Shabazz Napier's Postgame Comments

[bigredone]

Doesn't matter. Afterall it is about the student and not the school when it comes to being a dedicated student and WANTING to graduate. I've known and still know plenty of  former players. They had personal time to do things. I will admit they didn't and don't have as much time as other students but they do have time.

This is the issue for me, any classroom can only advance as fast as its slowest student. If these kids have no business taking college courses they have no business getting a college scholarship. Not everyone has the required ability to complete college level work. At one time you had to prove that you had what it takes to get into a university and there are only a few schools that are still that way now.

Our society is screwed up by lowering standards to allow everyone to feel good about themselves. They preach that everyone needs a college degree even though we all know that everyone has different talents and a large portion of them are not in the classroom. This is why there are so many b.s. courses offered now because the average guy off the street cannot comprehend advanced science or math.

The NCAA is screwed up because they want the advertising dollars from college sports and they want everyone to get a college degree even if it is a b.s. field. College is not about quality anymore, they want to make money like McDonald's in having quantity. Any rule they try to make to increase the quality of the education is going to be resisted by those that think college should be minor leagues for professional sports.

[Cotton]

If a student athlete doesn't get a degree it is their fault not the schools.

You misread my post.

[Cotton]

Remind me again, who is forcing these students to play ball?

Who forces you to watch it? Don't play dumb here ricepig.

Do you want to watch it in poor conditions or the best conditions possible?

[PorkRinds]

When I was a regular student I went hungry sometimes as well.

I guess my point is that I highly doubt a national championship caliber team like UCONN has players that go to bed hungry.  Highly doubt it.  I mean, maybe in a "man I wish I had a snack" kind of way, but I doubt he's suffering hunger while living it up as a college basketball player.  I'm betting he has plenty of chances to eat.  Likely more than most college students.

[Atlhogfan1]

I was annoyed by the comments.  But I'll admit I have a bias against both programs who played last night especially UConn and it is why I didn't watch the game.  In the last few years, UConn has had their program's pay for recruits system and cheat for them on standardized tests system exposed and was banned for postseason for the low APR.  For that matter, Cal knows how to get around those standardized tests too.  UConn is the only major college program I am aware of who has been banned.  The others who joined them have been low majors including some HBCU's.  This is who can't manage to keep their programs eligible.  The great majority of all collegiate programs and their athletes manage to work within the NCAA's guidelines.  But then you get to basketball and football and certain programs fail.  It is dangerous to discuss p.c.-wise why some do.  Those supposedly being "exploited" fall into a group that seems to have issues with supposedly being "exploited".

The NCAA is far from perfect but it is a necessary evil if we are going to have "college" athletics.  The APR needs to be revised to not punish kids for failures from before they arrived on campus.  The way it is calculated needs to be revised.  But again, most every program in every sport at most universities in D1 can manage to do well enough as it is now to keep their programs eligible for postseason.  These rules keep getting created because programs keep failing to police themselves.  It's a cycle of crap for lack of a better way of being able to say it in a public forum.  We Arkansas fans old enough to remember the early 90s are familiar with this. Coaches recruit kids they know will at best struggle academically at their university or don't care about academics anyway and have little intention of getting a degree.  But they need them to win to keep their job and make their millions.  The colleges want them as success brings money.  The kids are too ignorant, not all their fault considering the environments they come from in many cases, to take advantage of the educational opportunity if they are capable of doing so.  Last night was a great example of this crap that is the top of the major college basketball and football food chains just like the BCS CG was - not necessarily the current UConn team but rather the program they represent.  It is a shame since the vast majority of college athletes, programs and universities manage to keep college athletics in perspective and can play within the rules and stay eligible.   

I won't disagree with the notion that a certain group of programs should leave the NCAA and create their own basketball and football league.   They can lower their standards all they want and pay players.  We could decide if we want to continue to support them.  My guess is though that we see this strung out for a while longer.  Programs like Stanford, Vandy and some in the B1G and ACC will continue to have to try and blend in with the rest of the SEC, Oh St, FSU and UConn's of the major college sports world. 

The NCAA, the universities and their programs who failed in the APR and the former players who failed should be criticized. 

[jry04]

You are completely wrong. You couldn't be further from the truth actually. I have experienced this first hand and witnessed it multiple times every year.

These rules are made to look good on paper, but the people making them have no idea what it's like to be a student athlete. Nor do you apparently.

There are degree completion requirements. Yeah it's great that we get athletes degrees, but nobody wants to talk about how many athletes didn't get a degree they wanted to pursue because of these stupid requirements. I won't expect you to understand any of this though, you have the same type of "knowledge" of this subject that the people making the rules do.

I am not wrong because I currently work in college athletics. I know exactly how it all works. The rules are made by the universities. Everything you said is either because you are uneducated, or lying. I am going to assume you are uneducated.

Every rule in the NCAA handbook is there because the universities wanted it there. They are proposed and voted on by the member institutions. The NCAA just enforces the rules that the universities come up with. Not really that hard to understand.

Instead we have fans who sit around and say "The NCAA makes such stupid rules."

As for the part about being forced to take 15 hours during the summer semester, I will go ahead and call you a liar on that. No other way to put it other than being a liar. At no point did the NCAA ever tell an athlete to take 15 hours during the summer, regardless of the status of their grades.

[ricepig]

Who forces you to watch it? Don't play dumb here ricepig.

Do you want to watch it in poor conditions or the best conditions possible?

No one forces me, I make that decision, just as these kids choose to play college sports.

[Cotton]

I am not wrong because I currently work in college athletics. I know exactly how it all works. The rules are made by the universities. Everything you said is either because you are uneducated, or lying. I am going to assume you are uneducated.

Every rule in the NCAA handbook is there because the universities wanted it there. They are proposed and voted on by the member institutions. The NCAA just enforces the rules that the universities come up with. Not really that hard to understand.

Instead we have fans who sit around and say "The NCAA makes such stupid rules."

As for the part about being forced to take 15 hours during the summer semester, I will go ahead and call you a liar on that. No other way to put it other than being a liar. At no point did the NCAA ever tell an athlete to take 15 hours during the summer, regardless of the status of their grades.

You might be the most clueless employee in college athletics.

I'm not a liar, and the fact that your only defense is to call me a liar is proof enough you have no idea what you're talking about.

I shouldn't waste my time, but I'll give you one of several examples, because I feel sorry for you.

Player A is a football player at University A. He is going into his junior season of college athletics. NCAA requires that he has 60% of his degree completed. At the end of 2 years of college, player A has just selected his major after finishing his general education credits and finds out he is only at 40%. He then has two choices.  Take 15 hours of summer school or change his major to a degree he doesn't want.

This is a real life example that has happened to more than one player I know personally. You're wrong, and possibly completely clueless. I'm hoping you're just not man enough to admit being wrong and aren't actually as clueless as you come across.

[Cotton]

No one forces me, I make that decision, just as these kids choose to play college sports.

You ignored the second part.

[ricepig]

You ignored the second part.

Once I've made my choice to watch, I've given that up, I'm just happy to get to watch the game. In a perfect world, I'd want to watch it in my man cave, but this is far from a perfect world.

[Atlhogfan1]

The NCAA rules grow and change because the member institutions see some of its fellow members choosing to fail to keep athletics in perspective in trying to gain a competitive advantage or in failing to maintain at least some semblance of academic integrity.  Sure some bad rules have been created over the years.  That is inevitable with a body this large trying to govern so many varying sports at so many different universities.  In D1 alone we have the Ivy League and some universities on that end of the academic scale with public commuter schools who will let in any kid with pulse and way to pay for it.  Or in instances of athletic scholarships, the pulse with athletic ability will do.  Forget about ability to actually do college coursework or pay for it.  One governing body with rules that are the same for everyone is going to see exceptions where the rules or their enforcement of the rules is going to look bad or wrong or nitpicky etc.  Then factor in the NCAA has no subpoena power when it comes to investigations and it will be made to look bad.  The organization needs retooling.  But it is made to look bad by the members who created it and agree to participate within it. 

[Atlhogfan1]

You might be the most clueless employee in college athletics.

I'm not a liar, and the fact that your only defense is to call me a liar is proof enough you have no idea what you're talking about.

I shouldn't waste my time, but I'll give you one of several examples, because I feel sorry for you.

Player A is a football player at University A. He is going into his junior season of college athletics. NCAA requires that he has 60% of his degree completed. At the end of 2 years of college, player A has just selected his major after finishing his general education credits and finds out he is only at 40%. He then has two choices.  Take 15 hours of summer school or change his major to a degree he doesn't want.

This is a real life example that has happened to more than one player I know personally. You're wrong, and possibly completely clueless. I'm hoping you're just not man enough to admit being wrong and aren't actually as clueless as you come across.

Perhaps rules like the example you have given have become too strict.  But your example is an exception.  These rules wouldn't exist if universities and their programs had done a better job in the past with their athletes.  A few bad programs cause these potential issues for everyone. 

[jry04]

You might be the most clueless employee in college athletics.

I'm not a liar, and the fact that your only defense is to call me a liar is proof enough you have no idea what you're talking about.

I shouldn't waste my time, but I'll give you one of several examples, because I feel sorry for you.

Player A is a football player at University A. He is going into his junior season of college athletics. NCAA requires that he has 60% of his degree completed. At the end of 2 years of college, player A has just selected his major after finishing his general education credits and finds out he is only at 40%. He then has two choices.  Take 15 hours of summer school or change his major to a degree he doesn't want.

This is a real life example that has happened to more than one player I know personally. You're wrong, and possibly completely clueless. I'm hoping you're just not man enough to admit being wrong and aren't actually as clueless as you come across.

Again, those rules are set by the member institutions. It is the not the NCAA who made the rules, it is the university. By the way, your example is wrong. Don't call me clueless when you cannot even get your story correct. It is 40% after your 2nd year, so he would have been eligible. You must complete an additional 20% each year. That is a rule voted by the universities, like every rule. The NCAA "big-wigs" did not come up with that rule and start making kids do that, it is the school. It is also up to the school to make sure they remain eligible and do all that is necessary academically. Most universities have study hall hours, and have far more academic resources available to student-athletes than the average student. A player must be on track to complete their degree program in 5 years. If a student-athlete cannot complete their degree in 5 consecutive years, than that is their own problem, not the NCAA's.

Degree percentages do exist. I must have missed where you were talking about that. I assumed you were saying they were requiring certain classes. However, it is fairly easy to comply with the percentages, and the NCAA does not tell a student they have to take 5 courses during a summer semester. If a student is truly taking the minimum number of courses, and is passing like you said, they would have no issue complying with a degree completion program. 15 hours certainly would never be taken in the summer. Silly to think that. Normal students are only permitted to take a maximum of 12 in the summer, barring some kind of exception.

The example you gave meant that the athlete missed an entire year's worth of course work. So he either failed or dropped out of 7 or 8 courses.

[Cotton]

Perhaps rules like the example you have given have become too strict.  But your example is an exception.  These rules wouldn't exist if universities and their programs had done a better job in the past with their athletes.  A few bad programs cause these potential issues for everyone.

I agree with you here. The rules are too strict and controlling. We're back to punishing kids for stuff they didn't do, for what people before them did.

And I realize I misspoke in my example. The player was a redshirt and had completed 3 years, but was selecting a major to pursue. The percentages were correct, and this athlete was required to take 15 hours, but elected to change his major. He know has a useless degree he didn't want and had to come back to finish a different degree after he finished playing.

I know of other players that were in the same boat or were forced to change majors to be eligible.

[Cotton]

Once I've made my choice to watch, I've given that up, I'm just happy to get to watch the game. In a perfect world, I'd want to watch it in my man cave, but this is far from a perfect world.

If you could choose between bunny ears and HD you would take HD. Just because something works, doesn't mean it can't be improved to be much better.

[alohawg]

His comment reminded me why I never liked Uconn in the first place.

Same here.

[ricepig]

If you could choose between bunny ears and HD you would take HD. Just because something works, doesn't mean it can't be improved to be much better.

I'm already being given an 80" HD, why should I complain?

[Cotton]

I'm already being given an 80" HD, why should I complain?

More like a 32 with Standard Def.

[kingofdequeen]

More like a 32 with Standard Def.

better than my iphone and a bathroom stall.  :/

[cosmodrum]

better than my iphone and a bathroom stall.  :/

So you'll understand if you ever try to hand me your phone and I first ask for a hazmat suit

[elksnort]

really?  you know how much better off the hogs would be if they had that kind of leadership?

Why do you think people love Corey Beck so much?

You aren't kidding.

How many more games would our Razorbacks have won with Shabazz Napier at pg?

[kingofdequeen]

So you'll understand if you ever try to hand me your phone and I first ask for a hazmat suit

it's sterile.  carry it in the steam room 3-4x a week.

[Cotton]

better than my iphone and a bathroom stall.  :/

Are we still talking about watching football?

[kingofdequeen]

Are we still talking about watching football?

sure.  why not.

[kennymayne]

This kid goes to bed starving at night because he doesn't have enough money to go spend $7 at McDonald's but he's got enough money to have half of both his arms tatted up? Plus who knows how many on his chest, back, etc. Please.

[EastexHawg]

Did the school make millions off your performance there and have control over virtually every minute of your waking day?  If not, then your comparison is inept.

Easy solution.  Quit athletics, pay your own way, and you can go about pursuing whatever major you want and work on academics whenever you damn well please.

[Cotton]

Easy solution.  Quit athletics, pay your own way, and you can go about pursuing whatever major you want and work on academics whenever you damn well please.

You say this now, but if the players actually quit and held out of sports all of you would come crying for them to come back.

I wish they would just to shut some of you up complaining that they "already receive enough" when it's been documented they don't even receive enough to cover their expenses.

[kennymayne]

nm

[kennymayne]

You say this now, but if the players actually quit and held out of sports all of you would come crying for them to come back.

I wish they would just to shut some of you up complaining that they "already receive enough" when it's been documented they don't even receive enough to cover their expenses.

Do "expenses" include 1000's of dollars in tattoes?

[Cotton]

Do "expenses" include 1000's of dollars in tattoes?

Dumb question and completely irrelevant.

[kennymayne]

Dumb question and completely irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant? If he has enough money to go pay for something as nonessential as a tattoo, but he doesn't have money to go to the nearest drive-thru to keep from "starving?" Doesn't make sense.

This is assuming that he's actually paying for his tats.

[EastexHawg]

You say this now, but if the players actually quit and held out of sports all of you would come crying for them to come back.

I wish they would just to shut some of you up complaining that they "already receive enough" when it's been documented they don't even receive enough to cover their expenses.

I'm way ahead of you...

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=565491.msg8917523#msg8917523

[Cotton]

How is it irrelevant? If he has enough money to go pay for something as nonessential as a tattoo, but he doesn't have money to go to the nearest drive-thru to keep from "starving?" Doesn't make sense.

This is assuming that he's actually paying for his tats.

Completely irrelevant where that money comes from. You're missing the point completely.

The scholarship pays X. A students expenses are Y. X < Y

Bottom Line.

[kennymayne]

Completely irrelevant where that money comes from. You're missing the point completely.

The scholarship pays X. A students expenses are Y. X < Y

Bottom Line.

I just can't feel bad for a kid who says that but yet still stands there with obvious evidence of money spent on things other than essentials. Its obviously not THAT bad.

[Cotton]

I just can't feel bad for a kid who says that but yet still stands there with obvious evidence of money spent on things other than essentials. Its obviously not THAT bad.

You know nothing about his life.

More importantly, this isn't about 1 kid. It's about 50,000 student athletes not being paid enough, nor what they deserve.

[kennymayne]

You know nothing about his life.

More importantly, this isn't about 1 kid. It's about 50,000 student athletes not being paid enough, nor what they deserve.

Ok, i'm not pretending to know anything about his life. I'm just commenting on what i see. And what i see is he obviously has some extra cash. And yes, last time I checked, thread was about Napier's comments.

I'm all for the kids being compensated for their work, whatever that form is. But I can't agree with this kids comments. 

[ricepig]

You know nothing about his life.

More importantly, this isn't about 1 kid. It's about 50,000 student athletes not being paid enough, nor what they deserve.

I don't think you'll find too many that disagree that student athletes need to be "paid" the full cost of attending a college. Now, the devil will be in the details on deciding this cost.

[Cotton]

Ok, i'm not pretending to know anything about his life. I'm just commenting on what i see. And what i see is he obviously has some extra cash. And yes, last time I checked, thread was about Napier's comments.

I'm all for the kids being compensated for their work, whatever that form is. But I can't agree with this kids comments.

What if he got them before college? What if they were gifts? Maybe his dad or best friend is a tattoo artist. You just don't want to admit he has a point. Stop looking at the messenger and pay attention to the message.

There's tons of non-tattooed athletes that are dirt poor and don't have anything. There's other athletes that have lots of money. Neither athlete is paid enough money to even cover their expenses!

[kennymayne]

What if he got them before college? What if they were gifts? Maybe his dad or best friend is a tattoo artist. You just don't want to admit he has a point. Stop looking at the messenger and pay attention to the message.

There's tons of non-tattooed athletes that are dirt poor and don't have anything. There's other athletes that have lots of money. Neither athlete is paid enough money to even cover their expenses!

Well if they were gifts the people need to be giving him food instead of tats. And if his dad owns a tattoo parlor then he needs to do the same. Again I'm not debating the fact these kids need more but this is not the way to go about getting it.

[Cotton]

I don't think you'll find too many that disagree that student athletes need to be "paid" the full cost of attending a college. Now, the devil will be in the details on deciding this cost.

There's a select few knuckleheads that do. Either way, you're right about trying to determine actual cost vs projected cost

[Inhogswetrust]

Do "expenses" include 1000's of dollars in tattoes?

It does at the ohio state university........................................

[EastexHawg]

If you believe there are athletes at universities who go hungry because they can't afford to eat you have to also believe they come from families that either don't help them financially AT ALL or that can't afford to help enough to keep their kids from being hungry.

In either case, what are the odds that the student athlete would be attending the University of Arkansas or any other college if he wasn't there on a scholarship provided by the university?

I'm all for allowing every player who wants to try out for the NFL or any other professional league/team to try to make the jump directly out of high school.  That shouldn't be a problem since their abilities are so developed by that time that they should be paid by the colleges that are supposedly currently exploiting them.

They'll probably fare just as well as pros without spending 3-5 years under the tutelage of a Nick Saban and staff or any other group of major college coaches...as well as without their respective strength and conditioning programs.

[rzrbackramsfan]

I saw all of Napier I ever care to see last night.
He's got great talent, but I was less than impressed with his shoving on his own teammate and his reaction when both he and Boatwright were trying to save the ball out of bounds.

That was rare from him he's usually very calm

[HognotinMemphis]

A risk they willingly take just like they willingly take the scholarship.

They are on year to year scholarship. The university is making millions...per year. If I break my leg and cannot play football again, I would want more than the cost of the rest of my education.

[HogSophist]

I wouldn't call shoving your teammate out of frustration leadership. If he does that crap when he gets to the NBA - he'll be replacing some teeth.

must have been what steve kerr tried on MJ when he got punched in the face.

[HogSophist]

The thing people don't understand is how ridiculous the rules and expectations are. Degree completion percentages, ect.

You've got some athletes taking 15 hours of summer school just to be eligible. Athletes that have good grades and passed the classes they took, but don't meet some expectation set by some big wig sitting behind his glass windows in a skyscraper.

NCAA is a complete joke of an organization.

agree on the NCAA, but what exactly are the rules?

another well written article said that APR math despite its depth, is to graduate roughly 50%......

[hoglady]

When I was a regular student I went hungry sometimes as well.

You had to find the places that had free appetizers during happy hour. El Chico was a pretty good place when low on funds (in Baton Rouge). Had many a supper of chips and salsa while ordering 1 soda or 1 beer during Happy Hour.

[Inhogswetrust]

They are on year to year scholarship. The university is making millions...per year. If I break my leg and cannot play football again, I would want more than the cost of the rest of my education.

It's VOLUNTARY. IF you don't want to take the risk then don't sign up.

[Cotton]

agree on the NCAA, but what exactly are the rules?

another well written article said that APR math despite its depth, is to graduate roughly 50%......

There are so many rules the athletic departments have several paid employees just to make sure student athletes follow all of them. You can do some surfing on NCAA website but you'll get bored after the first 50 pages of rules.

APR is a whole nother monster. However, it should be noted that Student-Athletes have higher graduation rates and GPAs than the general student body.

[ricepig]

It's VOLUNTARY. IF you don't want to take the risk then don't sign up.

Now, you know we are forcing these young men and women to come to these schools to play various sports.