Arkansas to test new helmets

[LAGNAF]

I was not aware that we were on board the test program.

http://edge.si.com/edge/2014/04/03/riddells-new-speedflex-helmet?eref=sihp

[3kgthog]

They can try whatever they want. It still won't prevent the brain from rattling around inside the skull during a hard impact.

[Pigsknuckles]

Seems to be a responsible attempt address the head injury issue, but it is just a matter of time until helmet telemetry is used to possibly bench players, maybe even mid game, for what data perceives as an immediate threat to safety. Just playing devils advocate here. This technology does open up several possibilities worth discussion.

[warriorlion]

They can try whatever they want. It still won't prevent the brain from rattling around inside the skull during a hard impact.

Exactly right: helmets, bike, motorcycle, football, baseball helmets are designed to prevent skull fractures.  None can prevent the brain from sloshing around with impacts.

[Hog Fan...DOH!]

They can try whatever they want. It still won't prevent the brain from rattling around inside the skull during a hard impact.

Hmm... I'm not a scientist, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  However, it would seem to me that these new helmets would act similarly to the crumple zone in your vehicle.  In a crumple zone, the vehicle is designed to absorb and distribute energy from impact- the result being that more of the impact energy is channeled into the vehicle itself rather than to the driver/passenger. 

These new helmets appear designed to bend and expand- perhaps better distributing the energy from impact than the old helmets.  I'm sure they're not 100% safe, but they're probably better.  For about the same money, don't you want better?

[SquidBilly]

So what happens if the test is a failure?  It will suck to find out the helmets don't work as a kid is being carried off on a stretcher.

[atekido]

They can try whatever they want. It still won't prevent the brain from rattling around inside the skull during a hard impact.

Yep..  Nothing can stop the momentum inside the skull.. Minus taking away pads..  you take away pads and they wont be as inclined to hit each other as hard or have head contact as much.

[PorkRinds]

So what happens if the test is a failure?  It will suck to find out the helmets don't work as a kid is being carried off on a stretcher.

I don't think there's any chance they will CAUSE an issue.  They just might not help as much as they thought.  I'm sure they've been tested to the point of knowing they aren't dangerous...

[Inhogswetrust]

So what happens if the test is a failure?  It will suck to find out the helmets don't work as a kid is being carried off on a stretcher.

Would you stop testing for a cancer cure just because a test might fail? Science is all about testing and retesting.

[Porcius Magnus]

They can try whatever they want. It still won't prevent the brain from rattling around inside the skull during a hard impact.

Suppose there was a little testing done before they started shipping these helmets out?

[Mike Irwin]

 

Yep..  Nothing can stop the momentum inside the skull..

That makes no sense. If nothing can stop momentum then momentum never stops.

The issue is how quickly momentum is stopped. If I run full speed into a brick wall I'm going to hurt myself because I'm going from full speed to a dead stop instantly. If I run into a padded wall that padding allows my body to go from full speed to a stop through a measured distance which greatly reduces my chance of getting injured.

It would seem to me that the real answer is to produce soft outer shell helmets. Padding on the inside and outside. Two helmets like that colliding are going to produce less force than hard shell helmet to helmet contact.

[Psychohog]

Did you GNAF at GTAHAH or Goat Roast?

[code red]

That makes no sense. If nothing can stop momentum then momentum never stops.

The issue is how quickly momentum is stopped. If I run full speed into a brick wall I'm going to hurt myself because I'm going from full speed to a dead stop instantly. If I run into a padded wall that padding allows my body to go from full speed to a stop through a measured distance which greatly reduces my chance of getting injured.

It would seem to me that the real answer is to produce soft outer shell helmets. Padding on the inside and outside. Two helmets like that colliding are going to produce less force than hard shell helmet to helmet contact.

Exactly..the deceleration needs to be gradual.  By doing this the force applied by the brain to the skull will decrease.  It will not prevent a concussion, true. But, it will decrease the severity.

[WashUhog6]

I'm not sure what's funnier: the fact that a couple of you think it's impossible for a helmet design to better distribute the energy from a collision to prevent head injuries, or the fact that it doesn't occur to you that people much smarter would have already decided the same thing if it were true.

[reddogjcss]

Great to see something being done to improve safety for the guys and I'm glad the Razorbacks are doing there part! WPS

[Mike Irwin]

I'm not sure what's funnier: the fact that a couple of you think it's impossible for a helmet design to better distribute the energy from a collision to prevent head injuries, or the fact that it doesn't occur to you that people much smarter would have already decided the same thing if it were true.

The soft outer shell concept is not new. They currently have pullover padding that goes over the outside of a helmet. It looks sort of like a giant grenade. Common sense dictates it would be safer to make all helmets with a soft outer shell. But it would look uncool. Most fans would hate it.

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[12247]

I believe Mike Erwin is 100 percent correct.  An inch of soft rubber all around the outside of the helmets would provide 2 inches of impact cushion and I suspect lesson the damage by at least 50 percent.  It would take some getting used to by the players but the safety measure I believe would be there. 

I seriously doubt the cost of the new helmets will be ABOUT THE SAME AS WE PAY FOR THOSE USED NOW.  I further suggest the new helmets are being built to make some huge profits.  It would cost nearly nothing to put the soft rubber on the current type helmets and that is likely why it hasn't been done yet.  NO REAL PROFIT.

[doberman]

Just a couple more links about it....if interested.  The Razorbacks are mentioned in this article. 

    http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/3/28/5547618/riddell-speedflex-helmets-insite-technology


    http://t.co/zBj8kRZRBV

 

     

[Hog Fan...DOH!]

I believe Mike Erwin is 100 percent correct.  An inch of soft rubber all around the outside of the helmets would provide 2 inches of impact cushion and I suspect lesson the damage by at least 50 percent.  It would take some getting used to by the players but the safety measure I believe would be there. 

I seriously doubt the cost of the new helmets will be ABOUT THE SAME AS WE PAY FOR THOSE USED NOW.  I further suggest the new helmets are being built to make some huge profits.  It would cost nearly nothing to put the soft rubber on the current type helmets and that is likely why it hasn't been done yet.  NO REAL PROFIT.

First of all, the cost of the helmet means nothing in comparison to player safety. If the helmet is safer, it's worth every penny.

If the new helmet costs, say, $200 more than the old style... that's not a lot more money.  And if the helmets become mainstream and more available, I suspect the price would be very similar comparatively to an older design.

An ER trip and overnight stay in the hospital for observation will run you about $11,000.  If the new design is truly more effective, I'm sure the reduction in co-insurance payments would make up the difference in a hurry. 

This whole thread is nuts.

[Cotton]

I think it's pretty awesome we're one of the testing schools!  :razorback:

[Mike Irwin]

First of all, the cost of the helmet means nothing in comparison to player safety. If the helmet is safer, it's worth every penny.

If the new helmet costs, say, $200 more than the old style... that's not a lot more money.  And if the helmets become mainstream and more available, I suspect the price would be very similar comparatively to an older design.

An ER trip and overnight stay in the hospital for observation will run you about $11,000.  If the new design is truly more effective, I'm sure the reduction in co-insurance payments would make up the difference in a hurry. 

This whole thread is nuts.

There's nothing wrong with the thread and I think you missed the point of his response.

Yes, the new helmets will be safer and yes that's important. But they will also be more expensive. If safety were the top consideration players would be wearing helmets the size of those things astronauts wore on the moon and they would made of the same material used to pad roll bars in auto racing. In other words players would look like their heads were inside of a giant rubber ball.

That look would be unacceptable. So what we get is a futuristic hard outershell helmet that looks like something out of a sci fi movie. It's safer than previous designs and it looks really cool and it will be really expensive.

An even safer and cheaper design could be easily manufactured but it would look like crap. Fans and players alike would hate it.

So we get the expensive but cool sci fi stuff.

[Hog Fan...DOH!]

There's nothing wrong with the thread and I think you missed the point of his response.

Yes, the new helmets will be safer and yes that's important. But they will also be more expensive. If safety were the top consideration players would be wearing helmets the size of those things astronauts wore on the moon and they would made of the same material used to pad roll bars in auto racing. In other words players would look like their heads were inside of a giant rubber ball.

That look would be unacceptable. So what we get is a futuristic hard outershell helmet that looks like something out of a sci fi movie. It's safe and it looks really cool and it will be really expensive.

A safer and cheaper design could be easily manufactured but it would look like crap. Fans and players alike would hate it.

So we get the expensive but cool sci fi stuff.

Mike, I didn't miss his point.  I take issue with the statement that these helmets were designed for profit sake.  I also take issue with those that say, "can't fix it, why try?"  That's really what I think is nuts.  The world fixes problems with technology and research all the time.

In the link provided by someone above, helmets today cost anywhere between $200 to $375.  I believe the helmet worn by the Hogs last year cost about $265.  Maybe the team has different styles, too.  I don't know.  My point is, it's worth an extra cost if these things are really a lot safer.  And there might not be much extra expense at all if you consider the cost benefit of safety. 

That being said, if these things cost double the current most expensive helmet- not enough teams (high school really) will buy them.  Riddell isn't stupid.

And I don't know anything about the hand grenade helmet, but it does look like crap, and it also looks like it would tear apart.  Not only do these things have to be safe, they also have to survive the Jadeveon Clowney's of the world flying around at 25 mph... not just once, but for about 100 snaps a game, 12 to 20 games a year.  Probably for multiple years. I don't think they buy a new batch of helmets every single year.   

So yes, there is some cost/benefit analysis here, and also some serious marketing going on.  If Riddell wants to continue to make any profit at all, its product simply has to get safer and the company is respond to market trends. 

[code red]

I believe Mike Erwin is 100 percent correct.  An inch of soft rubber all around the outside of the helmets would provide 2 inches of impact cushion and I suspect lesson the damage by at least 50 percent.  It would take some getting used to by the players but the safety measure I believe would be there. 

I seriously doubt the cost of the new helmets will be ABOUT THE SAME AS WE PAY FOR THOSE USED NOW.  I further suggest the new helmets are being built to make some huge profits.  It would cost nearly nothing to put the soft rubber on the current type helmets and that is likely why it hasn't been done yet.  NO REAL PROFIT.

It would also insulate and cook your brain.

[SpineHog]

All these options (padded & otherwise) may be a step in the right direction in terms of impact reduction. However, many of the more severe impacts in the brain occur by 'shearing' forces on the brain axons with sharp velocity changes during a tackle, meaning no actual head impact is necessary. Helmets need to be improved, but there's no way to make the sport really safe as the athletes all get bigger & faster.

[Pigsknuckles]

Just a couple more links about it....if interested.  The Razorbacks are mentioned in this article. 

    http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/3/28/5547618/riddell-speedflex-helmets-insite-technology


    http://t.co/zBj8kRZRBV

 

     

Nice information. I posted earlier in this thread concerning "in game" sideline data and telemetry use. The article in your first link partially addresses this, though it really doesn't speculate just how a staff might choose to respond to the data. I do think this will eventually become an issue. I can foresee rules that would require a staff to react and respond, in real time, to player impact data that falls outside of approved parameters. This could be the real elephant in the room as far as the use of the new equipment.

[Suidae Suis Scrofa]

I can foresee rules that would require a staff to react and respond, in real time, to player impact data that falls outside of approved parameters.

I can believe that the lawyers will make this so.  Imagine if a college had information, on the side line and in real time, that a specific player took a potentially harmful hit to the head on the last play and the coach doesn't pull the kid.  Let's say the next day the kid isn't right and turns out he has a concussion - one of many and he eventually can't play any more, or worse has real medical problems.  How long until a lawyer decides that there's some easy money to make here going after the school for not acting on the information they had at their fingertips?

-phil

[secneahog]

They can try whatever they want. It still won't prevent the brain from rattling around inside the skull during a hard impact.

I think it's going to help knowing how hard the hit was. Did the kid get concussed . You'll never be able to take hard hits away from the brain but with this we can understand if we're playing a kid concussed.

[secneahog]

There's nothing wrong with the thread and I think you missed the point of his response.

Yes, the new helmets will be safer and yes that's important. But they will also be more expensive. If safety were the top consideration players would be wearing helmets the size of those things astronauts wore on the moon and they would made of the same material used to pad roll bars in auto racing. In other words players would look like their heads were inside of a giant rubber ball.

That look would be unacceptable. So what we get is a futuristic hard outershell helmet that looks like something out of a sci fi movie. It's safer than previous designs and it looks really cool and it will be really expensive.

An even safer and cheaper design could be easily manufactured but it would look like crap. Fans and players alike would hate it.

So we get the expensive but cool sci fi stuff.

Good thing our university can afford the new helmets, but I don't know if auburn can.

[secneahog]

That makes no sense. If nothing can stop momentum then momentum never stops.

The issue is how quickly momentum is stopped. If I run full speed into a brick wall I'm going to hurt myself because I'm going from full speed to a dead stop instantly. If I run into a padded wall that padding allows my body to go from full speed to a stop through a measured distance which greatly reduces my chance of getting injured.

It would seem to me that the real answer is to produce soft outer shell helmets. Padding on the inside and outside. Two helmets like that colliding are going to produce less force than hard shell helmet to helmet contact.

+1

[Mike Irwin]

It would also insulate and cook your brain.

Those soft shell covers are used in practice by a lot of schools for players who've had concussions. I've never read anywhere about a cooked brain problem.

[jesterzzn]

Not a single nerf joke?  For shame.