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Observation from last night's national championship game

Started by pigroots, April 08, 2014, 10:34:49 am

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pigroots

Hog fan stranded here in North Texas so I had the opportunity to take in last night festivities with my son.Some general observations is that Jerryworld is a great facility for a national championship game. They have held enough big events that everything runs smoothly from parking to security to bathrooms to food, hotels, and access to the stadium. It's all top notch.
Some game observations include ...I thought in warmups UConn was more ready to play. Kentucky looked a little lethargic. That's coaches and players. Cal's body language was a more reserved professional approach compared to Ollie's standing up on the sideline, moving and shouting instructions. Definitely 2 different styles. I was able to see why I think the Hog's style gave the Cat's trouble. UK is BIG but not very quick. They had very little chance of stopping the Conn guards from getting whatever shot they wanted in man defense. This demonstrated our need for a ball handing, quick guard who can get their own shot and is a good enough shooter to drain it. The Conn guards were lights out all night. I thought the only reason UK was able to make their run in the first half was Boatright's second foul. The UK zone also changed the game but was much more effective when only 1 of those 2 guards were on the floor. The crowd was probably 60 percent UK but it seemed much more walking around before the game. I did not think their crowd was very loud except on a couple of occasions. It was definitely not the home atmosphere I expected or what Barnhill South once was.
  The final observation was the most obvious of all. Fundamentally sound teams win. This game was decided by free throw shooting. Fouling UConn was giving them 2 points. Kentucky may have left 16-18 points at the line when you count the 1 and 1's. That's unreal for teams at this level.
  This year was a year when there were no great teams. Both these teams were flawed but came up big when it counted. The Hogs are not that far away. We need a game changing guard who shoots the lights out and a mental toughness to bring it every night. If we can find these two things there is no reason that next year we might make that same kind of run.

PS I hope James Young takes his talent to the NBA. He is the real deal.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: pigroots on April 08, 2014, 10:34:49 am
   This game was decided by free throw shooting. Fouling UConn was giving them 2 points. Kentucky may have left 16-18 points at the line when you count the 1 and 1's. That's unreal for teams at this level.

This is normally Cal's team's Achilles heel.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

 

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on April 08, 2014, 11:52:30 am
This is normally Cal's team's Achilles heel.

Yep, not surprising as they went 38-62 61% from the line in our two wins against them.

My observations from the game: didn't watch.  Took a nap and watched reruns of River Monsters.  Checked the score late and afterwards out of curiosity but did not care to watch either of these programs.  Napier's postgame comments reassured me I made the right decision. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on April 08, 2014, 12:04:09 pm
Yep, not surprising as they went 38-62 61% from the line in our two wins against them.

My observations from the game: didn't watch.  Took a nap and watched reruns of River Monsters.  Checked the score late and afterwards out of curiosity but did not care to watch either of these programs.  Napier's postgame comments reassured me I made the right decision. 

Cal has now lost two NC games partly due to missed free throws.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on April 08, 2014, 12:04:09 pm
Yep, not surprising as they went 38-62 61% from the line in our two wins against them.

My observations from the game: didn't watch.  Took a nap and watched reruns of River Monsters.  Checked the score late and afterwards out of curiosity but did not care to watch either of these programs.  Napier's postgame comments reassured me I made the right decision. 

Cal has now lost two NC games partly due to missed free throws.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Inhogswetrust

If Napier didn't like what the NCAA did then he could have left like some of his teammates did when they were penalized. But I do give him credit for hanging in there with his other teammates and commitment to the school.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

BigBlueHell

Quote from: pigroots on April 08, 2014, 10:34:49 am
This game was decided by free throw shooting. Fouling UConn was giving them 2 points. Kentucky may have left 16-18 points at the line when you count the 1 and 1's. That's unreal for teams at this level.

When asked about UK's free throw shooting woes, Calipari has consistently said that free throw shooting is not this team's problem.  He has said that multiple times.  He talks about other mistakes that his team makes, and always says free throw shooting is not an issue.  A lot of UK fans do not agree.
My 2 favorite teams...my Arkansas Razorbacks and whoever is playing Kentucky.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: BigBlueHell on April 08, 2014, 04:17:41 pm
When asked about UK's free throw shooting woes, Calipari has consistently said that free throw shooting is not this team's problem.  He has said that multiple times.  He talks about other mistakes that his team makes, and always says free throw shooting is not an issue.  A lot of UK fans do not agree.

He also said something similar while coaching at Memphis. Those other mistakes can be overcome perhaps by better free throw shooting. It's as much a part of the game as those other mistakes.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

sowmonella

My biggest observation from the whole tourney was the way officials didn't call fouls unless blood was drawn. If  officials had called the regular season the same way we would have won 25 games. Zero consistency by the zebras this year.
Not trying to brag or make anyone jealous but I can still fit into the same pair of socks I wore in high school.
Proud member since August 2003

Hoggish1

Regardless of how good UCONN'S guards are, and they are good!, if you can't shoot better than that at the line, you aren't going to win!

Temprees

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on April 08, 2014, 12:11:45 pm
Cal has now lost two NC games partly due to missed free throws.
Generally, tired players don't shoot free throws very well.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: Temprees on April 08, 2014, 10:07:26 pm
Generally, tired players don't shoot free throws very well.

So why does his opponents shoot free throws better? Are they better conditioned OR do they put more emphasis on it?
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

nextlevel

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on April 09, 2014, 12:47:50 pm
So why does his opponents shoot free throws better? Are they better conditioned OR do they put more emphasis on it?

His opponents shoot better free throws because normally his opponent's coach places a great emphasis on free throws.

Cal put free throws all on his players, meaning, he expects them to put in the work to improve their FT shooting on their own time. He has repeatedly said through the years that "free throws don't matter".

Often times games are Won or Lost at the FT line. Many do not realize the importance of this because all the commentators harp on is other areas of the game, mainly with rebounding. Many guys in the media place an emphasis on rebounding while marginalizing the importance of free throw shooting. They will harp on the rebounding differential but will rarely mention the FT differential in makes and attempts (partly because there is a hint of the refs having a role in this).

Often time winning teams will shoot above 70% from the line, the losing team below 70%, the only way a poor % can be over come is by shooting a larger amount of FTs to compensate for the %.

UCONN shot 100% from the line (10 makes), Kentucky was 60% (13 makes). UK being +3 at the line was erased by UCONN hitting a single additional 3 pointer (6 to 5 IIRC). The point difference came from the field where both teams were pretty even % wise, UCONN had many more attempts.

You use to hear about the importance of FTs all the time, from commentators to HCs, not so much today. A pet peeve of mine is the over-emphasis of defensive rebounding, which is just a defensive shot after a shot, it is played up to be more important and a better defensive stop than a steal or force tournover which occurs before a shot is attempted.

Offensive rebounding is important, but failing to differentiate the two and combining them when talking about the stats is very misleading to what actually is important in rebounding vs defensive stops.
Quote from: GUVHOG on March 07, 2011, 11:26:42 am
I'll make a prediction: If BCG were to get the Tennessee job, Calipari will be fired from UK within 2 years because from the 2013-2014 season on, Tennessee will own the SEC East until BCG moves on or retires.

ell oh ell

 

gmarv

everything is relative take offensive rebounding you can skew the numbers by
not being a good shooting team and a great rebounding team. having to get 2 and 3 rebounds if you still don,t score then that trip was wasted.but it
looks good on paper. do that 3 or 4 times a game and your offensive rebounding looks great, but you got very little from it.

nextlevel

Quote from: gmarv on April 09, 2014, 01:44:24 pm
everything is relative take offensive rebounding you can skew the numbers by
not being a good shooting team and a great rebounding team. having to get 2 and 3 rebounds if you still don,t score then that trip was wasted.but it
looks good on paper. do that 3 or 4 times a game and your offensive rebounding looks great, but you got very little from it.

Exactly. Arkansas was said to be "getting killed" because of the boards several times this year, for example, when in reality they had equal or more 2nd chance points as the opponent and the area where they were "getting killed" was the FT line or self inflicted by the number of 3 pointer taken compared to 3 pointers made.

The general idea or theme that there is only one way to play the game or win the games is well laughable.
Quote from: GUVHOG on March 07, 2011, 11:26:42 am
I'll make a prediction: If BCG were to get the Tennessee job, Calipari will be fired from UK within 2 years because from the 2013-2014 season on, Tennessee will own the SEC East until BCG moves on or retires.

ell oh ell

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: nextlevel on April 09, 2014, 01:00:52 pm
His opponents shoot better free throws because normally his opponent's coach places a great emphasis on free throws.

Cal put free throws all on his players, meaning, he expects them to put in the work to improve their FT shooting on their own time. He has repeatedly said through the years that "free throws don't matter".

Often times games are Won or Lost at the FT line. Many do not realize the importance of this because all the commentators harp on is other areas of the game, mainly with rebounding. Many guys in the media place an emphasis on rebounding while marginalizing the importance of free throw shooting. They will harp on the rebounding differential but will rarely mention the FT differential in makes and attempts (partly because there is a hint of the refs having a role in this).

Often time winning teams will shoot above 70% from the line, the losing team below 70%, the only way a poor % can be over come is by shooting a larger amount of FTs to compensate for the %.

UCONN shot 100% from the line (10 makes), Kentucky was 60% (13 makes). UK being +3 at the line was erased by UCONN hitting a single additional 3 pointer (6 to 5 IIRC). The point difference came from the field where both teams were pretty even % wise, UCONN had many more attempts.

You use to hear about the importance of FTs all the time, from commentators to HCs, not so much today. A pet peeve of mine is the over-emphasis of defensive rebounding, which is just a defensive shot after a shot, it is played up to be more important and a better defensive stop than a steal or force tournover which occurs before a shot is attempted.

Offensive rebounding is important, but failing to differentiate the two and combining them when talking about the stats is very misleading to what actually is important in rebounding vs defensive stops.

Nice post. Very well thought out.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: nextlevel on April 09, 2014, 01:53:57 pm
Exactly. Arkansas was said to be "getting killed" because of the boards several times this year, for example, when in reality they had equal or more 2nd chance points as the opponent and the area where they were "getting killed" was the FT line or self inflicted by the number of 3 pointer taken compared to 3 pointers made.

The general idea or theme that there is only one way to play the game or win the games is well laughable.

Yep. Unfortunately though some people think playing a certain way is always better than an alternative way.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

nextlevel

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on April 09, 2014, 02:13:13 pm
Yep. Unfortunately though some people think playing a certain way is always better than an alternative way.

Yes.

My favorite is the theory that the B1G slow it down style of play is "tournament ball", meaning that is the style that wins in the tournament even tho it hasn't won the tournament in over a decade.

What it has accomplished is spreading out coaches who use this philosophy across the country and lead to the current choking out of interest and excitement exhibited towards college basketball.

It is sad a style of play that isn't enjoyable to watch has taken over college basketball which use to be great due to the various offensive and defensive philosophies used by coaches across the country. CFB now has more diversity in philosophies across the nation.
Quote from: GUVHOG on March 07, 2011, 11:26:42 am
I'll make a prediction: If BCG were to get the Tennessee job, Calipari will be fired from UK within 2 years because from the 2013-2014 season on, Tennessee will own the SEC East until BCG moves on or retires.

ell oh ell

Atlhogfan1

How many of those opponents' off reb's led to FT's for them?  It also helped them dictate the pace of the game.  Closing out defensive possessions takes away the risk of fouling having to guard longer or in a situation where the defense is broken down in a 2nd, 3rd, 4th... shot attempt or having to guard a put back attempt in the post.  Getting defensive rebounds and getting the ball out to the guards to push off of first shot misses helps dictate pace much better than an opponent getting multiple opportunities while keeping possession.  Factor in time an opponent can keep the ball and the additional rest provided by the FT opportunities gained from the extra opportunities and it still works against us.  The extra possessions leading to shot attempts get offset with every extra shot opportunity given up to an opponent.  Sure a lack of def reb can be offset by how we play if we are having success that game in creating turnovers and hitting shots.  Our pace can be forced in that way. 

Is the B1G still slow it down?  Iowa would have led the SEC in scoring and Michigan State would have been 3rd behind Arkansas.  Michigan and Wisconsin did not play slow.  MSU tied Iowa St with most points in an NCAAT game this year. 

Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

nextlevel

The B1G's pace was up this year from year's past.

Describing that style of ball as being B1G ball is the equivalent as calling Chaney's offense a pro-style offense or Gus' a high-school offense. Each gets the name based on where they were created.

The rest of what you describe ignores the original point, a steal or forced turnover occurs before a shot attempt by the opposition, that is far better than a defensive rebound after an initial shot attempt as far as a possession in the game, that is what is often ignored.

In terms of football since that is the sport most also follow, If I said a bend but don't break defense is the only way to play the game, it would be laughed at and highly argued. It is just as much reactionary and "after the fact" in a way as playing a defense solely geared towards defensive rebounding.

If I said an aggressive defense that blitzed as often as possible was the only way to play, it would be laughed at, but it would prevent the offenses chances save for the "home run play".

People will generally agree you can be reactionary and conservative or aggressive on either or both side of the ball in football. The idea that this same difference in philosophies (conservative/aggressive) can be applied in basketball almost seems taboo in today's world.

The only stats that matter is the stats that lend to your team's greatest chance at success, (Do you think Oregon gives a crap about TOP in football?) constantly bitching and complaining about stats that don't matter to that team and that team's style of play is from either being ignorant to the philosophy of that team or just looking for something to bitch and complain about.

There is no one way to play any game (Football, basketball, baseball, lacrosse, hockey, etc), no one way is proven to be more of a guarantee to success than another.
Quote from: GUVHOG on March 07, 2011, 11:26:42 am
I'll make a prediction: If BCG were to get the Tennessee job, Calipari will be fired from UK within 2 years because from the 2013-2014 season on, Tennessee will own the SEC East until BCG moves on or retires.

ell oh ell

MountieDawg

Kentucky lost because they did not dominate the boards like they normally do. Maybe you could blame Cal's free throw defense. At the Final Four the opponents shot 31 of 32 from the free throw line.  Maybe Cal should find a way to defend those shots. They also lost because Napier was ridiculous. Most shots he made were not defendable. I was at the game and he hit a three from the Final Four logo, many step back shots on drives.

The young Cats looked nervous for the first time in the tournament. To those that don't think Cal has his team work on free throws, you are clueless. He doesn't blame games on free throws, but I know a guy well that covers the Cats and the work on them everyday.
SEC!

HognotinMemphis

I am waiting for someone to explain how SMU swept Uconn this year.
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
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Cresthog

Quote from: HoginMemphis on April 12, 2014, 10:27:47 am
I am waiting for someone to explain how SMU swept Uconn this year.

They're a pretty good team and other good teams have off nights?

We beat Florida national title team in 06 I think?

nextlevel

Quote from: HoginMemphis on April 12, 2014, 10:27:47 am
I am waiting for someone to explain how SMU swept Uconn this year.

Same reason why Arkansas and Florida swept Kentucky and Louisville blew out UCONN, matchups.

Each team was able to force the other to do/play the game how they wanted it to be in those games.
Quote from: GUVHOG on March 07, 2011, 11:26:42 am
I'll make a prediction: If BCG were to get the Tennessee job, Calipari will be fired from UK within 2 years because from the 2013-2014 season on, Tennessee will own the SEC East until BCG moves on or retires.

ell oh ell