Arkansas showed better in the draft than on the field

[Dark Helmet Hog]

This team is not void of talent but it had a lot of significant holes and lack of depth.

I agree.

[Pork Twain]

I agree.

While I am very happy for all of our players that were drafted, I am not going to make a lot of a FB and a kicker getting drafted in the 7th.  If it would have been a qb and a wr in the first, then I would be with you.

[thebignasty]

Actually the OP had nothing to do with stars or recruiting hits and misses. The OP like most other threads here morphed into an entirely different topic.

The OP seems to hint that we had more talent than our record from last season indicated. Couple the draft with the coaching changes that we saw in the off-season and it appears that the OP might just be right.

Nah, OP was full of it.  For reasons already discussed.

[Call a Hog]

Arkansas finished tied for 12th in players drafted.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/5/8/5697792/2014-nfl-draft-first-round-picks-schools-conferences-recruit-ratings

Also very interesting was that the average star ranking (247 composite) was 2.73 for drafted players.

The Hogs were closer to being good than most think. The draft numbers back this up.

[harrisburghog]

Lets see four players drafted each year the past three years, guess ole BP's recruiting classes weren't that bad after all.

[ChitownHawg]

Right...  Except that the OP did the morphing.  A 3, 5 and two 7's (kicker and FB) does not a stacked team make.

Yep, get past the 3rd round and the chances of making the team drop dramatically. While it is cool they were drafted and some via free agent - probably Swanson, Smith, and Hocker are the only ones with a true chance.

Now I hope some prove me wrong, but 4th rounders or later don't generally make an NFL team.

[Peter Porker]

Lets see four players drafted each year the past three years, guess ole BP's recruiting classes weren't that bad after all.

Bequette was a Nutt recruit. So that makes 11 total. That's the same amount Nutt had drafted in 2007-2008. Also, 5 of the 11 are from the 2008 recruiting class and all were instate kids.

[LZH]

Lets see four players drafted each year the past three years, guess ole BP's recruiting classes weren't that bad after all.

I can't believe it took over 50 posts...........

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Lets see four players drafted each year the past three years, guess ole BP's recruiting classes weren't that bad after all.

Here's the last 4 years for all schools.

                       2014        2013        2012        2011         Total
Alabama              8              8            8             5              29
LSU                    9              9            5             6              29
Georgia               2              8            7             6              23
Florida                4              8            2             4              18
S. Carolina           2              7            6             2              17
Arkansas             4              4            4             3              15
Tx A&M               3              5            4             1              13
Miss St               1              3            3             4               11
Auburn               4              1            1             4               10
Tenn                  3              4            1             2               10
Mizzou                4              2            1             3               10
Vandy                3              2             2             0                7
Kentucky            1              1             2             1                5
Ole Miss              1              0             1             1                3

Source: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?abbr=M&collegeName=Mississippi&abbrFlag=0&type=school

[GuvHog]

That just goes to show that the recruiting from 2008 2012 was better than some believe.

[Peter Porker]

That just goes to show that the recruiting from 2008 2012 was better than some believe.

Read my post.

[acey33]

We would get more high star players if we wore black uniforms and never played any games in Little Rock

and won 90% of our games

[PorkRinds]

How does Ole Miss keep getting decent recruiting classes when they put hardly anyone in the NFL?  I'd be using this every chance I got when we are head to head with them for a recruit.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I think maybe I was expecting way too much by thinking there could be conversation without insults.

twas in no way directed at you.  I was speaking generally.  Fans are typically short sighted.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

How does Ole Miss keep getting decent recruiting classes when they put hardly anyone in the NFL?  I'd be using this every chance I got when we are head to head with them for a recruit.

New staff that is selling the program and the future to these kids. Same way we keep getting really great O-Linemen. Apparently, they are really good in the living rooms of these recruits.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

That just goes to show that the recruiting from 2008 2012 was better than some believe.

Don't get too excited about it, when you stretch it out over 10 years we come in #7 in the current SEC in the avg number of NFL draftees produced per year with 3.

Problem is, what separates us from the top school (LSU) is that they average turning out 6.3 per year over that time while the low end school (Kentucky) averages only 1.5 per year.

3.3 per year separates us from LSU while only 1.5 per year separates us from the bottom of the conference. That is why I am so enthused that our recruiting seems to be improving now.

[weresoclose]

The most glaring lack of talent in the program does not involve the players. 

[Peter Porker]

The most glaring lack of talent in the program does not involve the players.

Correct. It's certain fans that lack a lot. We will call it talent.

[hogsanity]

That just goes to show that the recruiting from 2008 2012 was better than some believe.

No it doesn't.  At least 3 of those players drafted in that time from were Nutt commits.  And, not real sure that having a FB and K taken in the 7th round is an indicator that the team was loaded with talent.

[weresoclose]

It's funny to see the apologists squirm to figure out the angle to support the status quo in this thread.  Nice work, OP.

[31to6]

Don't get too excited about it, when you stretch it out over 10 years we come in #7 in the current SEC in the avg number of NFL draftees produced per year with 3.

Problem is, what separates us from the top school (LSU) is that they average turning out 6.3 per year over that time while the low end school (Kentucky) averages only 1.5 per year.

3.3 per year separates us from LSU while only 1.5 per year separates us from the bottom of the conference. That is why I am so enthused that our recruiting seems to be improving now.

Sheer number of draftees is only part of the story.

LSU and Alabama often have as many kids going in Rds 1 and 2 as we have total.

That being said, we don't need to have LSU-level NFL talent to beat LSU as we have demonstrated many times.

(Alabama under Saban has been a different story, but... he's got a winning record against every SEC team and is undefeated against several of them--we are not alone.)

What we DO need, since we likely will not ever have a roster with 20 NFL prospects in the 2-deep at the same time, is to have the talent we do get in the right places (DL plus a couple others in the back 7, OL, RB maybe a WR, QB!!!) and we need to have 1-2 game breaking freaks that can put the team on their shoulders in big games like your DMACs/Matt Jones/Mallett/Joe Adams type players.

It helps to have 3 NFL backs for depth and continuity down the stretch, but you AT LEAST have to have one that you can go to when you have to grind out the game-winning drive to break their back. (Knile vs LSU, for example).

[Pork Twain]

That just goes to show that the recruiting from 2008 2012 was better than some believe.

Right Guv...  Whatever you do, don't look past the draft picks to actually see who was drafted and in what round.  People seem to be over-simplifying this.  This year is a perfect example as two of our four were 7th rounders.  That is not as impressive as it would be if we actually had one in the first round.

In honor of Wilson, I will no longer turn threads into BB vs BP or foster others that do.

[Peter Porker]

It's funny to see the apologists squirm to figure out the angle to support the status quo in this thread.  Nice work, OP.

I'm scared of the reality you live in.

[sportster365]

Arkansas finished tied for 12th in players drafted.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/5/8/5697792/2014-nfl-draft-first-round-picks-schools-conferences-recruit-ratings

So much for the Bobby didn't recruit very well argument. And the we just didn't have the talent excuses. Just outside the top 10 schools isn't bad. Actually quite well imo and should be used a good talking point on the recruiting trail.

[majp51]

But we have a talent deficiency

Of course we had a talent deficiency. Our first pick was at Center, and in the 3rd round. Next was a DE in the 5th, followed by two 7th rounders.

Only one of thee above, Chris Smith (5th round) could be considered to be playing at a "Skill Position" , We had no impact players drafted at any impact position at all.

But let's assume that for the moment, all 4 had been drafted in the first 2 round and they played, MLB, DE, RB, and CB respectively. That still would not be reflective of any amount of actual talent or not. No one said that JLS or CBP left us with absolutely zero talent.

[hogsanity]

So, having a center, de, fb, and K drafted, none higher than 3rd round, means the team was really talented? 

[Peter Porker]

So, having a center, de, fb, and K drafted, none higher than 3rd round, means the team was really talented?

Yes. According to the Booby lovers.

[sportster365]

You folks keep talking about a 2 of the 4 being a kicker and full back and if I weren't a Razorback fan I'd probably reiterate the same points as well. But the fact is we had more than just 4 NFL players on last year's roster.

For one Trey Flowers would have easily been selected in the NFL draft if chosen not to stay. I'm somewhat surprised that neither Byron Jones nor Robert Thomas were not selected. I do feel we have 2-3 NFL caliber RBs in Collins-Williams-Marshall. An NFL TE in Hunter Henry. Some NFL O-Line men in Cook-Skipper-Kirkland. JaMichael Winston and Darius Philon are 2 more NFL D-Linemen on this team. I think Otha Peters has just a good of a chance as any one on our roster to make the league at the LB spot but has to really show it in his next 2 years. For the most part the only thing stopping most of these guys from going pro last year was their ineligibility. So there was most definitely some NFL talent in some of our skill positions.

So to say this team was talent depleted is an understatement. I think we have talent at QB and receiver as well, but just as Robb Smith has showed us we just need the right guy to showcase that talent.

[PorkRinds]

You folks keep talking about a 2 of the 4 being a kicker and full back and if I weren't a Razorback fan I'd probably reiterate the same points as well. But the fact is we had more than just 4 NFL players on last year's roster.

For one Trey Flowers would have easily been selected in the NFL draft if chosen not to stay. I'm somewhat surprised that neither Byron Jones nor Robert Thomas were not selected. I do feel we have 2-3 NFL caliber RBs in Collins-Williams-Marshall. An NFL TE in Hunter Henry. Some NFL O-Line men in Cook-Skipper-Kirkland. JaMichael Winston and Darius Philon are 2 more NFL D-Linemen on this team. I think Otha Peters has just a good of a chance as any one on our roster to make the league at the LB spot but has to really show it in his next 2 years. For the most part the only thing stopping most of these guys from going pro last year was their ineligibility.

The thing you're not seeing here is the EXPERIENCE of those you listed.  All the RB's are young and without a ton of experience.  Kirkland and Skipper were true Freshmen, so zero chance they are NFL caliber last season.  Philon was a redshirt freshman, so he wouldn't be either.  These guys WILL be NFL caliber one day, but not last season.  Heck the good majority of those you mentioned had only been out of high school a few months when the season started, but you're calling them NFL caliber last season?  Come on.

[ChitownHawg]

Since these drafted were CBP's I will raise this point. While Nutt would have from time to time good recruiting classes - each one always had holes. Or didn't t address needs.

CBP had the same issues. There was not a skill position he didn't like even when the back seven were screaming for the need of talented players.

Now where CBP is heads above Nutt is his play calling. Take out the motorcycle accident and I would say CBP was superior in running a professional program. Just neither could recruit a class where someone could say "Yep the position needs were met."

Will CBB fare any better? Idk, yet.

[ChitownHawg]

Of course we had a talent deficiency. Our first pick was at Center, and in the 3rd round. Next was a DE in the 5th, followed by two 7th rounders.

Only one of thee above, Chris Smith (5th round) could be considered to be playing at a "Skill Position" , We had no impact players drafted at any impact position at all.

But let's assume that for the moment, all 4 had been drafted in the first 2 round and they played, MLB, DE, RB, and CB respectively. That still would not be reflective of any amount of actual talent or not. No one said that JLS or CBP left us with absolutely zero talent.

Good points. What shocked me was the write up on Swanson on NFL.com They said he was the weakest of the OL during the combine. Then CBB said he would have liked another year of development for Swanson.

When your best OL is considered the weakest in body strength I think that speaks volumes about the previous staffs' development skills.

Swanson will overcome this because he will work his butt off. But his 3rd round status is a reflection of the development skills of the previous staff.

Here is a link:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/travis-swanson?id=2543506

[sportster365]

The thing you're not seeing here is the EXPERIENCE of those you listed.  All the RB's are young and without a ton of experience.  Kirkland and Skipper were true Freshmen, so zero chance they are NFL caliber last season.  Philon was a redshirt freshman, so he wouldn't be either.  These guys WILL be NFL caliber one day, but not last season.  Heck the good majority of those you mentioned had only been out of high school a few months when the season started, but you're calling them NFL caliber last season?  Come on.

Again that's exactly why I noted their ineligibility in my post. If not for the age requirement some of these guys could have very easily been considered "one and done". But the point remains is that we do have NFL caliber skill players on our roster and just because it didn't show up in the draft doesn't mean they're not here.

[sportster365]

Since these drafted were CBP's I will raise this point. While Nutt would have from time to time good recruiting classes - each one always had holes. Or didn't t address needs.

CBP had the same issues. There was not a skill position he didn't like even when the back seven were screaming for the need of talented players.

Now where CBP is heads above Nutt is his play calling. Take out the motorcycle accident and I would say CBP was superior in running a professional program. Just neither could recruit a class where someone could say "Yep the position needs were met."

Will CBB fare any better? Idk, yet.

You can't blame Petrino for the results of a program he's been 2 years removed from. He would have addressed any skill position issues in 2012.  He already had Allen and Williams in the wing waiting to replace Tyler and Knile. I'm sure he was addressing replacing Graggs as well. We were deep at receiver so I seriously doubt that would have been of any concern under Petrino.

For those trying to compare Arkansas to LSU and Alabama right now is like trying compare apples to oranges. They have 4 stars waiting in the wings. Petrino was building that, he just ruined his chance to finish it.

[sportster365]

Good points. What shocked me was the write up on Swanson on NFL.com They said he was the weakest of the OL during the combine. Then CBB said he would have liked another year of development for Swanson.

When your best OL is considered the weakest in body strength I think that speaks volumes about the previous staffs' development skills.

Swanson will overcome this because he will work his butt off. But his 3rd round status is a reflection of the development skills of the previous staff.

Here is a link:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/travis-swanson?id=2543506

Beilema said Swanson was the best center he's ever coached. And the S&C coach is supposed to be one of the best in the game. Yet you've still managed to find a way to blame Petrino.

[ChitownHawg]

I think this may help with the discussion. The link below discussing the expectations of a player depending upon his draft placement.

The site has some nice graphs, but I cannot get them to copy, so you will have to visit the site to read.

http://datascopeanalytics.com/what-we-think/2012/05/01/the-chance-of-a-bust-in-the-nfl-draft

"What is a “bust?” We'll look at it two different ways. First, a bust is a player that ends up with a value score of less than 5 according to pro-football-reference.com. A value of less than 5 is equivalent to a marginal role player that has limited game experience and contributes little to no value to an NFL franchise. Here it is in a visual:

You can see from about round 6 (pick 160) and later, the percent chance of failing on a draft pick is over 70%. With such a low hit rate, NFL teams should focus their decision making on players that fit their current schema and can be a strong contributor on special teams."

[Bubba's Bruisers]

So, having a center, de, fb, and K drafted, none higher than 3rd round, means the team was really talented? 

Yes, sometimes I wonder if anyone actually watched our games last season.  Sure, BB may not be all world and BA was injured most of the season, but dang, we were definitely out-manned...not a whole lot for the staff to work with.  WR and defensive back 7 play were horrible.  The offensive and defensive lines were somewhat bright spots, and the RB's go without saying.

Maybe some of it was coaching related, but most of it was a lack of talent or talented depth...IMO.

[ChitownHawg]

Beilema said Swanson was the best center he's ever coached. And the S&C coach is supposed to be one of the best in the game. Yet you've still managed to find a way to blame Petrino.

Quit looking to argue on behalf of CBP and you would realize it takes more than one year to develop a lineman's strength. CBB said Swanson was the best as he has skills many don't, but his body is not fully developed. However, go over to the write up of Swanson. You will read he will have to increase his strength before he can play.

[hogsanity]

Beilema said Swanson was the best center he's ever coached. And the S&C coach is supposed to be one of the best in the game. Yet you've still managed to find a way to blame Petrino.

CBB and staff had what, 9 months, 10 months, but only 5 months of off season with him. 

Here is what you can blame bp for.  2009 and 2010 which should have provided sr and jr leadership last year were just horrible classes, overall.  2011 was a little better.  He was apparently incapable of signing line backers. 

His best class was, by far, the 2008 class was made up of players that, in many cases, had committed to the previous staff.  His biggest "gets" was Joe Adams and Tyler Wilson. After that class, even the Wr's he signed were not that great outside of Cobi.

[ChitownHawg]

You can't blame Petrino for the results of a program he's been 2 years removed from. He would have addressed any skill position issues in 2012.  He already had Allen and Williams in the wing waiting to replace Tyler and Knile. I'm sure he was addressing replacing Graggs as well. We were deep at receiver so I seriously doubt that would have been of any concern under Petrino.

For those trying to compare Arkansas to LSU and Alabama right now is like trying compare apples to oranges. They have 4 stars waiting in the wings. Petrino was building that, he just ruined his chance to finish it.

Again quit coming into a post prepared to defend CBP. I didn't blame him two years later. I blamed him for the holes in his recruiting classes while he was here.

[MJ2]

Lets see four players drafted each year the past three years, guess ole BP's recruiting classes weren't that bad after all.

My thoughts exactly.

It further shows that the talent on the team is not far worse than our opponents, but the preparation and the game management is.    The difference for the last 2 years was on the sideline, not on the playing field.

[hogsanity]

My thoughts exactly.

It further shows that the talent on the team is not far worse than our opponents, but the preparation and the game management is.    The difference for the last 2 years was on the sideline, not on the playing field.

Yes, because our line backer and Db play has been outstanding, and our receivers last year were just running away from SEC defenders.

Look at the actual draftees, 4 wr's, 2 te's, a fb, a kicker, a center, a de, and a 2 qb.  And, out of all of those, what was the highest any were drafted, and how many prior to 2014 are even still in the league?

[Call a Hog]

So, having a center, de, fb, and K drafted, none higher than 3rd round, means the team was really talented?

We played a pretty talented LSU team toe to toe. They did not look that more talented than us.

[DLUXHOG]

Meanwhile... is Austin in meltdown since NONE of theirs were selected?

[Peter Porker]

You folks keep talking about a 2 of the 4 being a kicker and full back and if I weren't a Razorback fan I'd probably reiterate the same points as well. But the fact is we had more than just 4 NFL players on last year's roster.

For one Trey Flowers would have easily been selected in the NFL draft if chosen not to stay. I'm somewhat surprised that neither Byron Jones nor Robert Thomas were not selected. I do feel we have 2-3 NFL caliber RBs in Collins-Williams-Marshall. An NFL TE in Hunter Henry. Some NFL O-Line men in Cook-Skipper-Kirkland. JaMichael Winston and Darius Philon are 2 more NFL D-Linemen on this team. I think Otha Peters has just a good of a chance as any one on our roster to make the league at the LB spot but has to really show it in his next 2 years. For the most part the only thing stopping most of these guys from going pro last year was their ineligibility. So there was most definitely some NFL talent in some of our skill positions.

So to say this team was talent depleted is an understatement. I think we have talent at QB and receiver as well, but just as Robb Smith has showed us we just need the right guy to showcase that talent.

You named 13 and 5 are Bielema's recruits he signed the first 2 months he was on the job.

[Peter Porker]

We played a pretty talented LSU team toe to toe. They did not look that more talented than us.

LSU usually plays to the level of competition.

[Peter Porker]

You can't blame Petrino for the results of a program he's been 2 years removed from. He would have addressed any skill position issues in 2012.  He already had Allen and Williams in the wing waiting to replace Tyler and Knile. I'm sure he was addressing replacing Graggs as well. We were deep at receiver so I seriously doubt that would have been of any concern under Petrino.

For those trying to compare Arkansas to LSU and Alabama right now is like trying compare apples to oranges. They have 4 stars waiting in the wings. Petrino was building that, he just ruined his chance to finish it.

Someone should explain to you how recruiting works. I'm not sure you get it. Of course you seem like one of the fans that lack "talent" I was referring to earlier in the thread.

[Piggfoot]

Good lord folks would you say a team that had four honorable mentions on an all SEC team were the equivalent to a team with four first or second teamers. What kind of argument are you trying to make?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

We played a pretty talented LSU team toe to toe. They did not look that more talented than us.

We did, and it is especially hopeful since it was at the end of the season.  We did the same with TAMU.  There were glimpses, but only glimpses...unfortunately. 

I expect to see a measurably improved team this season, provided we don't get the injury bug, but I fear the improvement won't reflect much improvement in the W/L column. 

Shouldn't be any excuse for a losing season in 2015, though.

[sportster365]

You named 13 and 5 are Bielema's recruits he signed the first 2 months he was on the job.

Yes I know. It was an impressive job by he and his staff.

[sportster365]

Someone should explain to you how recruiting works. I'm not sure you get it. Of course you seem like one of the fans that lack "talent" I was referring to earlier in the thread.

Well I think Saban runs your prototype program. He doesn't rebuild he simply reloads. Each year an old star leaves and a new star steps up. Usually the new star's been waiting in the wing for a year or 2 before he gains the reigns.

Just take his RBs for instance... Ingram/Richardson - Richardson/Lacy - Lacy/Yeldon - Yeldon/Drake/Henry

LBs - McClain/Hightower - Hightower/Upshaw/Mosley - Mosley/Hubbard

They simply pass the torch as if they're running relays.