Gay marriage poll

[goodguytex]

Thought it might be interesting to see how those who post in the politics forum feel about this issue.

[LSUFan]

Let 'em be as miserable as the heteros.

[HiggiePiggy]

Let 'em be as miserable as the heteros.

I agree.

[OTTER]

Uhh, no.  Gay means happy, and there is no happiness in marriage.  Therefore, there is no such thing as gay marriage.  Never has been, never will be.

[goodguytex]

Going about like I thought it would. And wouldn't you know it? Right in the middle of the thread a banner ad pops up for cross Church with a pic of Ronnie floyd. Maybe we can get him to give his opinion.

[hogwild210]

I don't expect anyone to feel like they have the right to put their noses in my marriage (if that ever happens)...I have no right to put mine in anyone else's.

[PorkerOinker]

Need to add a third option.

#3- Get rid of government recognition of marriage of any kind.

[goodguytex]

Need to add a third option.

#3- Get rid of government recognition of marriage of any kind.

Done

[Razorfox]

Well, I went with oppose because ultimately I disagree with government defining/re-defining something that it didn't create to begin with, a religious institution. 

However, since the public seems to be brainwashed and moving in the wrong direction on this issue, my fallback position is that the government should just get out of tracking/recognizing it altogether. 

[LSUFan]

Marriage is a contract with the State. A piece of paper that you can wipe you ass with, with one stroke of a pen.

[hog.goblin]

I am personally against it, thinks it's a life of sin, and I am rather disgusted by it.  THAT being said, I believe they have the right to marry, and more importantly the right to give their partners health and financial directives, and the ability to bequeath assets to each other.

So I voted that I support national gay marriage.

[PorkRinds]

I am personally against it, thinks it's a life of sin, and I am rather disgusted by it.  THAT being said, I believe they have the right to marry, and more importantly the right to give their partners health and financial directives, and the ability to bequeath assets to each other.

So I voted that I support national gay marriage.

That's a respectable position.  +1 to you.

[DeltaBoy]

Just say NO to Gay Marriage. 

[BILLYBOB]

I am personally against it, thinks it's a life of sin, and I am rather disgusted by it.  THAT being said, I believe they have the right to marry, and more importantly the right to give their partners health and financial directives, and the ability to bequeath assets to each other.

So I voted that I support national gay marriage.

Nailed it! Thank you for thinking!

[BILLYBOB]

Marriage is a contract with the State. A piece of paper that you can wipe you ass with, with one stroke of a pen.

That's part of it. The other part...the more important part...is a an oath I took before God and Country that I will commit my life to another person. I'll support them through everything for the rest if their life.

You don't need a certificate from the state to do that.

[talley]

I believe that the u.s. in general would be fine with gays being together if you didn't call it marriage.

Marriage is something that is defined in the bible as between man and woman.  therefore, gays can't be "married". 

If you want to call it a civil union between two people of the same sex, right on, you do that.  It's none of my business, but by trying to make the word something it is not (not between a man and a woman) i believe that is when you have the most problem, at least for me.

I don't support or endorse gay acts, but i also don't support a lot of things like cussing, bragging, alcohol and many  other things.  To say one is worse than the other is wrong.  God gave us free will to do what we want.  If these people want to live like this, I will not support their acts, but who am I to tell others that they can't live a certain way, when my God gave them free will to live the way they would like. I will try to show them the way, but in the end, it is up to them to believe and accept. 

So, to answer your question, I am for civil unions between them.

[LSUFan]

That's part of it. The other part...the more important part...is a an oath I took before God and Country that I will commit my life to another person. I'll support them through everything for the rest if their life.

You don't need a certificate from the state to do that.

Amen

[cosmodrum]

I believe that the u.s. in general would be fine with gays being together if you didn't call it marriage.

Marriage is something that is defined in the bible as between man and woman.  therefore, gays can't be "married". 

If you want to call it a civil union between two people of the same sex, right on, you do that.  It's none of my business, but by trying to make the word something it is not (not between a man and a woman) i believe that is when you have the most problem, at least for me.

I don't support or endorse gay acts, but i also don't support a lot of things like cussing, bragging, alcohol and many  other things.  To say one is worse than the other is wrong.  God gave us free will to do what we want.  If these people want to live like this, I will not support their acts, but who am I to tell others that they can't live a certain way, when my God gave them free will to live the way they would like. I will try to show them the way, but in the end, it is up to them to believe and accept. 

So, to answer your question, I am for civil unions between them.

They should be able to call it whatever the hell they want.

[talley]

They should be able to call it whatever the hell they want.

they can call it what they want, but it doesn't make it actually what it is.

Marriage is between a man and a woman and that is the definition. 

I can call myself a car, but i am not a car.  I can call myself a black woman, but i am not one.  So i guess they can say they are "married" but that doesnt make them married.

This was my point i was trying to make.  The reason people are so against gay marriage is because marriage is something that they believe in very strongly and what their religion says it is.  By you trying to redefine it, you start fights.  You call it a civil union, no more fights.  but of course, that's not good enough for people.  They want to try redifining a word that is not redfininable in peoples minds.

[LSUFan]

they can call it what they want, but it doesn't make it actually what it is.

Marriage is between a man and a woman and that is the definition. 

I can call myself a car, but i am not a car.  I can call myself a black woman, but i am not one.  So i guess they can say they are "married" but that doesnt make them married.

This was my point i was trying to make.  The reason people are so against gay marriage is because marriage is something that they believe in very strongly and what their religion says it is.  By you trying to redefine it, you start fights.  You call it a civil union, no more fights.  but of course, that's not good enough for people.  They want to try redifining a word that is not redfininable in peoples minds.

Marriage is, til death do we part. So if you get a divorce, you were never married.

Yeah, makes sense.

[goodguytex]

This has really been a great thread. And very calm. With actual discussion. I guess I should give my view of this since I did start the thread. My position is actually a little different from a lot of people I think. Hopefully more nuanced. My views personally match hog goblin. No surprise there. But I'm opposed to a national gay marriage law. I'm a big believer in states rights. Even though I do feel the way I do about the issue personally, I'm a big believer in the citizens of each state having the right to decide issues like this one for themselves.

If the citizens of New York gay marriage, I think the people of the state should get that if they vote for it. If the people of the state of Texas don't want it, they should have the right to not have to do it. That's I think how the founders of this country wanted issues like this to be decided.

[Veritas Arkansas]

they can call it what they want, but it doesn't make it actually what it is.

Marriage is between a man and a woman and that is the definition. 

I can call myself a car, but i am not a car.  I can call myself a black woman, but i am not one.  So i guess they can say they are "married" but that doesnt make them married.

This was my point i was trying to make.  The reason people are so against gay marriage is because marriage is something that they believe in very strongly and what their religion says it is.  By you trying to redefine it, you start fights.  You call it a civil union, no more fights.  but of course, that's not good enough for people.  They want to try redifining a word that is not redfininable in peoples minds.

The problem is that "marriage" is not an exlcusively religious word.

[PorkRinds]

they can call it what they want, but it doesn't make it actually what it is.

Marriage is between a man and a woman and that is the definition. 

I can call myself a car, but i am not a car.  I can call myself a black woman, but i am not one.  So i guess they can say they are "married" but that doesnt make them married.

This was my point i was trying to make.  The reason people are so against gay marriage is because marriage is something that they believe in very strongly and what their religion says it is.  By you trying to redefine it, you start fights.  You call it a civil union, no more fights.  but of course, that's not good enough for people.  They want to try redifining a word that is not redfininable in peoples minds.

The problem is, you don't get to define what marriage is and is not based on your own personal views. 

[talley]

The problem is, you don't get to define what marriage is and is not based on your own personal views.

Once again, if they want to have a civil union go ahead. Have it!  Be together!  Have all the rights as of tax cuts and all that comes with the Marriage, but don't use the word.  Why is that so bad?

[Veritas Arkansas]

Once again, if they want to have a civil union go ahead. Have it!  Be together!  Have all the rights as of tax cuts and all that comes with the Marriage, but don't use the word.  Why is that so bad?

Why is it so bad that they use the word?

[talley]

Why is it so bad that they use the word?

Because the definition of marriage in the bible is between a man and a woman.  that is what my religion tells me.  In all honesty, marriage isn't for the government, but more an oath I take in front of God to be there forever for my wife through thick and thin.  that is why when you use the word as if it is okay for those that are gay to come together and be togehter it is not.  Not with my religion.  I just don't understand why they care to use the word.  They know why it bothers me, why does it bother them to not use the word, but have all the rights?

[Veritas Arkansas]

Because the definition of marriage in the bible is between a man and a woman.  that is what my religion tells me.  In all honesty, marriage isn't for the government, but more an oath I take in front of God to be there forever for my wife through thick and thin.  that is why when you use the word as if it is okay for those that are gay to come together and be togehter it is not.  Not with my religion.  I just don't understand why they care to use the word.  They know why it bothers me, why does it bother them to not use the word, but have all the rights?

Ok, but you're ignoring that marriage isn't exclusively a biblical concept.

And our government doesn't define things based on what the bible says.

[talley]

Ok, but you're ignoring that marriage isn't exclusively a biblical concept.

And our government doesn't define things based on what the bible says.

the word was made from the bible, so technically it is exclusively a bibical concept. Just because now you want to make it something it is not, doesn't change the fact the originial definition came from God.

[cosmodrum]

I'm gonna be really pissed the next time some dork on the food network says a "marriage of flavors."

[hogwild210]

This has really been a great thread. And very calm. With actual discussion. I guess I should give my view of this since I did start the thread. My position is actually a little different from a lot of people I think. Hopefully more nuanced. My views personally match hog goblin. No surprise there. But I'm opposed to a national gay marriage law. I'm a big believer in states rights. Even though I do feel the way I do about the issue personally, I'm a big believer in the citizens of each state having the right to decide issues like this one for themselves.

If the citizens of New York gay marriage, I think the people of the state should get that if they vote for it. If the people of the state of Texas don't want it, they should have the right to not have to do it. That's I think how the founders of this country wanted issues like this to be decided.

Should the gay community get to vote on what straight people can do?

[PorkSoda]

the word was made from the bible, so technically it is exclusively a bibical concept. Just because now you want to make it something it is not, doesn't change the fact the originial definition came from God.

that is 100% BS.  marriage predates history which includes the jewish historical records in the bible.

[PorkSoda]

Because the definition of marriage in the bible is between a man and a woman.  that is what my religion tells me.  In all honesty, marriage isn't for the government, but more an oath I take in front of God to be there forever for my wife through thick and thin.  that is why when you use the word as if it is okay for those that are gay to come together and be togehter it is not.  Not with my religion.  I just don't understand why they care to use the word.  They know why it bothers me, why does it bother them to not use the word, but have all the rights?

"The word 'marriage' originated from the Anglo French word 'marier,' meaning to marry. It was first used in the 14th century. It is used when persons of the opposite sex are joined together to begin a family."

hmmm looks like you are FOS

[HogScoutMaster]

They should be able to call it whatever the hell they want.

You have lately been a little moody.  Are you not taking your meds anymore?

[talley]

that is 100% BS.  marriage predates history which includes the jewish historical records in the bible.

well since adam and eve (the first people on earth) were married then i was assume that is not true...

also, the definition you gave is what the bible says marriage is. So, once again does it really matter when the word came in to existence , the meaning is still the same.

[PorkSoda]

well since adam and eve (the first people on earth) were married then i was assume that is not true...

also, the definition you gave is what the bible says marriage is. So, once again does it really matter when the word came in to existence , the meaning is still the same.

you claimed that the word came from the bible, it doesn't, you claimed that the idea of marriage originated from the bible, it doesn't.

the concept of marriage has numerous definitions from every culture on earth and predates the written word, which includes the bible.

christians have zero authority in defining the concept of marriage.  in current society it is defined by secular legislation.  that legislation can be changed as societies values change.

you can believe its ordained by god all you want, but until he actually registers to vote...he's got no say in the matter.

[HogScoutMaster]

you claimed that the word came from the bible, it doesn't, you claimed that the idea of marriage originated from the bible, it doesn't.

Prove it didnt?

[PorkSoda]

Prove it didnt?

never mind that the word didn't exist until the 14th century

never mind that just about every culture on earth has some form of marriage that is governed by their own cultural laws. 

self deception is not becoming of a grown man.

[PorkerOinker]

IMO Gay Marriage is a life of sin. But for those of us that believe in God and follow the Bible it tells us that Sin is Sin, no one sin is worse than any other, and if you are one of God's children (Born Again Believer) than God's doesn't even care about the Sin's you have committed, are committing, or will ever commit. He has given you a clean slate (your born again spirit), and that is where God's sees you and deals with you is in your spirit. Now if you are born again you can still live in Sin, but God does not impute those Sin's against you. What you are doing is giving the Devil access to your physical and mental life when you live this life of Sin. It does not matter whether this life of Sin is homosexuality, alcoholism, gluttony etc.

Which is why I believe the government should not acknowledge marriage of any kind because I believe it to be a Biblical principle and as long as government acknowledges marriage in general, I think Gay couples should be afforded all the benefits as heterosexual couples. Whether it be tax breaks, health insurance coverage for one another, or anything else.

My overall point is Sin is Sin no matte what the Sin is, but this doesn't sit well with most Denomination's now days, because it makes the Christian take responsibility for themselves. But I would pose this question to those that think it is worse sin than any other, the Bible tells us we have all Sinned and come short of the glory of God, So who wants to be the best Sinner that ever went to Hell?

The Gospel of Jesus Christ tells us that God has already provided us with any and everything we will ever need in our lives, whether it be health, finances, forgiveness, etc. but he has provided it for us in our born again spirit and it is up to us to see it manifest into our physical life here on earth.

Now I know I have drifted off topic some in this post, but it is because this post is directed at the people that argue against Gay marriage more than the people arguing for it.

[hogwild210]

Just say NO to Gay Marriage. 

You know that you won't actually have to marry a man, right?

[DOGALUM]

You know that you won't actually have to marry a man, right?

Wait....what?

[hogwild210]

Wait....what?

The only reason I can think of for someone to be against something like this is that they think it will somehow affect THEIR marriage. Because surely you don't care what other people do if it doesn't affect you...right?

[goodguytex]

Should the gay community get to vote on what straight people can do?

They already do... They're called elections. If they want to vote to eliminate right of straight people to get married... Get it on a ballot and vote for it. Well see who gets more votes. I'll even sign a petition to get it on the ballot.

[hogwild210]

They already do... They're called elections. If they want to vote to eliminate right of straight people to get married... Get it on a ballot and vote for it. Well see who gets more votes. I'll even sign a petition to get it on the ballot.

That's not what I meant, but I think you knew that.

[goodguytex]

That's not what I meant, but I think you knew that.

who?? Me??

[1873Hawg]

Need to add a third option.

#3- Get rid of government recognition of marriage of any kind.

Need a fourth option:

#4 - The state only recognizes civil unions which are available to any two consenting adults and can only be obtained via a state process which is completely independent of churches.. All currently valid marriages are grandfathered in as civil unions. All state/federal benefits currently provided for married couples will be restricted to couples with a valid civil union. People and churches are free to perform "marriages" as they choose, but a marriage does not grant civil union status; the couple must still go through the process of a state sanctioned civil union before the state or fed recognizes their relationship. Neither the state or the fed recognizes a marriage in any legal manner.

[DOGALUM]

The only reason I can think of for someone to be against something like this is that they think it will somehow affect THEIR marriage. Because surely you don't care what other people do if it doesn't affect you...right?

I thought it meant that I had to marry a man.

No....but I do care what other people do even if it doesn't affect me.  Sometimes.

[OTTER]

On a personal level, I am against it and believe it is wrong.  That said, I believe that when it is all said and done, SCOTUS will rule in favor of gay marriage and I will accept that.  I will not agree, I still won't like it and I will still believe it is wrong.  But, it will not affect me from the standpoint that my life will not change.  It will just be another sad day in America.

[goodguytex]

Need a fourth option:

#4 - The state only recognizes civil unions which are available to any two consenting adults and can only be obtained via a state process which is completely independent of churches.. All currently valid marriages are grandfathered in as civil unions. All state/federal benefits currently provided for married couples will be restricted to couples with a valid civil union. People and churches are free to perform "marriages" as they choose, but a marriage does not grant civil union status; the couple must still go through the process of a state sanctioned civil union before the state or fed recognizes their relationship. Neither the state or the fed recognizes a marriage in any legal manner.

Too long. Give me a shortened version and I'll see if I can add it in.

[1873Hawg]

Too long. Give me a shortened version and I'll see if I can add it in.

How about

#4. Civil Unions for state recognition/benefits for everybody =/= Marriages recognized only by churches for whomever wants them and the church is willing

or in short title

#4. The 1873 Civil Union Act (see 1873Hawg's post)

[goodguytex]

How about

#4. Civil Unions for state recognition/benefits for everybody =/= Marriages recognized only by churches for whomever wants them and the church is willing

or in short title

#4. The 1873 Civil Union Act (see 1873Hawg's post)

Done deal Buddy!