Article on Ash defense at OSU

[Josh Goforth]

Good read about the changes they are making and the problems Ash had last year.
"The Meyer-Ash-Fickell marriage of conservative defense with an attempt to squeeze and control offenses is one that probably needed a pre-nuptial." http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/5/12/5675862/ohio-state-defensive-coordinator-2014-chris-ash

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Good read about the changes they are making and the problems Ash had last year.
"The Meyer-Ash-Fickell marriage of conservative defense with an attempt to squeeze and control offenses is one that probably needed a pre-nuptial annullment." http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/5/12/5675862/ohio-state-defensive-coordinator-2014-chris-ash

There, I fixed it bro

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Good read about the changes they are making and the problems Ash had last year.
"The Meyer-Ash-Fickell marriage of conservative defense with an attempt to squeeze and control offenses is one that probably needed a pre-nuptial." http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/5/12/5675862/ohio-state-defensive-coordinator-2014-chris-ash

If I read this correctly, they have taken one part of Fickell's philosophy and blended it with one part of Ash's philosophy and the last part being Urban Meyer looking over both of their shoulders and tossing in his two or three cents. Sounds like an awful lot of cooks are in the kitchen.

Seems like that without all of the excellent talent needed to execute his defense last year, Ash played BBDB at Arkansas. Because he didn't have the athletic, fast reading and reacting LB's that he needed last year, he chose to have the DT's try to control the defensive front by a less aggressive gap control type of methodology, trying to protect his LB's and hope that they could fill and make plays. Because of this the DT's didn't gain enough penetration to break up plays or create confusion in the backfield because they were too busy shielding the LB's.

Problem was, sometimes the DE's were more aggressive and instead of turning the runner back into the LB's, they might have over-ran plays that allowed RB's to bounce back outside, or sometimes got hooked/screened out of plays to the edge. I may be wrong but it seemed like he was utilizing two different philosophies at the LOS, one for the DE's, and another for the DT's and LB's. JMO.

I think we can all agree that the majority of the time the back four played soft, trying to keep receivers in front of them. But it sure seemed that there was a lot of confusion (based on what we have heard after the fact) about who had what particular coverage responsibilities given any particular coverage call at times. This led to the exact thing that Ash indicates (in this article) that he wants to avoid in his defensive scheme, big plays by the offense (the LSU game is a fine example).

Now maybe with more highly rated athletes with the ideal characteristics that are discussed in this article, maybe his defense will have more success. But do you really want to be known as a Coordinator whose system only works when you have the very best top 10 talent available to you? If that is the case with Ash we can understand why he seemed so lost when it came to making adjustments last year.

Personally, I think that what we may see from Ohio State's defense in 2014 may be 1/3 Ash, 1/3 Fickell and 1/3 Meyer. No wonder the writer felt that this marriage called for a Pre-Nup. Three cooks in the kitchen should make this an interesting scenario to watch in the fall. "Menage a trois", anyone? I think I'll skip this one.

[Ironhawg]

Personally, I think that what we may see from Ohio State's defense in 2014 may be 1/3 Ash, 1/3 Fickell and 1/3 Meyer. No wonder the writer felt that this marriage called for a Pre-Nup. Three cooks in the kitchen should make this an interesting scenario to watch in the fall. "Menage a trois", anyone? I think I'll skip this one.

I don't know MHF.  This sounds like the potential to be a real train wreck and a train wreck involving THE Ohio State University might be very fun to watch!

[ChitownHawg]

Personally, I think that what we may see from Ohio State's defense in 2014 may be 1/3 Ash, 1/3 Fickell and 1/3 Meyer. No wonder the writer felt that this marriage called for a Pre-Nup. Three cooks in the kitchen should make this an interesting scenario to watch in the fall. "Menage a trois", anyone? I think I'll skip this one.

Who in their right mind would consider that a good career move? Which adds to the gossip that it wasn't Ash's decision to leave.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

I don't know MHF.  This sounds like the potential to be a real train wreck and a train wreck involving THE Ohio State University might be very fun to watch!

Yeah, bunch of privilaged a$$cl@wns. They deserve what they get after the Sugar Bowl.

#stillpissed

[Hoggish1]

Three cooks in the kitchen should make this an interesting scenario to watch in the fall. "Menage a trois", anyone? I think I'll skip this one.

When it comes to Meyer, I can't dislike him enough. 

I like your "three cooks" description of their situation and I hope it give that program a serious case of indigestion.

[Hawgzinbowlz]

I'm certainly relieved that the Ash, Fickell, Meyer triumvirate are mixing the ingredients at "The Ohio State", and not DWRRS.
Long story short was that Ash didn't adapt and install a D that efficiently utilized our personnel and it, (our D), underachieved.
Les says thanks.

" GO HOGS "

[jkstock04]

If I read this correctly, they have taken one part of Fickell's philosophy and blended it with one part of Ash's philosophy and the last part being Urban Meyer looking over both of their shoulders and tossing in his two or three cents. Sounds like an awful lot of cooks are in the kitchen.

Seems like that without all of the excellent talent needed to execute his defense last year, Ash played BBDB at Arkansas. Because he didn't have the athletic, fast reading and reacting LB's that he needed last year, he chose to have the DT's try to control the defensive front by a less aggressive gap control type of methodology, trying to protect his LB's and hope that they could fill and make plays. Because of this the DT's didn't gain enough penetration to break up plays or create confusion in the backfield because they were too busy shielding the LB's.

Problem was, sometimes the DE's were more aggressive and instead of turning the runner back into the LB's, they might have over-ran plays that allowed RB's to bounce back outside, or sometimes got hooked/screened out of plays to the edge. I may be wrong but it seemed like he was utilizing two different philosophies at the LOS, one for the DE's, and another for the DT's and LB's. JMO.

I think we can all agree that the majority of the time the back four played soft, trying to keep receivers in front of them. But it sure seemed that there was a lot of confusion (based on what we have heard after the fact) about who had what particular coverage responsibilities given any particular coverage call at times. This led to the exact thing that Ash indicates (in this article) that he wants to avoid in his defensive scheme, big plays by the offense (the LSU game is a fine example).

Now maybe with more highly rated athletes with the ideal characteristics that are discussed in this article, maybe his defense will have more success. But do you really want to be known as a Coordinator whose system only works when you have the very best top 10 talent available to you? If that is the case with Ash we can understand why he seemed so lost when it came to making adjustments last year.

Personally, I think that what we may see from Ohio State's defense in 2014 may be 1/3 Ash, 1/3 Fickell and 1/3 Meyer. No wonder the writer felt that this marriage called for a Pre-Nup. Three cooks in the kitchen should make this an interesting scenario to watch in the fall. "Menage a trois", anyone? I think I'll skip this one.

Like I have said before if you have four and five star caliber athletes running all over the field most times probably ANY scheme is going to work...and I do put an emphasis on most times. At a place like Arkansas it's different most years, we don't have that luxury.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Like I have said before if you have four and five star caliber athletes running all over the field most times probably ANY scheme is going to work...and I do put an emphasis on most times. At a place like Arkansas it's different most years, we don't have that luxury.

Which makes you question Ash's choice of philosophies and lack of effective adjustments this past season after he had an opportunity to see the hand he had been dealt. Obviously, his defense will probably look better at Ohio State this year given that he has more of those higher end athletes at his disposal to execute his "ideal" defense.

I won't argue that Bielema made a mistake in trusting our defense to this guy last year and I am sure Bielema thought he would do a better job than he did, but then that explains why he was "encouraged" to take his "promotion" to Ohio State. Better for him, better for us. Ash just didn't have what it took to develop a strong SEC kind of defense. Bielema miscalculated, but he at least made an adjustment when he realized that he had made a mistake.

[Josh Goforth]

Asked the author of the article some questions on twitter these are his comments and mine talking about Ash's Defense at Arkansas.


Ian Boyd ‏@Ian_A_Boyd  Apr 30
This is why I don't like gap exchange to defend Zone-Read. What if it's actually Zone slice? http://www.tubechop.com/watch/2716389

@joshgoforth @Ian_A_Boyd @WarRoomEagle It was like he had manziel confused with Taylor Martinez #disappointedhogfan

Ian Boyd ‏@Ian_A_Boyd  Apr 30
@joshgoforth @WarRoomEagle Biggest thing is this: you have to contain Manziel with your pass rush. Have to. Bring pressure with the blitz.

Josh Goforth ‏@joshgoforth  Apr 30
@Ian_A_Boyd @WarRoomEagle whats your take on his coverages? Start season he talked about cover 2 and vs cupcakes looked ok, then switched?

Ian Boyd ‏@Ian_A_Boyd  Apr 30
@joshgoforth I'm seeing normal 4-3 stuff so far. Adjustable Quarters and Cover-3 as the main stuff. Lots of C3 vs A&M. Over and under fronts

Ian Boyd ‏@Ian_A_Boyd  Apr 30
Just watching the Aggie game so far, that's what I've seen. Lots of tackle-end stunts. All very standard stuff.

Ian Boyd ‏@Ian_A_Boyd  Apr 30
This is true for a lot of defensive systems right now but I think Ash's D really needs smart, experienced players.

Ian Boyd ‏@Ian_A_Boyd  Apr 30
I'm guessing these Hog defenders I'm watching didn't quite fit the bill.

[three hog night]

If I read this correctly, they have taken one part of Fickell's philosophy and blended it with one part of Ash's philosophy and the last part being Urban Meyer looking over both of their shoulders and tossing in his two or three cents. Sounds like an awful lot of cooks are in the kitchen.

Seems like that without all of the excellent talent needed to execute his defense last year, Ash played BBDB at Arkansas. Because he didn't have the athletic, fast reading and reacting LB's that he needed last year, he chose to have the DT's try to control the defensive front by a less aggressive gap control type of methodology, trying to protect his LB's and hope that they could fill and make plays. Because of this the DT's didn't gain enough penetration to break up plays or create confusion in the backfield because they were too busy shielding the LB's.

Problem was, sometimes the DE's were more aggressive and instead of turning the runner back into the LB's, they might have over-ran plays that allowed RB's to bounce back outside, or sometimes got hooked/screened out of plays to the edge. I may be wrong but it seemed like he was utilizing two different philosophies at the LOS, one for the DE's, and another for the DT's and LB's. JMO.

I think we can all agree that the majority of the time the back four played soft, trying to keep receivers in front of them. But it sure seemed that there was a lot of confusion (based on what we have heard after the fact) about who had what particular coverage responsibilities given any particular coverage call at times. This led to the exact thing that Ash indicates (in this article) that he wants to avoid in his defensive scheme, big plays by the offense (the LSU game is a fine example).

Now maybe with more highly rated athletes with the ideal characteristics that are discussed in this article, maybe his defense will have more success. But do you really want to be known as a Coordinator whose system only works when you have the very best top 10 talent available to you? If that is the case with Ash we can understand why he seemed so lost when it came to making adjustments last year.

Personally, I think that what we may see from Ohio State's defense in 2014 may be 1/3 Ash, 1/3 Fickell and 1/3 Meyer. No wonder the writer felt that this marriage called for a Pre-Nup. Three cooks in the kitchen should make this an interesting scenario to watch in the fall. "Menage a trois", anyone? I think I'll skip this one.

You make some good points.  I think Ash was the one coach that had the most "oh crap" response to SEC talent.  He had a hard time adjusting in many ways.