ESPN Top 50 Coaches

[Hawg Red]

By their criteria. We go to the Sweet 16 next year and he will be, also by their criteria.

Correct.

But I honestly don't feel like he's a Top 25 coach by what I consider reasonable criteria. I don't consider that list very reasonable, either.

I have the following coaches over him with the criteria of: body of work, recruiting success, and current success.

Coach K
Billy Donovan
Rick Pitino
Tom Izzo
John Calipari
Roy Williams
Jim Boehiem
Bill Self
Larry Brown
Thad Motta
Mark Few
Sean Miller
John Beilein
Rick Barnes
Bob Huggins
Bo Ryan
Bruce Pearl
Gregg Marshall
Jamie Dixon
Tubby Smith
Steve Fisher
Jay Wright
Scott Drew
Lon Kruger
Kelvin Sampson
Tony Benett

And then there's a group of about 10-15 coaches I'd put Mike in that are debatable.

[bruisemeister]

I would was obvious when they released the honorable mentions and coaches 26-50. 26-75 was his range. There's no way he was ever going to be top 25. He's not a top 25 coach.

Isn't he at least a top 75? Rick Pitino's son is in the list. Thats almost like saying Mike Shula was one of the top 50 college football coaches when he started at Alabama. Hmmm. I bet there was some list that said that.

[HawgAdvocate]

By their criteria. We go to the Sweet 16 next year and he will be, also by their criteria.

That'd put him back in the top 50 range. He'll need consecutive Dance trips to crack the top 25.

[Hawg Red]

Isn't he at least a top 75? Rick Pitino's son is in the list. Thats almost like saying Mike Shula was one of the top 50 college football coaches when he started at Alabama. Hmmm. I bet there was some list that said that.

Definitely Top 75. That's why I said it was obvious he wouldn't be in the Top 25 when the honorable mentions and spots 26-50 came out. It was clear it was about basically only what's happened in the past year or two.

[forrest city joe]

http://m.espn.go.com/ncb/notebook?page=top50coaches50-25

#26-50

No SEC coaches. Bruce Pearl and Kevin Stallings were honorable mention.

Not worth the paper it's written on. Mike Anderson is one of the best coaches in the country.

[Hawg Red]

Not worth the paper it's written on. Mike Anderson is one of the best coaches in the country.

I'd say he's in the top 15% of D1 coaches. So, I agree. But I think he's more of a top 50 than a top 25 coach right now.

[HogBreath]

Not worth the paper it's written on. Mike Anderson is one of the best coaches in the country.

No doubt CMA is one of the all time greats, but the magnificent elite 8 at Mizzou and that incredibly wonderful sweet 16 at UAB are not quite as impressive as they used to be, JoJo.

CMA might have done better with the espen poll if his record against Frank Haith wouldn't have been so bad....1-3.   

[SwinerBock]

Guys, they are *not* going to give MA his due, even if we wind up winning the whole dang thing this next year.  If you recall, the championship game in '94 was implied to be a competition between a "smart" team (Duke) and a bunch of athletes playing street ball (Arkansas).  Never mind the fact that that '94 squad could play some solid defense and beat you either with run-n-gun or half-court sets.

[forrest city joe]

Guys, they are *not* going to give MA his due, even if we wind up winning the whole dang thing this next year.  If you recall, the championship game in '94 was implied to be a competition between a "smart" team (Duke) and a bunch of athletes playing street ball (Arkansas).  Never mind the fact that that '94 squad could play some solid defense and beat you either with run-n-gun or half-court sets.

Yep. i remember after Nolan'sfirst 3 years at Arkansas. some of those same people were saying he could not coach a lick. how did that work out for them?

[forrest city joe]

No doubt CMA is one of the all time greats, but the magnificent elite 8 at Mizzou and that incredibly wonderful sweet 16 at UAB are not quite as impressive as they used to be, JoJo.

CMA might have done better with the espen poll if his record against Frank Haith wouldn't have been so bad....1-3.   

If his record against Haith is hurting him so bad. how come his 3 wins in a row over Cal and KY is not helping. people can't have it both ways. Mike Anderson is one of the best coaches in the country.

[Letsroll1200]

Yep. i remember after Nolan'sfirst 3 years at Arkansas. some of those same people were saying he could not coach a lick. how did that work out for them?

College Basketball Hall of Fame the last time I checked!

[mhuff]

If his record against Haith is hurting him so bad. how come his 3 wins in a row over Cal and KY is not helping. people can't have it both ways. Mike Anderson is one of the best coaches in the country.

I have given MA credit for his wins over Cal and KY. (I knew you didn't mean California.....we got our brains beat out.) However, MA has been lacking overall on the road and against inferior teams. I wish his teams did play like Nolan's and Eddie's teams. We would see consistent defense which we do not. Nolan is my favorite coach of all time. I liked his coaching style and his motivational skills. MA though is MA. I will only judge him on his recent work...... He has great respect in the basketball community, but he is not a top 75 coach the last three years. Coaching awards are for this year unless it a special award for the decade or whatever. Hopefully, MA wins SEC and National Coach of the Year....... this year. I would like to see that. It would mean that he has earned his money.

[PharmacistHog]

If his record against Haith is hurting him so bad. how come his 3 wins in a row over Cal and KY is not helping. people can't have it both ways. Mike Anderson is one of the best coaches in the country.

I'm very happy with Anderson, but I'm curious exactly where you personally would rank him as far as top coaches in the country?  top 5?  top 10?  top 25?

[mhuff]

I'm very happy with Anderson, but I'm curious exactly where you personally would rank him as far as top coaches in the country?  top 5?  top 10?  top 25?

I would imagine that a computer helped in the results of this poll. You know wins and losses.... strength of schedule. etc.    I have no problem with that. It gives ranking on results rather than personality politics.

[PharmacistHog]

I would imagine that a computer helped in the results of this poll. You know wins and losses.... strength of schedule. etc.    I have no problem with that. It gives ranking on results rather than personality politics.

I was just curious where FCJ would rate Coach Anderson.  If I put him in the top 25, it would be really close to 25 (and I'm a fan of Anderson).  He still has some things to prove, in my opinion. 

[mhuff]

I was just curious where FCJ would rate Coach Anderson.  If I put him in the top 25, it would be really close to 25 (and I'm a fan of Anderson).  He still has some things to prove, in my opinion. 

Well, this is a talk board. Some people will always be afraid to take a stand or make a commitment in fear of being criticized or wrong. Bad to be so insecure. I think you ask a legitimate question. However, unless you have all the facts, how can you (anyone) make an informed response. My opinion of his tenure here is not good. Regardless, MA is a fine man...... His coaching philosophy and mine differ. He gets paid the big bucks ,and I am just someone with an opinion. I am not trying to influence anyone's opinion; I am just expressing my own.

[nextlevel]

However, MA has been lacking overall on the road and against inferior teams.

MA's team last year did improve their performance on the road.

Very few non-elite teams fail to struggle on the road.

During the 2012-2013 season, only Florida had a winning record on the road of teams from the SEC, the next best was Ole Miss who was .500.

The 2013-2014 season had top half SEC teams finishing the regular season with road records of:

Florida: 10-2
Kentucky: 5-5
UGA: 4-6
Tenn: 5-6
Arkansas: 3-6
LSU: 3-8
Mizzou: 3-7

So again Florida had a winning record, next best was .500.

The other half of the final four had road records of:

UCONN: 6-4
Wisconsin: 8-3

The only correlation to road records and teams is that the elite teams will generally have a winning road record while good teams will be somewhere around .500, bad teams will be no where close to either.

Road records doesn't mean squat compared to neutral site games in the grand scheme of things.

[mhuff]

MA's team last year did improve their performance on the road.

Very few non-elite teams fail to struggle on the road.

During the 2012-2013 season, only Florida had a winning record on the road of teams from the SEC, the next best was Ole Miss who was .500.

The 2013-2014 season had top half SEC teams finishing the regular season with road records of:

Florida: 10-2
Kentucky: 5-5
UGA: 4-6
Tenn: 5-6
Arkansas: 3-6
LSU: 3-8
Mizzou: 3-7

So again Florida had a winning record, next best was .500.

The other half of the final four had road records of:

UCONN: 6-4
Wisconsin: 8-3

The only correlation to road records and teams is that the elite teams will generally have a winning road record while good teams will be somewhere around .500, bad teams will be no where close to either.

Road records doesn't mean squat compared to neutral site games in the grand scheme of things.

Next, I know the stats about road games and you make some valid points. It's just that I am not used to losing and will not accept a program that gets used to losing. I want it to be very uncomfortable. Chemistry often has a lot to do with that. If you have a team chemistry that will not accept losing, you will lose less and win more close ones on the road. We did improve to three wins on the road. That is a good sign. Hopefully this team will be as good as forecasted. You just can't lose to Ned out of the third grade reader and go to the NCAA's. It should have been easier with the SEC being down the last few years. The SEC distinguished themselves this year in the NCAA's. Perhaps we can be there next year.

[PharmacistHog]

Well, this is a talk board. Some people will always be afraid to take a stand or make a commitment in fear of being criticized or wrong. Bad to be so insecure. I think you ask a legitimate question. However, unless you have all the facts, how can you (anyone) make an informed response. My opinion of his tenure here is not good. Regardless, MA is a fine man...... His coaching philosophy and mine differ. He gets paid the big bucks ,and I am just someone with an opinion. I am not trying to influence anyone's opinion; I am just expressing my own.

I was just trying to get a frame of reference for FCJ's idea of top coaches in the country. I really wasn't arguing or anything. "Top coach in the country" is so subjective. I'm a little confused as to your response to me, not following the "bad to be insecure" statement. Was that directed at me?  And if so why?

[HogBreath]

If his record against Haith is hurting him so bad. how come his 3 wins in a row over Cal and KY is not helping. people can't have it both ways. Mike Anderson is one of the best coaches in the country.

1-3 against Haith, 3-1 against Cal would make him a .500 coach...that may have something to do with him not cracking the top 50,  well, other than in salary.  Thanks a lot for pointing that out Joe.

[nextlevel]

Next, I know the stats about road games and you make some valid points. It's just that I am not used to losing and will not accept a program that gets used to losing. I want it to be very uncomfortable. Chemistry often has a lot to do with that. If you have a team chemistry that will not accept losing, you will lose less and win more close ones on the road. We did improve to three wins on the road. That is a good sign. Hopefully this team will be as good as forecasted. You just can't lose to Ned out of the third grade reader and go to the NCAA's. It should have been easier with the SEC being down the last few years. The SEC distinguished themselves this year in the NCAA's. Perhaps we can be there next year.

Another thing that seems to be a factor in road records is the amount of junior and senior leaders on a team. Florida has been junior/senior led the past two seasons and has done the best in the SEC in this regard. UK has been the most talented team, but road results has been mediocre, they have lost several road games to "inferior competition" under Cal.

What we will have next season is a veteran led team for the first time since Heath's last year and Pel's first, which was nearly a decade ago, the ability to go into opposing SEC gyms and leave with a win should increase with the amount of times the roster has played in that venue.

[MountieDawg]

ONLY 2 COACHES LEFT IN THE TOP 50...  Will the top two be

Calipari and Donovan or Calipari and MA or MA and Donovan???

In all the messages above about road records and wins over this team or that team... All that really matters is did they make it to the dance and once they were there did you go to Final Fours or win Championships....  Winning a game in January against anybody does not make you a great coach... Its called March Madness for a reason, many so-so fans could care less about college basketball until the tournament and the so-so fan never turns on an NIT game.

[TomBigBeeHog]

wow they still haven't answered the question as to who is the top coach its been 5 weeks already.I can't wait for the next poll to tell us how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop.

[HawgAdvocate]

wow they still haven't answered the question as to who is the top coach its been 5 weeks already.

The top 25 coaches..one coach per day...five days per week.

TomBigBeeHog: Hogville's very own math wizard

[TomBigBeeHog]

The top 25 coaches..one coach per day...five days per week.

Did ESPN really think that some dumb@ss would faithfully check their poll five days a week for five weeks for each precious nugget of their opinion poll? Oh wait, you did, didn't you.

[root_hawg]

He is in the 50-75 ranking for me;

[HawgAdvocate]

Did ESPN really think that some dumb@ss would faithfully check their poll five days a week for five weeks for each precious nugget of their opinion poll? Oh wait, you did, didn't you.

Oh, that's right. I almost forgot. You are the oddball who threw a hissy fit on page two.

Even now, weeks later, you still can't comprehend the criteria used by the 50 or so different contributors when compiling this harmless off-season feature that recognizes recent success. Stick to math. It'll take you places.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Oh, that's right. I almost forgot. You are the oddball who threw a hissy fit on page two.

Even now, weeks later, you still can't comprehend the criteria used by the 50 or so different contributors when compiling this harmless off-season feature that recognizes recent success. Stick to math. It'll take you places.

Typical HA garbage, creating a straw man to attack when he can't refute the point of a post.

[PorkSoda]

I don't know if MA deserves to be top 25 but I would take him over 5/7 of the guys they list 25-50.
I hope he is somewhere in the 10-12 range myself.

Pretty sure that's where Ray Biggers ranked him as well

[HawgAdvocate]

Typical HA garbage, creating a straw man to attack when he can't refute the point of a post.

I find it amusing that you believe that there was a point to be made in your prior post.

All you've done within this thread is boo-hoo about ESPN's pundits and the...tens of thousands of people who visit their website every hour of every day to read both fact and opinion regarding American sports....what a fantastic point you've made, somehow. All I've done is provoke more of the 'crazy' out of ya, for my own enjoyment mind you.

[TomBigBeeHog]

We're Arkansas. We have to earn everything we get and sometimes that's not even enough to get our props. There is a bias against Arkansas by some in the national media and the general population that goes beyond sports. As an Arkansan, I have learned those lessons in travels and conversing with those of other regions.

However, from the mocking tone of your retort, I would assume you want to argue. That won't be necessary.

There's nothing to argue about. Look at your three complaints:

1) ESPN pundit (50 of them?) pot stirring
2) the mindless who read/watch what ESPN 'makes up'
3) the perception that 'your travels' has led to you to believe there is a national bias against Arkansas, beyond sports

You are welcome to hate ESPN and the national sports media all you like. Of course, none those complaints have any bearing with what this thread is about.

1.  Yes, ESPN throws stuff out there just to get people talking and to promote their sports talk shows. You might not know that.

2.  Yes, there are some people who cite the last opinion they heard as a fact. Especially if it comes out of the mouth of a TV personality.

3.  Yes, there is a bias against Arkansas and southerners in general by some in other geographical areas. You should read a few more books, newspapers and magazines (Penthouse and Mad Magazine don't count).

4.  I never used the word "hate" anywhere in this thread whether in reference to ESPN or the national media.  Your response to my comment appears to be an intentional, fraudulent, misrepresentation of what I said.

5.  Just for a small sampling of the "National media" bias toward Arkansans and southerners in general, you can read Kathleen Parker's article below.

http://www.newsmax.com/Parker/Southern-Stereotypes-media-polls/2012/03/15/id/432647/

[MountieDawg]

CAL comes in at #2 so its either Billy Donovan or Mike Anderson an #1, I bet FCJ feels confident it will be MA.

[EastexHawg]

Not worth the paper it's written on. Mike Anderson is one of the best coaches in the country.

If I wasn't sure I was on an Arkansas message board before, I would know it after reading this.  Wow, just wow.

[dgfclt]

Crean not being named doesn't change my mind one bit.  Mike's track record is too good not to be named.

The last time he finished higher than third in a conference was 2005.  He has finished higher than 3rd 3-4 times in 12 years and all but 1 I believe were at UAB.

[dgfclt]

If his record against Haith is hurting him so bad. how come his 3 wins in a row over Cal and KY is not helping. people can't have it both ways. Mike Anderson is one of the best coaches in the country.

Based on what?  In the last 8 seasons which were at BCS type of schools he has averaged 6.25th place in his conference.  Has not finished higher than third in any of those years.  Has won 20 games or more 50% of the time.  He is 7 games over .500 in conference in those 8 years.  He went to post season 4 times, 3 were NCAA and yes 1 of those was an Elite 8.  If you want to include UAB then go right ahead but when playing with the big boys he is an average coach.

[nextlevel]

Based on what?  In the last 8 seasons which were at BCS type of schools he has averaged 6.25th place in his conference.  Has not finished higher than third in any of those years.  Has won 20 games or more 50% of the time.  He is 7 games over .500 in conference in those 8 years.  He went to post season 4 times, 3 were NCAA and yes 1 of those was an Elite 8.  If you want to include UAB then go right ahead but when playing with the big boys he is an average coach.

When he was at UAB, Pitino was at Louisville, Calipari at Memphis, and Crean at Marquette.

Those are not "big boys"?

[chiefhawg]

When he was at UAB, Pitino was at Louisville, Calipari at Memphis, and Crean at Marquette.

Those are not "big boys"?

Add Bob Huggins at Cincinnati to the list.

[Hawg Red]

When he was at UAB, Pitino was at Louisville, Calipari at Memphis, and Crean at Marquette.

Those are not "big boys"?

They are, but he didn't have a winning record against them as a whole. Only Tom Crean individually (2-1).

He was 5-11 overall against those coaches at UAB. 2-1 against Crean, 2-4 against Calipari, 1-2 against Huggins, and 0-4 against Pitino.

[Hogeration]

Calipari number 2 and MA owns him.

[intelligence]

Results matter. Lists do not. Lets win some games. If u build it they will come. Mike don't give a d*** about a silly list on ESPN. Neither should you

[nextlevel]

They are, but he didn't have a winning record against them as a whole. Only Tom Crean individually (2-1).

He was 5-11 overall against those coaches at UAB. 2-1 against Crean, 2-4 against Calipari, 1-2 against Huggins, and 0-4 against Pitino.

My point was he was trying to discount Mike's time at UAB because it was, well, at UAB in the CUSA.

The CUSA was a good basketball league during that time and had many "top" coaches of today at schools in the league at that time.

UAB was no where near a top job in that league, it is a job where you can find success as a few coaches have shown, it is also a job you can fail miserably at as many coaches have shown.

[dgfclt]

When he was at UAB, Pitino was at Louisville, Calipari at Memphis, and Crean at Marquette.

Those are not "big boys"?

You named 3 of the 14 teams.  Teams forgotten:  SLU, South Fl, Tulane, ECU, Southern Miss, TCU, Houston, Depaul and Charlotte.  So no that conference was not a big boy conference.  If you would like to include it feel free to.  Big 12 and SEC are big boy conferences. 

[nextlevel]

You named 3 of the 14 teams.  Teams forgotten:  SLU, South Fl, Tulane, ECU, Southern Miss, TCU, Houston, Depaul and Charlotte.  So no that conference was not a big boy conference.  If you would like to include it feel free to.  Big 12 and SEC are big boy conferences. 

LOL.

I guess the A10 and Big East is not a "big boy conference" because the teams in them do not have big name football programs.

[HiggiePiggy]

You named 3 of the 14 teams.  Teams forgotten:  SLU, South Fl, Tulane, ECU, Southern Miss, TCU, Houston, Depaul and Charlotte.  So no that conference was not a big boy conference.  If you would like to include it feel free to.  Big 12 and SEC are big boy conferences. 

Actually SEC in basketball hasn't been a big boy league for a few years now. 

[dgfclt]

LOL.

I guess the A10 and Big East is not a "big boy conference" because the teams in them do not have big name football programs.

I never said anything about football programs.  I just noted that the other teams in the league other than the 3-4 mentioned were not even average basketball programs.  My only issue with Mike is his teams have not done anything noteworthy in awhile and he hasn't stayed anywhere long enough to see if he can sustain a program.  He may do it, he may not, but for some to think he is a top 40 coach or whatever number you want to use is hard to justify right now.  I know the homers don't want to hear it and understand that.  I hope he kills it but not optimistic that we are getting our 2.2M worth.