Recruiting In-State Players

[hawgfan4life]

Have read several posts about recruiting in-state players.  Many are of the mindset that we must build a wall and keep all elite in-state prospects and it is a failure by the staff when this does not happen.  For those who believe we are not getting it done in state, consider the following:

According to Scout's ranking of in state players in the state of Alabama the last 5 years, 10 four and five star players have departed the state of Alabama to go to other schools.  One notable player is Jameis Winston who led the FL State seminoles to the NC game and won a heisman trophy.  That is an average of two four or five star athletes departing the state with two elite programs in state to recruit them.

The state of Oklahoma with OU, OSU, and Tulsa all recruiting in state players has lost the top rated player in the state of Oklahoma 4 of the past five years.  Oklahoma has lost two of its top four ranked players (all four or five star players) in three of the five years

That was the only two states I researched.  I only considered the four and five star players.  If you believe AR should get all elite players, you would think that states with two top level BCS programs would secure all the elite talent.  However, recruiting is not that simple and athletes sometimes just want to go somewhere far away from where they live.

The fact is that AR is doing just fine with in-state talent.  As one poster pointed out in another thread, look at the list of elite players AR has not signed and look at their production.  It hasn't seemed that AR has missed too badly in most instances.

[redeye]

Nice research and great point!

I'm more concerned with why we're not getting much of that elite talent in Oklahoma.  Fayetteville nearly straddles the Oklahoma border and we really should be able to grab more elite players from there.

[redleg]

I don't give a hoot n hell about Alabama or Oklahoma. Arkansas is much less populated than either of those states, and on a normal year only produces about 7-10 Division I-A players. for Arkansas to miss out on the #1 or #2 in-state recruit in each of the previous 5 classes really hurts. It doesn't matter how they've done at other schools. They could have signed with Arkansas and helped the home town team win some games, instead of helping their chosen school BEAT the Hogs.
Zac Brooks  of Jonesboro, signing with Clemson doesn't hurt nearly as bad because the Hogs don't play Clemson on a yearly basis. Dyer, Keihl Frazier, Tenpenny, and Josh Frazier going to rival SEC West schools, hurts.
It DOES matter, and I don't see the Hogs getting every in-state player they offer for the 2015 class either. KJ Hill, Will Gragg, and LaMichael Pettway are up-in-the-air, and may end up helping Alabama, Auburn, LSU, or Ole Miss beat us again.
That is unacceptable.

[ricepig]

I don't give a hoot n hell about Alabama or Oklahoma. Arkansas is much less populated than either of those states, and on a normal year only produces about 7-10 Division I-A playeafor Arkansas to miss out on the #1 or #2 in-state recruit in each of the previous 5 classes really hurts. It doesn't matter how they've done at other schools. They could have signed with Arkansas and helped the home town team win some games, instead of helping their chosen school BEAT the Hogs.
Zac Brooks  of Jonesboro, signing with Clemson doesn't hurt nearly as bad because the Hogs don't play Clemson on a yearly basis. Dyer, Keihl Frazier, Tenpenny, and Josh Frazier going to rival SEC West schools, hurts.
It DOES matter, and I don't see the Hogs getting every in-state player they offer for the 2015 class either. KJ Hill, Will Gragg, and LaMichael Pettway are up-in-the-air, and may end up helping Alabama, Auburn, LSU, or Ole Miss beat us again.
That is unacceptable.

If we get an equal player from another state, then I don't see a big loss. I don't want to lose any in-state player, but if you substitute in an equal replacement, what have you lost?

[redeye]

I don't give a hoot n hell about Alabama or Oklahoma. Arkansas is much less populated than either of those states, and on a normal year only produces about 7-10 Division I-A players. for Arkansas to miss out on the #1 or #2 in-state recruit in each of the previous 5 classes really hurts. It doesn't matter how they've done at other schools. They could have signed with Arkansas and helped the home town team win some games, instead of helping their chosen school BEAT the Hogs.
Zac Brooks  of Jonesboro, signing with Clemson doesn't hurt nearly as bad because the Hogs don't play Clemson on a yearly basis. Dyer, Keihl Frazier, Tenpenny, and Josh Frazier going to rival SEC West schools, hurts.
It DOES matter, and I don't see the Hogs getting every in-state player they offer for the 2015 class either. KJ Hill, Will Gragg, and LaMichael Pettway are up-in-the-air, and may end up helping Alabama, Auburn, LSU, or Ole Miss beat us again.
That is unacceptable.

Arkansas produced 8 players who signed with BCS schools last year and we signed 5 of them.  Oklahoma produced 16 players who signed with BCS schools and half of them left Oklahoma.

That's only one year, but I don't see any advantage for Oklahoma, and yet, they're able to beat Alabama and play for national championships.

[LRHawg]

Have read several posts about recruiting in-state players.  Many are of the mindset that we must build a wall and keep all elite in-state prospects and it is a failure by the staff when this does not happen.  For those who believe we are not getting it done in state, consider the following:

According to Scout's ranking of in state players in the state of Alabama the last 5 years, 10 four and five star players have departed the state of Alabama to go to other schools.  One notable player is Jameis Winston who led the FL State seminoles to the NC game and won a heisman trophy.  That is an average of two four or five star athletes departing the state with two elite programs in state to recruit them.

The state of Oklahoma with OU, OSU, and Tulsa all recruiting in state players has lost the top rated player in the state of Oklahoma 4 of the past five years.  Oklahoma has lost two of its top four ranked players (all four or five star players) in three of the five years

That was the only two states I researched.  I only considered the four and five star players.  If you believe AR should get all elite players, you would think that states with two top level BCS programs would secure all the elite talent.  However, recruiting is not that simple and athletes sometimes just want to go somewhere far away from where they live.

The fact is that AR is doing just fine with in-state talent.  As one poster pointed out in another thread, look at the list of elite players AR has not signed and look at their production.  It hasn't seemed that AR has missed too badly in most instances.

BOOM! I suspected we weren't the only ones losing some of our talent. Thanks for doing the leg-work and researching this for us! Quality post.

[Soonerman12]

The top player in the state of Oklahoma this year was Steven Parker. OU has 3 of top 4 players committed to them for the 2015 class. Barnett is all but certain to sign with OU, as is the 5th best player, Will Sunderland. I will say that the state of Oklahoma has been stacked with talent, in the last couple of years, and the next couple of years do t seem to be breaking the trend. Much of that is due to the massive population boom going on in Oklahoma the last decade. OKC area, alone, has grown at a 23 percent rate. It's about 50k from 1.5 million in metro. Compare that to 2006 when there was only 1.1 million. State was around 3.3, in 2006, and will eclipse 4 million by the end of he year.

That said, Arkansas should definitely start hitting that state harder. Good HS football is played here and there is lots of talent. Texas Tech, KSU, Alabama, LSU, A&M, Mizzou and Tennessee seem to come in and get players every so often. Seems like the hogs, with geography on their side, should be pretty successful with players not die- hard OU or OSU fans growing up.

[Soonerman12]

Arkansas produced 8 players who signed with BCS schools last year and we signed 5 of them.  Oklahoma produced 16 players who signed with BCS schools and half of them left Oklahoma.

That's only one year, but I don't see any advantage for Oklahoma, and yet, they're able to beat Alabama and play for national championships.

OU is a national brand. They get guys from California, Arizona, Texas, Ohio and Florida on an annual basis. OU pretty much picks who they want from Kansas, as well. Most of the kids in Kansas grow up KU basketball fans and OU football fans.

[redeye]

OU is a national brand. They get guys from California, Arizona, Texas, Ohio and Florida on an annual basis. OU pretty much picks who they want from Kansas, as well. Most of the kids in Kansas grow up KU basketball fans and OU football fans.

Yea, I hear you.

In the 2014 class, Arkansas signed players from Arizona, Texas, Florida, Missouri, Georgia, Louisiana, Minnesota, Iowa and already have commitments from Ohio and Texas in the 2015 class.  I guess we're a national brand also.

[1highhog]

I don't give a hoot n hell about Alabama or Oklahoma. Arkansas is much less populated than either of those states, and on a normal year only produces about 7-10 Division I-A players. for Arkansas to miss out on the #1 or #2 in-state recruit in each of the previous 5 classes really hurts. It doesn't matter how they've done at other schools. They could have signed with Arkansas and helped the home town team win some games, instead of helping their chosen school BEAT the Hogs.
Zac Brooks  of Jonesboro, signing with Clemson doesn't hurt nearly as bad because the Hogs don't play Clemson on a yearly basis. Dyer, Keihl Frazier, Tenpenny, and Josh Frazier going to rival SEC West schools, hurts.
It DOES matter, and I don't see the Hogs getting every in-state player they offer for the 2015 class either. KJ Hill, Will Gragg, and LaMichael Pettway are up-in-the-air, and may end up helping Alabama, Auburn, LSU, or Ole Miss beat us again.
That is unacceptable.

I also don't want a Michael Dyer, Josh Frazier kid if they don't want to play for the Hogs.  If we can get players of equal talent from another State, then I'd rather have them, when a player grows up here in Arkansas, and just wants to see the world basically, I have no problem with that, it's their life, I do think they would benefit better if Pro ball don't work out for them if they play here though.  But if a player like Dyer born and raised here, and acted the way he did, I don't want him here, I would never have offered and just looked at him and a prima Donna that would be a cancer in the locker room.  We easily found better RB's than him anyway.  From all I heard as just scuttlebutt, Frazier would have had to been dragged here in chains before he would have played here, why would we want a player like that?  I think we found better elsewhere, a player like him would have been cancer.

[smb]

You want kids who wants to be Razorbacks I don't care where they come from!

[Chief Mac]

I don't give a hoot n hell about Alabama or Oklahoma. Arkansas is much less populated than either of those states, and on a normal year only produces about 7-10 Division I-A players. for Arkansas to miss out on the #1 or #2 in-state recruit in each of the previous 5 classes really hurts. It doesn't matter how they've done at other schools. They could have signed with Arkansas and helped the home town team win some games, instead of helping their chosen school BEAT the Hogs.
Zac Brooks  of Jonesboro, signing with Clemson doesn't hurt nearly as bad because the Hogs don't play Clemson on a yearly basis. Dyer, Keihl Frazier, Tenpenny, and Josh Frazier going to rival SEC West schools, hurts.
It DOES matter, and I don't see the Hogs getting every in-state player they offer for the 2015 class either. KJ Hill, Will Gragg, and LaMichael Pettway are up-in-the-air, and may end up helping Alabama, Auburn, LSU, or Ole Miss beat us again.
That is unacceptable.

with the exception of Dyer until he flamed out, how well have the other kids performed?  You need to take the Arkansas blinders off and see things for what they are.  Not one of those kids have had an impact and most likely, only one will (Josh Frazier).  I don't see how losing those kids have "hurt" the Razorbacks

[Soonerman12]

Yea, I hear you.

In the 2014 class, Arkansas signed players from Arizona, Texas, Florida, Missouri, Georgia, Louisiana, Minnesota, Iowa and already have commitments from Ohio and Texas in the 2015 class.  I guess we're a national brand also.

I guess when I say that I go off of rankings. I would say Arkansas is a national brand, as well. Just to a far less extent. That's not a slight, or jab, at Arkansas, either. Notre Damd, tOSU,Texas, Bama, USC, Florida and Florida State would be the only teams is say are in the same category as OU when it comes to national brands. OU logo is a top 6 seller, nationally. Arkansas is a big time regional seller.

Again, it's apples to oranges in comparison. Arkansas has the funds to become one if the elite. It's the homegrown talent in Arkansas that seems to be holding them back from taken the next step, in my opinion. You can name kids from Oklahoma that were all Americans and now all pro/pro bowlers in the league, just off the top of your head. Bradford( 2010 pro bowler/rookie if the year/heisman), Jermaine Greshsm, Gerald McCoy, Wes Welker, Chris Adams, Felix Jones, Ryan Broyles, Curtis Lofton, etc. If Arkansas can consistently produce 10 guys a year, in each class, that are BCS type kids they'll make massive gains. It's in-state foundation that starts it all.

[Vantage 8 dude]

I guess when I say that I go off of rankings. I would say Arkansas is a national brand, as well. Just to a far less extent. That's not a slight, or jab, at Arkansas, either. Notre Damd, tOSU,Texas, Bama, USC, Florida and Florida State would be the only teams is say are in the same category as OU when it comes to national brands. OU logo is a top 6 seller, nationally. Arkansas is a big time regional seller.

Again, it's apples to oranges in comparison. Arkansas has the funds to become one if the elite. It's the homegrown talent in Arkansas that seems to be holding them back from taken the next step, in my opinion. You can name kids from Oklahoma that were all Americans and now all pro/pro bowlers in the league, just off the top of your head. Bradford( 2010 pro bowler/rookie if the year/heisman), Jermaine Greshsm, Gerald McCoy, Wes Welker, Chris Adams, Felix Jones, Ryan Broyles, Curtis Lofton, etc. If Arkansas can consistently produce 10 guys a year, in each class, that are BCS type kids they'll make massive gains. It's in-state foundation that starts it all.

IMO there's one major fallicy to your argument. While I'll agree it would be nice to produce more instate D1 (SEC caliber) players, and certainly the Hogs get as many of those as possible, I rather doubt the #s will ever be consistently large enough to significantly man our classes. As we've had to to almost every year in the past the majority of our recruits are going to have to come from quality kids outside our borders.

That being said, I do believe many of the Arkansas high school districts could do much better jobs of upgrading the quality of programs within their areas. Prime example: with the exception of someone like Catholic, NLR and Pulaski Academy the pitifully low #s of college talent coming out of Pulaski County most years is shameful. Considering this represents the largest single pool of high school aged kids in Arkansas (and I'm not going to lump in the Fayetteville, Springdale and Rogers/Bentonville school districts together as they are distinctive from one another) AND throw in the recent decline of talent in most years coming out of Fort Smith Northside and Southside you have a definite developmental problem. Certainly unless/until these two large districts can boost their output the homegrown #s are going to continue lag badly.

[hambone]

Arkansas has not been doing fine with in state talent.

We have such a small recruiting base that we can't afford to lose ANY kids because, unlike Bama, we don't replace them with someone from out of state with equal caliber.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Arkansas produced 8 players who signed with BCS schools last year and we signed 5 of them.  Oklahoma produced 16 players who signed with BCS schools and half of them left Oklahoma.

That's only one year, but I don't see any advantage for Oklahoma, and yet, they're able to beat Alabama and play for national championships.

From 2010-2014 Oklahoma signed 122 players. 54 were from Texas (44.3%). 18 were from California (14.8%). 18 were from Oklahoma (14.8%). 12 were from SEC states other than Texas and Missouri (9.8%).

During the same time period Oklahoma State signed 130 players. 86 were from Texas (66.2%). 2 were from California (2.3%). 13 were from Oklahoma (10.0%). 15 were from SEC states other than Texas and Missouri (11.5%).

We need to recruit the southeastern U.S. heavily and Florida in particular, but even though there is a lot of competition for Texas recruits, we need to make inroads there as well.

And of course, nail down the top 4 or 5 from Arkansas every single year, provided that they play projected positions of need 2-3 years into the future.

[ricepig]

Arkansas has not been doing fine with in state talent.

We have such a small recruiting base that we can't afford to lose ANY kids because, unlike Bama, we don't replace them with someone from out of state with equal caliber.

Collins>Tenpenny

[hambone]

Collins>Tenpenny

Noone=Frazier

[ricepig]

Noone=Frazier

Too early to tell, no one and Frazier haven't played a down.

[Chief Mac]

Noone=Frazier

Bijhon Jackson says you're full of it

[ricepig]

Bijhon Jackson says you're full of it

Well, to be truthful, we wanted both.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Arkansas has not been doing fine with in state talent.

We have such a small recruiting base that we can't afford to lose ANY kids because, unlike Bama, we don't replace them with someone from out of state with equal caliber.

Careful about making absolute statements 'cause often such are found to be total b.s.

[Chief Mac]

Well, to be truthful, we wanted both.

we did but given how loyal Jackson was throughout the recruiting process, I can stomach losing that other guy that signed with the Tide

[hambone]

Bijhon Jackson says you're full of it

Seriously, your inability to understand what you read is tiresome.

Bijohn Jackson is not from outside this state.

I said, we do not replace the instate talent we lose with an equal caliber recruit from out of state.

[HometownHawg]

Seriously, your inability to understand what you read is tiresome.

Bijohn Jackson is not from outside this state.

I said, we do not replace the instate talent we lose with an equal caliber recruit from out of state.

And someone responded with AC for Tenpenny.

[redeye]

I guess when I say that I go off of rankings. I would say Arkansas is a national brand, as well. Just to a far less extent. That's not a slight, or jab, at Arkansas, either. Notre Damd, tOSU,Texas, Bama, USC, Florida and Florida State would be the only teams is say are in the same category as OU when it comes to national brands. OU logo is a top 6 seller, nationally. Arkansas is a big time regional seller.

Again, it's apples to oranges in comparison. Arkansas has the funds to become one if the elite. It's the homegrown talent in Arkansas that seems to be holding them back from taken the next step, in my opinion. You can name kids from Oklahoma that were all Americans and now all pro/pro bowlers in the league, just off the top of your head. Bradford( 2010 pro bowler/rookie if the year/heisman), Jermaine Greshsm, Gerald McCoy, Wes Welker, Chris Adams, Felix Jones, Ryan Broyles, Curtis Lofton, etc. If Arkansas can consistently produce 10 guys a year, in each class, that are BCS type kids they'll make massive gains. It's in-state foundation that starts it all.

I think it's impossible to have a conversation with an Oklahoma fan without him trying to sell Oklahoma as an elite program.  You can be discussing the nice weather and the Oklahoma fan will say it's just average because they're an elite team.

I don't know what Oklahoma being a national brand has to do with this topic, for instance, but you always find a way to bring it into every discussion.  To be quite honest, I think there are much better ways to tout Oklahoma, but that's just me.  I googled "collegiate merchandise ranking" and the first result was the 2012-13 ranking from CLC.  Funny enough, it shows Arkansas at #10 and Oklahoma at #11 (you can take some solace in knowing that FSU finished at #21.)

As for your belief that our homegrown talent is holding us back, the State of Oklahoma currently has 19 players in the NFL and Arkansas has 16.  In comparison, Mississippi has about the same population as Arkansas and has 32 players in the NFL, so we're no worse off then Oklahoma.  The best advantage UO has going for it is it's proximity to DFW metropolitan area.

[Hey Super]

I would argue that it's just that the state of Arkansas is ALL razorback ALL the time. I was born and raised in Dallas and caught hog fever after being there only 4 years. I get pissed when kids leave out of state and shun the U of A. I'm sure many feel the same. That's just the way it is.

[redeye]

While I agree that many recent instate recruits that have spurned Arkansas have struggled, there have been plenty to have great success in the past.  Just ask Soonerman about Keith Jackson.

Fact is that we would all love to have every SEC-caliber instate player, but we're not going to get them all and we're no different then anyone else in that regard.  In other words, it's not the program killer some of you believe it to be.  Whether we get them all or not, we're still going to have to recruit well outside the state to win championships.

[hambone]

And someone responded with AC for Tenpenny.

Which would still leave us with a THREE player defecit for J.Frazier, K. Frazier and M. Dyer.

Like I said, we don't replace what leaves with equal out of state talent. Dude used Bijohn Jackson for his proof. An instate guy.

[HometownHawg]

Which would still leave us with a THREE player defecit for J.Frazier, K. Frazier and M. Dyer.

Like I said, we don't replace what leaves with equal out of state talent. Dude used Bijohn Jackson for his proof. An instate guy.

Dyer is the only one who produced anything and that was just for a year.

[redeye]

Which would still leave us with a THREE player defecit for J.Frazier, K. Frazier and M. Dyer.

Like I said, we don't replace what leaves with equal out of state talent. Dude used Bijohn Jackson for his proof. An instate guy.

And you've also identified the problem, imo.  And it doesn't matter if they leave or not, our lack of success recruiting outside the state is still the bigger problem.

Having said that, I do think we have replaced those players.  If you're honest, it doesn't take much to say we replaced Kyle Frazier, and we still don't know what it will take to replace Josh, but Froholdt ought to do it.

[HawgFan70]

The thing I think hurts most is the connections other schools are making in this state and certain high schools. Take North Little Rock for instance the younger kids there looked up to Tenpenny, if they have another star player soon he may be more inclined to go to Bama because that is where one of his hs idols went.

[bennyl08]

Problem with the OP's statements. First, you need to say how many total 4 and 5* players there were. If they lost 10 5*'s over the past 5 years, but produced 30, then that wouldn't be a big deal. If they only produced 7, then it would be a big deal. Secondly, some posts have posted the total, but only for 1 year. You need much than that do determine a trend. For all we know that year could have been an anomaly. Finally, one needs to consider the level of national brand, distance from major recruiting hotbeds, and level of competition in those beds. For example, Bama and to a lesser extent, Auburn, have major national recognition. Even without that, they are closer in distance to a larger number of recruits with Florida being the only really nationally recruited state. Arkansas has a bit of a national brand, but not to their extent. Our biggest recruiting hotbed is Texas which is heavily recruited across the country.

I agree with your post in general, but you need more information to actually make the claims you pose.

[ricepig]

The thing I think hurts most is the connections other schools are making in this state and certain high schools. Take North Little Rock for instance the younger kids there looked up to Tenpenny, if they have another star player soon he may be more inclined to go to Bama because that is where one of his hs idols went.

Depends on if he does anything, lots of them looked up to Day, so there's that.....

[HawgFan70]

Depends on if he does anything, lots of them looked up to Day, so there's that.....

We will see the next time NLR has a stud that is offered by multiple schools including bama and Arkansas

[Chief Mac]

Seriously, your inability to understand what you read is tiresome.

Bijohn Jackson is not from outside this state.

I said, we do not replace the instate talent we lose with an equal caliber recruit from out of state.

seriously, I understood what was said.  Seriously, if my inputs are tiresome, there is an ignore feature

[ricepig]

O'Grady gets his offer.

[hawgfan4life]

Oklahoma doesn't produce a lot of four and five star talent every year.  Regardless of amounts, OU and OSU both failed to sign the top ranked player or two of the top few players most of the five years.  Point is that AR really isn't faring much different than other states with major BCS programs.

[redeye]

O'Grady gets his offer.

Yea, I saw that.  Said he now has an opportunity to live his dream and play for Arkansas.

[ricepig]

Yea, I saw that.  Said he now has an opportunity to live his dream and play for Arkansas.

Sounds good, It will be interesting to see if he sticks with his plans to commit later, I guess we'll see if he makes one of the AA games.

[Chief Mac]

Saw in one of Richard's columns that Isaac Davis' son, Cameron, is being recruited.  Isaac was a BEAST in high school and college.  Anyone have any info on his son?  Kid is 6'4 264 from Bryant

[redeye]

Saw in one of Richard's columns that Isaac Davis' son, Cameron, is being recruited.  Isaac was a BEAST in high school and college.  Anyone have any info on his son?  Kid is 6'4 264 from Bryant

I don't know much, but I think he mostly grew up outside the state and is a huge Oregon fan.  Having said that, I won't be surprised if we offer and he accepts.  Right now his only offer is from ASU, according to 247.