Please Explain "Can't Out - Bama Bama"

[Peter Porker]

I don't get this. What does it even mean. 0-4 means Petrino couldn't beat Bama doing his thing. There was a stat during a Bama game that said teams that ran a certain amount of times for a certain amount of plays usually beat Bama.

Please explain what "can't out Bama Alabama"  means.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

I like pie.

[Razorfox]

I think they mean that two similar or equal schemes will always favor the team that has the best players, which Bama will always have. 

In order to counteract that, the thought is you have to do something different that takes advantage of other characteristics, i.e. space, speed, etc. 

In one way, I get it.  As a military man, I know that one of the most effective ways for a lesser force to go against a superior force is to use guerilla tactics and/or irregular warfare, not to go against them force on force.  However, in another way, I don't think it makes sense in sport.  It doesn't transfer directly to football, because both teams can only have 11 players on the field at a time, have to play by the same rules, both only have 60 minutes, etc.  Guerilla warfare and irregular warfare basically change the rules and counts on extending the fight out to where the superior force loses interest (through the population that is). 

The fact of the matter is that Bama and other powerhouse programs have always and will continue to win most of their games.  They have done this because they have always had the same advantages they do today, not because they developed innovative schemes.  In the same way, superior military forces typically win their battles too even though guerilla warfare and irregular warfare can make it more annoying and protracted. 

[Dirty]

You can out Bama when Satan retires!

[longbore]

In 2011 when Alabama and LSU were ranked 1 & 2 who in the SEC scored more points against them than Arkansas?

[Razorfox]

In 2011 when Alabama and LSU were ranked 1 & 2 who in the SEC scored more points against them than Arkansas?

Well, AR scored 14 against Bama and 17 against LSU.  Of course we gave up 38 and 41 too. 

But to answer your question, Southern Georgia scored 21 against Bama and Oregon scored 27, West Virginia scored 21, and Bama scored 21 against LSU. 

[Oliver]

There were two teams that beat Bama this year and they both ran the HUNH.  It gave Saban's defense fits.  We don't need Bielema to change his offensive formations to run the HUNH.  You can run the HUNH in many different offenses. 

But I just don't believe you are going to out ball control Bama unless you recruit as well as Bama.  Which is why LSU has been the only team in a while to out-Bama Bama

[The NewEra]

I don't get this. What does it even mean. 0-4 means Petrino couldn't beat Bama doing his thing. There was a stat during a Bama game that said teams that ran a certain amount of times for a certain amount of plays usually beat Bama.

Please explain what "can't out Bama Alabama"  means.

Here is the answer from most of those that would say that:

*  I don't like coach B so I'm going to dump on anything he's trying to build.
*  I have attention deficit disorder and the only way you can keep me interested in a football game is to throw the ball all over the place.
*  I hate Jeff Long.
*  I heard someone say you "Can't out Bama Alabama" and it's a nice catch phrase that I can use without having to explain myself, since I really don't have a thought of my own.
*  I really don't know football, but behind the firewall I can claim to be 6'6", 345 lbs and 2% body fat.

From my perspective I have to ask this.  If you "Can't out Bama Alabama" then just what did Oklahoma do to them this year?

[hawgsalot]

In 2011 when Alabama and LSU were ranked 1 & 2 who in the SEC scored more points against them than Arkansas?

Que to new poster, please research a tad before you post it will save you some grief.

[longbore]

Que to new poster, please research a tad before you post it will save you some grief.

Not following?

[urkillnmesmalls]

That can be said for every team in the nation as long as Bama continually ends up number 1 in recruiting can't it?  Over the past two seasons, ONE PLAYER gave Bama all they could handle.  Manziel.  OK...let's say two, and include Evans.  The point is, Bama isn't invincible. 

I know it absolutely burns Saban's rear that Auburn and TAMU both run the hurry up, because it challenges his ability to counter them with defensive changes.  That is Saban's kryptonite from what I can see, and I'm not sure we shouldn't strive to implement something similar.   

[longbore]

Well, AR scored 14 against Bama and 17 against LSU.  Of course we gave up 38 and 41 too. 

But to answer your question, Southern Georgia scored 21 against Bama and Oregon scored 27, West Virginia scored 21, and Bama scored 21 against LSU.

You didn't answer the question.

[colbs]

My only problem with that theory is no matter what scheme Arkansas runs there is another team that runs that same scheme that according to recruiting rankings has better players.  If Arkansas runs the HUNH, so does Auburn and A&M.  Both are top 10 in recruiting every year.

[Razorfox]

There were two teams that beat Bama this year and they both ran the HUNH.  It gave Saban's defense fits.  We don't need Bielema to change his offensive formations to run the HUNH.  You can run the HUNH in many different offenses. 

But I just don't believe you are going to out ball control Bama unless you recruit as well as Bama.  Which is why LSU has been the only team in a while to out-Bama Bama

But what was the other things those teams had?  Talent basically as good as Bama. 

[Razorfox]

You didn't answer the question.

Yes I did. 

[Dark Helmet Hog]

All it takes in one good game plan, and get your kids emotionaly ready to play.

Think about this.

Nutt beat Bama his first year at Ole Miss. MOTHO beat Bama. Think about that. Let it sink in. It can be done, and they wern't exactly using a sophistated passing scheme.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

Most people don't have the courage or patience to out Bama Bama.  Most teams will just give in and say we can't and so we'd better try a gimmick and see if we can beat them once with that.

[urkillnmesmalls]

There were two teams that beat Bama this year and they both ran the HUNH.  It gave Saban's defense fits.  We don't need Bielema to change his offensive formations to run the HUNH.  You can run the HUNH in many different offenses. 

But I just don't believe you are going to out ball control Bama unless you recruit as well as Bama.  Which is why LSU has been the only team in a while to out-Bama Bama

Auburn, OU, what did they do?  They ran a HUNH, but they also defended pretty well too.  If you can't stop Bama's run, and their offense in general, then you're not going to beat them.  Like it or not...those two teams managed to defend them well enough to win the games. 

Again...everyone talks about the offense, but you still have to stop the opponent.  THAT's where we've been lacking the most the past two seasons, and until that changes, we can argue until we're blue in the face about what offense will work, blah, blah, blah.  We can't hold Bama under 50 pts until further notice...and if that doesn't change, it won't matter. 

[longbore]

Yes I did.

Yeah you did. I've got mush brain. Momma used to put vodka in my bottles and if that didn't work she would shake me violently.

[bphi11ips]

I think they mean that two similar or equal schemes will always favor the team that has the best players, which Bama will always have. 

In order to counteract that, the thought is you have to do something different that takes advantage of other characteristics, i.e. space, speed, etc. 

In one way, I get it.  As a military man, I know that one of the most effective ways for a lesser force to go against a superior force is to use guerilla tactics and/or irregular warfare, not to go against them force on force.  However, in another way, I don't think it makes sense in sport.  It doesn't transfer directly to football, because both teams can only have 11 players on the field at a time, have to play by the same rules, both only have 60 minutes, etc.  Guerilla warfare and irregular warfare basically change the rules and counts on extending the fight out to where the superior force loses interest (through the population that is). 

The fact of the matter is that Bama and other powerhouse programs have always and will continue to win most of their games.  They have done this because they have always had the same advantages they do today, not because they developed innovative schemes.  In the same way, superior military forces typically win their battles too even though guerilla warfare and irregular warfare can make it more annoying and protracted. 

Excellent post.  Maybe the best I've seen yet on this subject.

I'll boil it down to this:  Some of us are scared of Alabama. 

[Razorfox]

Auburn, OU, what did they do?  They ran a HUNH, but they also defended pretty well too.  If you can't stop Bama's run, and their offense in general, then you're not going to beat them.  Like it or not...those two teams managed to defend them well enough to win the games. 

Again...everyone talks about the offense, but you still have to stop the opponent.  THAT's where we've been lacking the most the past two seasons, and until that changes, we can argue until we're blue in the face about what offense will work, blah, blah, blah.  We can't hold Bama under 50 pts until further notice...and if that doesn't change, it won't matter. 

The HUNH offense is not the common thread that beat Bama.  Auburn ran the ball down Bama's throat and beat them in the special teams play.  Oklahoma beat Bama with superior pass rush that led to a rash of turnovers. 

[ArkansasBread3]

I don't get this. What does it even mean. 0-4 means Petrino couldn't beat Bama doing his thing. There was a stat during a Bama game that said teams that ran a certain amount of times for a certain amount of plays usually beat Bama.

Please explain what "can't out Bama Alabama"  means.

I think it is so stupid that people say you can not do that. Since when did Alabama invent the pro style offense.
If people are going to say you can not out Bama and that we should go to a more gimmicky up tempo offense, well guess what we can not out Texas AM or Auburn. So what is our next choice. That argument is just stupid

[trashcan maN]

I like pie.

frito or a sort of fruit pie?

[urkillnmesmalls]

The HUNH offense is not the common thread that beat Bama.  Auburn ran the ball down Bama's throat and beat them in the special teams play.  Oklahoma beat Bama with superior pass rush that led to a rash of turnovers.

Uh...so you're going to argue that the "running it down Bama's throat" was completely independent of using the HUNH to keep their defense winded, and not allow them to substitute on 3rd downs and other critical points in the game?  I disagree, but that's fine.  TAMU had every reason to beat them, but their defense was TERRIBLE.  The HUNH absolutely helps the cause against Saban, and the evidence is there to support that theory over the last two seasons.  You can feel his disdain for it.   

In truth, I think Bama mailed it in for the OU game, but I'll agree with you that OU's defense was the difference.  Which again...is why I think the impetus on BB needs to be to improve our defense. 

[trashcan maN]

I think it is so stupid that people say you can not do that. Since when did Alabama invent the pro style offense.
If people are going to say you can not out Bama and that we should go to a more gimmicky up tempo offense, well guess what we can not out Texas AM or Auburn. So what is our next choice. That argument is just stupid

We should also stop recruiting good students because we can't out Vandy Vandy. I also don't think we should play a 4-3 because you can't out LSU LSU..their DL is too good

[urkillnmesmalls]

I think it is so stupid that people say you can not do that. Since when did Alabama invent the pro style offense.
If people are going to say you can not out Bama and that we should go to a more gimmicky up tempo offense, well guess what we can not out Texas AM or Auburn. So what is our next choice. That argument is just stupid

They didn't invent it.  But...in CFB, they have used it to their advantage, because it's NOT an even playing field.  In the Pros, you spend wisely and choose wisely, and you can use it to beat people.  In CFB, you field the best 22 players from superior recruiting, and in theory you should have an inherent advantage. 

But it's certainly not invincible.  SC beat them in 2010 without doing anything special, and I think OU stunned a lot of people last season with their win. 

Limit mistakes, win the turnover battle, and execute better...and ANY team can line up and beat Bama with ANY style.  I totally believe that. 

[urkillnmesmalls]

frito or a sort of fruit pie?

Duh...ANY pie sillyhead.  I have no idea why people prefer cake.  I'd rather have a Birthday Pie.  Stick a candle in there...I'm good to go.   

[Jek Tono Porkins]

The best way to TRY to beat  Bama is to play defense and force turnovers. Look at their losses:
2011- Lost to LSU 6-9 in OT.
2012- Lost to Texas A&M 24-29. Bama scored 21 against LSU but other than that game A&M held them to their lowest point total of the year. McCarron threw 66% of his INT's for the year against A&M. Manziel did not "give them fits" as people suggest. He threw for 253 yards and two touchdowns. Just because A&M beat Bama does not mean that Manziel went crazy against them. Also note that the next year, A&M put up more points but didn't play defense and lost.
2013-Lost a freak game to Auburn, can't really blame it on anything. Auburn ran for nearly 300 yards and there were some very un-Saban like decisions being made in the 4th quarter.
-Lost a game to Oklahoma because they had 5 turnovers.

Newsflash: We're not going to beat Bama as long as Saban is there so you might as well get used to it.

[bphi11ips]

They didn't invent it.  But...in CFB, they have used it to their advantage, because it's NOT an even playing field.  In the Pros, you spend wisely and choose wisely, and you can use it to beat people.  In CFB, you field the best 22 players from superior recruiting, and in theory you should have an inherent advantage. 

But it's certainly not invincible.  SC beat them in 2010 without doing anything special, and I think OU stunned a lot of people last season with their win. 

Limit mistakes, win the turnover battle, and execute better...and ANY team can line up and beat Bama with ANY style.  I totally believe that. 

Truth.

1995 - Arkansas 20 Alabama 19
1997 - Arkansas 17 Alabama 16
1998 - Arkansas 42 Alabama 6
2000 - Arkansas 28 Alabama 21
2003 - Arkansas 34 Alabama 31
2004 - Arkansas 27 Alabama 10
2006 - Arkansas 24 Alabama 23

What were Danny Ford and Houston Nutt up to? 

[bphi11ips]

Newsflash: We're not going to beat Bama as long as Saban is there so you might as well get used to it.

Nonsense. 

[urkillnmesmalls]

The best way to TRY to beat  Bama is to play defense and force turnovers. Look at their losses:
2011- Lost to LSU 6-9 in OT.
2012- Lost to Texas A&M 24-29. Bama scored 21 against LSU but other than that game A&M held them to their lowest point total of the year. McCarron threw 66% of his INT's for the year against A&M. Manziel did not "give them fits" as people suggest. He threw for 253 yards and two touchdowns. Just because A&M beat Bama does not mean that Manziel went crazy against them. Also note that the next year, A&M put up more points but didn't play defense and lost.
2013-Lost a freak game to Auburn, can't really blame it on anything. Auburn ran for nearly 300 yards and there were some very un-Saban like decisions being made in the 4th quarter.
-Lost a game to Oklahoma because they had 5 turnovers.

Newsflash: We're not going to beat Bama as long as Saban is there so you might as well get used to it.

We had 'em in 2010, but ran out of defensive depth.  SC beat them in 2010 doing nothing special.  They CHOKED in 2010 with a big lead against Auburn.  Got lucky in 2011 to even play in the NC game after losing to LSU at home in the game you outlined above. 

Our fans are intimidated by them, because they seem to be able to hang 50 on us at will.  You can have an offense with competent players, but a few difference makers, and have some success at times.  Doing that on defense is a different matter, and for the past two seasons, we have been horrible on defense.  They just line up and do what they want.  If we don't change that...you're right...we won't beat Bama, and a lot of other teams. 

[ArkansasBread3]

They didn't invent it.  But...in CFB, they have used it to their advantage, because it's NOT an even playing field.  In the Pros, you spend wisely and choose wisely, and you can use it to beat people.  In CFB, you field the best 22 players from superior recruiting, and in theory you should have an inherent advantage. 

But it's certainly not invincible.  SC beat them in 2010 without doing anything special, and I think OU stunned a lot of people last season with their win. 

Limit mistakes, win the turnover battle, and execute better...and ANY team can line up and beat Bama with ANY style.  I totally believe that.

agree with you.. just sounds like a crappy excuse when people say we can't run the style of team that CBB wants bc we can not out BAMA in players. In the long run I think CBB style will put us in a better position to win games.

[MiHogsMi]

I don't get this. What does it even mean. 0-4 means Petrino couldn't beat Bama doing his thing. There was a stat during a Bama game that said teams that ran a certain amount of times for a certain amount of plays usually beat Bama.

Please explain what "can't out Bama Alabama"  means.

It means that it will most likely be futile to try to duplicate the Alabama model here at Arkansas and beat Alabama head to head, who have perfected their model in the SEC.

CBB trying to bring in a big 10 mentality and "match-up" against THE STANDARD is going to prove futile in the minds of many.  Why?  We can't out recruit them for one thing.  It only stands to reason that the better player will beat his counterpart when competing on the better player's terms.  That's why the more successful coaches do not try to beat the likes of Alabama and LSU on their terms,  rather, they develop strategies and schemes to try to avoid playing on Alabama's terms.  Think David and Goliath.  David couldn't out "out-Goliath Goliath".  He used stones and a sling.

[footballfan]

Truth.

1995 - Arkansas 20 Alabama 19
1997 - Arkansas 17 Alabama 16
1998 - Arkansas 42 Alabama 6
2000 - Arkansas 28 Alabama 21
2003 - Arkansas 34 Alabama 31
2004 - Arkansas 27 Alabama 10
2006 - Arkansas 24 Alabama 23

What were Danny Ford and Houston Nutt up to?

Well let's see......

In 97 bama was 4-7 and coached by mike dubose.
In 98 bama was 7-5 and coached by mike dubose.
In 00 they were 3-8 and coached by mike dubose
In 03 they were 4-9 and coached by mike shula.
In 04 they were 6-6 and coached by mike shula
In 06 they were  6-7 and coached by mike shula.
Our one decent win was in 95 when we beat a bama team that finished 8-3 and ranked 20th.

So to sum up, we've beaten only two bama teams that finished with winning records. And only one ranked bama team (that barely finished top 20).

Do you really think any of that helps us against bama with saban?

Really? Or did you not think this post out too well?

[trashcan maN]

It means that it will most likely be futile to try to duplicate the Alabama model here at Arkansas and beat Alabama head to head, who have perfected their model in the SEC.

CBB trying to bring in a big 10 mentality and "match-up" against THE STANDARD is going to prove futile in the minds of many.  Why?  We can't out recruit them for one thing.  It only stands to reason that the better player will beat his counterpart when competing on the better player's terms.  That's why the more successful coaches do not try to beat the likes of Alabama and LSU on their terms,  rather, they develop strategies and schemes to try to avoid playing on Alabama's terms.  Think David and Golith.  David couldn't out "out-Golith Golith".  He used stones and a sling.

Haven't heard of this Golith. Was he a bada**?

[MiHogsMi]

Haven't heard of this Golith. Was he a bada**?

He was against all those who took him on trying to beat him on his terms.  Yet he got his head chopped off by a smaller, quicker young lad that was too smart to fight him head to head.  He decided to fight him on his own terms which was to use a rock and a sling. 

[Oliver]

Auburn, OU, what did they do?  They ran a HUNH, but they also defended pretty well too.  If you can't stop Bama's run, and their offense in general, then you're not going to beat them.  Like it or not...those two teams managed to defend them well enough to win the games. 

Again...everyone talks about the offense, but you still have to stop the opponent.  THAT's where we've been lacking the most the past two seasons, and until that changes, we can argue until we're blue in the face about what offense will work, blah, blah, blah.  We can't hold Bama under 50 pts until further notice...and if that doesn't change, it won't matter. 

Their defense was nothing special.  Auburn gave up 28 and OU gave up a TON of yards and 30+ points.  Why didn't they give up 50+ like we did?  Because their offense could sustain drives and score.  We've scored 0 points against Bama in two straight years.  Short of putting the 85 Bears defense on the field, your defense is going to be screwed if your offense can't move the ball.  And inept is too positive of a word to describe our offensive performances against Bama.

[footballfan]

All it takes in one good game plan, and get your kids emotionaly ready to play.

Think about this.

Nutt beat Bama his first year at Ole Miss. MOTHO beat Bama. Think about that. Let it sink in. It can be done, and they wern't exactly using a sophistated passing scheme.

No he didn't.  Jesus do some of you just make crap up as you go along? Seriously, is google THAT hard to use?

[Jek Tono Porkins]

It means that it will most likely be futile to try to duplicate the Alabama model here at Arkansas and beat Alabama head to head, who have perfected their model in the SEC.

CBB trying to bring in a big 10 mentality and "match-up" against THE STANDARD is going to prove futile in the minds of many.  Why?  We can't out recruit them for one thing.  It only stands to reason that the better player will beat his counterpart when competing on the better player's terms.  That's why the more successful coaches do not try to beat the likes of Alabama and LSU on their terms,  rather, they develop strategies and schemes to try to avoid playing on Alabama's terms.  Think David and Goliath.  David couldn't out "out-Goliath Goliath".  He used stones and a sling.

Bret Bielema was severely out-recruited by Ohio state from the time he became the Wisconsin head coach.
From 2006-2010 Wisconsin signed the following highly rated recruits:
5* recruits- 1
4* recruits- 6
In the same time period, Ohio State signed the following highly rated recruits:
5* recruits- 8
4* recruits- 41

So why don't you tell us all the strategies and schemes that Bielema used to kick Ohio State's ass in 2010 when they had Terrelle Pryor?

[HF#1]

If you match Alabama's physicality then you have a chance to win.  If you play soft (Like Petrino's teams) you get curbstomped.

[MiHogsMi]

Bret Bielema was severely out-recruited by Ohio state from the time he became the Wisconsin head coach.
From 2006-2010 Wisconsin signed the following highly rated recruits:
5* recruits- 1
4* recruits- 6
In the same time period, Ohio State signed the following highly rated recruits:
5* recruits- 8
4* recruits- 41

So why don't you tell us all the strategies and schemes that Bielema used to kick Ohio State's ass in 2010 when they had Terrelle Pryor?

I have no idea....why don't you answer your own question. 

The OP asked a question.  I'm one of thousands of posters here on Hogville.  I gave the OP an answer as I see it. 

[footballfan]

Bret Bielema was severely out-recruited by Ohio state from the time he became the Wisconsin head coach.
From 2006-2010 Wisconsin signed the following highly rated recruits:
5* recruits- 1
4* recruits- 6
In the same time period, Ohio State signed the following highly rated recruits:
5* recruits- 8
4* recruits- 41

So why don't you tell us all the strategies and schemes that Bielema used to kick Ohio State's ass in 2010 when they had Terrelle Pryor?

Bielema was severely outrecruited by ohio state and that is reflected in his 1-4 record against them.

[bphi11ips]

 
Well let's see......

In 97 bama was 4-7 and coached by mike dubose.
In 98 bama was 7-5 and coached by mike dubose.
In 00 they were 3-8 and coached by mike dubose
In 03 they were 4-9 and coached by mike shula.
In 04 they were 6-6 and coached by mike shula
In 06 they were  6-7 and coached by mike shula.
Our one decent win was in 95 when we beat a bama team that finished 8-3 and ranked 20th.

So to sum up, we've beaten only two bama teams that finished with winning records. And only one ranked bama team (that barely finished top 20).

Do you really think any of that helps us against bama with saban?

Really? Or did you not think this post out too well?

I suspected someone would be quick to point out we didn't beat vintage Alabama teams. 

College football is measured in decades.  Your point appears to be that Alabama is invincible and will be forevermore.  You may be right, but Arkansas will still show up for the games.   

[EastexHawg]

We're not going to beat Bama as long as Saban is there so you might as well get used to it.

Ah, the lowering expectations strategy.  Solid.

[thirrdegreetusker]

That can be said for every team in the nation as long as Bama continually ends up number 1 in recruiting can't it?  Over the past two seasons, ONE PLAYER gave Bama all they could handle.  Manziel.  OK...let's say two, and include Evans.  The point is, Bama isn't invincible. 

I know it absolutely burns Saban's rear that Auburn and TAMU both run the hurry up, because it challenges his ability to counter them with defensive changes.  That is Saban's kryptonite from what I can see, and I'm not sure we shouldn't strive to implement something similar.   

Bama lost the OU game on offense. Even though their running backs averaged gained 7 yards a carry, the RBs had 25 carries, versus 40 pass plays called. OUs defense was built to win 7v7 games, not play in the SEC. My gosh, OU had a DE that was the size of an SEC running back. But Bama coaches lost their minds, and let OU dictate tempo and, inconceivably, Bama's offensive play-calling.

OU had no answer for DHenry, so why didn't Bama just run Henry, Henry, Yeldon, Henry, Yeldon...........? If Bama had done that, OUs defensive coaches would have been curled up on the sidelines in the fetal postion, whining softly, rocking back and forth. OUs offensive coaches would have had about a half hour between possessions.

[footballfan]

I suspected someone would be quick to point out we didn't beat vintage Alabama teams. 

College football is measured in decades.  Your point appears to be that Alabama is invincible and will be forevermore.  You may be right, but Arkansas will still show up for the games.   

No my point is its retarded to trumpet past wins against Alabama when they had crappy records and coaching as if it has anything to do with the Alabama we play right now.

[FANONTHEHILL]

HUNH or Power I, you have to play defense to beat Bama, LSU and A&M for that matter.

[bphi11ips]

No my point is its retarded to trumpet past wins against Alabama when they had crappy records and coaching as if it has anything to do with the Alabama we play right now.

You're right.  It's probably time to get out of the SEC while we still can. 

[dwcherr]

Bielema was severely outrecruited by ohio state and that is reflected in his 1-4 record against them.

1-5 I think actually

[footballfan]

You're right.  It's probably time to get out of the SEC while we still can.

Or, you know, try a strategy that might actually win. But I can understand why you don't want to deal with reality.