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Brandon Allen-one might want to be on the right side of Hog history.

Started by JIHawg, March 22, 2014, 10:39:38 pm

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razorbackchamps94

Quote from: HatfieldHog on March 22, 2014, 11:15:19 pm
My prognostication says that BA can't be much worse than he was last year!

See ya
Lol , your right , most of his passes was 10 yards out of bounds.

ChitownHawg

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 24, 2014, 08:20:24 pm
That's NOT how it came down. At the end of last spring Bielema told the media that Allen had emerged as the No. 1 QB. He also said that Mitchell would have every opportunity to win the job in the fall...but IF HE DIDN'T he felt after watching video of Mitchell at WR the previous season that he was too valuable there to sit on the bench at QB. He also made it clear that Mitchell would not be a full time WR. He
would continue to get reps as the No. 2 QB in practice.

Mitchell had the chance at that point to meet privately with Bielema and tell him he'd rather stay at QB full time. But instead he went around complaining about it to the other players.  It was one of those players who suggested to Bielema that Mitchell was causing
problems with his attitude.

When Bielema brought Mitchell in and realized that the kid indeed had an attitude he made arrangements for him to transfer.

That is in no way running a kid off or making him play another position.

Yep you have to nip that kind of crap quickly. Nothing can undermine your authority quicker than allowing someone to run around popping off. I think CBB showed class by helping BM get to another school and smart by showing the others players he is fair by helping BM despite what BM was saying.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

 

Steef

Bottom line...the coach decides who will play. And where they play.

I hate it for BM, but Mike is right. If he had stayed, he would have played.

He blew it.

MissippHog

Seems so many are quick to throw BA under the bus.  Thank goodness he isn't like some of you when 3/4's of his receivers couldn't catch balls that hit them in the hands.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 24, 2014, 06:40:32 pm
two of the three workouts were closed and I was covering baseball the day of the open practice so I couldn't say.

Bielema and Chaney fell all over themselves complimenting Allen so I didn't take it as a big deal.

Look they know he's got to improve. But they also know that he's a much better option right now than any other kid on campus.


And you know, that makes perfect sense that they would do that.

I mean, you are working with a QB that, between being thrown in unprepared when Wilson went down the season before last and then had the season that he did last year (largely due to his injury), was probably "shell shocked" to some degree in terms of his confidence. I think that would be understandable. So, he comes out and runs up a 60+ completion percentage opening up spring practices and in the beginning, about the last thing that you want to do with someone who might be lacking in confidence, especially a QB, is to initially be excessively critical.

There will be plenty of time during spring and fall practices to critique his performance but that is going to be done privately and not publically.

And, at this time, he is the one QB on the roster with any live SEC game experience, so he is logically the guy you are going to hang your hat on, unless in competition for the position he proves otherwise.
Go Hogs Go!

Holy City Hog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 24, 2014, 08:20:24 pm
When Bielema brought Mitchell in and realized that the kid indeed had an attitude he made arrangements for him to transfer.

Speaking of agendas . . .

So a kid who spent 4 years on campus being praised as a 'leader' & 'team player', a kid who willingly played kick-off coverage under previous staff, a kid lauded for bringing 'toughness' & 'work ethic' to a struggling basketball team, a kid who's future was always described as extremely bright by Ark media suddenly has an attitude so malcontent that he threatened to disrupt the whole team?

For the previous 3 yrs you were happy to use Mitchell for 'feel good' stories but suddenly he's the cause of all problems? How convenient.

Mitchell had every right to be upset & disappointed. It's Bielema's job to manage expectations & motivate - that's what good bosses do. Bielema should not have made public comments about Mitchell switching positions. He should've recognized the sensitivity of the issue.

But what have we learned over the last yr? Bielema doesn't always think before he speaks out loud.

You put all accountability on Mitchell & none on Bielema? I don't expect a 20-yr old kid to handle an emotional situation perfectly. I do expect a coach making $3m yr to have enough forethought that a roster w/ limited talent needs all the help it can get & a kid who for all intents has done it right for 3 yrs is worth investing in.

Hogsnort


ChitownHawg

Quote from: Holy City Hog on March 25, 2014, 06:57:10 am
Speaking of agendas . . .

So a kid who spent 4 years on campus being praised as a 'leader' & 'team player', a kid who willingly played kick-off coverage under previous staff, a kid lauded for bringing 'toughness' & 'work ethic' to a struggling basketball team, a kid who's future was always described as extremely bright by Ark media suddenly has an attitude so malcontent that he threatened to disrupt the whole team?

For the previous 3 yrs you were happy to use Mitchell for 'feel good' stories but suddenly he's the cause of all problems? How convenient.

Mitchell had every right to be upset & disappointed. It's Bielema's job to manage expectations & motivate - that's what good bosses do. Bielema should not have made public comments about Mitchell switching positions. He should've recognized the sensitivity of the issue.

But what have we learned over the last yr? Bielema doesn't always think before he speaks out loud.

You put all accountability on Mitchell & none on Bielema? I don't expect a 20-yr old kid to handle an emotional situation perfectly. I do expect a coach making $3m yr to have enough forethought that a roster w/ limited talent needs all the help it can get & a kid who for all intents has done it right for 3 yrs is worth investing in.

Well speaking of agendas....

BM was a WR the year before and not included as a QB. CBB did bring him back to being a QB with a shot at being the starter, so expecting him to also play some WR is not a far stretch.

Now if you have ever been in a company where a new boss comes in then you would know few will speak up as they don't know the new boss. So BM not confronting CBB is not unusual. Speaking out behind the new boss' back was not a good idea. CBB did call in BM, but it seems BM wanted guarantees. That being his senior year I fully understand why he would want guarantees. Add in the fact he had been a good team mate by doing what ever he could to help the team.

If he were my son I would have told him you can want guarantees, but don't expect to get them. It is not a good idea to confront your new boss demanding anything. He doesn't know you well enough to take your demands in a positive manner.

Could CBB have handled this better? Maybe. But with everything a new coach with less than a year to get his team ready has to deal with - I don't think it is unusual to expect him to choose coddling a player as being high priority. He could have told BM to hit the street and let him be on his own. But CBB didn't.

PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Holy City Hog on March 25, 2014, 06:57:10 am
Speaking of agendas . . .

So a kid who spent 4 years on campus being praised as a 'leader' & 'team player', a kid who willingly played kick-off coverage under previous staff, a kid lauded for bringing 'toughness' & 'work ethic' to a struggling basketball team, a kid who's future was always described as extremely bright by Ark media suddenly has an attitude so malcontent that he threatened to disrupt the whole team?

For the previous 3 yrs you were happy to use Mitchell for 'feel good' stories but suddenly he's the cause of all problems? How convenient.

Mitchell had every right to be upset & disappointed. It's Bielema's job to manage expectations & motivate - that's what good bosses do. Bielema should not have made public comments about Mitchell switching positions. He should've recognized the sensitivity of the issue.

But what have we learned over the last yr? Bielema doesn't always think before he speaks out loud.

You put all accountability on Mitchell & none on Bielema? I don't expect a 20-yr old kid to handle an emotional situation perfectly. I do expect a coach making $3m yr to have enough forethought that a roster w/ limited talent needs all the help it can get & a kid who for all intents has done it right for 3 yrs is worth investing in.

In all fairness, Mike didn't accuse BM of having an attitude problem in the locker room, a player came to Bielema and reported that. Mike was just relaying to us what he had been told.

None of us know for certain how the conversation went between Mitchell and Bielema but I would assume that Bielema laid out his options for him and expressed his desire to keep Mitchell, but Mitchell obviously felt he was deserving of being the starter at QB in his Senior season and that wasn't how it was going to be.

Bielema still wanted Mitchell taking snaps at QB but because he was a really good athlete and you want all of your best athletes on the field, he also wanted to utilize him to some degree as a receiver. In retrospect, with the way our receivers played last year, do you think we might have been able to use a guy like BM at WR? But Mitchell wanted none of that. His choice.

And you know, Bielema didn't have to go out of his way to help Mitchell find a place to transfer that he could play QB for that final season. He could have just said that he wasn't going to grant him a release. But that isn't what happened. Yet some of you guys want to recreate history and slant the truth to fit your own agendas and opinions.

Come on guys, you have ground that axe down to the wood.
Go Hogs Go!

ChitownHawg

Quote from: Hogsnort on March 25, 2014, 07:57:10 am
When I see it, I'll believe it.

"It" is very abstract, so what is "it"? Care to put some numbers there on what BA has to do to be successful in your eyes?
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

Hogsnort

Quote from: locusbug on March 25, 2014, 08:06:35 am
"It" is very abstract, so what is "it"? Care to put some numbers there on what BA has to do to be successful in your eyes?
No problem. BA needs to be able to show more poise in the pocket. I saw him miss way too many opportunities with wide open receivers last year and I believe this is probably due to lack of experience and not having the field awareness of a more experienced player. I'm not saying he will or will not be successful. I hope he is.

Mike Irwin

Quote from: Holy City Hog on March 25, 2014, 06:57:10 am
Speaking of agendas . . .

So a kid who spent 4 years on campus being praised as a 'leader' & 'team player', a kid who willingly played kick-off coverage under previous staff, a kid lauded for bringing 'toughness' & 'work ethic' to a struggling basketball team, a kid who's future was always described as extremely bright by Ark media suddenly has an attitude so malcontent that he threatened to disrupt the whole team?

For the previous 3 yrs you were happy to use Mitchell for 'feel good' stories but suddenly he's the cause of all problems? How convenient.

First of all "the media" is not one person and the media does not operate in lockstep. I don't ever recall doing any feel good stories on Brandon Mitchell. Most of the attention he got came during the brief period he was on the basketball team. If a kid has a good game I report it. It is what it is.

Nobody covered the events that resulted in Brandon Mitchell's departure with more suspicion than I did. The press conference where Bielema announced the duel role for Mitchell came after spring football was over. We no longer had access to the players. Therefore there was no way to talk directly to him or any of his teammates as to his or their reaction to what Bielema said.

Then with almost no warning he was gone.

Bielema's version of Mitchell's exit seemed sanitized. Since he was still officially in school and with the team there was still no way to talk to Mitchell. However I know a number of ex players who speak with current players and through that process I was told the story of what happened.

I was just as surprised as some of you since I had never heard anything about the kid that wasn't positive. In double checking the story I basically was told that Mitchell's attitude began change  a year earlier when he realized that Brandon Allen had moved ahead of him on the depth chart and there was a real possibility that he might not ever start at Arkansas.

When the same result surfaced a season later under a new staff Mitchell had had enough. The only real problem was how he chose to handle it. I was told that if he had gone to Bielema and explained that he didn't want to spend time at WR the head coach would have probably kept him at QB full time and, as we know now, Mitchell would have gotten his shot as the starting QB and probably would have held onto the job considering Allen's injury.

Still, he got his chance to be a starter at another school. My attitude is, that's football. But when certain people on this board use those events to create an impression that Bielema recklessly ran off his back up QB which screwed up the season then I'm going to step in and post what I know about the situation.

I don't think Brandon Mitchell is a bad guy but I also don't think that Bielema is a clueless doof who told his backup quarterback to get out with no thought as to what he would do next.

I would label the entire incident under the category of, stuff happens. Given the circumstances Mitchell did what he needed to do and so did Bielema.

ChitownHawg

Quote from: Hogsnort on March 25, 2014, 08:15:25 am
No problem. BA needs to be able to show more poise in the pocket. I saw him miss way too many opportunities with wide open receivers last year and I believe this is probably due to lack of experience and not having the field awareness of a more experienced player. I'm not saying he will or will not be successful. I hope he is.

Hogsnort, those are reasonable goals and let's hope he meets or beats them. Or someone does as I am not partial to who the QB is.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

 

Hawgon

If Mitchell was running his mouth, he shouldn't have done that, but I really understand his frustration at being asked to practice at two positions.  If the kid is to compete for the QB job and is expected to come in and perform as the back-up, how in the world is he supposed to get better as a QB if he has to split his practice time and play as a receiver?  Now, instead of concentrating on being a QB and being the best he can be, he has to go to TWO position meetings and learn TWO positions and NOT get the reps at EITHER position that he would otherwise.

This was BB's first test of leadership and he failed it.  You have a talented and valuable member of the team who has in the past been praised by everyone as a leader on and off the field.  You want him to play both positions but he feels strongly enough about playing QB only that he is willing to transfer if you don't let him play QB.  He is your back-up QB and if you force him to play another position, he will leave.  What do you do?  Well, obviously, if you are BB, you show him who is boss and send him packing.  Now, where are you.  You are without that player as either QB or receiver.  A player you had already said was too talented to stay off the field and you just ran him off in a pissing contest.

hoghearted

Hawgon, I don't think it happened the way you paint it. I figure Mitchell didn't bother sitting down with CBB and discussing it, he just complained to his team mates. He let it fester and his attitude changed for the worse.


I don't really think he left Bielema with much choice in the matter.
It really is this simple. Unchecked government power leads to corruption, and lack of accountability for it is drastically eroding confidence in our institutions.    aristotle

sportster365

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 24, 2014, 03:30:13 pm
Why does this keep getting repeated? Ask the players if Bielema ran off Brandon Mitchell.

I was told that one of the seniors came to Bielema right after spring football was over and informed him that Mitchell was openly complaining about Bielema's decision to use him as a receiver while still giving him reps at QB. The player said that Mitchell was spreading dissension on the team.

Bielema called him in and asked him if he was ticked off. Mitchell said he was. At that point Bielema told Mitchell that he was welcome to remain with the team and still would have every opportunity to win the job but if he didn't he wanted Mitchell to work at receiver while still taking reps at QB.

Mitchell said he didn't want to do that. So Bielema helped him transfer to another school.

Obviously if Mitchell had bought into Bielema's plan by the 4th game of the season he would have been the starting quarterback, probably for the rest of the season.

So how is all of this Bielema's fault?

Look I wasn't trying to bring up the whole BM discussion again. This was about poor preparation and decision making upon our coaching staff last year. These guys came into a situation knowing Arkansas was thin at QB. It's not just about BM, what about Taylor Reed and Bruehner as well? How do you go with a college reknown backup LB to be your #2 QB in the SEC just ahead of 2 tru-freshman? I'm almost certain that Reed, brought in by Petrino, was light years ahead of Derby.

And just to clarify the BM situation, I don't disagree that there were derision arising among the players - team Allen and team Mitchell. Bielema hints at it in the article I posted previously. .

This sort of division happens on teams of college campuses all across the county year after year. This kid spent 4 years a Razorback, I really doubt he had any real thoughts of leaving his Senior season. Bielema him self mentioned how the team responded and reacted to the Senior leadership of Mitchell behind center. He knew the offensive core of this team was behind Mitchell and ignored it. He did what he wanted to do and rightfully so. But if the competition was as close as we were told it was, then it should have been a no brainer. Inspite of that there's always better ways of working through situations like this without running off one of your teams best players. At the very least keep Reed, which they couldn't even manage to do that. If those guys saw Derby as a clear cut #2 then their either playing games or we got a real problem on the hill.

Again his ego and bravado got into the way of his better judgment....Every successful coach finds ways to keep their best players on the team, why because they know they'll need them and the results of his actions showed in our 2013 results.

ChitownHawg

Quote from: Hawgon on March 25, 2014, 09:52:41 am
If Mitchell was running his mouth, he shouldn't have done that, but I really understand his frustration at being asked to practice at two positions.  If the kid is to compete for the QB job and is expected to come in and perform as the back-up, how in the world is he supposed to get better as a QB if he has to split his practice time and play as a receiver?  Now, instead of concentrating on being a QB and being the best he can be, he has to go to TWO position meetings and learn TWO positions and NOT get the reps at EITHER position that he would otherwise.

This was BB's first test of leadership and he failed it.  You have a talented and valuable member of the team who has in the past been praised by everyone as a leader on and off the field.  You want him to play both positions but he feels strongly enough about playing QB only that he is willing to transfer if you don't let him play QB.  He is your back-up QB and if you force him to play another position, he will leave.  What do you do?  Well, obviously, if you are BB, you show him who is boss and send him packing.  Now, where are you.  You are without that player as either QB or receiver.  A player you had already said was too talented to stay off the field and you just ran him off in a pissing contest.

First off you cannot let a subordinate dictate the strategy. Simply cannot be done. You let one guy and then another will try. There can only be one head coach. Also my understanding is BM was just as upset for being the #2 QB again. Well if the coach feels you are #2 then you have a choice.

1. Get on the field and prove otherwise, or
2. Go elsewhere.

BM chose #2. Blaming CBB for this is not being objective nor showing understanding of being a leader.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

ChitownHawg

Quote from: sportster365 on March 25, 2014, 10:18:10 am
Look I wasn't trying to bring up the whole BM discussion again. This was about poor preparation and decision making upon our coaching staff last year. These guys came into a situation knowing Arkansas was thin at QB. It's not just about BM, what about Taylor Reed and Bruehner as well? How do you go with a college reknown backup LB to be your #2 QB in the SEC just ahead of 2 tru-freshman? I'm almost certain that Reed, brought in by Petrino, was light years ahead of Derby.

And just to clarify the BM situation, I don't disagree that there were derision arising among the players - team Allen and team Mitchell. Bielema hints at it in the article I posted previously. .

This sort of division happens on teams of college campuses all across the county year after year. This kid spent 4 years a Razorback, I really doubt he had any real thoughts of leaving his Senior season. Bielema him self mentioned how the team responded and reacted to the Senior leadership of Mitchell behind center. He knew the offensive core of this team was behind Mitchell and ignored it. He did what he wanted to do and rightfully so. But if the competition was as close as we were told it was, then it should have been a no brainer. Inspite of that there's always better ways of working through situations like this without running off one of your teams best players. At the very least keep Reed, which they couldn't even manage to do that. If those guys saw Derby as a clear cut #2 then their either playing games or we got a real problem on the hill.

Again his ego and bravado got into the way of his better judgment....Every successful coach finds ways to keep their best players on the team, why because they know they'll need them and the results of his actions showed in our 2013 results.

Who ran BM off? No one. He had a choice. BM wanted to be #1 QB and he had not earned the position. It was a choice by the player. BM got his wish at NC State. The two team with a defense FSU and Duke he didn't do so well. Therefore I am not sure he would have faired any better in the SEC.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

sportster365

Quote from: locusbug on March 25, 2014, 10:24:44 am
Who ran BM off? No one. He had a choice. BM wanted to be #1 QB and he had not earned the position. It was a choice by the player. BM got his wish at NC State. The two team with a defense FSU and Duke he didn't do so well. Therefore I am not sure he would have faired any better in the SEC.

I don't know how much of a choice you really have when your leader (boss) calls you in for a sit down and begins with... well maybe you oughta think about leaving. From that point I believe the decision has already been made. Instead of making boneheaded suggestions he should have been trying to build some sort of a relationship by helping this young man smooth over his issues and keeping him motivated to continue trying.

Steef

If Mitchell had been named the starter, we would have to start a newbie this year.

We were gonna be brutalized anyway last year. No matter what.

Don't know if BA will benefit from the experience or not. But the basic idea behind the decision was/is sound.

Mitchell wasn't enough better than Allen (if at all) to make a lasting impact on our rebuild...With one season.

Mike Irwin

Quote from: sportster365 on March 25, 2014, 10:50:19 am
I don't know how much of a choice you really have when your leader (boss) calls you in for a sit down and begins with... well maybe you oughta think about leaving. From that point I believe the decision has already been made. Instead of making boneheaded suggestions he should have been trying to build some sort of a relationship by helping this young man smooth over his issues and keeping him motivated to continue trying.
None of us where there but that's not how the meeting was described to me. I was told that Bielema asked Mitchell why he didn't express his objections to him personally instead of complaining to other players. Mitchell said he started thinking about it and realized that Bielema's plan was going to bring about the same result as the year before. The more he thought about it the more he realized that he had no shot at being the starting QB.

It was at that point that Bielema asked him if he would be happier at another school. Mitchell said yes and that was that.

ChitownHawg

Quote from: sportster365 on March 25, 2014, 10:50:19 am
I don't know how much of a choice you really have when your leader (boss) calls you in for a sit down and begins with... well maybe you oughta think about leaving. From that point I believe the decision has already been made. Instead of making boneheaded suggestions he should have been trying to build some sort of a relationship by helping this young man smooth over his issues and keeping him motivated to continue trying.

Were you in the room or can you point to anyone reporting this is what CBB said? Stop with your blinded agenda and don't insult me by trying to deny it. There is no evidence to confirm your version of the events, so that is ignoring what has been reported.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

Hawgon

Quote from: locusbug on March 25, 2014, 11:05:50 am
Were you in the room or can you point to anyone reporting this is what CBB said? Stop with your blinded agenda and don't insult me by trying to deny it. There is no evidence to confirm your version of the events, so that is ignoring what has been reported.

I look at it as a kid who gave four years of his life to being a Razorback.  A kid who did things right enough that he had already graduated.  A kid who had been, at that point, through two different coaches and a clown show the year before.  He deserved some consideration at that point.  If he wanted to play QB only, he deserved it.  Especially if the choice is to send him or let him go packing otherwise. 

grayhawg

Quote from: sportster365 on March 25, 2014, 10:50:19 am
I don't know how much of a choice you really have when your leader (boss) calls you in for a sit down and begins with... well maybe you oughta think about leaving. From that point I believe the decision has already been made. Instead of making boneheaded suggestions he should have been trying to build some sort of a relationship by helping this young man smooth over his issues and keeping him motivated to continue trying.
Okay coach how many championships have you won?

 

sportster365

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 25, 2014, 10:59:16 am
None of us where there but that's not how the meeting was described to me. I was told that Bielema asked Mitchell why he didn't express his objections to him personally instead of complaining to other players. Mitchell said he started thinking about it and realized that Bielema's plan was going to bring about the same result as the year before. The more he thought about it the more he realized that he had no shot at being the starting QB.

It was at that point that Bielema asked him if he would be happier at another school. Mitchell said yes and that was that.

Players complain to other players all the time about roles and playing time. This is nothing new. Maybe BM had a little more influence than others would've but getting rid of him isn't the correct way to eradicate the brewing problem. That only makes you look even more like a jerk and intensifies the underlining problem. He could have easily lost half of this team from that very point. And from their performance last year and the way guys have been dropping out and leaving the program I wouldn't completely dismiss the idea.

sportster365

Quote from: locusbug on March 25, 2014, 11:05:50 am
Were you in the room or can you point to anyone reporting this is what CBB said? Stop with your blinded agenda and don't insult me by trying to deny it. There is no evidence to confirm your version of the events, so that is ignoring what has been reported.

here's a link detailing what happened straight from the coach himself
http://www.sportinglifearkansas.com/jim-harris-bret-bielema-gives-backup-nod-to-transfer-aj-derby/

But this isn't about BM, he's gone and that ship has sailed... this is about decision making and we're still left with the guy making them. Let's just hopes he makes better choices in the future.

texas tush hog

Quote from: steefhog on March 25, 2014, 10:56:47 am
If Mitchell had been named the starter, we would have to start a newbie this year.

We were gonna be brutalized anyway last year. No matter what.

Don't know if BA will benefit from the experience or not. But the basic idea behind the decision was/is sound.

Mitchell wasn't enough better than Allen (if at all) to make a lasting impact on our rebuild...With one season.

Mitchell didn't exactly set the world on fire for a 3-9 team at NC State last year either so get off of BA and move on. He will either fail or succeed this year if healthy and if he fails, hello baby brother. My money is on BA, he has had adversity and seems to have responded well in the off season.

Kevin

there will be heavy propaganda from the coaches, this spring, on how great ba looks, how the back of the defense is better.

proof will be next august.

i will listen to the propaganda but i am not buying it.
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

texas tush hog

Quote from: Kevin on March 25, 2014, 12:09:21 pm
there will be heavy propaganda from the coaches, this spring, on how great ba looks, how the back of the defense is better.

proof will be next august.

i will listen to the propaganda but i am not buying it.



Be sure to eat your crow with salt and pepper, I think you may need it in November.

LZH

Quote from: lchog on March 23, 2014, 01:01:10 pm
Opine, you are a stubborn cuss! With you it is always the players. I have posted several times the 12 year average team recruiting rankings for the University of Arkansas, #29. We have had a high of around 16 and a low of around 43, but the average for 12 years was number 29, just about exactly where this last class finished.

We have had basically the same talent level for the past 20 years. Every now and then we hit a good group that squirts us up a bit. We have always had to over-achieve and with some coaches we have and with others we haven't.

How many pro receivers have we had during the last 20 years? Quarterbacks? Running backs? It is not the talent, we had enough talent to win 6 games last year.
Rutgers, we went conservative in the 2nd half. Miss St, bad coaching decisions cost that game. LSU, we had that game won and our DC crapped the bed in the last minute of the game. So please give the players a bit of a break!

Over the same period, we've averaged about seven wins a season.  So, is it slightly better than average coaches or is it slightly better than average players?

Let that sink in for a minute.            :P

Wildhog

Bobby and Garrick both said BA was the best QB they had ever signed.  If it's propaganda from BB, it was propaganda from BP, as well.  He's got the tools.  I think his problems lie between the ears.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

LZH

Quote from: Wildhog on March 25, 2014, 12:16:47 pm
Bobby and Garrick both said BA was the best QB they had ever signed.  If it's propaganda from BB, it was propaganda from BP, as well.  He's got the tools.  I think his problems lie between the ears.

I've shared it before, buy my cousin (who knows his QB's) watched us practice a few times when TW was a junior and he said BA was "the best QB we have on campus".

chitwnhog

Quote from: LedZepHog on March 25, 2014, 12:23:06 pm
I've shared it before, buy my cousin (who knows his QB's) watched us practice a few times when TW was a junior and he said BA was "the best QB we have on campus".

I think it just goes to show that football is a team game. One player can't elevate a whole team in football they way one player can in basketball. BA has talent I just don't think he has been put in great situations to succeed. Getting thrown to the wolves when he was a Freshman like he was and then inheriting the situation he inherited last season would be hard on any player. I for one will be guardedly optimistic until after the third game.

Holy City Hog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 25, 2014, 10:59:16 am
None of us where there but that's not how the meeting was described to me. I was told that Bielema asked Mitchell why he didn't express his objections to him personally instead of complaining to other players.

Mitchell was quoted in AP News story after hearing of Bielema's comments: "With the competition not being over at quarterback, I'm just focused on strictly quarterback, I don't even want to consider anything else right now. My mind's on quarterback."  So someone had access to him to get the quote & Mitchell made it clear he had different ideas. This 'parting of the ways' meeting had yet to occur.

You have yet to acknowledge that Bielema's public statements contributed to the situation. You hold Mitchell accountable for allegedly complaining to teammates before going to Bielema but Bielema gets a free pass about airing his position switch plans before he had the full buy-in of the player?

Bottom line: Bielema should've kept his mouth shut about Mitchell, any discussions of position switches should've stayed in-house & he should've given Mitchell adequate time to process his plans.

Rather than putting the entire responsibility on a kid for complaining or not handling meetings with coaches you should be acknowledging that Bielema stuck his foot in his mouth . . . which a yr later appears to be a trend with him.

chitwnhog

Funny/sad how some want to turn a optimistic post about our quarterback play next season into a rehash of what happened last season. No matter how you cut it BM would not be in the mix this spring.

OneTuskOverTheLine™

Quote from: sportster365 on March 25, 2014, 11:21:28 am
Players complain to other players all the time about roles and playing time. This is nothing new. Maybe BM had a little more influence than others would've but getting rid of him isn't the correct way to eradicate the brewing problem. That only makes you look even more like a jerk and intensifies the underlining problem. He could have easily lost half of this team from that very point. And from their performance last year and the way guys have been dropping out and leaving the program I wouldn't completely dismiss the idea.

This reminds me of my 12 year old nephew chastising his father for disciplining him incorrectly. He always knows what his daddy is doing wrong, but he himself makes no mistakes. I don't intend to humiliate you, but you really don't appear to be a coach or personnel adviser to me.
Quote from: capehog on March 12, 2010...
My ex wife had a pet monkey I used to play with. That was one of the few things I liked about her

quote from: golf2day on June 19, 2014....
I'm disgusted, but kinda excited. Now I'm disgusted that I'm excited.

ChitownHawg

Quote from: Hawgon on March 25, 2014, 11:15:32 am
I look at it as a kid who gave four years of his life to being a Razorback.  A kid who did things right enough that he had already graduated.  A kid who had been, at that point, through two different coaches and a clown show the year before.  He deserved some consideration at that point.  If he wanted to play QB only, he deserved it.  Especially if the choice is to send him or let him go packing otherwise.

Hawgon, you keep missing one small part of BM's disappointment. He wanted to be the starting QB and CBB felt he had not met the criteria. If you look at his NC State stats they backup CBB and CBP's view. Forget CBB let's focus on CBP. He is much like Spurrier in he will put the best QB on the field, yet BM couldn't get it done.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

ChitownHawg

Quote from: sportster365 on March 25, 2014, 11:21:28 am
Players complain to other players all the time about roles and playing time. This is nothing new. Maybe BM had a little more influence than others would've but getting rid of him isn't the correct way to eradicate the brewing problem. That only makes you look even more like a jerk and intensifies the underlining problem. He could have easily lost half of this team from that very point. And from their performance last year and the way guys have been dropping out and leaving the program I wouldn't completely dismiss the idea.

First off you are now taking this to a "brewing problem"? That has never been reported. Mike said he heard it was BM and he didn't say he heard it was a brewing problem.

Then on the bolded - that is exactly how you get rid of a problem. When I was a younger man I took over a failing company. I walked into a cesspool with two key managers. In the end I eradicated them and we began our healing.

Now by telling this story I am in no way saying the problem with BM was as severe as what I encountered. I tell the story to simply advise you are wrong with this "let's all have a big hug fest and know everything will be all right".

Sorry life doesn't work that way.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

ChitownHawg

Quote from: sportster365 on March 25, 2014, 11:29:56 am
here's a link detailing what happened straight from the coach himself
http://www.sportinglifearkansas.com/jim-harris-bret-bielema-gives-backup-nod-to-transfer-aj-derby/

But this isn't about BM, he's gone and that ship has sailed... this is about decision making and we're still left with the guy making them. Let's just hopes he makes better choices in the future.

CBB's comments begin with the talk and Jim didn't follow up to find out what happened before the talk. Not that Jim should have.

What Mike has provided actually fills in some of the holes of what happened before the sit down.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

ChitownHawg

Quote from: Kevin on March 25, 2014, 12:09:21 pm
there will be heavy propaganda from the coaches, this spring, on how great ba looks, how the back of the defense is better.

proof will be next august.

i will listen to the propaganda but i am not buying it.

I think that is a safe place to be - wait and see. Nothing wrong with that.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

Hawgon

Quote from: locusbug on March 25, 2014, 01:50:52 pm
Hawgon, you keep missing one small part of BM's disappointment. He wanted to the starting QB and CBB felt he had not met the criteria. If you look at his NC State stats they backup CBB and CBP's view. Forget CBB let's focus on CBP. He is much like Spurrier in he will put the best QB on the field, yet BM couldn't get it done.

And by forcing him to split time between two positions, Mitchell was not going to get the opportunity to improve and possibly get better.

Instead of saying what practically every other coach in the world says about the position being open going into the fall when faced with a similar situation, BB made his choice in the spring and pretty much signaled it was irreversible.  Keeping it open would have kept Mitchell around.

I wonder if BB would have made the same choice if his buddy's son hadn't been on the team and next in line as back-up QB?

ChitownHawg

Quote from: chitwnhog on March 25, 2014, 12:33:06 pm
Funny/sad how some want to turn a optimistic post about our quarterback play next season into a rehash of what happened last season. No matter how you cut it BM would not be in the mix this spring.

Chi you are correct and I am guilty. I have stated my derailing point and will say no more on BM. BA is our #1 QB and it will be very interesting watching AA, Duwop, and Rafe challenge him.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

chitwnhog

Quote from: locusbug on March 25, 2014, 02:03:24 pm
Chi you are correct and I am guilty. I have stated my derailing point and will say no more on BM. BA is our #1 QB and it will be very interesting watching AA, Duwop, and Rafe challenge him.

Well in your defense you were responding to the derailers not the opposite. BTW did is see something mentioned about you being in Chicago?

ChitownHawg

Quote from: chitwnhog on March 25, 2014, 02:14:07 pm
Well in your defense you were responding to the derailers not the opposite. BTW did is see something mentioned about you being in Chicago?

In Naperville. We would love to live in the city, but jobs have kept us in the burbs.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

The NewEra

Bielema also said he thought Hollister and Cornelius had the best hands on the team at WR.

chitwnhog

Quote from: locusbug on March 25, 2014, 02:35:58 pm
In Naperville. We would love to live in the city, but jobs have kept us in the burbs.

Lived in the city for years and commuted to Wheaton for a few. 45min commute without traffic hour and a half with, don't miss that or the snow. I do miss my friends and just having so much to do.

Deep Shoat

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 24, 2014, 03:30:13 pm
Why does this keep getting repeated? Ask the players if Bielema ran off Brandon Mitchell.

I was told that one of the seniors came to Bielema right after spring football was over and informed him that Mitchell was openly complaining about Bielema's decision to use him as a receiver while still giving him reps at QB. The player said that Mitchell was spreading dissension on the team.

Bielema called him in and asked him if he was ticked off. Mitchell said he was. At that point Bielema told Mitchell that he was welcome to remain with the team and still would have every opportunity to win the job but if he didn't he wanted Mitchell to work at receiver while still taking reps at QB.

Mitchell said he didn't want to do that. So Bielema helped him transfer to another school.

Obviously if Mitchell had bought into Bielema's plan by the 4th game of the season he would have been the starting quarterback, probably for the rest of the season.

So how is all of this Bielema's fault?
Truth doesn't fit the agenda of the dumbasses.
All Gas, No Brakes!

sportster365

Quote from: locusbug on March 25, 2014, 01:56:15 pm
First off you are now taking this to a "brewing problem"? That has never been reported. Mike said he heard it was BM and he didn't say he heard it was a brewing problem.

Well you should read the article in its entirety, if you've already done that, then I suggest you read it again. Bielema clearly states "you don't want anyone in your program that could potentially take away from what other people are doing." Mikes comments indicate something similar. It's simple there was a problem, people were beginning to choose sides, it got back to Bielema and he decided to send the one whom he considered the spearhead of it all off.

I'm not saying he should have pacified Mitchell or even allowed him to have his way, but as a grown man and leader of this football program he should have been wise enough in giving this situation more time in order to help ease some of this young mans frustrations. Especially so if all you've got to fall back on is Derby. It wasn't just vital for the young man's success but more importantly for that of his own. You have to keep your best players in the program at all cost or you'll be looking for somewhere else to go.

No his bravado, I'm Brett Bielema, I've got 3 rose bowl appearances in 7 years. My big 10 records better than that of Nick Saban's. I can do it without you, backfired on him.





ChitownHawg

Quote from: sportster365 on March 25, 2014, 03:22:42 pm
Well you should read the article in its entirety, if you've already done that, then I suggest you read it again. Bielema clearly states "you don't want anyone in your program that could potentially take away from what other people are doing." Mikes comments indicate something similar. It's simple there was a problem, people were beginning to choose sides, it got back to Bielema and he decided to send the one whom he considered the spearhead of it all off.

I'm not saying he should have pacified Mitchell or even allowed him to have his way, but as a grown man and leader of this football program he should have been wise enough in giving this situation more time in order to help ease some of this young mans frustrations. Especially so if all you've got to fall back on is Derby. It wasn't just vital for the young man's success but more importantly for that of his own. You have to keep your best players in the program at all cost or you'll be looking for somewhere else to go.

No his bravado, I'm Brett Bielema, I've got 3 rose bowl appearances in 7 years. My big 10 records better than that of Nick Saban's. I can do it without you, backfired on him.

Your comments start off in the right direction then you make a big assumption that a group hug would have cured the problem. You simply think letting the inmates run the prison is the best solution. Sorry I don't agree - my actual experience in managing discontent that you inherits helps me agree with the way CBB handled it was the correct way. I am speaking from experience. You may have a difference experience in life. I don't know as you have not spoke of it.

If you haven't been in CBB's or a similar situation then you are simply being an armchair QB. Life is a lot harder than you make it out to be. The fairy tale doesn't end well simply because you have a big hug. Then pat the guy on the butt and say run along little Brandon I will do as you wish - to make you the starting QB.

What would that have said to BA or any other starter? It would have told them any whiner will get their way with CBB. He would have lost all respect from the players.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

seasonhog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 25, 2014, 10:59:16 am
None of us where there but that's not how the meeting was described to me. I was told that Bielema asked Mitchell why he didn't express his objections to him personally instead of complaining to other players. Mitchell said he started thinking about it and realized that Bielema's plan was going to bring about the same result as the year before. The more he thought about it the more he realized that he had no shot at being the starting QB.

It was at that point that Bielema asked him if he would be happier at another school. Mitchell said yes and that was that.


Mitchell realized that Bielema's plan was going to bring abt the same result as the yr before.

It is amazing that Mitchell could see what was coming, this is what a lot of posters on hogville were saying.........prove that they were right....