Harry King asks what progress in our football program will look like in 2014

[WizardofhOgZ]

http:// [[[Stop spamming your site, Eric.]]] .com/columns/king-judging-ua-football-progress

[Hogwild]

Being competitive in the SEC. The Razorbacks were 22-42 in basketball from 2009-2012 and 2-14 in football the past two seasons. Basketball was 10-8 in the SEC both last year and this year but cracking .500 in football is at least two years down the road 

Atleast I know the reasons for my depression.

[WizardofhOgZ]

I think Harry poses some interesting and valid questions.

We could be significantly improved and still have a losing record with the schedule before us.  Other than the Nichols State and UAB games, there are NO "automatic wins" on our slate.  You'd like to think we should be N. Illinois, and it's true that they lost their all-everything QB.  But you don't get to the Orange Bowl without least some talent and coaching.  No football team is totally dependent on any 1 player.  And you know they'll come to town with a "nothing to lose" giant-killer attitude.

Tech on the road will be no picnic.  I've attended a game there recently and it's a much more hostile environment these days than those who haven't been there since the SWC games will remember.  Plus, the idea of a hurry up passing offense vs. our defense makes me shudder.

We were awfully close to winning a SEC game last year, but we did not.  You'd like to think we'll break through that this year, but we will be underdogs in most if not all conference games we play.

So the question remains - if we win, say, 5 games . . . will the fans start building the bonfire?  Or, will they understand that it takes 2-3 years to build your base, especially in the ultra-competitive SEC?

Harry makes an interesting comparison to Mike Anderson's progress in Basketball as well.

[razorsharptusk]

So the question remains - if we win, say, 5 games . . . will the fans start building the bonfire?  Or, will they understand that it takes 2-3 years to build your base, especially in the ultra-competitive SEC?

I personally would like to see Brett stay a couple more years after this year. This program was in shambles when he came on board.  And in my opinion, I think Brett got his eyes opened last year as to just how tough the SEC is to win in.  I really do not think he expected the outcome he got last year.  He started off the year all pepped up gleaming with positivity, a bit cocky, but quickly, you could see that as every game passed with a loss, reality was setting in.  This is not the Big10.   Hence the new defensive coaches and changes on the defense after year one.

But I can realistically see that if the Hogs do not at least go bowling this year, next year he could be on the hot seat watch.  Coaches are not given to long to turn sinking ships around these days.  I think you have to take into consideration where the program was when he got here, and see if it is going forward or backward.  The dominant factor is W's and L's and bowling.  That is the reality of being a D1 college football coach, especially in the SEC.  What have you done for me lately.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I personally would like to see Brett stay a couple more years after this year. This program was in shambles when he came on board.  And in my opinion, I think Brett got his eyes opened last year as to just how tough the SEC is to win in.  I really do not think he expected the outcome he got last year.  He started off the year all pepped up gleaming with positivity, a bit cocky, but quickly, you could see that as every game passed with a loss, reality was setting in.  This is not the Big10.   Hence the new defensive coaches and changes on the defense after year one.

But I can realistically see that if the Hogs do not at least go bowling this year, next year he could be on the hot seat watch.  Coaches are not given to long to turn sinking ships around these days.  I think you have to take into consideration where the program was when he got here, and see if it is going forward or backward.  The dominant factor is W's and L's and bowling.  That is the reality of being a D1 college football coach, especially in the SEC.  What have you done for me lately.

I agree with this. And you know, if we came out and only won 5 games this year but played everybody tough right down to the wire, including Alabama, Auburn, A&M, Georgia and LSU and we lost big games by only 7 points or less, in the absence of glaring mistakes, I would say that is progress and improvement. In other words, solid competitive play. I wouldn't be happy about only winning 5 games, but I think I could rationally see improvement.

No doubt Bielema would still find himself on the hotseat headed into year three and those who have been his detractors from day one would flame on about how they were right. But even a season like I mentioned above would indicate that we are on the right road to success.

[Dominicanhog]

He needs to win 5 and be more competitive... that's improvemnt.


That said turnarounds do happen and depending on injuries some teams move up while others are moving down... IMO, we're fighting for a bowl late in the season.

[McKdaddy]

He needs to win 5 and be more competitive... that's improvemnt.

I fully expect fair improvement and 5 wins in '14. I hope to see enough improvement in '14 so that year 3 isn't as hot a seat for the BB and the staff.

[Sivad]

Not a bad HK scribble.
Awful tough SEC football road ahead but CBB is making progress..

[Ironhawg]

If they go 0-fer in conference again this year that would not be a good sign for me.

[PORKULATOR]

Harry King is the kinda person that jumps off the wagon first. Negative Nelly squared. Can't stand is pessimism in type or when he does radio. 

[RedSkiesAtNightHog]

I think Harry poses some interesting and valid questions.

We could be significantly improved and still have a losing record with the schedule before us.  Other than the Nichols State and UAB games, there are NO "automatic wins" on our slate.  You'd like to think we should be N. Illinois, and it's true that they lost their all-everything QB.  But you don't get to the Orange Bowl without least some talent and coaching.  No football team is totally dependent on any 1 player.  And you know they'll come to town with a "nothing to lose" giant-killer attitude.

Tech on the road will be no picnic.  I've attended a game there recently and it's a much more hostile environment these days than those who haven't been there since the SWC games will remember.  Plus, the idea of a hurry up passing offense vs. our defense makes me shudder.

We were awfully close to winning a SEC game last year, but we did not.  You'd like to think we'll break through that this year, but we will be underdogs in most if not all conference games we play.

So the question remains - if we win, say, 5 games . . . will the fans start building the bonfire?  Or, will they understand that it takes 2-3 years to build your base, especially in the ultra-competitive SEC?

Harry makes an interesting comparison to Mike Anderson's progress in Basketball as well.

Texas Tech is the key game of the season in 2014.  If Arkansas wins that game, I predict they go to a Bowl.  If they don't, in all probability it is a 1-2 start with lots of moaning and groaning.  I personally think the Texas Tech game is VERY winnable.  They lost a lot on defense. 

[forrest city joe]

What Harry needs to do is leave basketball out of this. it's clear the basketball program is getting better each year. he needs to let the football program stand on it's own. i think given enough time coach B will fix the program. in the mean time we don't need any excuses for losing. the sec is always going to be full of strong programs. and we are going to have to get good enough to beat them. so crying about how hard it is won't change a thing.coach B is going to need time. but make no mistake about it. the name of the game is winning.

[Big Papa Satan]

Harry King is the kinda person that jumps off the wagon first. Negative Nelly squared. Can't stand is pessimism in type or when he does radio. 

Nonetheless, Harry definitely loved him some Nutt.

[Breems]

This looks like another season of shielding your eyes during the games and grasping for signs of improvement in the numbers. I doubt our record is any better than last year, especially with that monstrous schedule. I can't see *too* much improvement on the way while dealing with the same QB situation.

[forrest city joe]

Nonetheless, Harry definitely loved him some Nutt.

Yep. he was one of the media people pissed at fans for wanting to get Nutt out of here.

[hawgbawb]

6 wins is my definition of success.  That is a realistic goal, IMO.

[JONAS]

6 wins is my definition of success.  That is a realistic goal, IMO.

This is doable.  We were 3 plays from 6-6 last year.  In order to get to 6-6, we need to win all of the nonconference games.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

6 wins is my definition of success.  That is a realistic goal, IMO.

Yeah, 6 regular season wins would be a great result for us.  2015 should be the breakout year...8, maybe 9 wins.

[seasonhog]

Yeah, 6 regular season wins would be a great result for us.  2015 should be the breakout year...8, maybe 9 wins.

What happen to our 8 wins this season?......

[Bubba's Bruisers]

What happen to our 8 wins this season?......

You tell me.

[seasonhog]

http:// [[[Stop spamming your site, Eric.]]] .com/columns/king-judging-ua-football-progress

If Robert Shields had posted this article....what would be the reaction.........

[Dominicanhog]

If Robert Shields had posted this article....what would be the reaction.........

Duh... who is Robert Sheilds?  ... what do you think would be the reaction.

[Calling All Hogs]

I assume when HK said ".500 in football is at least two years down the road" he meant in SEC play, not overall record.   

[PygmalionEffect]

Just can't absorb another 111 to zip.

Fans won't tolerate that. Like Harry pointed out, we just need to be more competitive this year. Scoreboard can look a hell of a lot better with the win-loss record not improving much.

[goodguytex]

I see strides and changes being made in the offseason that give me some hope for this year. I think Bielema grossly underestimated how different everything would be in the SEc. He should have had his coaching staff watching plenty of game tape from 2012 so he would have an idea as to how much faster, more developed every team is compared to the BIG... How good every SEC team is top to bottom compared to the SEC.

If Bielema had the unwillingness to change things and correct weaknesses, he wouldn't have made the changes he did on the defensive side of the ball in coaching. We wouldn't be seeing the changes made in the recruiting effort either with these two new moves made. There seems to be a concerted effort to focus on the states of Texas and Louisiana in recruiting. Which I think is good for the future of the program.

We see on defense a change in some things too that could make a difference in some games this year. I expect to see a great deal of improvement. Will that result in more wins? Yeah I think it will. Will we go bowling? I expect six. But if we fall short of that, if the qb play shows fewer mistakes, more efficiency, consistent play.... If we see the receiver play pick up, more involvement, with the change on defense creating some turnovers, and we are able to actually shut some offenses down... No reason to believe we won't see a much different team, for the better.

[Hogwild]

Yep. he was one of the media people pissed at fans for wanting to get Nutt out of here.


Nonetheless, Harry definitely loved him some Nutt.

Glory Days for him, he is predicting two more losing seasons.  That would make 5 losing seasons since Nutt left.

[hogcard1964]

8 wins. That's the bar.

[3kgthog]

8 wins. That's the bar.

He'll barely have that in two years here. That's way too high for BB in this conference.

[Fatty McGee]

8 wins. That's the bar.

That's interesting. Which team are you supporting this year?

[hogcard1964]

That's interesting. Which team are you supporting this year?

Only one.

[LZH]

This looks like another season of shielding your eyes during the games and grasping for signs of improvement in the numbers. I doubt our record is any better than last year, especially with that monstrous schedule. I can't see *too* much improvement on the way while dealing with the same QB situation.

We could go 3-9 again and you'd still have hundreds of guys on here who'd swear that the 2014 team improved by leaps and bounds over the 2013 team.

[ChitownHawg]

We could go 3-9 again and you'd still have hundreds of guys on here who'd swear that the 2014 team improved by leaps and bounds over the 2013 team.

When you are this far down moral victories is all you got! 

[Harley_Hawg]

We could go 3-9 again and you'd still have hundreds of guys on here who'd swear that the 2014 team improved by leaps and bounds over the 2013 team.

We could go 9-3 and you'd still have hundreds of guys on here who'd swear 3 yards and a cloud of dust will not work here because we cant our Bama , Bama.

[LZH]

When you are this far down moral victories is all you got! 

Ain't that the truth.....

We could go 9-3 and you'd still have hundreds who would swear 3 yards and a cloud of dust will not work here because we cant our Bama , Bama.

And I wouldn't be one of them.  This offense can absolutely win here.  It's the head coach himself that I have my doubts about.

[goodguytex]

When you are this far down moral victories is all you got! 

I'm just not prepared to concede another season like the last two. We were really very close to six wins last season.... And we would have won six, had it not been for key injuries, key mistakes made on offense and defense. I think steps have been taken during the off season to correct many of the things that kept us from winning six games. Will they be effective enough with who we have, and their development at this point? I don't know. But I expect six wins.

[ChitownHawg]

I'm just not prepared to concede another season like the last two. We were really very close to six wins last season.... And we would have won six, had it not been for key injuries, key mistakes made on offense and defense. I think steps have been taken during the off season to correct many of the things that kept us from winning six games. Will they be effective enough with who we have, and their development at this point? I don't know. But I expect six wins.

I'm just having a little fun with Led. I think we can go bowling this year. It might be a low level bowl like the Charmin Bowl in Podunk, Iowa but it will be a bowl.

[goodguytex]

I'm just having a little fun with Led. I think we can go bowling this year. It might be a low level bowl like the Charmin Bowl in Podunk, Iowa but it will be a bowl.

I hope we can. We were soooo close to winning three at least of our games last year that we lost... Rutgers, Misstake and lswho were all last minute losses. Texas A&m we played hard, we played a great game despite what they threw at us, and if not for Allen throwing those ints, we might win that. Auburn was close, ole miss was close. Our defense just plays moderately better and our offense shows some degree of serviceable pass game, we win six at least.

[hogcard1964]

We could go 3-9 again and you'd still have hundreds of guys on here who'd swear that the 2014 team improved by leaps and bounds over the 2013 team.

I honestly believe you're correct.

[HogFanatic]

The schedule is tougher this year than last year's.
It is a tough situation honestly. I understand both sides of this debate, nobody wants another 3-9 year, but it feasibly could happen again this year. The debate on these boards would be at a fever pitch.

Still yet, the coach still needs more time - period. The fallout of yet another coaching change so soon would be catastrophic.

Stability.

[Wants2Win]

The schedule is tougher this year than last year's.
It is a tough situation honestly. I understand both sides of this debate, nobody wants another 3-9 year, but it feasibly could happen again this year. The debate on these boards would be at a fever pitch.

Still yet, the coach still needs more time - period. The fallout of yet another coaching change so soon would be catastrophic.

Stability.

If the firing of CBP hasn't been a catastrophe- I wouldn't want to see what is.

[DoubleReedHawgCaller]

The real question is, will they people who matter keep  BB around long enough to see the fruits of his labor....

[HogFanatic]

If the firing of CBP hasn't been a catastrophe- I wouldn't want to see what is.

Hmm. Sounds like a subject for a different thread.

[Hogpkins]

If the firing of CBP hasn't been a catastrophe- I wouldn't want to see what is.

You mean if CBP had stayed home and cooked breakfast in bed for his wife instead of hopping on a motorcycle and taking curves faster than he could handle, then things might be different. Or he might've just taken the curves a bit faster on the next Sunday ride and he would have more permanent physical injuries to go along with all the permanent emotional damage he has caused you.

[MJ2]

The schedule is tougher this year than last year's.
It is a tough situation honestly. I understand both sides of this debate, nobody wants another 3-9 year, but it feasibly could happen again this year. The debate on these boards would be at a fever pitch.

Still yet, the coach still needs more time - period. The fallout of yet another coaching change so soon would be catastrophic.

Stability.

Yep.   After we go 3-9 this year (or worse), we will all be clammering for CBB to be let go, but that's gonna cost $13M and who would be willing to take on the daunting task?   Barring him doing something fireable, I think we have to live thru 3 more seasons, before ties are broken.   He's probably a good man and a good coach, but events and timing have taken their toll on the program.

[DeltaBoy]

I disagree with Harry we should have won 6 games last year and the Staff screwed the pooch letting Mitchel go.   This year we should win 6 and a bowl game for a 7 win season.  The Key is Texas Tech we win in Lubbock we are in good shape.  GA under performs 90% of the time and we should get them too.

[EastexHawg]

I think Brett got his eyes opened last year as to just how tough the SEC is to win in.

I agree, and I find this both sad and somewhat infuriating.  Another way of putting it is that we had not only an AD who failed to understand what it takes to win the SEC (can you say John L. Smith?), but also a head coach.

even a season like I mentioned above would indicate that we are on the right road to success.

I don't think winning five games and coming close in a few others would necessarily indicate we are on the "right road to success".  It could just as easily indicate we are on our way to another Danny Ford-type period of mediocrity.  He believed in building a football team the old fashioned "right way", too.  That belief is no guarantee of success.

[Cotton]

8 wins. That's the bar.

Can I have two of whatever you've been drinking?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I agree with this. And you know, if we came out and only won 5 games this year but played everybody tough right down to the wire, including Alabama, Auburn, A&M, Georgia and LSU and we lost big games by only 7 points or less, in the absence of glaring mistakes, I would say that is progress and improvement. In other words, solid competitive play. I wouldn't be happy about only winning 5 games, but I think I could rationally see improvement.

No doubt Bielema would still find himself on the hotseat headed into year three and those who have been his detractors from day one would flame on about how they were right. But even a season like I mentioned above would indicate that we are on the right road to success.

I don't think winning five games and coming close in a few others would necessarily indicate we are on the "right road to success".  It could just as easily indicate we are on our way to another Danny Ford-type period of mediocrity.  He believed in building a football team the old fashioned "right way", too.  That belief is no guarantee of success.

Here is what I was referring to from earlier in the thread.

[goodguytex]

I agree, and I find this both sad and somewhat infuriating.  Another way of putting it is that we had not only an AD who failed to understand what it takes to win the SEC (can you say John L. Smith?), but also a head coach.

I don't think winning five games and coming close in a few others would necessarily indicate we are on the "right road to success".  It could just as easily indicate we are on our way to another Danny Ford-type period of mediocrity.  He believed in building a football team the old fashioned "right way", too.  That belief is no guarantee of success.

We also won the west with Ford as hc of the Hogs. We will get some idea this year if we are on the right track or not. Repeating mistakes stubbornly will tell me something needs to give. Learning from past mistakes and correcting them shows trying to right the ship and not let ego and pride get in the way.

[EastexHawg]

We also won the west with Ford as hc of the Hogs. We will get some idea this year if we are on the right track or not. Repeating mistakes stubbornly will tell me something needs to give. Learning from past mistakes and correcting them shows trying to right the ship and not let ego and pride get in the way.

Ford was 26-30-1 in five years with three 4-7 seasons, including his last two.  To me that's not "success", no matter how low the bar may be lowered in an attempt to find a level of achievement that qualifies.