Wagner to transfer

[root_hawg]

Get a shooter!

[rzrbackramsfan]

Insert my shocked face.

Haha. 

[rzrbackramsfan]

Shane Henry come on board. 

[rzrbackramsfan]

And I should say thanks to dee, he was a good teammate it seemed like.  I hope he does well at his next school.

[avatar]

Not necessarily. This was a young team. I believe 6 of the top 8 minutes-getters are coming back and most of them were underclassmen, in addition to the two big needs (ball-handling guard and post player) having already been filled in recruiting. If the staff rushes for quantity in recruiting right now, then they'll just end up with another Wagner that transfers in two years after not getting any minutes.

the need is for some shooters ..........period

[avatar]

Get a shooter!

plural

[Nipsey Mussle]

Chase Henry come on board.

I believe it's Shane Henry.

[Atlhogfan1]

Abron
Madden
Mickelson
Young
Bell
Clarke
Qualls
Williams
Wagner
Portis
Kingsley

[High Octane Hog]

Hope D finds a fit that makes him really happy!!

[Otis]

Why do we always seem to be scrambling at the last second to find 2-3 juncos or a diamond in the rough, Dee Wagner type at the last second?

[870hogfan]

Why do we always seem to be scrambling at the last second to find 2-3 juncos or a diamond in the rough, Dee Wagner type at the last second?

Other than Dee who have we scrambled for?

[-Blu]

Other than Dee who have we scrambled for?

Nobody... it's just the cool thing to say right now.

[Beaverfever]

Gotta get Henry so we're not relying on Harris.

[immahog]

Why would you give watkins a scholarship? just give his dad a raise and bring in another player.

wait he goes to the UofA for free anyway right?

[gmarv]

just want to wish dee well he took his shot at a d1 school.
it didn,t work out and he has handle it with class,seemed to be
a good team player.hope he lands in a spot he can do well in at.

[Pork Twain]

If he has to, yes.

Wagner just sit out two. Miles just sit out one. Watkins just sit out one.

We have 13 scholarships available and will only play 9, maybe 10 guys heavily. Him sitting out doesn't hurt us as much as you think. We're unlikely to find a guy that can come in and contribute this late anyways. I say give it to a guy that can knockdown an open 3.

Sat out...  Why use a scholly just to use it?  Isn't that why we are here now?  Why not offer it to someone that will contribute or hold on to it until next year and offer it to someone with more skills?

[RazorPiggie]

Why would you give watkins a scholarship? just give his dad a raise and bring in another player.

What has his dad done to get a raise???

[RazorPiggie]

Other than Dee who have we scrambled for?

Coty Clarke. Thankfully that panned out.

[Smithian]

Maybe the Hogs are pursuing a highly rated high school senior to replace Wagner and not planning on another transfer, JUCO, or just to carry an open scholarship for the fourth straight season?

[CDBHawg]

Sat out...  Why use a scholly just to use it?  Isn't that why we are here now?  Why not offer it to someone that will contribute or hold on to it until next year and offer it to someone with more skills?

Why use a scholly just to use it?

The more scholarship players, the better.

Isn't that why we are here now?

Absolutely. Wagner's scholarship would've been better suited going to Archie Goodwin, but he wasn't coming.

Why not offer it to someone that will contribute or hold on to it until next year and offer it to someone with more skills?

Because this late in he game you are more than likely not going to find somebody who can come in and contribute. Please, tell me somebody you feel we could sign this late that could come int and contribute. If you hold on to it for a year, you might as well give it to Hannahs who will play in a year.

[Smithian]

Sat out...  Why use a scholly just to use it?  Isn't that why we are here now?  Why not offer it to someone that will contribute or hold on to it until next year and offer it to someone with more skills?

The Hogs have sat on open scholarships every season since Anderson has arrived. Isn't it reasonable to think that by season #4 that Anderson just once can find 13 scholarship players?

I think the Hogs are going to pick up that Henry kid or another guard, so the open scholarship discussion is probably moot.

[Pork Twain]

Why use a scholly just to use it?

The more scholarship players, the better.

Isn't that why we are here now?

Absolutely. Wagner's scholarship would've been better suited going to Archie Goodwin, but he wasn't coming.

Why not offer it to someone that will contribute or hold on to it until next year and offer it to someone with more skills?

Because this late in he game you are more than likely not going to find somebody who can come in and contribute. Please, tell me somebody you feel we could sign this late that could come int and contribute. If you hold on to it for a year, you might as well give it to Hannahs who will play in a year.

Carrying a guy on your roster for a year just to say you are full on scholarship players does not make sense.  Either give it to a guy that can contribute or eat it till next year.

[azhog10]

Abron
Madden
Mickelson
Young
Bell
Clarke
Qualls
Williams
Wagner
Portis
Kingsley

Is that Rotnei or Coty? So only one of Anderson's actual recruits have left. All the others were Pel recruits. Before you start saying mickelson and abron were Mike's all I heard all season was that Madden was not really CMA's recruit when he was doing well this season. So which is it?

[Pork Twain]

The Hogs have sat on open scholarships every season since Anderson has arrived. Isn't it reasonable to think that by season #4 that Anderson just once can find 13 scholarship players?

I think the Hogs are going to pick up that Henry kid or another guard, so the open scholarship discussion is probably moot.

Sure it is but I am against filling it with a player that should not be on an SEC roster, just so you can say you are full up.

[mhuff]

Good luck to him in his future

[CDBHawg]

Carrying a guy on your roster for a year just to say you are full on scholarship players does not make sense.  Either give it to a guy that can contribute or eat it till next year.

Yeah, that's not what happened. I'm sure he was offered hoping he would play. Every team has 13 to offer, only playing about 9, maybe 10. Wagner wasn't the only Wagner in NCAAM. Transfers happen every year for every team.

Still waiting on who the scholly should go to? Any suggestions on who we have a legitimate shot at that could come in and play right away?

[mhuff]

That would be surprising to me and illustrate that all isn't good on the recruiting front.

[Otis]

Other than Dee who have we scrambled for?

Let's see. 4-5 juco's this year that we've either offered or rumored to have offered. The same thing last year and the same thing the year before. Trying to find players this late in the game when 99% of the players have already signed to play. Yes, that's scrambling to find someone to contribute.

[Breems]

Let's see. 4-5 juco's this year that we've either offered or rumored to have offered. The same thing last year and the same thing the year before. Trying to find players this late in the game when 99% of the players have already signed to play. Yes, that's scrambling to find someone to contribute.

Would you rather them give up and find no one?

[HawgAdvocate]

Would you rather them give up and find no one?

It's safe to assume that he's not in favor of what's been the status quo the prior three years.

[Otis]

Would you rather them give up and find no one?

No, would rather not be scrambling and taking flyers on what happens to be left hoping to luck into something. We had the same thing going on 2 years ago when we ended up signing Wagner late. Last year we were scrambling for Jamal Jones and several others when we end up with the assistant coaches son. Now this year, there's been 4-5 names we've gone after really late in the process. Do you not seeing that as scrambling every year?

[Kevin]

nothing but the best for you, dee.

[Hawg Red]

No, would rather not be scrambling and taking flyers on what happens to be left hoping to luck into something. We had the same thing going on 2 years ago when we ended up signing Wagner late. Last year we were scrambling for Jamal Jones and several others when we end up with the assistant coaches son. Now this year, there's been 4-5 names we've gone after really late in the process. Do you not seeing that as scrambling every year?

You're misrepresenting what has happened, at least this year, a little. Yes, we did go after 4-5 JUCO guys late for this class.....but we got one. So, we didn't really miss on all of them, and there is even some thinking that the staff preferred Durham to Dickerson. You look at Durham as a scramble but there is an argument to be made for him being a target. A lot of those JUCO guys were vying for the same spot. We were really only looking to take one JUCO guard and we got one.

[Pork Twain]

Yeah, that's not what happened. I'm sure he was offered hoping he would play. Every team has 13 to offer, only playing about 9, maybe 10. Wagner wasn't the only Wagner in NCAAM. Transfers happen every year for every team.

Still waiting on who the scholly should go to? Any suggestions on who we have a legitimate shot at that could come in and play right away?

I am pretty sure my line of posting has been in response to offering DH, even though he would have to sit out a year.  If you are going to do that, you might as well hold on to it and see who else comes along.

Keep waiting...  Unlike many on here, I never clained to have the answer.  All I am saying is that I would prefer us sign a guy that can play or hold on to it till next year.  Giving DH a scholarship so that he can sit for a year and then maybe earn playing time, to me, is a bad idea.  You never know who might be interested next year and here we are again with a scholarship tied up for three years on a player that "might" earn playing time.

[Biggus Piggus]

Keep waiting...  Unlike many on here, I never clained to have the answer.  All I am saying is that I would prefer us sign a guy that can play or hold on to it till next year.

Yes. Don't make the same mistake over again.

[Otis]

You're misrepresenting what has happened, at least this year, a little. Yes, we did go after 4-5 JUCO guys late for this class.....but we got one. So, we didn't really miss on all of them, and there is even some thinking that the staff preferred Durham to Dickerson. You look at Durham as a scramble but there is an argument to be made for him being a target. A lot of those JUCO guys were vying for the same spot. We were really only looking to take one JUCO guard and we got one.

If he was a target, why wasn't he targeted til now? You'd think we would've signed him months earlier if he was a huge target for us.

[Hawg Red]

If he was a target, why wasn't he targeted til now? You'd think we would've signed him months earlier if he was a huge target for us.

A lot of JUCO guys don't sign until after or the end of JUCO season because they know that's when their value is the highest and they'll have the most opportunities to choose from. And Anderson had already signed a class of 3 prep players. It's not unreasonable to want to bring in one JUCO guy with 3 freshmen to balance out the inexperience. I don't think anyone knows how long the coaching staff had their eyes on Durham. None of us had heard of Shane Henry before Monday and he claims he's choosing between Arkansas and another school.

Also, there's no need to put words in my mouth. Never said Durham was a "huge" target.

[Atlhogfan1]

Is that Rotnei or Coty? So only one of Anderson's actual recruits have left. All the others were Pel recruits. Before you start saying mickelson and abron were Mike's all I heard all season was that Madden was not really CMA's recruit when he was doing well this season. So which is it?

Coty

Okay.  I didn't start saying anything. 

Just listing who will be left from our last 3 classes next season and observing the roster turnover.  Nothing negative.  The affects of attrition and recruiting JC players will turn the roster over quickly.  Sometimes that is needed especially when the players need to be forced to find other options like some of Pelphrey's signees when he was here as coach or perhaps a current player.  Turnover can be good too when you recruit the one or two and done types but that isn't our program right now.  Upperclassmen transfers contribute to the turnover as well.  We've had 3 of those in Gulley, Harris and Miles.  In Mike's 4th season, we will have two seniors.  Taking this program observation back through Pelphrey in regards to roster turnover, we've had 27 signees over 7 classes make it to campus for at least a season.  This doesn't include the transfers, the football players who played basketball too or Kikko.  Improvement has been made in that fewer risks have been taken than under Pel and the signees are actually making it to campus.  But we've had a lot of players in recent reasons and now look to be bringing in 5 more along with Miles and Watkins. 


I'm not aware of your issues with other posters in regards to claims that Madden is or isn't Mike's recruit.  You'll have to direct that to those posters. 

As far as what other posters have brought up, these have included opinions that Mike's defensive system takes time to teach and for the players to pick up as well as the opinion that having strong upperclassmen teams with players experienced in a program's system is better than high roster turnover with one or two and done type players(not that I necessarily agree totally with these opinions).  Just for discussion, how does our roster turnover and acquiring upperclassmen whether through transfers or JC signees fit?  Do we expect to only sign two in the next class or will we see more attrition?

[pigture perfect]

Yeah, all the kids of UA employee's get scholarships.  

I Confuse easily.

Fify.

[kingofdequeen]

to be fair, they don't get scholarships.

http://hr.uark.edu/benefits/96.aspx

50% tuition discount.

[Inhogswetrust]

That would be surprising to me and illustrate that all isn't good on the recruiting front.

Please contact the coaches and provide them with your expert recruiting analysis. I'm sure they would be grateful.

[CDBHawg]

I am pretty sure my line of posting has been in response to offering DH, even though he would have to sit out a year.  If you are going to do that, you might as well hold on to it and see who else comes along.

Keep waiting...  Unlike many on here, I never clained to have the answer.  All I am saying is that I would prefer us sign a guy that can play or hold on to it till next year.

And my point is that if we hold on to it, we are waiting a year anyway. I feel that Hannahs wouldn't be a Wagner. If you do, then I understand.

[mhuff]

Please contact the coaches and provide them with your expert recruiting analysis. I'm sure they would be grateful.

No offense but I don't know the extent of your knowledge of players the Hogs are on for the upcoming two years. However, if we extend a scholarship to Hannah after not offering him one from the start, I will no longer have any faith in CMA. That would be the last straw.

[nextlevel]

Transfers and JUCOs are being coming an ever increasing part of the recruiting game, Mizzou and Haith have lived off Transfers, Transfers and JUCOs are all Pearl and Auburn are looking towards to fill their open roster sports this year.

[Atlhogfan1]

Transfers and JUCOs are being coming an ever increasing part of the recruiting game, Mizzou and Haith have lived off Transfers, Transfers and JUCOs are all Pearl and Auburn are looking towards to fill their open roster sports this year.

Haith had to in order to avoid a big rebuild given the unbalanced roster he inherited.  Not that it was the right decision for the long term health of the program.  But knowing that coaches face immediate expectations, it is understandable especially considering the talent he received in the transfers. 

[Hawg Red]

No offense but I don't know the extent of your knowledge of players the Hogs are on for the upcoming two years. However, if we extend a scholarship to Hannah after not offering him one from the start, I will no longer have any faith in CMA. That would be the last straw.

Not sure I understand your logic here.

Texas Tech was, by far, Hannahs' best offer out of HS. However, he's now shown coaches what he can do on the D1 level, so it's a bit different. Maybe he just reinforced to some coaches what they originally thought but he likely also showed some coaches that he was better than they thought. I think he's shown that he's at least worthy of a role playing 10-15 minutes a game off the bench for a high-major program.

Coaches have more data on Hannahs now, so if the coaches did not offer him out of HS but are willing to take him on now, it's because they have seen what he can do on a D1 court and think he could contribute. Nothing wrong with that.

[nextlevel]

Haith had to in order to avoid a big rebuild given the unbalanced roster he inherited.  Not that it was the right decision for the long term health of the program.  But knowing that coaches face immediate expectations, it is understandable especially considering the talent he received in the transfers. 

Haith "didn't have too", he chose too, none of those transfers helped his first season anyway, he has continued to go after transfers which shows it is what he wants to do.

Several programs will take a transfer each year, bi-year, etc. Most do not try to build their programs off of them.

JUCOs are important to several coaches across the country to build their programs.

This is the JUCO/Transfer recruiting season, not some late game scramble...

[azhog10]

As far as what other posters have brought up, these have included opinions that Mike's defensive system takes time to teach and for the players to pick up as well as the opinion that having strong upperclassmen teams with players experienced in a program's system is better than high roster turnover with one or two and done type players(not that I necessarily agree totally with these opinions).  Just for discussion, how does our roster turnover and acquiring upperclassmen whether through transfers or JC signees fit?  Do we expect to only sign two in the next class or will we see more attrition?

I guess I understand some of those guys on the list and listing them as "turnover" however Coty was a graduating senior. You didn't put Milles, Harris or Gulley on that list. Seems odd you would throw Coty in there but not the others. I think the combination of what we have and what we are bringing in is about right. The MAJOR need is at the PG position. We bring in a freshman PG and a JUCO PG. CMA knows his system does require time to learn and IMO that would be part of his evaluation process when selecting a JUCO guard to bring in. He has to be able to learn quickly and I would assume he saw the qualities in Durham that he wanted. IF we take Henry, and we really have no idea if he is even an option this staff is pursuing, it seems to me that he has the tools to come in and help off the bench on defense. He is a strong rebounder and big time shot blocker. He won't be coming in to help provide a large number of points. So that addition, if it happens, makes a lot of sense. The other three are freshman. One big, and two guards. Sure not the blue chip type of class everyone wants, however Beard was a kid that when he committed to Mizzou early a lot of CMA bashers were going crazy about how we missed out on a big time guard from Arkansas. Then when he signs he's just "okay". Baab is a guy that a lot of people in the recruiting world are starting to drewl over due to him growing a couple inches his senior season.

We knew there would be one transfer and possibly two. Wagner was definitely a gamble, but when you have the extra scholarship you take the chance. He did what he could and took care of business in the classroom so all was not lost. If you think we have a really high turnover then you should look around the SEC and College basketball for that matter. Half the guys on your list about turnover came from the last class that Pel had signed. Wagner has been the only true CMA signee that has left. All those other guys had signed and committed pre-CMA. I am not including you in this statement, but there is a lot of people talking about how we have to get beter athletes and then when CMA loses a guy that isn't one of our better players people start throwing their hands up and complaining about turnover.

[azhog10]

No offense but I don't know the extent of your knowledge of players the Hogs are on for the upcoming two years. However, if we extend a scholarship to Hannah after not offering him one from the start, I will no longer have any faith in CMA. That would be the last straw.

From what I've heard Hannah's would have the green light to walk-on at Arkansas whenever he wants. However a scholarship hasn't been extended and there seems to be very little belief that one ever will. If one was it would be with the understanding that it would be for this year and this year only. I actually see Watkins getting the scholly before DH would.

[azhog10]

Not sure I understand your logic here.

Texas Tech was, by far, Hannahs' best offer out of HS. However, he's now shown coaches what he can do on the D1 level, so it's a bit different. Maybe he just reinforced to some coaches what they originally thought but he likely also showed some coaches that he was better than they thought. I think he's shown that he's at least worthy of a role playing 10-15 minutes a game off the bench for a high-major program.

Coaches have more data on Hannahs now, so if the coaches did not offer him out of HS but are willing to take him on now, it's because they have seen what he can do on a D1 court and think he could contribute. Nothing wrong with that.

One example would be the Curry kid. He went to a school as a freshmen and not being recruited highly. Then went to Duke, sat our and played. Finney-Smith for Florida is another example. Guys transfer due to them realizing they were better than others thought. I don't really like it, but it happens. Personally I think there has to be something going on behind close doors for all this to happen.