Is this an explanation of Little Rocks decline in high school football?

[gustofwind]

The funding boils down to this.

Millage:

Fayetteville averages out to a 54.37
LR 46.4
NLR 48.3
Pulaski 40.7

This is from the Fayetteville SD website regarding athletic budget. Considering that the budget is well over $100 million, it's a lot of money.

3) What percentage of the district's budget is spent on athletics or administration?

Less than 2% of the district's budget is allocated to athletics. Donations from private donors to the athletic booster club enable the athletic programs to expand their programs without additional cost to the district.

The district also spends about 3.8% of the budget on administrative salaries. This includes all district administrators, principals, and assistant principals.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

this \/ is what LR doesn't have.... (no legs for their table)

But, I thought there was a LOT of big money in LR that the University of Arkansas would lose if they removed games from LR? If there is that much money there, as to influence games staying in LR (even though we lose potential revenues every time a game is played there), then why isn't there more emphasis among these big donors in terms of fund raising to help keep LRPS football on the map? Not being a S.A., I am truly asking. One would think that if they are so motivated to keep games at WMS, they would be more motivated to help keep a more generous pipeline of developed in-state talent headed to the U of A from the LR area?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Because sometimes an addict has to hit rock bottom before they are ready for help

So you are saying that keeping a high level of high school football in the LR Public Schools isn't important enough at this point to the big money folks, who could help tip the scales the other way by helping to fund improvements, to get involved?

[impact]

No matter how much this board hates Nutt, ask our resident journalists how he was received at the LR Touchdown club.

Maybe he could play an ambassador role to revive LR football?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Obviously you want to stir the pot of all problems LR as it relates to your agenda of GSD. 

Start your search of an answer of why the decline of football when it declined and see if if any other major change took place about the same time.

Then place you big donor hat on with the ego that goes along with it, and say to yourself who deserves my money and who does not.

Not stirring the pot at all, just asking legit questions.

As for your statement, please inform all of us.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

No matter how much this board hates Nutt, ask our resident journalists how he was received at the LR Touchdown club.

Maybe he could play an ambassador role to revive LR football?

As I said earlier in the thread, maybe Nutt should be contracted to revive LR HS football.

[bphi11ips]

A person becomes successful because of desire, determination, and support from family. That is a basic statement.

A school is successful because the students, teachers, and school board have desire, determination, and the school has support from it's enrollment zone.  Another basic statement.

In those basic statements, if any one of those success components are broken on a large enough scale then the student and/or the school fails.

When those those basic success components are failing based on imposed mandates then you have failure.

Football is the least problem schools in Pulaski county have.

A voice in the wilderness.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

A person becomes successful because of desire, determination, and support from family. That is a basic statement.

A school is successful because the students, teachers, and school board have desire, determination, and the school has support from it's enrollment zone.  Another basic statement.

In those basic statements, if any one of those success components are broken on a large enough scale then the student and/or the school fails.

When those those basic success components are failing based on imposed mandates then you have failure.

Football is the least problem schools in Pulaski county have.

I don't disagree with any of that and as I said earlier, I am not as familiar with the LR School System as many of you, which is why I posed the original question. I don't know all of the problems that LR has and I rely on those of you on here who are to help many of us who live out of state, understand these things.

This really wasn't ever meant to be a GSD argument, but with as much as I have heard about how the University would lose major financial support for moving games out of LR, that would then suggest that there should be more than adequate financial resources available to help restore the football programs in the LR metro area, if they were motivated to do so. Question is, why is that not happening?

[immahog]

Isn't that what this guy is supposed to be doing?

John Daniels
LRSD Athletic Director
Phone Number: (501) 447-2062
E-Mail: john.daniels@lrsd.org

"THIS GUY" was my high school football coach At Little rock hall from 2002-2005... He just became the AD a yr ago Good guy ......just hated that he made us run a freakin Wishbone offense like we had 300 lbs lineman

[MuskogeeHogFan]

"THIS GUY" was my high school football coach At Little rock hall from 2002-2005... He just became the AD a yr ago Good guy ......just hated that he made us run a freakin Wishbone offense like we had 300 lbs lineman

Based on what others have said within this thread, it sounds like he doesn't have the help at his disposal to give him an opportunity to make the necessary improvements in the LR athletic programs. Tough position to be in for someone in an admin slot.

[immahog]

Based on what others have said within this thread, it sounds like he doesn't have the help at his disposal to give him an opportunity to make the necessary improvements in the LR athletic programs. Tough position to be in for someone in an admin slot.

I agree he def does not have the support

[DeltaBoy]

The Nutts got enough money to bank roll a large part of this.

[razorbeck]

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!   The district here isn't willing to allot extra funding for the additional training and offseason weight programs to help the student athlete here. 
[/quote]

This is something that I know several school districts are looking at and some have even implemented in taking the period away for athletics.  I think the more you see school districts do this...you will continue to see the decline in sports in those districts.  From what I can see with kids today...if they are not incented to participate in different athletics...you will see more and more just want to "hang out"

[DeltaBoy]

But, I thought there was a LOT of big money in LR that the University of Arkansas would lose if they removed games from LR? If there is that much money there, as to influence games staying in LR (even though we lose potential revenues every time a game is played there), then why isn't there more emphasis among these big donors in terms of fund raising to help keep LRPS football on the map? Not being a S.A., I am truly asking. One would think that if they are so motivated to keep games at WMS, they would be more motivated to help keep a more generous pipeline of developed in-state talent headed to the U of A from the LR area?

Apparently they don't care cause there is enough money in Central Ark to Fix this mess.

[ricepig]

Apparently they don't care cause there is enough money in Central Ark to Fix this mess.

So Warren Stephens is supposed to worry what is happening at Hall or PV? I guess he did, he helped bankroll ECS.

[Big Papa Satan]

As I said earlier in the thread, maybe Nutt should be contracted to revive LR HS football.

Why?  Dork destroys everything he touches.

[RedSkiesAtNightHog]

Once the lawsuit is over, which it is for the most part things will start changing for the better.

What was the lawsuit about?  I am out of state and I don't know. 

[LZH]

What was the lawsuit about?  I am out of state and I don't know. 

Desegregation/busing.  Or that's what it started out as......I don't have a clue how they've spent $80 million on that over the past 35 years, though.

[MushroomCloudHog]

It comes down to offense of philosophy. I know that Little Rock has more pure athletic talent than Warren or Greenwood. they need to open up the offenses.

[redeye]

But, I thought there was a LOT of big money in LR that the University of Arkansas would lose if they removed games from LR? If there is that much money there, as to influence games staying in LR (even though we lose potential revenues every time a game is played there), then why isn't there more emphasis among these big donors in terms of fund raising to help keep LRPS football on the map? Not being a S.A., I am truly asking. One would think that if they are so motivated to keep games at WMS, they would be more motivated to help keep a more generous pipeline of developed in-state talent headed to the U of A from the LR area?

The big money isn't interested in Little Rock public schools, or the city in general, except for how these things affect them directly.  They'd rather build their own schools that work how they see fit.  School board members were voted in power by the community, so you can't criticize one without blaming the other.

It's sad, because these are the people with the most power to create change.  It's my opinion that the general well being of most cities is a reflection of it's most powerful residents and what they have given or helped orchestrate.  By allowing the public schools to run down, both wealthy, and unweathly, LR residents are allowing the city to deteriorate from within.  It's certainly not all their fault, but it is their city.

So Warren Stephens is supposed to worry what is happening at Hall or PV? I guess he did, he helped bankroll ECS.

If Warren Stephens cares about LR, then he should care what happens to it's public schools.  I'd be willing to bet that Bill Gates cares about the public school system in Seattle and that I could find proof that he does.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Why?  Dork destroys everything he touches.

I was actually, kidding.

[hogsanity]

If Warren Stephens cares about LR, then he should care what happens to it's public schools. 

If someone really cares about a city's public schools, the LAST THING THEY SHOULD GIVE MONEY TO IS ATHLETICS. 

[DeltaBoy]

So Warren Stephens is supposed to worry what is happening at Hall or PV? I guess he did, he helped bankroll ECS.

Well if Business likes to Push testing and such and in many places they have ponied up the bucks then Stephens and his crew can do the same thing or just shut up about it altogether.

[ricepig]

Well if Business likes to Push testing and such and in many places they have ponied up the bucks then Stephens and his crew can do the same thing or just shut up about it altogether.

Stephens is complaining??  I imagine he pays as much or more in property taxes than the vast majority of LRSD patrons, he's paying his share.

[DeltaBoy]

Stephens is complaining??  I imagine he pays as much or more in property taxes than the vast majority of LRSD patrons, he's paying his share.

I did not bring Stephens into this conversion YOU DID ! I have no first hand knowledge what he thinks about this mess. But He does have the influence and resources to correct it if he wanted too.

[ricepig]

I did not bring Stephens into this conversion YOU DID ! I have no first hand knowledge what he thinks about this mess. But He does have the influence and resources to correct it if he wanted too.

I love it how people are so free and easy with other people's money.

[DeltaBoy]

I love it how people are so free and easy with other people's money.

I said if the Nutt's wanted to fix LR Football they had the money too.   I not saying they should but if they want too it is fine with me. 

[ricepig]

I said if the Nutt's wanted to fix LR Football they had the money too.   I not saying they should but if they want too it is fine with me. 

Football isn't the problem in LRSD, if the other problems were corrected, football would take care of itself.

[Cotton]

Football isn't the problem in LRSD, if the other problems were corrected, football would take care of itself.

Couldn't agree with you more Rice!

[redeye]

Football isn't the problem in LRSD, if the other problems were corrected, football would take care of itself.

I also agree with you.  However, some LR residents have more ability to change things then others do.  I'd love to think that I'm one of them, but I'm just being honest when I say that I'm not.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Stephens is complaining??  I imagine he pays as much or more in property taxes than the vast majority of LRSD patrons, he's paying his share.

As an outsider in this debate, let me just ask, isn't Stephens enough of a political heavyweight to help enact change in the LRPS and perhaps save them, if he were so motivated to do so?

There may be socio-economic issues at work here that have a lot to do with the debate and some of these issues cannot and will not ever be solved purely by an infusion of money. But an infusion of money backed by political influence can improve degraded facilities, hire better coaching staffs and restore some degree of pride to a school system that has fallen on hard times. Will a rising tide lift all boats? I think most hope that it would. Thoughts?

[ricepig]

As an outsider in this debate, let me just ask, isn't Stephens enough of a political heavyweight to help enact change in the LRPS and perhaps save them, if he were so motivated to do so?

There may be socio-economic issues at work here that have a lot to do with the debate and some of these issues cannot and will not ever be solved purely by an infusion of money. But an infusion of money backed by political influence can improve degraded facilities, hire better coaching staffs and restore some degree of pride to a school system that has fallen on hard times. Will a rising tide lift all boats? I think most hope that it would. Thoughts?

I don't think providing new facilities and uniforms will fix LRSD's problems. I'm not from LR, but my kids have played sports against several of the schools, I'm just looking from the outside. As has been said numerous times in this thread, money for the district isn't much worse than other districts, they just had to spend it on busing, and other ridiculous court mandated actions. The only ones who benefited were lawyers.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I don't think providing new facilities and uniforms will fix LRSD's problems. I'm not from LR, but my kids have played sports against several of the schools, I'm just looking from the outside. As has been said numerous times in this thread, money for the district isn't much worse than other districts, they just had to spend it on busing, and other ridiculous court mandated actions. The only ones who benefited were lawyers.

I have never been a fan of busing kids around to fit with federal standards/mandates with regard to integration, but it was and sometimes still is, a reality of life. We aren't going to change that as long as school systems receive federal money.

The thing is, I think that school systems can change not only their overall philosophy, but can enact programs that can help change the status quo, and most of that is done by concerned citizens and parents who want to enact that change. Especially those who are more prominent citizens in the community and whose influence carries more weight, those that can lead the charge of change.

One thing is certain, permanent change for the better doesn't often happen overnight and is better found in changing one step at a time, but always moving forward nonetheless. Inch by inch it is a cinch, but by the yard, it is hard.

[redeye]

I don't think providing new facilities and uniforms will fix LRSD's problems. I'm not from LR, but my kids have played sports against several of the schools, I'm just looking from the outside. As has been said numerous times in this thread, money for the district isn't much worse than other districts, they just had to spend it on busing, and other ridiculous court mandated actions. The only ones who benefited were lawyers.

I agree with this.  Money would certainly help, but a lack of money isn't the problem.

A better explanation may be that most of the people who care about having good schools for their children, don't care anything about the LRSD.  Instead, they create their own schools or send their kids elsewhere, even if it means moving away.  I think of some of them like cults, because they're attempting to create what they consider idyllic environments for their kids, rather then subject them to any differences of opinion.

However, I can't really blame them, because the schools are in such poor shape.  But if they're ever going to improve, this all has to change.

[ricepig]

I agree with this.  Money would certainly help, but a lack of money isn't the problem.

A better explanation may be that most of the people who care about having good schools for their children, don't care anything about the LRSD.  Instead, they create their own schools or send their kids elsewhere, even if it means moving away.  I think of some of them like cults, because they're attempting to create what they consider idyllic environments for their kids, rather then subject them to any differences of opinion.

However, I can't really blame them, because the schools are in such poor shape.  But if they're ever going to improve, this all has to change.

Which brings you back to the chicken or the egg? Truthfully, I'm glad it's not my problem, I imagine I'd send mine to a private school.

[three hog night]

As an outsider in this debate, let me just ask, isn't Stephens enough of a political heavyweight to help enact change in the LRPS and perhaps save them, if he were so motivated to do so?

There may be socio-economic issues at work here that have a lot to do with the debate and some of these issues cannot and will not ever be solved purely by an infusion of money. But an infusion of money backed by political influence can improve degraded facilities, hire better coaching staffs and restore some degree of pride to a school system that has fallen on hard times. Will a rising tide lift all boats? I think most hope that it would. Thoughts?

Stephens, Dillard, Ford, etc all have the ability to say, "enough is enough".   They are the ones that can drive the issue without money even.  They have the pull to influence the LRSD board and State Of Arkansas Dept of Ed.

[mhuff]

Football isn't the problem in LRSD, if the other problems were corrected, football would take care of itself.

RicePig, seems like problems started in Pine Bluff and moved over to L.R. It is a shame.... L.R. used to be a powerhouse. There are multiple problems in American society. Little Rock gang issues need to be corrected..... Well ... all over the USA. That element is dragging us all down.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Stephens, Dillard, Ford, etc all have the ability to say, "enough is enough".   They are the ones that can drive the issue without money even.  They have the pull to influence the LRSD board and State Of Arkansas Dept of Ed.

And so the question remains, why aren't they?

[redeye]

And so the question remains, why aren't they?

As citizens of the city of Little Rock, I'm not sure that question is appropriately addressed.  As business leaders of the city of Little Rock, I don't know why it wouldn't be.

According to the website for the Episcopal Collegiate School, the Stephens family created a $30 million endowment for it's financial security.  They named the campus after Jackson T. Stephens.  And, I'm not even sure that the Stephens family even lives within the Little Rock city limits, technically.  Considering their vested interest in ECS, I think you have to wonder if the Stephens family has any interest in repairing the LRSD.

Don't know about the Dillard or Ford families, but I suspect it's not much different and they all seem to have plenty of company in Little Rock.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

As citizens of the city of Little Rock, I'm not sure that question is appropriately addressed.  As business leaders of the city of Little Rock, I don't know why it wouldn't be.

According to the website for the Episcopal Collegiate School, the Stephens family created a $30 million endowment for it's financial security.  They named the campus after Jackson T. Stephens.  And, I'm not even sure that the Stephens family even lives within the Little Rock city limits, technically.  Considering their vested interest in ECS, I think you have to wonder if the Stephens family has any interest in repairing the LRSD.

Don't know about the Dillard or Ford families, but I suspect it's not much different and they all seem to have plenty of company in Little Rock.

But they should all have a vested interest in doing things that help insure a developed pipeline of talent from the LRSD to the U of A, if they are truly fans of Arkansas.

[ricepig]

But they should all have a vested interest in doing things that help insure a developed pipeline of talent from the LRSD to the U of A, if they are truly fans of Arkansas.

They give tons of money, it isn't there responsibility to finance the LRSD.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

They give tons of money, it isn't there responsibility to finance the LRSD.

Not saying that they should, but they certainly have the influence because of their money and they could apply money if they were so moved.

[redeye]

But they should all have a vested interest in doing things that help insure a developed pipeline of talent from the LRSD to the U of A, if they are truly fans of Arkansas.

I don't think you'll see them do it to develop a pipeline to the UofA.  Repairing the LRSD is a far more important objective and one that would be highly beneficial to the business community in Little Rock.  However, repairing the LRSD would also likely increase the number of high caliber athletes coming out of Little Rock, imo.

They give tons of money, it isn't there responsibility to finance the LRSD.

It most certainly is not.  For the most part, they have no more responsibility then any other LR citizen.  The only difference is that they have more power and influence, and as leaders within the city, people naturally look to them for guidance.  In other words, people will listen to them, while ignoring everyday Joe's like myself.

The only question is whether any of these leaders have any interest?  Many seem heavily vested in LR private schools, but improving public schools is probably a high priority for the Chamber of Commerce in every city.  After all, how many companies want to locate somewhere that has a terrible public school system?

Not sure about the Dillard's and Ford's, but I know the Stephens are members of the LR COC.

[olivebranchhog]

They give tons of money, it isn't there responsibility to finance the LRSD.

I agree with your statement. 

However, the fact is, Central Arkansas teachers/coaches make less than they would in every state that borders Arkansas.  This is not counting private schools. The area isn't one that screams "bring your family." The pay isn't enough to live comfortably. Then, on top of everything, you have a social acceptance of sub-standard living in Central Arkansas.  The money from the lawsuit was misappropriated.  That's very clear now.  The teachers and coaches at the public schools are there collecting checks and having to play the role of parent/mentor because a lot of the LR kids are from broken families. It's a self perpetuating cycle that can't be solved by throwing more money into the pot. 

I think it's a product of garbage politicians,  negligent parenting, low pay scales, and greedy members of the school system.  LR needs a government that actually cares about these things.  That's where it all stars. If my kid was a talented player, he wouldn't see a second in LR area public schools. This is from someone that attended school in Rose City, Jacksonville,  and the Memphis area.  LR was the worst.... narrowly worse than Memphis

[Shoat61]

In an article today about a LR Central and West Memphis baseball game it mentioned that the LRCH pitcher was going to Vanderbilt and a player on the West Memphis team was going to Ole Miss.  The UofA has done a pretty poor job of recruiting in Central and Eastern Arkansas lately.  The rise of ASU and the new found interest in these areas by Ole Miss, Auburn and Alabama have cut into the old rule of the top players automatically going to the UofA.

[ricepig]

In an article today about a LR Central and West Memphis baseball game it mentioned that the LRCH pitcher was going to Vanderbilt and a player on the West Memphis team was going to Ole Miss.  The UofA has done a pretty poor job of recruiting in Central and Eastern Arkansas lately.  The rise of ASU and the new found interest in these areas by Ole Miss, Auburn and Alabama have cut into the old rule of the top players automatically going to the UofA.

Uh, no. Abraham's family went to Vanderbilt, so there's that, plus I don't know if we offered either a scholarship. Fenter is just a Jr and most think he'll go pro instead of college, also, his sister plays on the softball team at OM.

[HognotinMemphis]

In an article today about a LR Central and West Memphis baseball game it mentioned that the LRCH pitcher was going to Vanderbilt and a player on the West Memphis team was going to Ole Miss.  The UofA has done a pretty poor job of recruiting in Central and Eastern Arkansas lately.  The rise of ASU and the new found interest in these areas by Ole Miss, Auburn and Alabama have cut into the old rule of the top players automatically going to the UofA.

How many players over past decade has the U of A and the state lost to Auburn, TN, OU, Okla St, et al? And I am talking only football.

[wholehog92]

The horse is out of the barn in LR.  HS football is just a symptom of the social problems in LR.  Kids will go where they feel valued.  No investment for years on end means no value.  The kids who could went to where they were valued.  What is left is kids from families that couldn't or wouldn't leave.  Speaking generally, that means they haven't specialized in making great decisions.  What you have left is poor kids from families that haven't made great decisions with no one around them to draw knowledge from on a peer to peer basis.  They have no resources to invest now and even if they did, they are the equivalent of a company that has fired their knowledge base. 

What you have now is a county that the population is on a decline.  It will take drastic measures to repair the area and change that.  If left to natural path, it will take the population getting small enough that land values get so low entrepreneurs can come in and revitalize districts at a time.  That will take decades to get to that point and decades to recover from it.

[Rey Pygsterio]

Germans bomb Scott Cain.

[DeltaBoy]

Momma's not pushing those boys to play football as a way out of the Hood.