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Some people don't want to recognize our 1964 title.

Started by Ben, March 25, 2014, 09:30:54 pm

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Albert Einswine

Quote from: cosmodrum on March 26, 2014, 09:34:44 am
Yes, we did. It's unfortunate that we got screwed over.


The AP and UPI aren't the sole arbiters of who the National Champion is. Bama also displays their Grantland Rice FWAA national championship trophies in the years they were awarded it.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

cosmodrum

Quote from: Albert Einswine on March 26, 2014, 10:00:52 am

The AP and UPI aren't the sole arbiters of who the National Champion is. Bama also displays their Grantland Rice FWAA national championship trophies in the years they were awarded it.

That's because Bama sucks a butt.
Go away, batin'

 

Ragnar Hogbrok

Quote from: uams1989 on March 26, 2014, 07:59:41 am
No Wiregrass Trophies for us in a little over a year. How about you?

The Wiregrass region doesn't even give us credit for a NC for finishing the complete season AND bowl game undefeated.

I lived in Enterprise for a few years, by the by.
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." ― H.L. Mencken

Hogville prediction formula:

1.  Insert bad news prediction. A loss, a recruit going elsewhere, a coach leaving, etc.
2.  Tag "hope I'm wrong," on the end.
3a.  Enjoy a correct prediction.
3b.  Act like you're relieved you're wrong and celebrate with everyone else.

GTOWNHOG

Quote from: uams1989 on March 26, 2014, 05:16:28 am
Yes it is...

See my avatar.

So, we AGREE!!!  Arkansas was the UNDEFEATED 1964 National Champion and Alabama was the 10-1 AP/UPI National Champion with a loss to Texas, a team that Arkansas had already beaten.   Cool......  :razorback:
Good luck to ALL of our Razorback teams!!

DLUXHOG

Quote from: Ben on March 25, 2014, 10:17:43 pm
We had 2 losses and a tie. There were mulitple 1 loss teams ahead

I think we only lost to Texas, just barely.   Everyone else we beat by double digits except for A&M and Tech and we won by 6 & 3 points respectively....   Correct me if I'm wrong...   Epic season with and epic bowl game to cap it off.... (remember the season before the Orange Bowl was the 77' season... we were 11-1... we were 9-2-1 in the 78' season after whipping the tar out of #2 ranked OU in Jan. 78')
"Don't go in anyplace you'd be ashamed to die in..."
(you might get this someday)

EastexHawg

Quote from: DLUXHOG on March 26, 2014, 10:42:16 am
I think we only lost to Texas, just barely.   Everyone else we beat by double digits except for A&M and Tech and we won by 6 & 3 points respectively....   Correct me if I'm wrong...   Epic season with and epic bowl game to cap it off.... (remember the season before the Orange Bowl was the 77' season... we were 11-1... we were 9-2-1 in the 78' season after whipping the tar out of #2 ranked OU in Jan. 78')

We lost one game that season, by four points, to the number one team in the nation.  We led 9-6 with less than five minutes to go.  Notre Dame lost to a 5-6 Ole Miss squad.

However...any time you get into a popularity contest, a vote, involving Notre Dame you are going to lose 11 times out of 10.

DLUXHOG

Quote from: EastexHawg on March 26, 2014, 10:53:44 am
We lost one game that season, by four points, to the number one team in the nation.  We led 9-6 with less than five minutes to go.  Notre Dame lost to a 5-6 Ole Miss squad.

However...any time you get into a popularity contest, a vote, involving Notre Dame you are going to lose 11 times out of 10.

We had the better season & schedule.    We should have been NC that year.   As a matter of fact, I'm claiming we are NC for the 77' season.   Sound good?
"Don't go in anyplace you'd be ashamed to die in..."
(you might get this someday)

Arthur pigby sellers.

Quote from: secfan30 on March 25, 2014, 10:49:42 pm
Or 1909 I think it was where we were called the champions of the south.
I would have put the '09 team against anybody.  Those homies could ball, and Bill Bratski was legit.  Only teams close to as good as them would probably Navy, Cornell and possible Monmoth.

Hogtimes

Quote from: cosmodrum on March 26, 2014, 09:23:45 am
Bama is the 1964 champion according to the way they did things back then. It's stupid, but it's a fact.

Yeah, the problem is, when people outside of Arkansas refer to the National Champion, it is  always Alabama.  Like you say, that it just the way it is.


nesjunk

Quote from: PonderinHog on March 26, 2014, 09:35:57 am
Then they changed the rule and it cost us the NC in '65.   >:(

Well, not really.  Michigan State was ranked #1 in the final AP poll before the bowl games in 1965.  Had they used the same system, MSU would have received that trophy, not the Hogs.

Ironically, the UPI still awarded their MNC trophy to #1 team in their poll before the bowl game.  But in spite of the fact Arkansas, Michigan State, and Nebraska were all undefeated at the end of the regular season - yes, you guessed it - they awared their trophy to a 8-1-1 Alabama squad.

So, yes, Alabama owns those trophies.  The system was incredibly biased back then so the trophies don't mean much.  My son has one that says he was the "Hit King" in 2012 because that's what the coach wrote on it.  If it makes you feel better, go take pictures of those trophies and place it on your avatar.  Arkansas was the best football team in the nation in 1964.  Fact.

TUSKtimes

Quote from: Albert Einswine on March 26, 2014, 10:00:52 am

The AP and UPI aren't the sole arbiters of who the National Champion is. Bama also displays their Grantland Rice FWAA national championship trophies in the years they were awarded it.


Bowls, back in the day, were glorified beauty contest. Who eventually got to play who, was usually the last thing on anyone's mind. So you had the rules and you played accordingly. In 1964, they giveth to the Tide. In 1966, they taketh away. Yes, sport's fans, that was the infamous year Bama was undefeated and going for their record 3rd NC in a row. But alas, Notre Dame and Michigan State played to a tie, with ND actually settling for the tie instead of the outright win. Both Michigan State and ND did not play in a bowl. Turned out to be good strategy. ND primarily and the Spartans, just a little piece, gets the NC. Bama, undefeated, went to a bowl and curb stomped Nebraska, 34-7 and still finished third. Under old NCAA voting rules, turns out all good Catholics could vote at lease twice. 

Hogtimes

Quote from: Hogsnort on March 26, 2014, 09:26:59 am
Arkansas had the best football team in the country in 1964. Anyone who thinks otherwise is off their rocker. Texas was second best and makes a better case for the title than Alabama. Alabama was third best...at best.

Well I am afraid you are in the minority.   Frankly,  there is no way of knowing who was the best team.   That is what makes it interesting to discuss.

EastexHawg

Quote from: Stan on March 26, 2014, 12:38:10 pm
Well I am afraid you are in the minority.   Frankly,  there is no way of knowing who was the best team.   That is what makes it interesting to discuss.

Arkansas beat Texas in Austin.
Texas beat Alabama in the Orange Bowl.
Arkansas finished as the only undefeated major program at 11-0.
Texas and Alabama both finished 10-1.

Yes, it really is that simple...unless you want to take that fact pattern and explain your reasoning for arriving at the conclusion that someone other than Arkansas deserved the national championship.

 

Hogtimes

Quote from: Ben on March 25, 2014, 09:30:54 pm
Its not really fair, but some of these people, esp bama fans will claim up and down that our championship claim is a joke. They say because back in that time, the national champion was crowned at the end of the regular season. Bama was #1 in the AP and Coaches poll, the two main polls. FWAA gave us the title since we ended undefeated. But people outside of arkansas will say we arent as deserving as alabama technically. Sheer stupidity.

Anyway rant over. What do you think about this? Do you think we would have beaten alabama then? Arent we more deserving?

I was a serious college football fan in those days and I had never heard of the FWAA nor their award.   I only knew  that there were two awards, the AP and the UPI.  So the week after the bowl games when I read that we were selected champions by the FWAA I was shocked and wondered what it meant.

It took awhile for me to realize what had happened and the significance of it.  If I remember correctly a year or two later the AP started waiting until after the bowl games and I believe the UPI changed in  1970.

It is probably hard for the younger ones on this board to understand how things were in the old days.   The bowl games were  originally just vacations for the teams and the results were less significant.

I remember in the 1950's when Oklahoma was voted the National Championship, their Coach  Bud Wilkinson said  "it is very flattering to have some people think that highly of our team,  but it really does not mean anything".

That sort of indicates how reallly unimportant sports in general were in those days.   Nothing remotely like the emphasis placed on sports itoday.

Nevertheless go hogs.

chitwnhog

Quote from: LedZepHog on March 26, 2014, 09:33:31 am
I caught all kinds of hades by saying this a year or two ago when this came up.  It is what it is.  Alabama won the AP and the UPI.  We may have had the better team and the better record after the bowls, but it didn't matter in those days.

And the AP changed the way they do things the next season, assuring Bama another NC and screwing Arkansas who until the last game had a 21 game winning streak. Had it been a year before we win the NC.  This is the kind of scenario that makes Hog fans think they are constantly being screwed.

razorbacker3

Quote from: EastexHawg on March 26, 2014, 12:46:31 pm
Arkansas beat Texas in Austin.
Texas beat Alabama in the Orange Bowl.
Arkansas shut-out the last 5 reg. season foes and only allowed 7 in Cotton Bowl.
Arkansas finished as the only undefeated major program at 11-0.
Texas and Alabama both finished 10-1.

Yes, it really is that simple...unless you want to take that fact pattern and explain your reasoning for arriving at the conclusion that someone other than Arkansas deserved the national championship.
FIFY

Hogwild

I didn't realize until today that Michigan & Penn State were also chosen as national champions in '64.

Bama
Associated Press
Bob Royce
Clyde Berryman
College Football USA
Edward Litkenhous
Montgomery Full Season Championship
United Press International
Washington Touchdown Club

Notre Dame
Football News
Howard Jones Trophy
National Football Foundation and Hall of Fame
Harry DeVold Press

Arkansas
Billingsley Report
Football Writers Association of America
Helms Athletic Foundation
Mel Smith
The State's National Champions

Michigan
Dunkel System
Loren Maxwell
Massy Ratings
Soren Sorensen
The Fleming System

Penn State
Bob Kirlin Poll

cosmodrum

Quote from: Hogwild on March 26, 2014, 02:37:08 pm
I didn't realize until today that Michigan & Penn State were also chosen as national champions in '64.

Bama
Associated Press
Bob Royce
Clyde Berryman
College Football USA
Edward Litkenhous
Montgomery Full Season Championship
United Press International
Washington Touchdown Club

Notre Dame
Football News
Howard Jones Trophy
National Football Foundation and Hall of Fame
Harry DeVold Press

Arkansas
Billingsley Report
Football Writers Association of America
Helms Athletic Foundation
Mel Smith
The State's National Champions

Michigan
Dunkel System
Loren Maxwell
Massy Ratings
Soren Sorensen
The Fleming System

Penn State
Bob Kirlin Poll

Looks like Bama is the winner.
Go away, batin'

Wildhog

They can all claim it. 

It really doesn't matter.  I've never gone boasting about our '64 natty.  And if I did, no one cares enough to refute me.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

mhsbc59

Quote from: PonderinHog on March 26, 2014, 09:35:57 am
Then they changed the rule and it cost us the NC in '65.   >:(

THIS we need to claim back to back titles under the Bama rule
I have changed my sig line of over 4 years that was never a problem until May 5 ,2011

EastexHawg

Quote from: Hogwild on March 26, 2014, 02:37:08 pm
I didn't realize until today that Michigan & Penn State were also chosen as national champions in '64.

Bama
Associated Press
Bob Royce
Clyde Berryman
College Football USA
Edward Litkenhous
Montgomery Full Season Championship
United Press International
Washington Touchdown Club

Notre Dame
Football News
Howard Jones Trophy
National Football Foundation and Hall of Fame
Harry DeVold Press

Arkansas
Billingsley Report
Football Writers Association of America
Helms Athletic Foundation
Mel Smith
The State's National Champions

Michigan
Dunkel System
Loren Maxwell
Massy Ratings
Soren Sorensen
The Fleming System

Penn State
Bob Kirlin Poll

Notre Dame lost their last game of the season to a 7-3 USC team and didn't play in a bowl.  Wait, don't tell me...in those days it was customary that the last game of the regular season was really nothing more than a vacation or reward for the players so the fact that the Fighting Irish lost is really inconsequential to the discussion.

Michigan lost their 4th game of the season to a 6-3 Purdue team.  Penn State opened the season losing by two TDs to a 3-6-1 Navy team, followed that loss up by being beaten by 4-6 UCLA, and went 6-4 so I don't know what the hell is up with the Kirlin "poll".

But hey, if Bama fans have no problem arguing that their national championship that year is just as legit as the Hogs', why not?  The more the merrier...

Hogtimes

Quote from: EastexHawg on March 26, 2014, 12:46:31 pm
Arkansas beat Texas in Austin.
Texas beat Alabama in the Orange Bowl.
Arkansas finished as the only undefeated major program at 11-0.
Texas and Alabama both finished 10-1.

Yes, it really is that simple...unless you want to take that fact pattern and explain your reasoning for arriving at the conclusion that someone other than Arkansas deserved the national championship.

No is not that simple.    We are not talking about who deserved the championship.  We were talking about who was the best team.   That is not so simple to determine.

EastexHawg

Quote from: Stan on March 26, 2014, 03:52:22 pm
No is not that simple.    We are not talking about who deserved the championship.  We were talking about who was the best team.   That is not so simple to determine.

I typically use on the field results to determine the best team.  What method do you prefer?

Hogtimes

Quote from: EastexHawg on March 26, 2014, 03:55:27 pm
I typically use on the field results to determine the best team.  What method do you prefer?

Without a true playoff, on the field results are always up for discussion.   Even then the best team does not always win the championship. 

As I said earlier,  this discussion is what makes college football interesting.   Anyone can say their team was the best team

 

Albert Einswine

Quote from: Stan on March 26, 2014, 12:59:33 pm
I was a serious college football fan in those days and I had never heard of the FWAA nor their award.   I only knew  that there were two awards, the AP and the UPI.  So the week after the bowl games when I read that we were selected champions by the FWAA I was shocked and wondered what it meant.

It took awhile for me to realize what had happened and the significance of it.  If I remember correctly a year or two later the AP started waiting until after the bowl games and I believe the UPI changed in  1970.

It is probably hard for the younger ones on this board to understand how things were in the old days.   The bowl games were  originally just vacations for the teams and the results were less significant.

I remember in the 1950's when Oklahoma was voted the National Championship, their Coach  Bud Wilkinson said  "it is very flattering to have some people think that highly of our team,  but it really does not mean anything".

That sort of indicates how reallly unimportant sports in general were in those days.   Nothing remotely like the emphasis placed on sports itoday.

Nevertheless go hogs.



Alabama has won the FWAA national championship 7 times, but it doesn't mean anything...
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

Albert Einswine

Quote from: sevenof400 on March 26, 2014, 07:55:44 pm
Just to throw some fuel on the fire, click here for the official NCAA list of football champions.

Definitely check out 1964.


Yep, the reason that's an NCAA recognized national championship is because the NCAA itself doesn't declare a national champion in FBS (D-1A) college football and never has because the NCAA has never run a postseason tournament for D-1A football.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

popcornhog

Quote from: goodguytex on March 25, 2014, 09:50:25 pm
Bama got beat. We didn't. Therefore our claim to the nc is legit. Theirs isn't.

This is beyond absurd. The main stream title(s) was determined pre-bowl back then. Bama's was legit by 64 standards. Ours was legit by 65 standards.

But we still had a legit share of 1964. This is a really dumb thing to argue over.
WPS

cosmodrum

Quote from: EastexHawg on March 26, 2014, 03:55:27 pm
I typically use on the field results to determine the best team.  What method do you prefer?

You know it does not, in any way, matter what we prefer. Let's say the NCAA made the ruling in regards to the 64 NC. Bama would be chosen. It's sucks, but a) they are Bama, so they win the beauty pageant, and b) all that matters is how they decided it back then.

Bama is the 1964 national champion. It's irrelevant now anyway, just like us.
Go away, batin'

PonderinHog

Quote from: cosmodrum on March 26, 2014, 11:23:00 pm
You know it does not, in any way, matter what we prefer. Let's say the NCAA made the ruling in regards to the 64 NC. Bama would be chosen. It's sucks, but a) they are Bama, so they win the beauty pageant, and b) all that matters is how they decided it back then.

Bama is the 1964 national champion. It's irrelevant now anyway, just like us.
I demand that you acknowledge the legitimacy of our claim to the 1964 National Championship.   >:(   :razorback:

cosmodrum

Quote from: PonderinHog on March 26, 2014, 11:37:35 pm
I demand that you acknowledge the legitimacy of our claim to the 1964 National Championship.   >:(   :razorback:

As far as I'm concerned, we are the 64 champs, but nobody cares what I think.
Go away, batin'

Albert Einswine

I care what you think cosmo, because what you think is correct.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

cosmodrum

Quote from: Albert Einswine on March 27, 2014, 08:56:35 am
I care what you think cosmo, because what you think is correct.

Because you are a Hog fan. A delicate, unique snowflake.
Go away, batin'

Albert Einswine

"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

Hogwild

Quote from: EastexHawg on March 26, 2014, 03:50:21 pm
Notre Dame lost their last game of the season to a 7-3 USC team and didn't play in a bowl. 


FYI Notre Dame didn't start accepting bowl bids until '69.  By then the National Champions were determined after the bowl games.

plumbhog

So Princeton has 14 National titles in football! I never would have thunk it.
bigdaddyhawg,<br />"Tyler wants to find the short receiver almost every single time.  He rarely even looks down the field. Folks, this IS a problem and it is going to continue to severely limit our pass game."<br /><br />Six days later, Tyler throws for a school record 510 yards against A&M

EastexHawg

Quote from: Hogwild on March 27, 2014, 10:31:51 am

FYI Notre Dame didn't start accepting bowl bids until '69.  By then the National Champions were determined after the bowl games.

I knew that.  I remember the fawning when the beloved Fighting Irish played Texas in the Cotton Bowl that year...their first bowl trip since The Four Horsemen galloped across the national landscape and into our hearts 45 years earlier...

I was merely pointing out that their last game of the season was a loss.

Hogwild

Quote from: EastexHawg on March 27, 2014, 12:21:27 pm
I knew that. I remember the fawning when the beloved Fighting Irish played Texas in the Cotton Bowl that year...their first bowl trip since The Four Horsemen galloped across the national landscape and into our hearts 45 years earlier...

I was merely pointing out that their last game of the season was a loss.

LSU, 9-1 & Top 5, was suppose to play Texas, they dropped them for Notre Dame. LSU then refused the play in the Cotton Bowl for decades.

Justifiable Hogicide

When the season was over and all the games had been played....Arkansas was the National Champion.
Hard to argue with that.

Melorock089

Don't suppose the Associated Press and the rest of the polls would recast their votes for that year would they?

Politics.

PonderinHog

Quote from: Melorock089 on March 27, 2014, 02:49:15 pm
Don't suppose the Associated Press and the rest of the polls would recast their votes for that year would they?

Politics.
Knowing our luck the remaining survivors are all Bama fans.

JONAS

Everytime I go to Fayetteville, I check the trophy case.  Everytime I see this.  So, I claim the 1964 championship.  I also claim the 1977 championship.

[attachment deleted by admin]

RNHog

Irrelevant. Unless we win one after the dinosaurs existed, I don't claim it.

GTOWNHOG

We actually WERE recognized by one organization as the National Co-Champion for the 1977 season.

FOUNDATION FOR THE ANALYSIS OF COMPETITIONS AND TOURNAMENTS

http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~dwilson/rsfc/history/rothman.txt
Good luck to ALL of our Razorback teams!!

redeye

Quote from: Hogwild on March 26, 2014, 08:16:08 am
Still think it is dumb that we chose the Alabama game to honor the '64 team in the upcoming season. Why pick the team that won the AP & Coaches titles that year?

To bring light to our claim?  At first, I didn't like it either, but then I realized that it was brilliant.  Imagine Alabama fans watching the game on TV, as the announcers discuss how Arkansas was the true champion.  Or how Arkansas was the only undefeated team.  A lot of younger fans don't realize that Arkansas was widely recognized as the best team, despite what the AP poll had decided.

Quote from: cosmodrum on March 26, 2014, 09:23:45 am
Bama is the 1964 AP champion according to the way they did things back then. It's stupid, but it's a fact.

FIFY


redeye

Quote from: TUSKtimes on March 26, 2014, 11:30:37 am

Bowls, back in the day, were glorified beauty contest. Who eventually got to play who, was usually the last thing on anyone's mind. So you had the rules and you played accordingly. In 1964, they giveth to the Tide. In 1966, they taketh away. Yes, sport's fans, that was the infamous year Bama was undefeated and going for their record 3rd NC in a row. But alas, Notre Dame and Michigan State played to a tie, with ND actually settling for the tie instead of the outright win. Both Michigan State and ND did not play in a bowl. Turned out to be good strategy. ND primarily and the Spartans, just a little piece, gets the NC. Bama, undefeated, went to a bowl and curb stomped Nebraska, 34-7 and still finished third. Under old NCAA voting rules, turns out all good Catholics could vote at lease twice.

'66 was also the only one Alabama should have won, so if I were an Alabama fan, I wouldn't complain.  Arkansas finished with a better record in both of those other years the AP awarded their title to Alabama.  If it had been Notre Dame instead of Arkansas, I doubt that Alabama would have won either year.

Funny enough, '65 bothers me more then '64; not because Arkansas should have won it, but because there's absolutely no good reason why Alabama should have.  Three teams finished with better records then Alabama, so how does the AP go with Alabama?

redeye

Quote from: Hogwild on March 26, 2014, 02:37:08 pm
I didn't realize until today that Michigan & Penn State were also chosen as national champions in '64.

Bama
Associated Press
Bob Royce
Clyde Berryman
College Football USA
Edward Litkenhous
Montgomery Full Season Championship
United Press International
Washington Touchdown Club

Notre Dame
Football News
Howard Jones Trophy
National Football Foundation and Hall of Fame
Harry DeVold Press

Arkansas
Billingsley Report
Football Writers Association of America
Helms Athletic Foundation
Mel Smith
The State's National Champions

Michigan
Dunkel System
Loren Maxwell
Massy Ratings
Soren Sorensen
The Fleming System

Penn State
Bob Kirlin Poll

You do realize that many of those were awarded posthumously, and using systems that are very controversial, too.

Hogwild

Quote from: redeye on March 28, 2014, 02:11:38 am
You do realize that many of those were awarded posthumously, and using systems that are very controversial, too.

Yes, that's why 99% of press & fans look at the Associated Press and UPI/USA Today (coaches poll) as the legitimate champions.  It sucks for us that Bama won both.

TUSKtimes

Quote from: redeye on March 28, 2014, 02:03:37 am
'66 was also the only one Alabama should have won, so if I were an Alabama fan, I wouldn't complain.  Arkansas finished with a better record in both of those other years the AP awarded their title to Alabama.  If it had been Notre Dame instead of Arkansas, I doubt that Alabama would have won either year.

Funny enough, '65 bothers me more then '64; not because Arkansas should have won it, but because there's absolutely no good reason why Alabama should have.  Three teams finished with better records then Alabama, so how does the AP go with Alabama?

Nothing to get mad about. No one was trying to have a legitimate playoff. They weren't trying to get number 1 and 2 together. They were trying to make money and that they did. Some of these polls didn't acknowledge or genuinely care if you went to a bowl game or not.

So, at times, it was a beauty contest that was filled with ugly ducklings. Bama's football program was a beast through the 60's. To Arkansas's credit, Frank Broyles had the Razorbacks clicking as a powerhouse program at the same time. That is enough said. It speaks well of dominate programs, but there was absolutely no process that allowed for matching the two best teams in the nation. It seldom happened and apparently, no one cared enough to get it stopped.


Albert Einswine

D-1A football champions aren't called Mythical National Champions for no reason. The whole thing has always been a subjective myth, and even with this new 4 team "playoff" system it's still a subjective myth.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

Sweet Feet

Quote from: Albert Einswine on March 28, 2014, 08:21:21 am
D-1A football champions aren't called Mythical National Champions for no reason. The whole thing has always been a subjective myth, and even with this new 4 team "playoff" system it's still a subjective myth.
You gotta admit though, this new playoff system is a huge step forward rather than having people pick who is/goes to the championship. I could never understand why out of all levels of football, division 1 had to be the one without a postseason tournament format