Bielema's Draft History and Recruiting rankings

[NVRyield]

Is having both too much to ask?

I believe that's the plan.  BP's mentality was and is to beat you with offense.  You saw that in his recruiting and style.  BB's mentality is certainly to beat you with both.  I think you'll see that in recruiting and style

[MuskogeeHogFan]

When back Bobby offense sputters, there are an inordinate number of QUICK...3and outs. Meaning your defense never gets a break...and...realizes quickly they have to hold back the other team AND score points.

That's a tall order. To blame any defense for not being able to shoulder that load...in the SEC no less, is a little unfair.

Youre right that our talent level was not up to SEC levels. But they did journeyman duty under adverse circumstances.

If I was a defensive recruit today and Petrino called me, I wouldn't answer the phone.

Keep in mind that those numbers go all the way back to 1998.

And offensively, while we had 10 interior O-Linemen drafted, LSU only had 11 and Ohio State only had 10 as well. So, fairly comparable and competitive along the O-Line.

Same story with TE's, 2 each for Arkansas, LSU and Ohio State.

The larger disparity comes in the "skill" positions that were drafted from each school since 1998.

QB's: Arkansas-2, LSU-5, Ohio State-5

RB's: Arkansas-7, LSU-13, Ohio State-10

WR's: Arkansas-8, LSU-13, Ohio State-11

Edit: One of those drafted WR's includes Matt Jones who was drafted as a WR instead of as a QB.

[NVRyield]

Keep in mind that those numbers go all the way back to 1998.

And offensively, while we had 10 interior O-Linemen drafted, LSU only had 11 and Ohio State only had 10 as well. So, fairly comparable and competitive along the O-Line.

Same story with TE's, 2 each for Arkansas, LSU and Ohio State.

The larger disparity comes in the "skill" positions that were drafted from each school since 1998.

QB's: Arkansas-2, LSU-5, Ohio State-5

RB's: Arkansas-7, LSU-13, Ohio State-10

WR's: Arkansas-8, LSU-13, Ohio State-11

Those numbers are sick considering how good our RB's were.  It's amazing how good a coach can look with that many NFL caliber players.

[Peter Porker]

We can say the offense failed us at times and that might be true, but when one unit has to carry the load for the entire team, there are going to be times that this unit sputters, and when it does, you lose.

I'll just say this, and I am going to compare us to two other teams. I looked at how much overall talent we have produced on offense and defense, by position, in terms of NFL Draft choices since 1998. Some may find this relevant, others may not.

                  DE     DT      LB        DB
Arkansas       7       3        3         7
LSU             12     12        5        16
Ohio St         8       2       17        19

Why haven't we had a defense that can hold up its end when things get tough, when the offense needs some help? I think the reason is clear.

Care to do that for offense too? It'd be interesting to see the results.

EDIT* I see you have. Thanks.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Those numbers are sick considering how good our RB's were.  It's amazing how good a coach can look with that many NFL caliber players.

And just look at the difference in draftable NFL level QB's. Two to Five and Five? And then you add in the differences in RB's and WR's, at least in this case we have been operating at a deficit.

Total skill players over that time that were drafted: Arkansas-17, LSU-31, Ohio State-26.

[Steef]

Keep in mind that those numbers go all the way back to 1998.

And offensively, while we had 10 interior O-Linemen drafted, LSU only had 11 and Ohio State only had 10 as well. So, fairly comparable and competitive along the O-Line.

Same story with TE's, 2 each for Arkansas, LSU and Ohio State.

The larger disparity comes in the "skill" positions that were drafted from each school since 1998.

QB's: Arkansas-2, LSU-5, Ohio State-5

RB's: Arkansas-7, LSU-13, Ohio State-10

WR's: Arkansas-8, LSU-13, Ohio State-11

Edit: One of those drafted WR's includes Matt Jones who was drafted as a WR instead of as a QB.

Fair enough, bud.

[Razorbax]

We know CBP did not send any defensive players to the NFL, here is something interesting about CBB, defensive players and the draft.... Here are all the defensive players drafted in the 7 years CBB was the head coach:

\     DE     DT     LB     DB
CBB    3    1    1    1

Fair enough, bud.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

We know CBP did not send any defensive players to the NFL, here is something interesting about CBB, defensive players and the draft.... Here are all the defensive players drafted in the 7 years CBB was the head coach:

\     DE     DT     LB     DB
CBB    3    1    1    1

Actually BP had 2-DE's drafted that he coached for at least part of their time at Arkansas.

Given the same consideration, Bielema had 9 defensive players drafted that he coached for at least part of his time at Wisconsin.

Neither coach might have recruited them or coached them during their entire time at each school, but they both had some level of influence on these players.

As for offensive players, Bielema had 17 at Wisconsin, As for BP-14.

[ChitownHawg]

We know CBP did not send any defensive players to the NFL, here is something interesting about CBB, defensive players and the draft.... Here are all the defensive players drafted in the 7 years CBB was the head coach:

\     DE     DT     LB     DB
CBB    3    1    1    1

Uh - Chris Smith for which CBP said reminded him of Dumerville the other DE he coached and sent to the NFL.

[Razorbax]

I know about Smith, but I thought the criteria was players drafted when he was the Head Coach. Only Beckett meets that criteria and one drafted really does not change the perception. Similarly, the concept of CBB and defensive players...

Uh - Chris Smith for which CBP said reminded him of Dumerville the other DE he coached and sent to the NFL.

[Razorbax]

I know about Smith, but I thought the criteria was players drafted when he was the Head Coach. We wouldn't count T. Jackson as one of HDN's QBs drafted...will we? Only Beckett meets that criteria and one drafted really does not change the perception. Similarly, the concept of CBB and defensive players...

[ChitownHawg]

I know about Smith, but I thought the criteria was players drafted when he was the Head Coach. Only Beckett meets that criteria and one drafted really does not change the perception. Similarly, the concept of CBB and defensive players...

No the OP put in brackets he was counting CBB's five guys from this year while coach at Wisconsin.

Well Smith and Dumerville when he was at Lousiville are two. Flowers could have went into the draft this year and probably would have went in the latter rounds. By no means am I saying a CBP coached player had a good chance to be in the NFL. He has had a few, but not as many as CBB.

[Razorbax]

Are you looking at the players drafted while he was in Louisville? 2004~2007 draft yield 13 draft picks.

Actually BP had 2-DE's drafted that he coached for at least part of their time at Arkansas.

Given the same consideration, Bielema had 9 defensive players drafted that he coached for at least part of his time at Wisconsin.

Neither coach might have recruited them or coached them during their entire time at each school, but they both had some level of influence on these players.

As for offensive players, Bielema had 17 at Wisconsin, As for BP-14.

[Razorbax]

If that was the case, should we count the Louisville players when CBP was the HC there?

No the OP put in brackets he was counting CBB's five guys from this year while coach at Wisconsin.

Well Smith and Dumerville when he was at Lousiville are two. Flowers could have went into the draft this year and probably would have went in the latter rounds. By no means am I saying a CBP coached player had a good chance to be in the NFL. He has had a few, but not as many as CBB.

[ChitownHawg]

If that was the case, should we count the Louisville players when CBP was the HC there?

To be fair we should. I didn't bother research as the current discussion was DEs and I knew Dumerville off the top of my head. CBP also had Bush and at least one QB.

[Razorbax]

Unless my count is wrong....2004~2007 draft yield 13 draft picks. If we add his players that were drafted in 2008 (Since this year's at Wisconsin was counted for CBB) the total jumps to 15

To be fair we should. I didn't bother research as the current discussion was DEs and I knew Dumerville off the top of my head. CBP also had Bush and at least one QB.

[Bigdsrip]

A couple thoughts from Badgerland...

2B's was the recruiting coordinator at UW in 2004 and 2005 so I don't think it is a stretch to count those early years as his guys too.  Alvarez had pretty much stopped recruiting after the disaster of Shoe-gate killed all our momentum (and took a bunch of scholarships) following the back-to-back Rose Bowl wins in 1999-2000.  2B's is credited with putting life back into the program with his recruiting in 04 and 05, those are more his guys than Barry's.

These numbers show me something very clearly... the recruiting rankings don't mean or know jack squat.  They are completely worthless as a meaningful measure of anything.  They are a for-profit business that has absolutely no correlation or connection to what goes on inside a college program.  If the scouts who did the reviews for those sites were any good they would be working for an NFL or college team.  It is no secret that college football is a WAY bigger deal down south than it is anywhere else and the subscription numbers, and scouting resources and rankings, reflect that.  The SEC is certainly the most talented conference but the gap is not nearly as big as many like to make it.  NFL level players can be found in every state, whether Scout, Rivals, 247 or whomever has an interest in covering that area or not.  Bottom line is that success on the field and getting players to the next level reflect a strong program, recruiting rankings are nice to talk about but in the end mean nothing.

I still think that Bielema will be successful at Arkansas if he is given time to get his program up and running.  I am a little worried that he doesn't have someone to kick his butt back into line anymore because his boorish behavior seems to be coming back out again.  If he doesn't rein it in a bit he very well may talk/act himself out of a job, as he was very close to doing in 2008 and 2009 before straightening out.  He has managed to go from national darling, and a bright up and comer to a national laughingstock in a little over a year, and not because of his record (though that certainly didn't help).  One thing about 2B's that is undeniable is that he has shown that he can and will adjust when something isn't working.  He is still a young guy and is learning, but more importantly he is willing to change.  He did it on the field and off at UW and I see no reason to believe that he won't also do it at Arkansas. 

After his hot start in 2006 we had gotten worse each year since and 2B's seat was getting quite warm.  It came to a head in 2008 when we had a locker room meltdown as a 7-0 start ended in a 7-6 season with our worst bowl loss since 1997.  That offseason he kicked two starting safeties off the team to change the atmosphere in the locker room and completely overhauled the type of kids he recruited and, viola! The next year we won 10 games, kicked the crap out of a cocky Miami team in Florida (we played them about a week after the ESPN 30 for 30 on 'The U' came out and it defiantly went to their heads before we kicked them in) and then won three straight B1G titles and came within the last possession of winning three Rose Bowls, despite being big underdogs in each one.

The point being that he can come back from rough situations, he just needs time.

[code red]

Thanks for the hard work and research. A lot of nice FACTS for a change. Unfortunately for those with a anti-CBB agenda those are mere "inconvenient truths". It merely reenforces their "don't confuse me with facts 'cause my mind's made up" stance.

3-9 & 0-8 are facts too.  Let's keep it real.

[hawgsalot]

3-9 & 0-8 are facts too.  Let's keep it real.

Why are you posting Auburns 2012 results, LOL how did that turn out.   How about 5-7 & 2-6, do you really think it's that much difference?  Seriously code I know you beat the drum, but looking at all this you can't see a little positive.  I hate to be Captain obvious but CBB has gotten it done recruiting and coaching those players to NFL draft picks.  We haven't had a coach achieve that, at that level,  since joining the SEC.  Obviously, he can win conference championships because he has in one of the big 5 conferences.  Nothing in the world wrong with some of us seeing a glimmer of hope based on past results, unless you have agenda.   At the end of the day he's got to do it here and in the sec, if he doesn't he'll be asked to move on.  Currently, we haven't even eaten brunch in the day of CBBs tenure at AR.  LOL yes I've been watching 24!