Welcome to Hogville!      Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Outcoached

Started by -Blu, March 24, 2014, 11:34:36 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

RazorPiggie

Quote from: hogville38 on March 25, 2014, 11:23:10 am
haha its called reach hard to get a hold of someone that has a long reach. I have a feeling the way you carry yourself Kinko may be a challenge for you. I grew up around people that like to talk tough and have found most of the time they are all blow.

Dude you don't know me at all so to group me into people like that is ignorant. I'm a very likable guy and I've never had a single person want to get in a fight with me (that I knew about) but you cannot sit there and tell me this team is physically tough by any stretch.

I'm no where near D1 talent or size but if I played basketball with these guys I wouldn't bat an eye to go in and mix it up down low. They would definitely know I was playing. 


**And as ALWAYS all of this is my opinion**

Paul

Quote from: pigture perfect on March 25, 2014, 09:59:29 am
not true. We were out coached in several games we won.

Not a difference between Anderson and Montgomery? Would any NBA team want MA to coach their team?
.  Good point...unfortunatelyueytfr

 

Justifiable Hogicide

Quote from: pigture perfect on March 25, 2014, 09:59:29 am
We were out coached in several games we won.

Would any NBA team want MA to coach their team?
Not a one.
And no other college would pay the giant $ we are for this ill-advised "nostalgia trip" with Anderson.

FineAsSwine

Quote from: BBsTheMan on March 25, 2014, 09:07:36 am
I would take Portis, ,Scott, Watkins, Kingsley against you as well.

I think Haydar would whup him too.
Hogs up! Covid down!

-Blu

I seem to have brought all the haters out with this thread, that was not my intention.  I apologize for posting during the heat of the game, that won't happen again. But, for the record I think Mike is a great coach and we're lucky to have him, I was just frustrated by the lack of attacking the zone last night, and the falls on both he and the players, because Kikko was asked in the post game conference their game plan, and it was to attack the zone.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: -Blu on March 25, 2014, 05:16:02 pm
I seem to have brought all the haters out with this thread, that was not my intention.  I apologize for posting during the heat of the game, that won't happen again. But, for the record I think Mike is a great coach and we're lucky to have him, I was just frustrated by the lack of attacking the zone last night, and the falls on both he and the players, because Kikko was asked in the post game conference their game plan, and it was to attack the zone.

Shouldn't feel regret or need to apologize.  You saw something you wanted to discuss even if it meant being critical.  You can't help so many insist on taking an extreme side. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Breems

Quote from: -Blu on March 25, 2014, 05:16:02 pm
I seem to have brought all the haters out with this thread, that was not my intention.  I apologize for posting during the heat of the game, that won't happen again. But, for the record I think Mike is a great coach and we're lucky to have him, I was just frustrated by the lack of attacking the zone last night, and the falls on both he and the players, because Kikko was asked in the post game conference their game plan, and it was to attack the zone.

There are a ton of them who jump at any sighting of the word "outcoached." I can almost guarantee that at least 11 threads titled "outcoached" were created this year (one for every loss).

I should have started 22 "Overcoached" threads.
Proud member of the "Left Before Halftime" football club.

Quote from: Breems on January 27, 2011, 08:42:29 pm<br />SCREW VANDERBILT<br />

forrest city joe

Coaching had nothing to do with this loss. when high D1 players can't hit wide open shots. there is nothing the coach can do.

-Blu

Quote from: sevenof400 on March 25, 2014, 05:24:48 pm
Let me ask a serious question here - no tomfoolery here...

Why do you believe this?

Just his resume and his body of work.   I'm not going to lie I didn't watch him much at UAB.  But, I do know the state of that program when he took over, and he made that program relevant for a couple years, and that's not easy to do.  And I actually kept up with him at Mizzou, and man I use to get so excited watching them play, it looked like the old hawg ball his last 2 years there, kinda like how we looked at times this year. 

And the most impressive thing to me, is he can rebuild a program and change a culture, not every coach can do that.  Let's be honest the situation here at Arkansas was getting bad, we had APR problems, kids not going to class under Heath, basically having a different team each year under Pelphrey and losing to mid-majors at home, I mean it was depressing and looked like we had no hope at all.  You look at what Mike has done, highest GPA in school history, first win at Rupp arena 20 years, Hawgs being on sportscenter on a nightly basis, last year going undefeated at home, and haven't had a losing season yet under him.  He's turned Bud Walton into one of the most feared places to play in the country.  You don't just have a mediocre coach do all that I just mentioned, we had 2 mediocre coaches, and you seen what they did.

Danny J

Quote from: Breems on March 25, 2014, 05:31:35 pm
There are a ton of them who jump at any sighting of the word "outcoached." I can almost guarantee that at least 11 threads titled "outcoached" were created this year (one for every loss).

I should have started 22 "Overcoached" threads.
LOL and that is the truth!!

PS...I love the number 22 you must have just picked out of thin air.  ;)

Danny J

Quote from: sevenof400 on March 25, 2014, 06:47:50 pm
Fair enough, -Blu and thanks for your insights. 

About the only thing that bothered (bothers) me about MA's coaching record is the fact he was an assistant to Nolan for so long (I knew MA was Nolan's AC but I had forgotten the exact number - 17 years).  That somewhat made me wonder if MA really had the desire to be the head coach.  A similar observation was likely made about Bill Guthridge at UNC.

The point here being some coaches hit their best use as an assistant coach and realize they really shouldn't climb any higher.  That is not a bad thing because every successful head coach likely has many quality assistants throughout their tenure.  I do honestly wonder if MA went through some periods of reflection trying to personally reconcile if he (MA) truly wanted to sit in the big chair. 


I think Randy Shannon also came to the same realization. I think most of it stems from their true love to actually coach these young amateur athletes while still being paid handsomely. To these guys it isn't about power and control. They are not the Petrino type egomaniacs. They are true teachers. I think that is why BB decided to build a defensive staff around Shannon.

The problem for CMA is that the only style he knows inside and out really wasn't being run anywhere else. He really had no choice but to be a HC and I think he was pleasantly surprised to find that he could actually do it. Also having his mentor and almost father like figure around to help him through these times helped as well. That is why I pull so hard for him. He really feels like my older brother. He is family.

ChicoHog

Quote from: forrest city joe on March 25, 2014, 05:35:08 pm
Coaching had nothing to do with this loss. when high D1 players can't hit wide open shots. there is nothing the coach can do.
I agree with your premise.  But i also say don't give the coach so much credit when they make the shots (Mississippi game).  It goes both ways. 

pigture perfect

I admit that sometimes I come off as a hater, but I'm really not. I do like Mike. I hope he does well. I just believe sometimes he has no control over his athletes. He did improve some this year and the good thing with me, anyway, is that next year he gets a clean slate to start with.
The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

 

PORKULATOR

Out Coached, really? So Mikes coaching shot 12% for the first half?

LUDICROUS
WPS
Everytime I reach a goal or achieve something new in life, someone's beat me there and wrote f♡€% you all over it - JD Salinger
I've got a fever and the only perscription...  is more cowbell.- THE Bruce Dickenson.

Paul

The only think I "hate" is my beloved Hogs looking impotent.  I think Mike is a great guy but married to one style of play that is will doom the program to mediocrity in this mellinnium unless he somehow learns how to teach his kids the fundamentals of half court basketball.

High Octane Hog

Quote from: Paul on March 25, 2014, 09:38:16 pm
The only think I "hate" is my beloved Hogs looking impotent.  I think Mike is a great guy but married to one style of play that is will doom the program to mediocrity in this mellinnium unless he somehow learns how to teach his kids the fundamentals of half court basketball.
Sometimes kids don't want to learn.

Paul

If Wisconsin & Dayton can recruit kids that wanna learn, why can't Mike?

BrooklynRoss

I support the Razorbacks in the city that never sleeps.

High Octane Hog

Quote from: Paul on March 25, 2014, 10:18:59 pm
If Wisconsin & Dayton can recruit kids that wanna learn, why can't Mike?
It is not necessarily a bad thing, to each his own, I am not sure you will ever like Mike's techniques whether he wins or not. Did you enjoy Nolan's teams? or Mike's at UAB or Mizzou?

Hogpkins

I'm a fan of MA and think we'll be in the NCAA tournament next year.  To the point of the thread, though, I was very disappointed in our effort the last three losses.  The two losses at the end of the season -- where our players confessed (hard to deny if you watched it) we got out-hustled and out-desired by teams who had a lot less than us to play for -- were extremely frustrating to me. 

For the first time all season, I openly questioned the coaching after those two games in conversations with friends. I believe it is a coach's job to motivate his players, and when they come out on the floor and look lethargic like they did, I wonder what is going on.  Energy is important to every team, but I think MA would agree energy is even more important to his team than other systems.  I'm sure this was discussed at length on here after those two losses but I avoided this place until I had time to reflect.

I agree with Blu that the key to our system is playing defense with 100% effort, and that is what I expect MA to get our team to do, especially in big games.  No excuse for those performances, and I call that a coaching failure.

Chic-Hog-Oh

Quote from: Danny J (headhawg7) on March 25, 2014, 08:15:36 pm
LOL and that is the truth!!

PS...I love the number 22 you must have just picked out of thin air.  ;)

22 = 10 + 12

avatar

Quote from: -Blu on March 24, 2014, 11:34:36 pm
Yes, your not dreaming, this is me saying Mike Anderson got out coached and bad......

There's no excuse for us to still be throwing up three pointers.  90% of our points have come from inside the paint.  Harris, Portis, and Kingsley have all had success when they've gotten the ball in the paint.  The fact that we aren't even looking for them and settling for 3s on a team that is playing 4 guards and is absolutely depleted in the front court is a joke.  We have a 5 STAR ALL-AMERICAN IN THE POST, use him! 

Kudos for Cal's coach knowing his team was undermanned and if his guys just played decent in the zone we would shoot ourselves out of the game. 

Good Season Coach Anderson and staff, but absolute horrible finish.  Looking forward to the improvements next year.  WPS!

starting bell sent a clear message that our plan was to shoot the three. obviously terrible strategy considering portis scored our first 8 points and then barely saw the ball again.

not one of anderson's best coaching jobs

avatar

Quote from: forrest city joe on March 25, 2014, 05:35:08 pm
Coaching had nothing to do with this loss. when high D1 players can't hit wide open shots. there is nothing the coach can do.

clearly you know zilch about basketball and coaching.

YOU MAKE THEM PASS THE BALL TO THE GUY WHO CAN SCORE INSIDE. YOU KNOW

BOBBY PORTIS

one of four results,

1- basket
2- basket + foul
3-no basket + foul
4- no basket+ no foul

3 out of four positives

this is not rocket science

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: avatar on March 26, 2014, 04:36:57 pm
clearly you know zilch about basketball and coaching.

YOU MAKE THEM PASS THE BALL TO THE GUY WHO CAN SCORE INSIDE. YOU KNOW

BOBBY PORTIS

one of four results,

1- basket
2- basket + foul
3-no basket + foul
4- no basket+ no foul

3 out of four positives

this is not rocket science
5- guy inside tries to dribble and ball is stolen before taking a shot
6- pass is errant and never makes it to intended recipient because passer is not good at feeding it inside
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

 

75_zebra

Quote from: avatar on March 26, 2014, 04:36:57 pm
clearly you know zilch about basketball and coaching.

YOU MAKE THEM PASS THE BALL TO THE GUY WHO CAN SCORE INSIDE. YOU KNOW

BOBBY PORTIS

one of four results,

1- basket
2- basket + foul
3-no basket + foul
4- no basket+ no foul

3 out of four positives

this is not rocket science

A coach can teach a player (Portis) to take the dang ball straight up to the hole and jam it (result-blocked shot; foul; bucket) rather than dribbling toward the line and throwing up a weak shot (see final attempt at S. Carolina).  Do they not teach "don't put it on the floor" anymore?

If the player is not capable of learning that, sit him down, or be satisfied with the result.

Chic-Hog-Oh

Quote from: sevenof400 on March 27, 2014, 10:40:13 am
7 - traveling or illegal carrying of the ball occurs *



*  calls no longer made in college basketball
8 - Offensive foul (lowering shoulder, charge, etc)
9 - Too well guarded by opposing post -- Portis must pass back out (therefore: 7-8 seconds wasted off shot clock; worst-case: pass back out is stolen or thrown away....)

jim shell

isn't hindsight a wonderful thing....you can very clearly see what should have been done :)

mhuff

Quote from: Danny J (headhawg7) on March 24, 2014, 11:36:45 pm
I said at halftime what my lineup in the second half would be and it is based on the first half.

Madden
Bell
Harris
Portis
Kingsley

They only have one big man. Only one. Just put Harris and Portis down on the blocks and have Kingsley cleaning up misses. We win this game going away. Obviously shots aren't falling to start second half so get it inside.

Agree with all that except I would have Clark in there instead of Harris. Unfortunately, Harry is a turnover or forced shot fixing to happen.

mhuff

Quote from: jim shell on March 27, 2014, 12:39:37 pm
isn't hindsight a wonderful thing....you can very clearly see what should have been done :)


Actually anything would have been an improvement.

Welcome aboard. +1

Rzbakfromwaybak

Quote from: Sooie71923 on March 24, 2014, 11:43:37 pm

Hogs haven't had good shooters in a long time. No matter the coach, the shooting is terrible and results are the same.


Who is in charge & responsible for basketball recruiting?   It's certainly not Jeff Long. Our current coach has brought in several recruiting classes already.  If we don't have good shooters by year 3, that falls on the coach.  When you can't make 15ft. jumpers & 3's....you better be able to adjust, penetrate & get the ball inside.  Good coaching teaches players how to execute those things.  Hopefully our next recruiting class will help solve some of our weaknesses.
Arkansas born, Arkansas bred, when I die I'll be a Razorback dead.

bigredone

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on March 25, 2014, 05:19:52 pm
Shouldn't feel regret or need to apologize.  You saw something you wanted to discuss even if it meant being critical.  You can't help so many insist on taking an extreme side. 

For once I must agree. There are extremists on both sides.

I see some negatives with this season but there are more than enough posts about the things that did not go our way. I am providing balance and now hopefully laughing with you.

HawgnCorona

Quote from: urkillnmesmalls on March 25, 2014, 09:57:54 am
...exactly, and as fans, we'll be a broken record here saying the same things over and over.  Hey...I had the same frustrations with Nolan season after season, but when we had the right mix of players in 94 and 95...we were a tough out.  Here's to hoping we see that again... 

Hang in there man. I think we will...

Next year should be even better with point guards to can facilitate the offense and understands how to be the leader on the floor. to be the extension the Coach on the floor.

Madden was the best--PG--we had this year and no disrespect to him. But his true position is a shooter guard. So he played out of position and that should be obvious to all, no question about it.

Mike and Temprees has it right regarding the PG position, IMO. Here is why.

Other than Wade we had no real on ball defenders to stop or slow down the opposing PGs from breaking down our defense and getting to the rim or passing for easy baskets around the rim or kicking it out for a open 3.

Consequently we had no one to do the same--consistently--for us to get those easy baskets and limit those ugly scoring droughts. Look for this to change next year.

Next, we had no one who could force tempo (ours) or control tempo (theirs) on ball. Turning the guy over and getting out on the fast break for easy baskets. Vital to us playing the style we like to play. Cory Beck was good at this...home and on the road.

From what i have read about Durham my hope is he brings some of what is needed on the offense and defense. That includes Beard and Babb as well...

For all of those looking for a big guard, I have no problem with that. I wouldn't mind seeing a player "like"a Kyle Anderson (UCLA)in this system with his style of play. Magic 2.0...

However I will enjoy what CMA is bringing in and next year should be even better...He is the coach and MMQB works really well in hindsight and rear view mirrors.     :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all your getting, get understanding." --   Proverbs 4:7

"Live justly, love mercy and to walk humbly with the Most High."-- Micah 6:8

urkillnmesmalls

Quote from: HawgnCorona on March 28, 2014, 04:36:39 am
Hang in there man. I think we will...

Next year should be even better with point guards to can facilitate the offense and understands how to be the leader on the floor. to be the extension the Coach on the floor.

Madden was the best--PG--we had this year and no disrespect to him. But his true position is a shooter guard. So he played out of position and that should be obvious to all, no question about it.

Mike and Temprees has it right regarding the PG position, IMO. Here is why.

Other than Wade we had no real on ball defenders to stop or slow down the opposing PGs from breaking down our defense and getting to the rim or passing for easy baskets around the rim or kicking it out for a open 3.

Consequently we had no one to do the same--consistently--for us to get those easy baskets and limit those ugly scoring droughts. Look for this to change next year.

Next, we had no one who could force tempo (ours) or control tempo (theirs) on ball. Turning the guy over and getting out on the fast break for easy baskets. Vital to us playing the style we like to play. Cory Beck was good at this...home and on the road.

From what i have read about Durham my hope is he brings some of what is needed on the offense and defense. That includes Beard and Babb as well...

For all of those looking for a big guard, I have no problem with that. I wouldn't mind seeing a player "like"a Kyle Anderson (UCLA)in this system with his style of play. Magic 2.0...

However I will enjoy what CMA is bringing in and next year should be even better...He is the coach and MMQB works really well in hindsight and rear view mirrors.     :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

I always hang in there!  Wait til next year!   :)   I really like your analysis and outlook.  I definitely think we have been missing a true PG.  Beck wasn't lightning quick, but he was strong, had good instincts, and at that time...he could use his hands to pretty well direct people where he wanted him to go.  Those days are over, so I'd like to see us move toward a PG that is really quick, as you outlined, who can man up on an opposing PG, and offer us the advantages that being a facilitator on offense provides. 

It's just always an internal struggle for me.  What makes us different is great when we shoot well and win, but it drives me NUTS when we're failing on basic fundamentals that appeaer to be something that could stem the tide or have an impact on the outcome.  It's just something I'm going to have to get over.  We watched Pel and Heath run more traditional schemes here, and we saw failure, so as fans we need to embrace MA and give this thing time.  I agree. 

Having said that...he HAS GOT to make the NCAA in the next two seasons, or I think that would have to be considered at least a moderate fail. 
I've never wanted a Hog coach to be successful more than I do for Pittman.  He's one of the good guys.

Pigsear

Quote from: forrest city joe on March 25, 2014, 05:35:08 pm
Coaching had nothing to do with this loss. when high D1 players can't hit wide open shots. there is nothing the coach can do.
Didn't know we had any high D1 players, maybe I missed something.

Hog1952

Love the excuses for not working the ball inside for higher percentage shots. That's one of this teams problems. So the answer is jacking up 3's. That's also why this team was so inconsistent. Almost all the good teams have somebody that can post up and rebound.It's up to the coaches to recruit those kind of players.
We would have been a very good team with Stokes. Players like Corliss, Big o, Klein, Steve Shaw, all our teams with them were good.

hogsanity

Mike's lack of in game adjustments is his biggest weakness.  John Thompson was doing color for the radio call of one of the tournament games tonight.  He said one of the coaches most important jobs is in the 1st 3 mins to see how the game is being called and then ADJUST his game plan to that.

Over 30+ game season a team cant play the exact same way every time.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

dsims2k3

Quote from: Paul on March 25, 2014, 09:38:16 pm
The only think I "hate" is my beloved Hogs looking impotent.  I think Mike is a great guy but married to one style of play that is will doom the program to mediocrity in this mellinnium unless he somehow learns how to teach his kids the fundamentals of half court basketball.

It is not different than Bobby Petrino (who is also a great coach for the same reasons)being married to his philosophy and unwilling to adapt to the fundamentals of football.  Yet people weren't half the critics. They would rather jump on Willy.
Quote from: Boston RedHogs on October 23, 2013, 06:39:15 pm
I am always ready for Hog Ball!

The football season has no bearing on my excitement for basketball season to begin. 

I know I'm in the minority, but I rank Hog basketball above Hog football every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Has a lot to do with the era in which I grew up, but for me personally there is just nothing better than watching the Hogs run up and down the court!
Woo Pig Sooiee!  Can't wait for the season to tip off.  I'm hoping for a much more competitive team this season.

hogsanity

Quote from: sevenof400 on March 28, 2014, 10:48:06 pm
It's funny that Thompson would say that given his usual M.O. was to play 40 minutes of thug ball.  Watch the 30 for 30 special on the Big East sometime for further evidence of this.

Well in his case it was to see what level of assault would be allowed.  Would it be simple assault, aggravated,  or attempted murder.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Pigsear

Quote from: Wildhog on March 25, 2014, 09:21:03 am
Can't shoot poorly if you're going to play street ball.
+1000

bigredone

Quote from: hogsanity on March 28, 2014, 10:55:36 pm
Well in his case it was to see what level of assault would be allowed.  Would it be simple assault, aggravated,  or attempted murder.

Never a dull moment in the real Big East!