinnacle of the sport.  Then Nolan got his day in court at the expense of the basketball program he constructed.  About 20 years later, we're still trying to recover from the Hiroshima he promised.

As for Frank, a man should build an impressive resume' in 50+ years on the job at the top of a profession that has exploded in interest and money.  In his time, athletic programs have desegregated, and many of his students have seen financial success that most of us only dream about.  Because of Frank, Arkansas has been on the cutting edge of much of the excitement.  I am grateful for his role in our participation.

Love him or hate him - Frank Broyles has been true to the Razorbacks.

An intelligent, fact-based, well-reasoned post. What the heck are you doing on hogville?

[nextlevel]

Your right we would not have had either one, because we should have gotten somebody better than that DA Houston Nutt.

We would still be playing in a stadium with two open ends if not for Nutt.

The fan base would had continued to lose interest in football if not for Nutt.

We never would have won a Title of any sort or played in a big bowl game with Nutt, just as we never would have won a NC or played for one with Sutton.

There for Houston Nutt was to football what Eddie Sutton was to Basketball.

[Inhogswetrust]

We would still be playing in a stadium with two open ends if not for Nutt.

The fan base would had continued to lose interest in football if not for Nutt.

We never would have won a Title of any sort or played in a big bowl game with Nutt, just as we never would have won a NC or played for one with Sutton.

There for Houston Nutt was to football what Eddie Sutton was to Basketball.

I'll have what you're smoking....................................It must really get you high.........................

[thirrdegreetusker]

I recall that the big buzz about Eddie's replacement said it was going to be J. D. Barnett. Wonder whatever happened to him?

[thirrdegreetusker]

I recall that the big buzz about Eddie's replacement said it was going to be J. D. Barnett. Wonder whatever happened to him?

Now I know why folks were excited about the prospect. From WIKI:

VCU Rams (Sun Belt) (1979–1985)
1979–80 VCU 18–12         8–6 5th NCAA 1st Round
1980–81 VCU 24–5           9–3 T–1st NCAA 2nd Round
1981–82 VCU 17–11         7–3 2nd 
1982–83 VCU 24–7           12-2 T–1st NCAA 2nd Round
1983–84 VCU 23–7           11–3 1st NCAA 2nd Round
1984–85 VCU 26–6            12–2 1st NCAA 2nd Round
VCU: 132–48 59–19 
Tulsa Golden Hurricane (Missouri Valley) (1985–1991)
1985–86 Tulsa 23–9        10–6 T–2nd NCAA 1st Round
1986–87 Tulsa 22–8        11–3 1st NCAA 1st Round

[GuvHog]

Nolan was not created by Eddie, influenced by Eddie, or taught by Eddie.

Nolan's success was built by himself, not piggybacking off of Eddie.

The first line is correct. The second one is not.

[nextlevel]

The first line is correct. The second one is not.

Yes, GUV, Eddie Sutton was directly responsible for the NC won by Nolan a decade after Sutton left Arkansas on his hands and knees to tank Kentucky's program and leave them on probation.

[GuvHog]

By your logic if there was no Houston Nutt, then there would have been no Bobby Petrino or Bret Beliema

After all, we were playing in a HS level stadium at home before Houston Nutt came along.

One open end. When Hooty arrived, there were stands in the south end. One has to admit that the program really did stink until Hooty made them believe they could win. Eddie Sutton did the same thing but took the program to greater heights than Hooty took the football program to. When Eddie arrived the program was basically non-existant but when he left, it was more than nationally relevant. Nolan took it from being nationally relevant to it's greatest heights and a national title. IMHO if Nolan had been offered the job and the program was still the same as program had still been basically non-existant as it was when Eddie arrived, Nolan would have turned it down. What the team accomplished under Eddie made the program attractive to Nolan.

[GuvHog]

Yes, GUV, Eddie Sutton was directly responsible for the NC won by Nolan a decade after Sutton left Arkansas on his hands and knees to tank Kentucky's program and leave them on probation.

No, he wasn't. Eddie left Nolan a nationally relevant program but Nolan took the program to it's greatest heights. Eddie gets credit for bringing the program from almost non-existant to more than Nationally relevant. Nolan gets credit for taking the program from more than nationally relevant to it's greatest heights. To act like Eddie accomplished nothing is just plain silly.

[TOM "tbw1"]

Guv, have you read the decision by the judge in Coach Richardson's case or not?

http://www.leagle.com/decision/20041244325FSupp2d919_11155

[thirrdegreetusker]

IMHO if Nolan had been offered the job and the program was still the same as program had still been basically non-existant as it was when Eddie arrived, Nolan would have turned it down. What the team accomplished under Eddie made the program attractive to Nolan.

Absolutely true. Nolan would not have taken a job at a "nothing" program, with dirt floors surrounding the court. Can't blame him. He was an up-and-comer, and the UA job, pre-Sutton, would have been a step down from Tulsa.

[Inhogswetrust]

Now I know why folks were excited about the prospect. From WIKI:

VCU Rams (Sun Belt) (1979–1985)
1979–80 VCU 18–12         8–6 5th NCAA 1st Round
1980–81 VCU 24–5           9–3 T–1st NCAA 2nd Round
1981–82 VCU 17–11         7–3 2nd 
1982–83 VCU 24–7           12-2 T–1st NCAA 2nd Round
1983–84 VCU 23–7           11–3 1st NCAA 2nd Round
1984–85 VCU 26–6            12–2 1st NCAA 2nd Round
VCU: 132–48 59–19 
Tulsa Golden Hurricane (Missouri Valley) (1985–1991)
1985–86 Tulsa 23–9        10–6 T–2nd NCAA 1st Round
1986–87 Tulsa 22–8        11–3 1st NCAA 1st Round

I lived in Richmond Va where VCU is located during some of his time as coach there.  I thought he was a pretty good coach.

[DLUXHOG]

Eddie "screwed the pooch".... re. Kentucky verbal schmerbal....

[GuvHog]

Guv, have you read the decision by the judge in Coach Richardson's case or not?

http://www.leagle.com/decision/20041244325FSupp2d919_11155

He ruled in favor of the University. He stated that Nolan believed he was racially discriminated against but he didn't say HE believed it and didn't rule that discrimination had occurred.