Little Rock Top 3 fan base in the nation

[IllinoisRazorbackFan]

It's a really sensitive subject to all those who hate the thought of games in WMS.  This isn't even a GSD issue, but look at all the misinformation and crazy analogies above.  RRS seats almost twice as many as WMS?  C'mon man!  RRS max is 76,000 and WMS is 55,000.  That comes to 72.3%.  You know the situation was reversed for decades.  RS was 38,000 for years while WMS was 54,000.  70.3%.  Not that it matters now.  Only one game per year is left in LR.  Three or four were in Fayetteville even when 4 were in LR.  Big deal.  That's where the campus is!

If Florida State had used Miami for 50 years to build its program, Miami would have something to bitch about when Florida State decided Miami wasn't useful anymore.  Likewise with Georgia and Va Tech.  Don't raise Birmingham because it's less than an hour from Tuscaloosa.  Tennessee played one home game per year in Memphis forever, even when they had a stadium on campus that seated 40,000 more fans.  And guess what?  Memphis to this day has a stronger UT fanbase than Nashville, where it only plays every other year as the visitor. 

We all get it by now no matter where we live or attend games.  It's okay.  Really.  Talk about the Angry Divide.  It isn't BP vs. GM vs. BB vs. JL vs. HDN.  It's NWA vs. the rest of the state, and the anger appears to be coming almost exclusively from NWA.  It's silly.  The Razorbacks were built on the athletes and alumni and other fans and contributors from the entire state.  If you want it you can have it.  Most of you think the program sucks anyway.

i think you just killed the thread, nobody from the NWA camp will be able to overcome this.  NWA rarely sells out anyway and they can't afford the program by themselves.  I hope everyone understands the magnitude of this, NWA can't afford a team that recruits near dead last in the SEC and has traditionally been bad for 30 years. 

[bphi11ips]

Well, as a UofA alum, I can honestly say I love the University and The Razorbacks. I love going to games in both Fayetteville AND Little Rock.
I hate the GSD but understand why many feel the way they do. It's "Emotion vs Economics", and that's a tough call to make for the powers-that-be. When I commented earlier on "OU-OKC", I certainly wasn't trying to bring the GSD into the thread. I just found it interesting that of the 5 cities, three were basically in the city where the school is located, one (Birmingham) is what?...60 miles from Tuscaloosa, and the other was LR, by far the furthest distance from the school's campus.

I wasn't suggesting you brought the GSD into it.  It's a few above who seized on an opportunity to jump in and create controversy where none exists.  In doing so they make some pretty silly statements.  It's the pettiness and misrepresentations of fact and attempts at analogy where none exist that detract from the general discussion of the GSD.  All the OP did was show that a comparatively high percentage of Little Rock residents watch the Razorbacks ON TELEVISION and listen to them ON THE RADIO.  This is good information for ADVERTISERS.  The ultimate beneficiaries where this issue is concerned are broadcasters selling advertising intended to reach Little Rock residents.

Your point about OKC is well taken to the extent that Little Rock's remote location from campus when compared to the other cities in the Top 5 may indicate that Little Rock's loyalty is due at least in part to the Razorbacks presence there for generations.  This would be a reasonable hypothesis to most people.   

[Torqued pork]

The GSD will outlive Arkansas football.

[Inhogswetrust]

Well, as a UofA alum, I can honestly say I love the University and The Razorbacks. I love going to games in both Fayetteville AND Little Rock.
I hate the GSD but understand why many feel the way they do. It's "Emotion vs Economics", and that's a tough call to make for the powers-that-be. When I commented earlier on "OU-OKC", I certainly wasn't trying to bring the GSD into the thread. I just found it interesting that of the 5 cities, three were basically in the city where the school is located, one (Birmingham) is what?...60 miles from Tuscaloosa, and the other was LR, by far the furthest distance from the school's campus.

This is it in a nutshell. Things change. I love games in WMS AND RRS because it's the HOGS. But I prefer games in RRS and think long-term it would be best to move them all there. My reasons are my own. Some are selfish in nature and some are because I think it is best for the Athletes, financially and our ability to compete. I may be wrong or right. Others have different reasons and different opinions. I DO understand why others disagree though even though they may not all have the same reason and disagree with me completely.

[LZH]

They also have Birmingham listed for the Tide and OKC listed for the Sooners. Those teams don't play in those towns. It also said WATCHED, ATTENDED or LISTENED. Two of those three have nothing to do with WHERE the team is playing.

Yeah, that made me wonder how far down the list Auburn and Oklahoma State were...especially Auburn, since they had such a surprisingly good year.  Ohio State, Arkansas, and Tennessee are programs that pretty much have their respective state to themselves.  The fact that OU and 'Bama are pulling similar numbers in states with a 'little brother' school in the same conference says alot to me.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

Can't watch the games on tv if you're at them in person. That's why the LR market got ranked so high. They are all watching from home.

Since the stats count those who attend, or watch, or listen, I think those "at them" count.   So Fay town, B town, Spring town, Rog town and all the rest of NWA simply got beat by Little Rock fair and square.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

This is it in a nutshell. Things change. I love games in WMS AND RRS because it's the HOGS. But I prefer games in RRS and think long-term it would be best to move them all there. My reasons are my own. Some are selfish in nature and some are because I think it is best for the Athletes, financially and our ability to compete. I may be wrong or right. Others have different reasons and different opinions. I DO understand why others disagree though even though they may not all have the same reason and disagree with me completely.

If you're going to be reasonable and accept those who disagree we're gonna have to penalize you fifteen yards.

[LZH]

Since the stats count those who attend, or watch, or listen, I think those "at them" count.   So Fay town, B town, Spring town, Rog town and all the rest of NWA simply got beat by Little Rock fair and square.

I believe they just counted the major metro areas closest to those schools.  Fayetteville and Tuscaloosa aren't very large TV markets.

[bphi11ips]

This is it in a nutshell. Things change. I love games in WMS AND RRS because it's the HOGS. But I prefer games in RRS and think long-term it would be best to move them all there. My reasons are my own. Some are selfish in nature and some are because I think it is best for the Athletes, financially and our ability to compete. I may be wrong or right. Others have different reasons and different opinions. I DO understand why others disagree though even though they may not all have the same reason and disagree with me completely.

There may be many good reasons to play all the games in RRS.  I haven't expressed an opinion here whether that is best for the program but have argued both side of the issue here for years.  I grew up going to games in both places.  They are both great when full and rocking, and that happens more often than not most years.

The "economic" impact of games in Little Rock is a red herring.  The 9-game SEC schedule, the game in Dallas, the recruiting limitations, and the overall condition of WMS are bigger issues.  Arkansas's athletic budget is $76,000,000.  The cost to play one game in Little Rock is a little more than 1% of the budget.  It is virtually impossible to make an accurate nonmonetary cost-benefit analysis of moving the last game to Fayetteville.  I don't know if Jeff Long the politician wants to be the one to make that call.     

[DoctorSusscrofa]

I believe they just counted the major metro areas closest to those schools.  Fayetteville and Tuscaloosa aren't very large TV markets.

Cincinnati is right around 2 hours or less from Columbus, Ohio (Ohio State), but the list includes Columbus and doesn't seem to include Cincinnati (at least in the top 5). If they only want to list large markets, and the stats are somehow skewed to benefit the bigger populations of those markets, then I'm stumped why they would list Columbus and Cincy is nonexistent.  I doubt whether this is just a "large market" analysis.  Columbus is bigger than Fayetteville, but I doubt that this survey left out any of these markets.  Nielsen knows these markets and these schools well.  If you have specific evidence that Fayetteville was not measured at all then I know a thread you could post the evidence on.  My guess is that they are somewhere on the list, but not in the top 5.

[DeltaBoy]

Central Ark is over 700,000 people vs NWA So that why we have more fans.

Map of Arkansas highlighting the Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR Metropolitan Statistical Area.
The Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR Metropolitan Statistical Area, as defined by the United States Census Bureau, is a six-county area in central Arkansas, and anchored by state's capital and largest city, Little Rock. The total MSA population in United States Census estimate 2012 was 717,666 people, having grown from 610,518 people in 2000.[1]

Prior to 2002, the area consisted of four core counties: Pulaski, Faulkner, Saline and Lonoke. The area was later expanded to include adjoining Perry County to the west, and Grant County to the south. The city of Conway was designated as a third principal city for the metro area by 2007.

The MSA additionally shares a Combined statistical area with the three-county Pine Bluff metropolitan area and the Searcy micropolitan area in White County. This CSA had a 2012 population of 893,610 people.

[Inhogswetrust]

If you're going to be reasonable and accept those who disagree we're gonna have to penalize you fifteen yards.

Haha. Put me in the penalty box instead so I can bang the glass in front of the opposing fans. That's great the way they do it in Hockey.! Can you imagine if they had to take a player off the field and let him sit in front of fans on the sidelines at football games if they got a penalty!

[Inhogswetrust]

There may be many good reasons to play all the games in RRS.  I haven't expressed an opinion here whether that is best for the program but have argued both side of the issue here for years.  I grew up going to games in both places.  They are both great when full and rocking, and that happens more often than not most years.

The "economic" impact of games in Little Rock is a red herring.  The 9-game SEC schedule, the game in Dallas, the recruiting limitations, and the overall condition of WMS are bigger issues.  Arkansas's athletic budget is $76,000,000.  The cost to play one game in Little Rock is a little more than 1% of the budget.  It is virtually impossible to make an accurate nonmonetary cost-benefit analysis of moving the last game to Fayetteville.  I don't know if Jeff Long the politician wants to be the one to make that call.     

That's why economic (financial) is only one of the reasons I listed. I know it probably isn't a large part in the grand scheme of the total budget but it can add up over time. If 1% is accurate and I won't dispute it then that is $760,000 per year. Over 10 years thats $7.6 million. Not big but not chicken feed either. That could pay for some maintenance on some of the other non revenue sports or something. What if you could put that into a larger pool for assistant coaches salaries for example? Another question would be does that 1% also include the lost opportunity cost of playing and perhaps getting more revenue in RRS as well? I honestly don't know.

[bphi11ips]

Central Ark is over 700,000 people vs NWA So that why we have more fans.

Map of Arkansas highlighting the Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR Metropolitan Statistical Area.
The Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR Metropolitan Statistical Area, as defined by the United States Census Bureau, is a six-county area in central Arkansas, and anchored by state's capital and largest city, Little Rock. The total MSA population in United States Census estimate 2012 was 717,666 people, having grown from 610,518 people in 2000.[1]

Prior to 2002, the area consisted of four core counties: Pulaski, Faulkner, Saline and Lonoke. The area was later expanded to include adjoining Perry County to the west, and Grant County to the south. The city of Conway was designated as a third principal city for the metro area by 2007.

The MSA additionally shares a Combined statistical area with the three-county Pine Bluff metropolitan area and the Searcy micropolitan area in White County. This CSA had a 2012 population of 893,610 people.

The NWA MSA estimate for 2012 is 482,000.  It takes both MSA's and then some to fill a 76,000 seat stadium or a 55,000 seat stadium.

Arkansas and Dade County, Florida have approximately the same population.  Dade County's African-American population is about 133% of Arkansas's population. 

It will take the support of the entire state of Arkansas to fill the roster and the stands.  The only reason we have been so good in the past is because the Razorbacks have been the state's team for a century.

[bphi11ips]

That's why economic (financial) is only one of the reasons I listed. I know it probably isn't a large part in the grand scheme of the total budget but it can add up over time. If 1% is accurate and I won't dispute it then that is $760,000 per year. Over 10 years thats $7.6 million. Not big but not chicken feed either. That could pay for some maintenance on some of the other non revenue sports or something. What if you could put that into a larger pool for assistant coaches salaries for example? Another question would be does that 1% also include the lost opportunity cost of playing and perhaps getting more revenue in RRS as well? I honestly don't know.

The number I have seen is closer to a million dollars per game, which is about 1.3% of the budget.  That is not chicken feed in a vacuum.  It's not a huge number in the scheme of things when compared with the UA endowment.  I've compared ASU's and UA's endowments over the years several times here and asked if there might be a chance the football team's domination of the state's football landscape, aided to some extent by a century of games in Little Rock, might be at least partly responsible for UA's endowment being 18 times larger than ASU's.  Crazy?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Compare Ole Miss and MSU.  They have divided the state of Mississippi footballwise for a century.  Ole Miss's is larger, but only by about 30%.  And how much of that differential is driven by traditionally being the better football team?

Don't kid yourself about what a football team means to alumni and donors.  I'll promise you Jeff Long and those he answers to don't.   

[Inhogswetrust]

The number I have seen is closer to a million dollars per game, which is about 1.3% of the budget.  That is not chicken feed in a vacuum.  It's not a huge number in the scheme of things when compared with the UA endowment.  I've compared ASU's and UA's endowments over the years several times here and asked if there might be a chance the football team's domination of the state's football landscape, aided to some extent by a century of games in Little Rock, might be at least partly responsible for UA's endowment being 18 times larger than ASU's.  Crazy?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Compare Ole Miss and MSU.  They have divided the state of Mississippi footballwise for a century.  Ole Miss's is larger, but only by about 30%.  And how much of that differential is driven by traditionally being the better football team?

Don't kid yourself about what a football team means to alumni and donors.  I'll promise you Jeff Long and those he answers to don't.   

Being an Alum I would never kid about that! Football and big time sports in general means a great deal to a school.

[The Boar War]

Only Razorback fans could argue about being one of the top 3 fan bases.

Do you think they're having this conversation in Alabama?

[RNHog]

Only Razorback fans could argue about being one of the top 3 fan bases.

Do you think they're having this conversation in Alabama?

My thoughts exactly. How dare central Arkansas being included! Blasphemy!

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Only Razorback fans could argue about being one of the top 3 fan bases.

Do you think they're having this conversation in Alabama?

Naw, they're probably arguing over poisoning historic Oak trees, shooting people for not being upset over a loss, and Lane Kiffin. You know, normal stuff.

[BorderPatrol]

i think you just killed the thread, nobody from the NWA camp will be able to overcome this.  NWA rarely sells out anyway and they can't afford the program by themselves.  I hope everyone understands the magnitude of this, NWA can't afford a team that recruits near dead last in the SEC and has traditionally been bad for 30 years.

Two things....

1. Even when DWRS does not sell out, there is always more tickets sold than can even come close to fitting into WMS.

2. WTH are you talking about, can't afford?

bp

[bphi11ips]

Two things....

1. Even when DWRS does not sell out, there is always more tickets sold than can even come close to fitting into WMS.

Come close?  WMS seats 55,000.  Depends upon how you define "close".

In any event, 63,007 > 55,000.  You are correct.  All of you who focus exclusively on this fact are no different than single-issue voters.  I don't believe the members of the Board of Trustees or the UA administration fall into that category on this subject.   

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Keep in mind this includes "watching games on TV"  & "listening to games on the radio", in addition to attending.

[Jimmy]

The populations of Benton & Washington Counties have the 2 lowest percentages of native Arkansans in the state.  Eventually, as families grow into 2nd generation Arkansans, there will be more support for the Hogs.....on radio, TV, and in the stands.  There are still many newcomers in NWA who eschew anything Arkansas.  That will change with time as they realize they can either accept being in Arkansas or move back to where they came from.  They'll probably stay, however.  Jobs matter. 

[bphi11ips]

Keep in mind this includes "watching games on TV"  & "listening to games on the radio", in addition to attending.

So it includes Little Rock residents who attend games in Fayetteville.