Wagner to transfer

[latrops]

And my point is that if we hold on to it, we are waiting a year anyway. I feel that Hannahs wouldn't be a Wagner. If you do, then I understand.

That is the crux of this entire discussion...If you expect a late signee or juco to provide little or no impact, then you want to hang on to the scholarship and use it next year.  If you are optimistic and more willing to gamble on a juco or other unsigned player, you want to use the scholarship now.  Neither approach is wrong necessarily.

[azhog10]

Haith had to in order to avoid a big rebuild given the unbalanced roster he inherited.  Not that it was the right decision for the long term health of the program.  But knowing that coaches face immediate expectations, it is understandable especially considering the talent he received in the transfers.

I just don't agree with this notion that Frank HAD to due to what he inherited. When CMA left Mizzou he had 3 fresh, 1 soph (two of his freshemn left after they saw they would get no playing time) 6 juniors (the year before he had 5 sophomores and added the Pressey as a transfer in order to get little brother Phil), and 2 seniors. So he left Haith with at least a good solid year to find talent to even out the one "large" class he was left. That Junior class would now be seniors so what Haith did was go out and get a bunch of transfers that had to sit out only to be seniors again. Haith could have spread things out but he didn't. So Haith didn't "have" to, Haith got greedy. He could have taken just one senior transfer, one JUCO and sign a solid freshmen class to even it out. We had 5 seniors this year and I don't hear anyone complaining about having such a huge class.

[nextlevel]

No one is complaining because having to replace 5+ players has been status quo since 2008.

[Atlhogfan1]

No one is complaining because having to replace 5+ players has been status quo since 2008.

I just don't agree with this notion that Frank HAD to due to what he inherited. When CMA left Mizzou he had 3 fresh, 1 soph (two of his freshemn left after they saw they would get no playing time) 6 juniors (the year before he had 5 sophomores and added the Pressey as a transfer in order to get little brother Phil), and 2 seniors. So he left Haith with at least a good solid year to find talent to even out the one "large" class he was left. That Junior class would now be seniors so what Haith did was go out and get a bunch of transfers that had to sit out only to be seniors again. Haith could have spread things out but he didn't. So Haith didn't "have" to, Haith got greedy. He could have taken just one senior transfer, one JUCO and sign a solid freshmen class to even it out. We had 5 seniors this year and I don't hear anyone complaining about having such a huge class.

Perhaps we should discuss it (not suggesting complain).  In two seasons, we are setup to have a senior class of Bell, Qualls, Williams, Miles and Durham if no more JC signees this class.  Probably also need to factor in the chance Portis may not play more than two more.  Last year's class was 2 signees, this one 4 or maybe 5, next is setup for 2, then 5-6.  Again, not suggesting turnover is always a bad thing.  It depends on how the spots are filled - immediate impact difference makers or role players some of whom only fill their role well for 1 or 2 seasons - Clarke.  Coty played his role well and was a leader if not the team leader.  But we only got two seasons out of him and one NIT win to show for his time.  Now the staff has apparently been trying to find someone to replace him for two seasons.  Within 3 seasons, this one 13-14 and the next two, we will see the need to replace 12-13 players. 

Haith chose to avoid the rebuild.  Not defending him or suggesting he made the right decision.  But the unbalanced classes left him in that situation.  Pel had a similar situation setup by Heath and failed miserably in taking risks to try and rebuild quicker than he should.

[nextlevel]

Haith didn't avoid a rebuild, if his decline continues, he will not be around for the actual rebuild.

Anderson is in a different position, he has to have the ability to have open spots for the well above average in-state recruiting classes coming in 2015 and 2016, hence the willingness to take JUCOs in this class.

[Atlhogfan1]

Haith didn't avoid a rebuild, if his decline continues, he will not be around for the actual rebuild.

Anderson is in a different position, he has to have the ability to have open spots for the well above average in-state recruiting classes coming in 2015 and 2016, hence the willingness to take JUCOs in this class.

He did in the sense he acquired enought talent to continue winning.  His ability to coach the talent is another discussion.  He won't be around if he can't maximize what he gets.

Yes Mike is in a different position as he may have set up a situation for the 3rd time in 5 seasons he put a program in a position to replace 5 or more departing players.  Is this next situation a plan to have a number of scholarships for the Monk class?  Is the next class two SGs in Allen and McClure even though this would get the team smaller?  Or do we see more players leave or forced out to make room for a bigger 2015 class? 

[nextlevel]

Of the 5 departing players, how many are also departing with their degrees?

Isn't Harris also suppose to earn his degree this May?

The program needed players to fix the APR situation just as they needed players who could play the game... If CMA brought in guys who will get the APR to the point where he can encourage guys to leave, not renew scholarships, etc to make the talent level get and remain where it needs to be then the guys he brought the past two-three classes will do just as much off the court as on the court for the long term health of the program.

[mhuff]

From what I've heard Hannah's would have the green light to walk-on at Arkansas whenever he wants. However a scholarship hasn't been extended and there seems to be very little belief that one ever will. If one was it would be with the understanding that it would be for this year and this year only. I actually see Watkins getting the scholly before DH would.

Azhog, I don't see either one of them getting a scollie. Nothing against the young men, but Watkins is a coach's son..... doesn't need it.... and Hannah is not as good as the other recruits..... Too few scollies.

[mhuff]

Not sure I understand your logic here.

Texas Tech was, by far, Hannahs' best offer out of HS. However, he's now shown coaches what he can do on the D1 level, so it's a bit different. Maybe he just reinforced to some coaches what they originally thought but he likely also showed some coaches that he was better than they thought. I think he's shown that he's at least worthy of a role playing 10-15 minutes a game off the bench for a high-major program.

Coaches have more data on Hannahs now, so if the coaches did not offer him out of HS but are willing to take him on now, it's because they have seen what he can do on a D1 court and think he could contribute. Nothing wrong with that.

Hawg Red, with all due respect, I don't think you spend a scollie when we need much better players. Welcome as a walkon, but he would really sit the bench.

[nextlevel]

Azhog, I don't see either one of them getting a scollie. Nothing against the young men, but Watkins is a coach's son..... doesn't need it.... and Hannah is not as good as the other recruits..... Too few scollies.

The football team is using two scholarships on a coach's son(s) that could be better spend on additional LBers and DBs.

No one is saying they should have their schollys yanked and their parent's foot the bill, no one complained about them being offered the scholarship initially.

If a player is worthy of a scholarship and earns a scholarship who his or her parent's are should not be a factor in if they are awarded a scholarship.

[Hawg Red]

Hawg Red, with all due respect, I don't think you spend a scollie when we need much better players. Welcome as a walkon, but he would really sit the bench.

If we don't land Shane Henry, I see no reason why not to extend a scholarship offer. It's not going to cost us anyone. Hell, we've been "saving scholarships" for a few years in a row now and have nothing of note to show for it. We're losing at least 2 guys next season (Madden and Harris) and possibly a 3rd and 4th (Portis and Qualls). We don't know if guys like Beard and Babb are really much better than Hannahs. Truth is, after the elite prospects (like Portis), it's really hard to say. We're not likely to haul in several 5 or high 4 star recruits for the 2015 class. We know what Dusty can do at the D1 level in a conference at least comparable to and likely a little better than the SEC.

I'm not sure Anthlon Bell is any better than Dusty Hannahs and he sure gets minutes.

[nextlevel]

We already have a 3 point specialist on scholarship, the current one is better at the other aspects of the game, especially the one valued by the staff, Defense than Hannahs.

If He wasn't from LR no one would want or care if he came...

[Hawg Red]

We already have a 3 point specialist on scholarship, the current one is better at the other aspects of the game, especially the one valued by the staff, Defense than Hannahs.

If He wasn't from LR no one would want or care if he came...

What else is he better at? Passing? Rebounding? Is he really markedly better at defense? Bell seems to be one of our more shaky defenders, to be honest, and I don't see him displaying skill in any other areas outside of shooting jumpers.

And is Bell really even a 3 point specialist? 33% doesn't seem so special.

You are correct about one thing, though -- if he weren't from LR, we wouldn't know or care about him. But he is, so that's a moot point. There are a lot of guys out there that could help us that we don't know about because they aren't from Arkansas. I look at Hannahs as filling more a Kikko-type role. No one's predicting the next Pat Bradley here.

[nextlevel]

Hannahs has the ability to fulfill the "Kikko role", he is rumored to be welcome to walk-on.

The "Kikko role" isn't a scholarship worthy role.

Hannahs is not a better defender, if you think Bell looks "shaky" on this team, you will be horrified to see what the opposition does to Hannahs...

[CDBHawg]

The football team is using two scholarships on a coach's son(s) that could be better spend on additional LBers and DBs.

No one is saying they should have their schollys yanked and their parent's foot the bill, no one complained about them being offered the scholarship initially.

If a player is worthy of a scholarship and earns a scholarship who his or her parent's are should not be a factor in if they are awarded a scholarship.

Different set of rules. They'd still count against the 85 if they received and financial assistance.

[Hawg Red]

Hannahs has the ability to fulfill the "Kikko role", he is rumored to be welcome to walk-on.

The "Kikko role" isn't a scholarship worthy role.

Hannahs is not a better defender, if you think Bell looks "shaky" on this team, you will be horrified to see what the opposition does to Hannahs...

Kikko was playing more than 2 scholarship players, so I think that statement is somewhat false.

I mean, right?

[azhog10]

Haith chose to avoid the rebuild.  Not defending him or suggesting he made the right decision.  But the unbalanced classes left him in that situation.  Pel had a similar situation setup by Heath and failed miserably in taking risks to try and rebuild quicker than he should.

Haith made his bed. The turnover at question as I said is no different than any other college basketball team in the counrty. You are going to see turnover like this no matter where you look. It happens at all levels of college basketball. CMA will almost alway have one, or two JUCO signees in almost every class. I don't think we will have transfers every year like we have, but those are more case by case basis as they happen. I don't think CMA goes out and looks for those. If he has room and sees the need, then he will do it. But outside of that, the turnover that CMA has had is really only 1, Wagner. Mickelson and Abron were two seperate situations, but neither were really CMA's recruit. Young and Powell leaving early are going to happen and it's not easy to plan those out. Young I am sure CMA had a good idea on, but Powell was a toss up going in to the season. I hope Portis and CMA have a good conversation about where Portis sees himself over the next few years so Mike can plan accordinly. No matter what tho, CMA has to live with whatever he brings in. He is keeping our APR up no matter the turnover and IMO that's the biggest concern when you talk turnover. If we were adding guys worse than the ones we are losing then I'd be worried. But we aren't.

[nextlevel]

Kikko was playing more than 2 scholarship players, so I think that statement is somewhat false.

I mean, right?

Cox was a walk on and started games before Kikko, is there a point?

Hannahs sitting out next year on scholarship does absolutely nothing for the team, him remaining on said scholarship can directly hinder efforts going forward, hence his opportunity to walk-on.

[nextlevel]

Different set of rules. They'd still count against the 85 if they received and financial assistance.

Their dad scratching checks to pay for the entire school costs counts against the 85?

No it would not.

[-Blu]

If we don't land Shane Henry, I see no reason why not to extend a scholarship offer. It's not going to cost us anyone. Hell, we've been "saving scholarships" for a few years in a row now and have nothing of note to show for it. We're losing at least 2 guys next season (Madden and Harris) and possibly a 3rd and 4th (Portis and Qualls). We don't know if guys like Beard and Babb are really much better than Hannahs. Truth is, after the elite prospects (like Portis), it's really hard to say. We're not likely to haul in several 5 or high 4 star recruits for the 2015 class. We know what Dusty can do at the D1 level in a conference at least comparable to and likely a little better than the SEC.

I'm not sure Anthlon Bell is any better than Dusty Hannahs and he sure gets minutes.

I'm curious to what the staff is going to do with that last scholarship, and I really hope it's not what some people are saying and giving it to Watkins.  I'm not trying to bash, he could be doing really good at practice, but I mean let's be honest his dad is on the staff so he gets a nice discount, and he makes a lot of money, doesn't make sense IMO to give the 13th player off the bench a scholarship in that situation.  Now if he was a top 10 player on the team you go for it. 

Myself I'm torn between Henry and Hannahs getting that last scholarship.  All the "insiders" are saying Williams is staying so, we really don't need another Forward this year, but let's say Portis and Qualls leaves after next year, along with Harris. It would be nice to have another guy that's a senior Forward ready to step up and compete for starters minutes.  I'm not sold on Williams and we still haven't seen what Thompson and Miles can do yet.  And as far as Hannahs, I like the idea of getting another shooter and adding him to the team, but from everything I'm hearing, they are wanting him to walk on, so that may not be an option.  But, I definitely would rather than take 1 of these guys, rather than holding that scholarship hoping for 2015.  We need to win now, and get players to help us do that, and worry about the 2015 class in 2015.

[Porked Tongue]

Fify.

He was incorrect.  Simply as that.

[Porked Tongue]

to be fair, they don't get scholarships.

http://hr.uark.edu/benefits/96.aspx

50% tuition discount.

Which is correct but only covers tuition.

[Hawg Red]

Cox was a walk on and started games before Kikko, is there a point?

Hannahs sitting out next year on scholarship does absolutely nothing for the team, him remaining on said scholarship can directly hinder efforts going forward, hence his opportunity to walk-on.

The point is that, unlike Cox, Kikko was actually a contributor. Cox was obviously told not to shoot. I'm not even sure why he was out there, but it was Pelphrey, so there you go. But receiving a spot in the rotation ahead of scholarship players, Kikko really became a defacto scholarship player in role and standing on the team. Stephen Cox never averaged over 5 minutes per game. He played 118 minutes as senior to Kikko's 417 minutes his senior year. An outsider would think Kikko was a scholarship player and his role on the team is what that is usually occupied by a scholarship player. That's my point.

[nextlevel]

This roster could absolutely use another forward like Henry or Atwood over another guard.

The combinations and match up problems that could be created due to the versatility of Qualls/Harris/Williams/Henry/Atwood/Portis being able to play multiple positions would be an excellent problem to have.

The ability to have Henry and/or Kingsley on the court (separate or at the same time) would be a great benefit in the press for their ability to protect the rim.

Qualls can play from the 2-4 in traditional numbering of the position
Madden 1-3
Beard 1-2
Babb 1-3
Durahm 1-2
Portis 4-5
Henry 3-4
Harris 3-4
Miles 3-4
Williams 3-4
Kingsley 5
Bell 2-3
Thompson 4-5.

The versatility of the players would allow to play "big" or "small" against teams whose defense are able to dictate the pace and style of play of the game. The athleticism of the players above fit the press great, Hannahs' doesn't fit in with the traits of the above roster.

[Hawg Red]

I'm curious to what the staff is going to do with that last scholarship, and I really hope it's not what some people are saying and giving it to Watkins.  I'm not trying to bash, he could be doing really good at practice, but I mean let's be honest his dad is on the staff so he gets a nice discount, and he makes a lot of money, doesn't make sense IMO to give the 13th player off the bench a scholarship in that situation.  Now if he was a top 10 player on the team you go for it. 

Myself I'm torn between Henry and Hannahs getting that last scholarship.  All the "insiders" are saying Williams is staying so, we really don't need another Forward this year, but let's say Portis and Qualls leaves after next year, along with Harris. It would be nice to have another guy that's a senior Forward ready to step up and compete for starters minutes.  I'm not sold on Williams and we still haven't seen what Thompson and Miles can do yet.  And as far as Hannahs, I like the idea of getting another shooter and adding him to the team, but from everything I'm hearing, they are wanting him to walk on, so that may not be an option.  But, I definitely would rather than take 1 of these guys, rather than holding that scholarship hoping for 2015.  We need to win now, and get players to help us do that, and worry about the 2015 class in 2015.

I want to say I'd rather have Henry, but I didn't know who he was before Monday. If he's for real, obviously I'd rather have him. If he's not an option, I think we go with Hannahs. I am not in favor of sitting on the scholarship because that always ends up being pointless.

[Porked Tongue]

The scholarship for Watkins would be to tell him he earned it and that you want him to stay.  I'm not into the who his daddy is as being the be all end all for his future.  It's about whether they think he deserves it and what message they send to him.  Being a walk-on is just not the same no matter where the money comes from to pay the tuition.  Some people will understand that and some won't. 

And just how many offers is DH sitting on?  I mean if he's so right for us then surely there are some major schools on him too.

[nextlevel]

I want to say I'd rather have Henry, but I didn't know who he was before Monday. If he's for real, obviously I'd rather have him. If he's not an option, I think we go with Hannahs. I am not in favor of sitting on the scholarship because that always ends up being pointless.

The scholarship won't be put to use until 2015 either way if it does not go to Henry/Atwood/Watkins.

[Hawg Red]

The scholarship won't be put to use until 2015 either way if it does not go to Henry/Atwood/Watkins.

Not really. Kid would still be practicing with the team and learning the system/working on conditioning and strength. If you can get a contributor, you should do it. We haven't used the entire lot of scholarships since Anderson's been here outside of giving them to walk-ons for a year.

[mhuff]

The football team is using two scholarships on a coach's son(s) that could be better spend on additional LBers and DBs.

No one is saying they should have their schollys yanked and their parent's foot the bill, no one complained about them being offered the scholarship initially.

If a player is worthy of a scholarship and earns a scholarship who his or her parent's are should not be a factor in if they are awarded a scholarship.

When was the last time you saw a coach's son NOT get a scollie in FB? Let's see how many scollies do you get in FB. Let's see; did any other schools want those two players? Were they major players or someone we didn't offer a scollie to?

[nextlevel]

When was the last time you saw a coach's son NOT get a scollie in FB? Let's see how many scollies do you get in FB. Let's see; did any other schools want those two players? Were they major players or someone we didn't offer a scollie to?

Bama got a coach's son (not a coach on their team) who had other BCS offers to walk-on, so it happens.

It was the coach's decision to offer a scholarship to the player or invite him to walk-on as it should be.

[la20688]

I have a lot of respect for that kid.i saw nothing put positive attitude from him while he was here. He was always one of the first kids off the bench to congratulate someone. Wish him nothing but success wherever he ends up and in life.

[CDBHawg]

Their dad scratching checks to pay for the entire school costs counts against the 85?

No it would not.

If they received the 50% tuition discount, would they count? I don't know. I do know football scholarship rules are different than basketball. If Kikko had played football, he would've counted against the 85. In basketball he didn't count against the 13.

[CDBHawg]

He was incorrect.  Simply as that.

What was I incorrect about?

"If" or "I could be wrong"

[nextlevel]

If they received the 50% tuition discount, would they count? I don't know. I do know football scholarship rules are different than basketball. If Kikko had played football, he would've counted against the 85. In basketball he didn't count against the 13.

Ignore the discount and assume Allen had to pay 100% for both of his sons, that would open up two more scholarships to be used elsewhere by CBB.

The perception with having the top 3 QBs being walk-ons on the depth chart would not be a positive one from the outside looking in.

I have no problem with the Allens being on scholarship, I will not have a problem with Watkins being on scholarship if Mike decides he has earned it and awards it to him.

[Pork Twain]

And my point is that if we hold on to it, we are waiting a year anyway. I feel that Hannahs wouldn't be a Wagner. If you do, then I understand.

What is it about him that has you sold?  How is he on defense?  I know very little about him other than his FT% and 3PT%

[CDBHawg]

What is it about him that has you sold?  How is he on defense?  I know very little about him other than his FT% and 3PT%

Simple. He can shoot. There is no substitution for shooting in basketball. If he's our 13th best player on scholarship, we'd be a fine team.

[Pork Twain]

Simple. He can shoot. There is no substitution for shooting in basketball. If he's our 13th best player on scholarship, we'd be a fine team.

I wouldn't hate him but I bet if we could not find someone that could play this year, we could easily pick up another 13th best player next year.  Maybe someone even better will come along by then.

[mhuff]

The football team is using two scholarships on a coach's son(s) that could be better spend on additional LBers and DBs.

No one is saying they should have their schollys yanked and their parent's foot the bill, no one complained about them being offered the scholarship initially.

If a player is worthy of a scholarship and earns a scholarship who his or her parent's are should not be a factor in if they are awarded a scholarship.

When was the last time you saw a coach's son NOT get a scollie in FB? Let's see how many scollies do you get in FB. Let's see; did any other schools want those two players? Were they major players or someone we didn't offer a scollie to?

[rude1]

What else is he better at? Passing? Rebounding? Is he really markedly better at defense? Bell seems to be one of our more shaky defenders, to be honest, and I don't see him displaying skill in any other areas outside of shooting jumpers.

And is Bell really even a 3 point specialist? 33% doesn't seem so special.

You are correct about one thing, though -- if he weren't from LR, we wouldn't know or care about him. But he is, so that's a moot point. There are a lot of guys out there that could help us that we don't know about because they aren't from Arkansas. I look at Hannahs as filling more a Kikko-type role. No one's predicting the next Pat Bradley here.

I agree, he needs to play the exact same role as Kiko, all the way down to walking on to the team.

[Pork Twain]

The football team is using two scholarships on a coach's son(s) that could be better spend on additional LBers and DBs.

No one is saying they should have their schollys yanked and their parent's foot the bill, no one complained about them being offered the scholarship initially.

If a player is worthy of a scholarship and earns a scholarship who his or her parent's are should not be a factor in if they are awarded a scholarship.

Man you are REALLY reaching

[Hawg Red]

I agree, he needs to play the exact same role as Kiko, all the way down to walking on to the team.

Kikko's role last season was that of a rotation player. Walk-ons, about 99% of the time, are not in a team's rotation and he played more than several scholarship players. For all intents and purposes, we could consider him a scholarship player because he played like one and was included in the fabric of the team as if he were one.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

What school did Wagner transfer to?

[jseinfeld50]

What school did Wagner transfer to?

Either KU to join Mickelson or IUPUI.

[OnTheHillHogFan]

What school did Wagner transfer to?

Hasn't been announced yet. I would guess a Louisana school

[TheRazorbackGuy]

Either KU to join Mickelson or IUPUI.

KU doesn't have available schlorships so I call BS

[jseinfeld50]

KU doesn't have available schlorships so I call BS

It was a joke - no way they would ever be remotely interested

[The real Hogules]

It was a joke - no way they would ever be remotely interested

The other poster was joking as well..........................

[choppedporkextrasauce]

KU doesn't have available schlorships so I call BS

DUH, lol

[mhuff]

I am sorry it did not work out for the young man. I think he was in contention or beat Qualls for Mr. BB of La. Someone fill me in please.

[Hawg Red]

I am sorry it did not work out for the young man. I think he was in contention or beat Qualls for Mr. BB of La. Someone fill me in please.

He was Player of the Year in Louisiana his senior year for sure.