Better team: 2003 LR Central or 2005 Springdale

[Sweet Feet]

Its a hard one. My vote is 2003 LRCH though. More athletic and physical. What is your opinion?

[uncle bubs]

I went to Springdale in 05, it was like a circus. Those boys were Arkansas celebrities.

[hollywood hog]

Springdale

[Hogs34]

Easily central, not to mention 04 central team beat springdale head to head in the playoffs.

[hardtimes79]

Central..wouldve killed them upfront.  For those two years they were loaded with talent.

[Mike Irwin]

Easily central, not to mention 04 central team beat springdale head to head in the playoffs.

Central beat Springdale's '04 team. There was no comparison between Springdale in 04 and 05.

[pigture perfect]

I believe Central was the better team. Just a little more physical.

[Henry Hogsome]

2004 LRC Team by far.

[Big Papa Satan]

Central.  Springdale's O-line would've been given fits.

[bigred223]

Springdales greatness stemmed from a superior scheme for the most part. Damian Williams was a man among boys though. Central teams had more overall talent.

[Inhogswetrust]

Its a hard one. My vote is 2003 LRCH though. More athletic and physical. What is your opinion?

Slow news time on the ridge I guess.

[root_hawg]

Central had more upfront but couldn't have kept up with the pace, Springdale 2 tds

[immahog]

2004 LRC Team by far.

THIS they did not have a weekness I played against the 03-04 TEAM  ...fred bledsoe antwain robinson kevin thorton mickey dean stewart franks freddie fairchild brad gordon ...the list goes ......loaded

[immahog]

Central had more upfront but couldn't have kept up with the pace, Springdale 2 tds

I laugh at this .....I played for Hall at that time  (not ashamed) That team was one of the best in the country an far better than any team in the state

[Inhogswetrust]

Central had more upfront but couldn't have kept up with the pace, Springdale 2 tds

It's funny that people assume because one team plays at a faster pace they automatically have a certain points amount advantage.

[Killean]

Euless Trinity vs. Shiloh tells you everything you need to know about what happens when a finesse team runs up against a team that can beat them in the trenches.


LR Central would have won the game easily.

[Sweet Feet]

Slow news time on the ridge I guess.

....i dont get it. But i take it you love me since youve been on my post lately 

[Reesedogg000]

Springdale would win that game 42-31

[Mike Irwin]

Euless Trinity vs. Shiloh tells you everything you need to know about what happens when a finesse team runs up against a team that can beat them in the trenches.


LR Central would have won the game easily.

It tells me nothing other than the fact that Shiloh was completely nuts for thinking it could compete with one of the best teams in Texas. There is no comparison between any team Shiloh Christian ever had and Springdale 05.

[hvsupastar]

What's more amazing to me is there is only one guy that had a decent college career out of both of those teams... I'd say Gus coaching keeps it close but in the end LRC was just overall better

[hardtimes79]

What's more amazing to me is there is only one guy that had a decent college career out of both of those teams... I'd say Gus coaching keeps it close but in the end LRC was just overall better

Some of the central kids did ok for themselves on lower levels.  That springdale team was good, but central would've manhandled them up front an layed the wood when they caught a pass.

[razorsharp94]

When Springdale lost to Central did Mustain not get hurt before the first half was over?

[hardtimes79]

When Springdale lost to Central did Mustain not get hurt before the first half was over?

They beat them two years in a row.  The second time they broke his arm on a play early in the game.  Those central teams were really fast and physical.

[Hogs34]

When Springdale lost to Central did Mustain not get hurt before the first half was over?

Mustain did get hurt, but he got picked off twice before he went out.

[Dark Helmet Hog]

What's more amazing to me is there is only one guy that had a decent college career out of both of those teams... I'd say Gus coaching keeps it close but in the end LRC was just overall better

Zack Pianalto says "hi". He did well at North Carolina under Butch Davis before playing with the Carolina Panthers in the NFL. So that's two NFL players from the 05 Springdale team anyway.

I would like to compare the total number of kids that signed D-1 from both teams. I just don't have all the numbers.

[Dark Helmet Hog]

Some of the central kids did ok for themselves on lower levels.  That springdale team was good, but central would've manhandled them up front an layed the wood when they caught a pass.

Springdale had a lot more kids than just the "Springdale 5" sign with schools as well. In fact, the ranked Tulsa team that Petrino beat his first year had a few.

[Dark Helmet Hog]

They beat them two years in a row.  The second time they broke his arm on a play early in the game.  Those central teams were really fast and physical.

I don't believe Mustain was the starter for varsity in 2003. He started on the Sophomore team. That team was undefeated.

[Dark Helmet Hog]

Central beat Springdale's '04 team. There was no comparison between Springdale in 04 and 05.

Agee. Teenage kids change a lot from year to year, and one year of growth and maturity can make a huge difference. Also, the Springdale Juniors in '05 had more talent than the Seniors from '04. IMHO.

I watched the '04 game between Central and Springdale. I also watched what '05 Springdale did to Jenks and Evangel. I'm not going to say Springdale would have dominated the '04 Central team, but it would have been a completely different game than the year before.

[Mike Irwin]

I don't believe Mustain was the starter for varsity in 2003. He started on the Sophomore team. That team was undefeated.

I don't recall a sophomore team but Mustain did not play for SHS in 03.

[Mike Irwin]

Mustain did get hurt, but he got picked off twice before he went out.

Malzahn spent the following spring making sure that didn't happen again. He ran plays in practice where the O-Line did not block for Mustain. He either dumped the ball quickly or he got sacked. He didn't get sacked. That's when I knew how good they were going to be the following season.

Football is about knowing your weaknesses and correcting them. Nobody works harder than Malzahn. Nobody corrects problems better than Malzahn. Taking Auburn from the crap team they were in 2012 to the national championship game in 2013 is proof of that.

[PHAHog357]

Who did 05 SHS play? Jenks lost first round in playoffs as did Evangel. Central 03 beat teams with D-1 talent. I know Mike Irwin and the NWA crew felt MM was the next Joe Montana and that team could beat anybody but they played NOBODY!

[hardtimes79]

Who did 05 SHS play? Jenks lost first round in playoffs as did Evangel. Central 03 beat teams with D-1 talent. I know Mike Irwin and the NWA crew felt MM was the next Joe Montana and that team could beat anybody but they played NOBODY!

I second that.  Was a down year overall.  They mercy ruled a lot of teams the year before also, but central matched up really well because of their team speed and they brought the wood when they got there.

[SouthSide Johnny]

Who did 05 SHS play? Jenks lost first round in playoffs as did Evangel. Central 03 beat teams with D-1 talent. I know Mike Irwin and the NWA crew felt MM was the next Joe Montana and that team could beat anybody but they played NOBODY!

Jenks was upset in the first round by Sapulpa that year but the only game they lost in the regular season was to Sprindale  they also beat Union that year (State Champs) and had 6 sign with major D1 schools that year and another 6 with smaller schools. Evangel won State that year as they did in 04 and 06!

[Dark Helmet Hog]

I don't recall a sophomore team but Mustain did not play for SHS in 03.

Springdale has had up to three teams in the past: sophomores, JV, and Varsity. The sophomores used to play on Monday nights. I'm not sure what is done currently.

[Mike Irwin]

Jenks was upset in the first round by Sapulpa that year but the only game they lost in the regular season was to Sprindale  they also beat Union that year (State Champs) and had 6 sign with major D1 schools that year and another 6 with smaller schools. Evangel won State that year as they did in 04 and 06!

Don't confuse this argument with the facts. It's better to say that Springdale played nobody. Also the USA today poll had to be worthless. They had Springdale at No. 3 nationally at the end of the season. Surely they weren't that good because they didn't play anybody.

[yraciv]

Obviously this is going to turn into a Northwest Arkansas vs Central Arkansas bias. Fans of the hurry up vs. the pro style.  I'm going to argue for Springdale here because that is the team I'm more familiar with, but they were both phenomenal teams. First, you've got to give Springdale the coaching edge.  Bernie Cox was a fine AR high school coach, but come on this is a runaway.  Second, you've got give Springdale the edge on special teams.  I don't even know who Central's kicker/return man would have been, but it doesn't matter when Tejada is making you start every drive at the 20 and can boot 50 yard FG, a future pro returning kicks, and Mustain wasn't too shabby booming punts either. And third, the obvious advantage was Springdale at QB.  Yes Clark Irwin did a valuable job walking on with the Hogs, but Mustain for all his faults was a legitimate Division 1 QB and was still getting paid to throw the pigskin as recently as last month.

Now's where I just tout Springdale's talent and accomplishment.  I know Central had Bledsoe, Fairchild, Robinson, and Thornton but am not familiar with their complimentary pieces enough to compare.  Springdale went 14-0, and mercy ruled at least 12 of them. Often those mercy rules came in the first half, so you rarely saw the starters in the 2nd half.  They beat an undefeated West Memphis team 54-20 in the state championship. They beat a state champion Evangel team 35-7. They beat Jenks 44-0, who only lost one other game all season. The Jenks team had 3 or 4 on their defense that signed with D1 schools, and an OL that went to OU and onto the NFL.  The Evangel team had our very own Ramon Broadway, and 6 or 7 others that signed to play D1.

And now to the way of Springdale talent.  People seem to forget Springdale had a pretty good line, and even if you did get past it Mustain got the ball out too quick to allow sacks.  Bartley Webb signed with Notre Dame, Zack Pianalto, future NFL TE, was pretty much solely used as a blocker, and Ben Cleveland was a pretty good blocker as well.  Injuries are what killed both of their careers.  You also had an All State RB in Clinkscales that went on to play at UCA.  Andrew Norman never amounted to much in college, but he had 4.5 speed and was always open.  And of course you have Mustain, an AFL QB, throwing to a future NFL WR in Damian Williams. And Damian did a little of everything, averaging some 14 yards a carry. And in addition, Mustain's backup Jeremy Paxton played Division 2 ball.

Now to the defense, which was the most underrated thing about the squad.  Gus would play guys both ways, so you had some serious talent on the defensive side as well.  Damian would line up at Safety, and they had another good all conference one in Drew Pianalto. They had a lockdown CB in Russ Greenlee, and another pretty good All Conference one in Brandon Ingram. And a 3rd, Eric Jones went on to play at Army. Their LB core was really good with Pianalto, Jamie Jones who went on to play at MS State, and an all conference SR in Chase Davis. They were led up front by an all state DL in Aaron Finch.  They had a lot of good HS SR that may have not had the measurables for college ball, but were players.

They also had some players who went on to success, but I'm not as familiar with their role on the 2005 teams.  Jake Duron who was 6'4, 300+ went on to play at Missouri State and played briefly with the NY Jets.  Brooks Reimer was just a SO, but he moved over to Har-Ber and had a great HS career and walked on with the Hogs.

[impact]

Don't confuse this argument with the facts. It's better to say that Springdale played nobody. Also the USA today poll had to be worthless. They had Springdale at No. 3 nationally at the end of the season. Surely they weren't that good because they didn't play anybody.

And the polls had Alabama number 1 until Auburn beat them on missed field goal returned for a TD. A fluke you may never see again in your lifetime.

Central would have physically punked all of those prima donnas except for Damian Williams including prima donna number 1 Gus Malzahn.

[impact]

Obviously this is going to turn into a Northwest Arkansas vs Central Arkansas bias. Fans of the hurry up vs. the pro style.  I'm going to argue for Springdale here because that is the team I'm more familiar with, but they were both phenomenal teams. First, you've got to give Springdale the coaching edge.  Bernie Cox was a fine AR high school coach, but come on this is a runaway.  Second, you've got give Springdale the edge on special teams.  I don't even know who Central's kicker/return man would have been, but it doesn't matter when Tejada is making you start every drive at the 20 and can boot 50 yard FG, a future pro returning kicks, and Mustain wasn't too shabby booming punts either. And third, the obvious advantage was Springdale at QB.  Yes Clark Irwin did a valuable job walking on with the Hogs, but Mustain for all his faults was a legitimate Division 1 QB and was still getting paid to throw the pigskin as recently as last month.

Now's where I just tout Springdale's talent and accomplishment.  I know Central had Bledsoe, Fairchild, Robinson, and Thornton but am not familiar with their complimentary pieces enough to compare.  Springdale went 14-0, and mercy ruled at least 12 of them. Often those mercy rules came in the first half, so you rarely saw the starters in the 2nd half.  They beat an undefeated West Memphis team 54-20 in the state championship. They beat a state champion Evangel team 35-7. They beat Jenks 44-0, who only lost one other game all season. The Jenks team had 3 or 4 on their defense that signed with D1 schools, and an OL that went to OU and onto the NFL.  The Evangel team had our very own Ramon Broadway, and 6 or 7 others that signed to play D1.

And now to the way of Springdale talent.  People seem to forget Springdale had a pretty good line, and even if you did get past it Mustain got the ball out too quick to allow sacks.  Bartley Webb signed with Notre Dame, Zack Pianalto, future NFL TE, was pretty much solely used as a blocker, and Ben Cleveland was a pretty good blocker as well.  Injuries are what killed both of their careers.  You also had an All State RB in Clinkscales that went on to play at UCA.  Andrew Norman never amounted to much in college, but he had 4.5 speed and was always open.  And of course you have Mustain, an AFL QB, throwing to a future NFL WR in Damian Williams. And Damian did a little of everything, averaging some 14 yards a carry. And in addition, Mustain's backup Jeremy Paxton played Division 2 ball.

Now to the defense, which was the most underrated thing about the squad.  Gus would play guys both ways, so you had some serious talent on the defensive side as well.  Damian would line up at Safety, and they had another good all conference one in Drew Pianalto. They had a lockdown CB in Russ Greenlee, and another pretty good All Conference one in Brandon Ingram. And a 3rd, Eric Jones went on to play at Army. Their LB core was really good with Pianalto, Jamie Jones who went on to play at MS State, and an all conference SR in Chase Davis. They were led up front by an all state DL in Aaron Finch.  They had a lot of good HS SR that may have not had the measurables for college ball, but were players.

They also had some players who went on to success, but I'm not as familiar with their role on the 2005 teams.  Jake Duron who was 6'4, 300+ went on to play at Missouri State and played briefly with the NY Jets.  Brooks Reimer was just a SO, but he moved over to Har-Ber and had a great HS career and walked on with the Hogs.

WOW

Admit in a post that you dont know much about LR Central's team but because it is a TLDR post it must be true.

[SouthSide Johnny]

Don't confuse this argument with the facts. It's better to say that Springdale played nobody. Also the USA today poll had to be worthless. They had Springdale at No. 3 nationally at the end of the season. Surely they weren't that good because they didn't play anybody.

Amazing that people (even tho they have internet) don't research facts before they post stupidity.  I was at most of the Springdale games that year including the Jenks and Evangel games, get past the the hate and agendas they where along with some of the Central and Pine Bluff (Shabazz)teams certainly one of the best Arkansas ever produced and would represent nationally! 

Shabazz had size, speed, vision and quickness but his best was following his blocks seeing the daylight, stop, cut, burst and gone!

[hardtimes79]

That first central championship team went games without giving up a Td.  They were absolutely nasty and would have caused springdale serious problems upfront.  Panning out on the college level isnt just about talent, but a ton of other variables.  We all know Usa today rankings mean didley squat considering how euless destroyed shiloh and then Im pretty sure they didn't even win state that year.

[PurpleBullHog]

I don't know much about that Central team, but I was at the 05 Fayetteville-Springdale game.  It was the last year before Springdale split.  It was a circus.  They laid the wood to Fayetteville.  Incredible team. 

[Hog_Fink]

I don't know much about that Central team, but I was at the 05 Fayetteville-Springdale game.  It was the last year before Springdale split.  It was a circus.  They laid the wood to Fayetteville.  Incredible team.

i played at Fayetteville. we played Central in 04 & Springdale, of course in 05
Never seen a team put up points more effortlessly & as quick as Springdale,
but i think Central definitely had better athletes in 03-04. I give the nod to Springdale just because Malzahn and his schemes.

[Sweet Feet]

Though they went on to win 49-14, they were only beating catholic 21-14 late in the 2nd half b4 springdale randomly exploded. If catholic held them in check that long, i can imagine central would have handled them similar to the matchups between the two.

[Mike Irwin]

Though they went on to win 49-14, they were only beating catholic 21-14 late in the 2nd half b4 springdale randomly exploded. If catholic held them in check that long, i can imagine central would have handled them similar to the matchups between the two.

Malzhan had a lot of respect for that Catholic team going into the game. He later told me that he used to first half to probe their defense. He'd had a hard time figuring them out looking at video the week before. If you've got Malzahn stumped you've done something.

Once they got into the halftime dressing room Malzahn reformulated his game plan and the game was a total mismatch from that point on. There was nothing random about what Springdale did in the second half.

[DeltaBoy]

03 Central would have put the hurt on 05 Springdale just like  Boonville , Rison and Euless Trinity did to USC over the past 15 or so years.

[Mike Irwin]

03 Central would have put the hurt on 05 Springdale just like  Boonville , Rison and Euless Trinity did to USC over the past 15 or so years.

You people are typecasting a team you clearly know nothing about.

Nolan Richardson had a reputation for beating teams will full court pressure. Steal the ball and dunk it. If you turned it into a halfcourt game you had a good chance of beating him.

However, his national championship team could play that way but they could also beat you in a half court game. That's why they won it all.

Springdale 04 was all about Malzahn's HUNH offense. However Springdale 05 had it all. They could throw it or run it. Throw under you or over you. Run by you or over you. They also had one hell of a defense.

It is nonsense to suggest that Springdale 05 was a system team and a finesse team.

[Dark Helmet Hog]

Comparing Springdale to anything Shiloh would be a mistake as well.

[hvsupastar]

Mike Irwin seems to be taking this personal.

I don't think it's a matter of saying Springdale was finesse, just more of the fact they couldn't match physicality in the trenches and win that ball game.

[HawgNthaWater]

Haven't seen it mentioned but FS Southside won State in 2003 so it's a moot point in my book. Go Rebs!

[(notOM)Rebel123]

03 Central would have put the hurt on 05 Springdale just like  Boonville , Rison and Euless Trinity did to USC over the past 15 or so years.

Stupid comparison.