The SEC & Cheating

[redeye]

Florida has multiple NCAA titles in basketball and football, Arkansas has 1 in basketball and that is it. The claimed football title is not recognized by either the AP or the UPI who were the mainstream polls back in the 60's....

They weren't coming to Arkansas before Petrino... But I don't suspect either came due to cheating... Just making the point that good players go to schools without having to cheat....

And that's why it was called a mythical title back then.  You may not recognize our '64 title, but the NCAA does and so do most people who were living back then.  If it happened today, it would've been outright without any disambiguation.  The real shame is that Arkansas didn't win more titles around that time, while Alabama won 2 with records worse then what Arkansas had.

ESPN's prestige ratings -- last computed in 2009 -- have Florida at 15th, Arkansas at 19th and Auburn at 21st.  When they computed them in 1998, Arkansas was 18th, Florida 20th and Auburn 21st.

In college basketball, Arkansas has 6 final four appearances to Florida's 5 and 29 NCAAT appearances to Florida's 19.  Arkansas has won 22 conference titles to Florida's 7.  Arkansas has won 64% of it's games all-time, which places it 19th on the current list of best winning percentages, while I'm not sure if Florida has even won more then it's lost, because it's not even among the top-50.  Florida is certainly the better team at the moment, and probably has a brighter future, but Arkansas still owns them all-time.

And yea, all schools have some good players, but I'm not sure if any other school has been a bigger victim of cheating in college football then Arkansas has.  Sadly, many of the assailants have come from within.

[redeye]

As others have said, the NCAA is comprised of the member schools. The schools are the NCAA's boss, not the other way around. So if they really, truly wanted to end the cheating they could vote to give the NCAA some teeth.

Yea, that's why I would have said the same thing a few years ago, because I fully understand that.  But why would someone like Rick Shaeffer say he thinks it'll happen soon?  It's people like him saying it that make me think otherwise.

[redeye]

Who said I was an Auburn fan? Most everything on te newton case is up for debate sure because we just don't know but for someone to say things like "uh I remember when Cecil told MSU that Auburn is offering this amount" is a little asinine and comes off very uneducated.  Just grinds my gears that so many Arkansas fans non alums have such an obsession with Auburn.  Like they want to secretly be Auburn.

Why would this bother an Arkansas fan?

And how can you say that Arkansas wants to be Auburn, when Auburn keeps hiring the Arkansas coaching pool?  If anything, I think you have it reversed.

[urkillnmesmalls]

The easiest targets are the victims, the players. Make every scholarship athlete submit a FAFSA (financial aid) form every year. Require them to report gifts valued above $100 from the moment they sign a LOI. Require them to declare assets they will possess in college valued at more than $100 (car, computer, etc).

Then, you can pay them a stipend based on a sliding scale of need. But, it allows you to track things like cars, jewelry, etc. May even need to have a scholarship player "audit" every year, a much-ballyhooed moment like the reporting back to campus for the start of what usd to be 2-a-days.

That would be like requiring marijuana testing to keep a job at McDonalds.  You'd roll up to get your Quarter Pounder, and the place would be a ghost town. 

It'd be reporting day, and there wouldn't be any players.  They'd be at home talking about ways to hide tattoos.   

[LZH]

Did Newton get 6 figures from a Booster?  Hell no.  What booster would pay for an unknown commodity.  No one thought he would be as dominant as he was in 2010.

Teams just don't pay that much for a player.  Free car? Sure , free suits?  Sure
Momma a house? Sure but not 200,000 grand. 

[urkillnmesmalls]

People speculate about things on talk radio without any solid evidence all the time.

Next you're going to tell us that Pro wrestling is fake.   

I think it was Wednesday or so that Gentle Ben was talking to Randy about how he takes medicine for being forgetful.  I was thinking..."You have no idea how un-shocked I am to hear that." 

[grayhawg]

That's just some joke made up by Bama fans on a message board.  His father's church has zero remodeling done.  In fact they couldn't afford to fix 50,000 wort of repairs to bring it to code so it got shut down.  Only 5,000-7,000 worth of repairs were repaired.  Odd that the church didn't stay open with all the fake money floating around. 

Did Newton get handshakes from rogue boosters?  Probably
Did Newton get 6 figures from a Booster?  Hell no.  What booster would pay for an unknown commodity.  No one thought he would be as dominant as he was in 2010.

Teams just don't pay that much for a player.  Free car? Sure , free suits?  Sure
Momma a house? Sure but not 200,000 grand. 

LOL    so he turned down $180,000 to play for the coach of his choice and went to Auburn for less?

[urkillnmesmalls]

LOL    so he turned down $180,000 to play for the coach of his choice and went to Auburn for less?

Give it a few years, and when Auburn takes a downturn, one of the boosters that was involved will get cross ways with another one and you'll have a clash of egos.  Or...maybe one of them falls on hard time.  Some participant will get disenchanted and spill the beans about everything that went on.  He'll brag about how they got the money together, paid for Cam, and it worked like a charm because they won the NC.  He'll claim it was a great return on their investment, and it was worth every penny.  But alas, now he knows it was wrong.  As he simultanously releases his tell all book, and makes the talk show tour. 

I SO WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.  I think about how glorious it would be at least twice a year.  I want to see that empire crumble more than any other. 

[Oklahawg]

I was told this story by a school administrator/ex-coach a few years back. Take it FWIW:

KeJuan Jones was a promising FB who lived in the Tulsa Hale HS district. Hale (then and since) was awful in football. A Jenks HS booster figured out where his Mom worked (I was told it was Woodland Hills Mall, but who knows). He frequented her place of work, never buying anything but always leaving a business card paper-clipped to a $20 bill, saying, "this is for you and your family."

She at first thought they were religious kooks or some sort of salesperson. Eventually, she called.

The booster said, point blank, that he could help get KeJuan a college scholarship if she would be willing to let him help. She thought that would be great. The next time he visited he handed her a manilla envelope containing a signed (!) contract for a storage shed in Jenks, a key, paperwork for a PO box at the Jenks post office for her to fill out, and a ziplock baggie with $500 in it.

The storage shed served two purposes. First, it was a low-traffic drop spot. The booster or his proxy would stop by and put in the shed "perks". New furniture. TV. Clothing for Mom and the other kids, not just KeJuan. Second, it served as the Mom's "permanent" address. She moved out of her rent house (in her name) and lived in a rental (still in Tulsa) provided by the booster. But, she paid rent on the storage shed. That was the "property" on record.

The booster would visit and hand over an envelop with an itinerary to a football camp (at OU, not surprisingly) with the exact amount of cash needed to pay fees, meals etc. Mom and Son drove a series of "rent-a-wrecks", cars bought used on 11th street for cash to be driven until they quit running. Then, buy another. Mom and Son never had to pay more than a $20 bill or two. The rest? Magically taken care of via "trade in".

Jones flourished his two years at Jenks and was a star at OU as well. His housing arrangement leaked out after his senior season (before signing with OU) but was somehow swept under the carpet by OSSAA and Jenks officials. At that time, the arrangement (one public record of residency, connected to a PO Box and bills - the shed had electricity run to it for a fridge that would be filled with steaks, seafood, etc) was enough to pass muster. As a result of this rather over-the-top example OSSAA introduced new rules.

The Jenks booster never gave a dime to Jenks schools. Never bought season tickets. Similarly, as a "booster" of OU football he never gave a dime to the university or it's athletic program and wasn't a season ticket holder. The trail connecting him to OU was tough to discern, but Jones always had a summer "job" and flash money while at OU.

This type of story still happens around here, and likely in most metro areas with great football in the suburbs. Now, Jones' Mom would actually have that rental house in Jenks' district. It is that easy.

[Oklahawg]

Btw, Auburn's LAST athletic probation resulted in a censor from one of the academic consortium's they participate in (not the AACU or Carnegie Foundation, but similar; this one is required if you wish to be a school in the SEC). The memo was crisp and simple: your membership will be revoked if you go on sports probation again. Period.

That is a standing principle, I've been told. Might want someone more familiar to chime in.

Apparently, the academic types are not on speaking terms with the boys in the athletic department.

[redeye]

People speculate about things on talk radio without any solid evidence all the time.

Yea they do, and I'm sure you'd know better then I would, but Rick Schaeffer isn't just anyone.  No offense, but if you had written that, then I wouldn't have given it a second thought, but Schaeffer is our former SID, so I'd have to think he knows a little of what he's talking about.

But as I said, you'd know better then I would, so I'll take your word for it.

[redeye]

I just don't think anybody is in position to know if enough schools are ready to jettison the NCAA at this point. Plus, I think those who might be trying to orchestrate a coup would know the surest way to stop it would be to talk about it.

I guess time will tell. Part of me hopes he's right. Of course, who is to say a new governing body would be any better than the current one. The old devil you know versus the one you don't, right?

Thanks for clarifying that a little.  That makes a lot of sense.

I have to agree that getting rid of the NCAA is a scary idea, because what would be the purpose?

[GlassofSwine]

Thanks for clarifying that a little.  That makes a lot of sense.

I have to agree that getting rid of the NCAA is a scary idea, because what would be the purpose?

I don't think the NCAA is going anywhere, anytime soon. The only reason to get rid of the NCAA would be if they were levying heavy sanctions on one conference's schools or for monetary reasons.
    The SEC without the NCAA could have a nice football league for a little awhile but then the issue would probably arise of not being able to  play other schools in NCAA sanctioned events and that would eventually hurt monetarily.
    One reason I think the NCAA turns a blind eye to the majority of cheating is the penalties they would have to level would be crippling financially to most institutions if they were to enforce the rulebook as it exists today. There are too many people making a ton of money for the NCAA to seriously level sanctions. Since the NCAA is simply made up of the member institutions, these institutions are not going basically allow self imposed sanctions that stop the influx of money in their pockets.
    My expectation is that the NCAA rulebook will be in for an overhaul in the near future and some of the things that are prohibited today for athletes within amateurism rules will be allowed in the near future.

[root_hawg]

Anyone ever thought of how Malik Monk family just picked up and moved close to the University, got a place to stay and a new job.  Now isn't NW Arkansas one of the most expensive places to live in Arkansas....and Malik is a top 5 recruit...makes you go hmmmm and oh yeah big brother is an advisor for the lil bro but is also employed by the basketball team as well...hmmm

[root_hawg]

Anyone wonder where lil Monk will be playing his college basketball....

[mckinneyhog5]

Anyone ever thought of how Malik Monk family just picked up and moved close to the University, got a place to stay and a new job.  Now isn't NW Arkansas one of the most expensive places to live in Arkansas....and Malik is a top 5 recruit...makes you go hmmmm and oh yeah big brother is an advisor for the lil bro but is also employed by the basketball team as well...hmmm

And Auburn just hired this High School coach and just happens to be recruiting his son at OB.

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2014/02/bobby_bentley_hired_as_auburns.html

[JansterZ71]

And Auburn just hired this High School coach and just happens to be recruiting his son at OB.

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2014/02/bobby_bentley_hired_as_auburns.html

That's just being smart.  Not cheating at all.  Kinda like Nutt hiring Malzahn to get the Springdale 5

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I just don't think anybody is in position to know if enough schools are ready to jettison the NCAA at this point. Plus, I think those who might be trying to orchestrate a coup would know the surest way to stop it would be to talk about it.

I guess time will tell. Part of me hopes he's right. Of course, who is to say a new governing body would be any better than the current one. The old devil you know versus the one you don't, right?

We might have a better idea about this today had the old CFA (College Football Association) been more of a governing body than just an association that helped its member teams negotiate better televison deals. Unfortunately, that ship sailed long ago.

[OldCoot]

I was told this story by a school administrator/ex-coach a few years back. Take it FWIW:

KeJuan Jones was a promising FB who lived in the Tulsa Hale HS district. Hale (then and since) was awful in football. A Jenks HS booster figured out where his Mom worked (I was told it was Woodland Hills Mall, but who knows). He frequented her place of work, never buying anything but always leaving a business card paper-clipped to a $20 bill, saying, "this is for you and your family."

She at first thought they were religious kooks or some sort of salesperson. Eventually, she called.

The booster said, point blank, that he could help get KeJuan a college scholarship if she would be willing to let him help. She thought that would be great. The next time he visited he handed her a manilla envelope containing a signed (!) contract for a storage shed in Jenks, a key, paperwork for a PO box at the Jenks post office for her to fill out, and a ziplock baggie with $500 in it.

The storage shed served two purposes. First, it was a low-traffic drop spot. The booster or his proxy would stop by and put in the shed "perks". New furniture. TV. Clothing for Mom and the other kids, not just KeJuan. Second, it served as the Mom's "permanent" address. She moved out of her rent house (in her name) and lived in a rental (still in Tulsa) provided by the booster. But, she paid rent on the storage shed. That was the "property" on record.

The booster would visit and hand over an envelop with an itinerary to a football camp (at OU, not surprisingly) with the exact amount of cash needed to pay fees, meals etc. Mom and Son drove a series of "rent-a-wrecks", cars bought used on 11th street for cash to be driven until they quit running. Then, buy another. Mom and Son never had to pay more than a $20 bill or two. The rest? Magically taken care of via "trade in".

Jones flourished his two years at Jenks and was a star at OU as well. His housing arrangement leaked out after his senior season (before signing with OU) but was somehow swept under the carpet by OSSAA and Jenks officials. At that time, the arrangement (one public record of residency, connected to a PO Box and bills - the shed had electricity run to it for a fridge that would be filled with steaks, seafood, etc) was enough to pass muster. As a result of this rather over-the-top example OSSAA introduced new rules.

The Jenks booster never gave a dime to Jenks schools. Never bought season tickets. Similarly, as a "booster" of OU football he never gave a dime to the university or it's athletic program and wasn't a season ticket holder. The trail connecting him to OU was tough to discern, but Jones always had a summer "job" and flash money while at OU.

This type of story still happens around here, and likely in most metro areas with great football in the suburbs. Now, Jones' Mom would actually have that rental house in Jenks' district. It is that easy.

Absolutely too many details in that not to be true.