The Angry Divide

[Atlhogfan1]

I think I understand now.  True Razorback fans, the real diehards, are the ones telling everyone else how limited our program is and that it's unrealistic and ridiculous to ever expect greatness.  We should accept, even learn to enjoy and embrace, mediocrity with an occasional pretty good season sprinkled in.

The haters, on the other hand, are the people who don't want to settle.  They point out that we've seen national prominence, even in the last few years, and ask why we can't climb the mountain instead of standing around at the bottom, looking toward the top, and commiserating about how difficult and unlikely the ascent would be.

No, you clearly don't still. 

Why would a Razorback fan never expect greatness?  The program has shown it is possible.

Do you describe 2010 and 11 as "occasional good seasons"?  I think they were a little more than that. Why would someone believe we couldn't get back there or be in a position like we were in the second half of the SECCG in 2006?   Our program is capable of more as in winning the SEC or making the playoff at some point.

I don't label fans as haters.  But there is a group that seems to believe a rebuild should have never had to have taken place and ignore the circumstances that caused it.  You will keep ripping at the program and the rest of us like a child throwing a tantrum because you believe our program is too good to ever be in the place we are in.  You think we should just be able to go right back to the Friday night after the LSU win in 2010. 

[DukeOfPork]

I think I understand now.  True Razorback fans, the real diehards, are the ones telling everyone else how limited our program is and that it's unrealistic and ridiculous to ever expect greatness.  We should accept, even learn to enjoy and embrace, mediocrity with an occasional pretty good season sprinkled in.

The haters, on the other hand, are the people who don't want to settle.  They point out that we've seen national prominence, even in the last few years, and ask why we can't climb the mountain instead of standing around at the bottom, looking toward the top, and commiserating about how difficult and unlikely the ascent would be.

You've got it.  Now go sit in the corner.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

You've got it.  Now go sit in the corner.

Good one DukeoPork, The guy is complaining about and won't give it up. How is Walcott doing?

[Jek Tono Porkins]

No, you clearly don't still. 

Why would a Razorback fan never expect greatness?  The program has shown it is possible.

Do you describe 2010 and 11 as "occasional good seasons"?  I think they were a little more than that. Why would someone believe we couldn't get back there or be in a position like we were in the second half of the SECCG in 2006?   Our program is capable of more as in winning the SEC or making the playoff at some point.

I don't label fans as haters.  But there is a group that seems to believe a rebuild should have never had to have taken place and ignore the circumstances that caused it.  You will keep ripping at the program and the rest of us like a child throwing a tantrum because you believe our program is too good to ever be in the place we are in.  You think we should just be able to go right back to the Friday night after the LSU win in 2010.

Bingo. That's why I say we need stability. If you've got a decent head coach and you keep him for a while, once he gets his system in place, you don't really have "rebuilding years." You may have a couple of "down" years, but you don't have full-on rebuilds like what we're experiencing now. Rebuilds are due to coaching changes, especially coaching changes that involve a change in philosophy/scheme, and especially when the previous coach didn't sign a whole lot of talent.

I think that once Bielema gets his system in place, he is going to be here for a while, my guess is at least ten years. During that time, we can expect 8 or 9 regular season wins every year. I think that's fair. Some years we might get 10 or 11. Some years we might get 7. In a really tough SEC year we might get 6. If we get lucky we may make the playoffs once or twice.

But this fantasy that we should expect 10 or 11 wins EVERY SEASON and win multiple championships is ludicrous. Yes, Bobby Petrino had two 10-win regular seasons. But you can look at the recruits we were getting and see that the high level of success wasn't going to last long. I think Bobby, had he stayed, would have done about the same thing as I outlined above. He would have averaged about 9 wins a year. I loved our 2011 season but we also have to remember that we were a few plays away from having a 7 win regular season that year instead of a 10 win regular season.

[Wants2Win]

No way CBB is here for 10 years.

[DeltaBoy]

No way CBB is here for 10 years.

If he wins more than HDN yes he can stay for 10 years.

[hambone]

Let me see if I got this straight.

Petrino really is bad because he isn't here anymore even though he won big during the zenith of SEC Football competitiveness.

Chrish Ash is not bad even though he fielded THE worst defense I have seen in 40 years of watching Hog football and then willingly fled to another program for less money.

[Steef]

Let me see if I got this straight.

Petrino really is bad because he isn't here anymore even though he won big during the zenith of SEC Football competitiveness.

Chrish Ash is not bad even though he fielded THE worst defense I have seen in 40 years of watching Hog football and then willingly fled to another program for less money.

Dude,

You're in the wrong thread. 

[superior_wang]

Let me see if I got this straight.

Petrino really is bad because he isn't here anymore even though he won big during the zenith of SEC Football competitiveness.

Chrish Ash is not bad even though he fielded THE worst defense I have seen in 40 years of watching Hog football and then willingly fled to another program for less money.

yep, you got it! good job!

[Chief Mac]

I have loved college football from the time I was young enough to understand the game.  I spent hours and hours watching it on television with my grandparents and parents.  They took me to Razorbacks games before I could walk.  I have never lost my love for the Hogs or the game itself, and I assume I never will.  This past season was as exciting as ever.  I enjoyed it without regard to the Razorbacks' poor record.  Even they had their moments. 

I first visited Hogville in November, 2006 while researching what was going on with Houston Nutt and Mitch Mustain.  If I had it to do over again, I probably wouldn't have clicked.  Once I learned the details, I was happy to be part of the group who made every effort to have Nutt ousted.  That was the right thing for the program and the right thing in general.  I love the direction Bret Bielema is taking things on and off the field. 

The non-stop negativity and vitriol on this Board is frustrating.  It could damage my enthusiasm for the Razorbacks and Arkansas if I let it, but I can take it with a grain of salt.  I have to believe that what we see here, although perhaps a barometer of the fanbase, does not represent a splintered fanbase as much as it is a community of diehard, know-it-all, opinionated Razorbacks fans with too much time on their hands, self-absorbed with their own belief that their opinion matters.  I will plead guilty of being one of those people myself.  There are also plenty of trolls and smart alecks here who stir the pot. 

The trick is to not let Hogville adversely affect your love of the game.     

         

Very good post!

[hog911]

Razorback History never lies! An ordinary coach like BB will struggle getting the recruits he needs to run the power game and compete year in and year out with the SEC! He has almost no chance of getting us to the top of the SEC and at best middle of the pack. So yes it will be HDN all over again! But I guess it all depending on what you consider successful!

[superior_wang]

Razorback History never lies! An ordinary coach like BB will struggle getting the recruits he needs to run the power game and compete year in and year out with the SEC! He has almost no chance of getting us to the top of the SEC and at best middle of the pack. So yes it will be HDN all over again! But I guess it all depending on what you consider successful!

i will say this for Bret.... he doenst give me that slimey used car salesman/  smarmy Baptist preacher vibe that Hootie did. (my apologies to any decent used car salesmen)

[Hogsenburg]

Razorback History never lies! An ordinary coach like BB will struggle getting the recruits he needs to run the power game and compete year in and year out with the SEC! He has almost no chance of getting us to the top of the SEC and at best middle of the pack. So yes it will be HDN all over again! But I guess it all depending on what you consider successful!

You do realize HDN won the West 3 times in his tenure as HC right? Thats 3 more times than BP or any other coach in our time in the SEC thats not middle of the pack......Now having said that I think BB will get the program there if he is given time.....he has a huge mess to clean up after the last 2 coaches

[hogsanity]

But there is a group that seems to believe a rebuild should have never had to have taken place and ignore the circumstances that caused it. 

That, right there. BB was brought in to pick up the pieces.  The comments toward him are the ones that drive me crazy.  If you want to live in the past then you can either be mad at BP for being a selfish, ego driven jerk, or at Long for not finding a way to keep the lying, selfish ego centric jerk.  BB had noting to do with any of it.  He also had nothing to do with how thin the defense was when he got here, and for not having a qb with any real playing time to go to either.

Now, if in two seasons they are still thin on D and still have no answer at QB., then that is all on BB.

[Wants2Win]

That, right there. BB was brought in to pick up the pieces.  The comments toward him are the ones that drive me crazy.  If you want to live in the past then you can either be mad at BP for being a selfish, ego driven jerk, or at Long for not finding a way to keep the lying, selfish ego centric jerk.  BB had noting to do with any of it.  He also had nothing to do with how thin the defense was when he got here, and for not having a qb with any real playing time to go to either.

Now, if in two seasons they are still thin on D and still have no answer at QB., then that is all on BB.

I don't agree with the direction we are going. Does not make me blame CBB. He's a good Big 10 college football coach. I blame Long for this entire fiasco.

[Wants2Win]

You do realize HDN won the West 3 times in his tenure as HC right? Thats 3 more times than BP or any other coach in our time in the SEC thats not middle of the pack......Now having said that I think BB will get the program there if he is given time.....he has a huge mess to clean up after the last 2 coaches

Backed into those games...that we lost. We have yet to win the SEC. All that matters.

[hogsanity]

I don't agree with the direction we are going. Does not make me blame CBB. He's a good Big 10 college football coach. I blame Long for this entire fiasco.

yet you take a swipe at BB with " he's a good big 10 college coach ", implying he is not a good coach, only good in the big10.

[Hogsenburg]

Backed into those games...that we lost. We have yet to win the SEC. All that matters.

I agree but we were no closer to winning the SEC under BP dont pretend like we were that is what aggravates me

[bphi11ips]

Backed into those games...that we lost. We have yet to win the SEC. All that matters.

We may have "backed-in" to one.  We dawn sure didn't back in in 2006.

[Hogsenburg]

That, right there. BB was brought in to pick up the pieces.  The comments toward him are the ones that drive me crazy.  If you want to live in the past then you can either be mad at BP for being a selfish, ego driven jerk, or at Long for not finding a way to keep the lying, selfish ego centric jerk.  BB had noting to do with any of it.  He also had nothing to do with how thin the defense was when he got here, and for not having a qb with any real playing time to go to either.

Now, if in two seasons they are still thin on D and still have no answer at QB., then that is all on BB.

agree 100% give BB a couple years and if there are no results then blast him.....he inherited jack crap when he got here give the man some time to fix it

[Hogsenburg]

We may have "backed-in" to one.  We dawn sure didn't back in in 2006.

yep I just hate it when these people pretend like we had never done anything before BP......how soon they seem to forget

[jabohog]

You do realize HDN won the West 3 times in his tenure as HC right? Thats 3 more times than BP or any other coach in our time in the SEC thats not middle of the pack......Now having said that I think BB will get the program there if he is given time.....he has a huge mess to clean up after the last 2 coaches

Nutt won 2. 2002 and 2006. Danny Ford was coach for the first one in 1995.
http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/database/arkansas_database.htm

[Hogsenburg]

Nutt won 2. 2002 and 2006. Danny Ford was coach for the first one in 1995.
http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/database/arkansas_database.htm

Thanks......didn't realize that

[Hawgon]

yep I just hate it when these people pretend like we had never done anything before BP......how soon they seem to forget

I love to be lectured on the history of the program by someone who doesn't even realize that Danny Ford took us to one of those championship games.

[Hogsenburg]

I love to be lectured on the history of the program by someone who doesn't even realize that Danny Ford took us to one of those championship games.

your welcome anytime I can help

[Oklahawg]

I don't agree with the direction we are going. Does not make me blame CBB. He's a good Big 10 college football coach. I blame Long for this entire fiasco.

It is going a different direction than the Gus bus. That irritates some people to the point of irrationality. They look for a scapegoat. The job of the AD is to be that scapegoat while the coach sets out to prove the idiots they are wrong, or give it hell trying.

It must suck to really want to be a Hog fan but your love for something else supercedes your "Hogness".  Makes no sense to me.

[wachhog]

Well. You know, football for fans is all about competing. And since we can't seem to compete with SEC teams any longer, that only leaves us to compete with each other.
P.S. My argument is better than yours.

[wachhog]

It is going a different direction than the Gus bus. That irritates some people to the point of irrationality. They look for a scapegoat. The job of the AD is to be that scapegoat while the coach sets out to prove the idiots they are wrong, or give it hell trying.

It must suck to really want to be a Hog fan but your love for something else supercedes your "Hogness".  Makes no sense to me.

I don't agree with the direction we are going. Does not make me blame CBB. He's a good Big 10 college football coach. I blame Long for this entire fiasco.

I am on this fan's side.

[Steef]

Well. You know, football for fans is all about competing. And since we can't seem to compete with SEC teams any longer, that only leaves us to compete with each other.
P.S. My argument is better than yours.

We don't have teamwork here. We just try to beat each other. In our never ending quest to 'be right'...or 'be right...ER' than the next guy, we are just sucking the joy out of being fans of football...and Hogs.

(sigh)

I am on this fan's side.

We know.

Our team is gonna keep trying to win, whether Hogvillains (sic) try or not.

[wachhog]

It is going a different direction than the Gus bus. That irritates some people to the point of irrationality. They look for a scapegoat. The job of the AD is to be that scapegoat while the coach sets out to prove the idiots they are wrong, or give it hell trying.

It must suck to really want to be a Hog fan but your love for something else supercedes your "Hogness".  Makes no sense to me.

Gus has nothing to do with it.  Petrino's style was the only one that made us very competitive  in The SEC without once in a decade homegrown impact players. We have never been able to recruit with the top half of the SEC.  Petrino's style proved we could be competitive without pulling in those kinds of recruiting classes. 

[Oklahawg]

Gus has nothing to do with it. 

This is utter nonsense. Gus is the single most divisive element in UA fandom, and has been since offered a job at UA.

We can discuss how divisive, but to deny it is goofy.

[Oklahawg]

Petrino's style was the only one that made us very competitive  in The SEC without once in a decade homegrown impact players.

But he had the greatest group (depth, anyway) of in-state players of any coach in the SEC era.

[jabohog]

Let me see if I got this straight.

Petrino really is bad because he isn't here anymore even though he won big during the zenith of SEC Football competitiveness.

Chrish Ash is not bad even though he fielded THE worst defense I have seen in 40 years of watching Hog football and then willingly fled to another program for less money.

Zenith? The only Zenith was LSU and Bama who treated us like their little [CENSORED]. While I loved the winning seasons under Petrino, if you look at our eleven win season only two teams that we beat had winning regular seasons. 

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

It is going a different direction than the Gus bus. That irritates some people to the point of irrationality. They look for a scapegoat. The job of the AD is to be that scapegoat while the coach sets out to prove the idiots they are wrong, or give it hell trying.

It must suck to really want to be a Hog fan but your love for something else supercedes your "Hogness".  Makes no sense to me.

If the Gus bus is winning the. We are certainly going the opposite direction. I couldn't agree more!

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

i will say this for Bret.... he doenst give me that slimey used car salesman/  smarmy Baptist preacher vibe that Hootie did. (my apologies to any decent used car salesmen)

Wang no offense to anyone's religion, but I think you were looking for Pentecostal rather than Baptist.  I mean I swear the dork thought he could handle snakes!

[wachhog]

Wang no offense to anyone's religion, but I think you were looking for Pentecostal rather than Baptist.  I mean I swear the dork thought he could handle snakes!

He was a snake for what he did to those Springdale kids.  He was a slimey and as slithering a snake in the grass as one could ever hope not to see.

[seasonhog]

Gus has nothing to do with it.  Petrino's style was the only one that made us very competitive  in The SEC without once in a decade homegrown impact players. We have never been able to recruit with the top half of the SEC.  Petrino's style proved we could be competitive without pulling in those kinds of recruiting classes.

+1
Wachhog, you are right on. Ar can not recruit with the top teams in the sec for many reasons. You can win more games with a top QB & WR then having a running team & poor passing, just look back at HN teams.
These young posters need to look back in history to understand this. This is way BP was successful.
Up to this point this is why i have doubt with BB style of play.

[superior_wang]

Wang no offense to anyone's religion, but I think you were looking for Pentecostal rather than Baptist.  I mean I swear the dork thought he could handle snakes!

ok well whats the difference besides denim skirts and no makeup ? 

[porkrindjimmy]

But he had the greatest group (depth, anyway) of in-state players of any coach in the SEC era.

Okla, you really think Bobby cant coach? Really? He only succeeded because of in state talent? You know better than that. I think you are a pretty astute poster but please quit running down Bobby to further the new regime. Until the new regime wins at least one SEC game, people have the right to express their disgust. This isn't a pretty or fun situation for the program.

PRJ

[bigbadhog]

+1
Wachhog, you are right on. Ar can not recruit with the top teams in the sec for many reasons. You can win more games with a top QB & WR then having a running team & poor passing, just look back at HN teams.
These young posters need to look back in history to understand this. This is way BP was successful.
Up to this point this is why i have doubt with BB style of play.

YOU are right on seasonhog.  People that are old enough to have lived through our football struggles following Holtz will understand.  I would be very curious to know the average age of "Bielema's Army" on Hogville.  I bet most are not long term fans and weren't born before Hatfield took the reins in 1984.  If they were, they would see how ridiculous their arguments are...  BBH

[Hogsenburg]

Zenith? The only Zenith was LSU and Bama who treated us like their little [CENSORED]. While I loved the winning seasons under Petrino, if you look at our eleven win season only two teams that we beat had winning regular seasons.

Thank you for pointing that out. All the people who think BP hung the moon refuse to see that. BP knows football dont get me wrong, but dont act like hes the best thing that ever happened to Arkansas Football

[Hawgon]

Thank you for pointing that out. All the people who think BP hung the moon refuse to see that. BP knows football dont get me wrong, but dont act like hes the best thing that ever happened to Arkansas Football

What was Petrino's record against LSU?  Help me out, I forget.  Oh, and while you're at it, tell me what the record of the entire SEC was against Alabama while Petrino was at Arkansas.

I know you are an Arkansas football historian and all and should be able to answer these questions for me easily.  Thanks in advance.

[bigbadhog]

Thank you for pointing that out. All the people who think BP hung the moon refuse to see that. BP knows football dont get me wrong, but dont act like hes the best thing that ever happened to Arkansas Football

He is by FAR the best thing since the 1978 Orange Bowl - 36 years...  That's over 1/3 of a century

[bigbadhog]

What was Petrino's record against LSU?  Help me out, I forget.  Oh, and while you're at it, tell me what the record of the entire SEC was against Alabama while Petrino was at Arkansas.

I know you are an Arkansas football historian and all and should be able to answer these questions for me easily.  Thanks in advance.

I don't think he is going to like the answers

[Hogsenburg]

What was Petrino's record against LSU?  Help me out, I forget.  Oh, and while you're at it, tell me what the record of the entire SEC was against Alabama while Petrino was at Arkansas.

I know you are an Arkansas football historian and all and should be able to answer these questions for me easily.  Thanks in advance.

Whoa calm down son no need to get all fired up because I insulted your favorite coach......Yea BP was 2-2 against LSU big deal man and you are correct about Bama the SEC was o for against them in that time other than LSU once......I'm just saying don't make the guy out to be the best thing ever because he aint

[Hogsenburg]

I don't think he is going to like the answers

no he isnt

[porkrindjimmy]

I can answer that. 2-2 against LSU.

What you are seeing is a divide with people who want winning football games vs people who want only choir biys with 4.0 gpa and humanitarian efforts that make mother Theresa's look pale in comparison, all while playing football in the most inmoral conference in America. They tell you that we cant expect to win anymore than 7, 8 games on average most years. They tell you that it is ok....what it is as long as we are still in the SEC. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I have an idea. Ask Lanny to create a section of this board for you scholarly types; so you can discuss players GPA's, charitable contributions and which player will babysit Jeffs kids on saturday night. Leave MMQB for people who actually care about winning football games. After all, thid is an Arkansas Razorback message board, not a scholastic board, not a good deeds board, a football board.

PRJ

[Hawgon]

Whoa calm down son no need to get all fired up because I insulted your favorite coach......Yea BP was 2-2 against LSU big deal man and you are correct about Bama the SEC was o for against them in that time other than LSU once......I'm just saying don't make the guy out to be the best thing ever because he aint

Well, then Mr. Historian of all things Razorback, what coach was better since Frank Broyles or arguably, Lou Holtz?  Please, name another coach who coached at Arkansas for only four years in those four years had back-to-back ten win seasons.

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

I can answer that. 2-2 against LSU.

What you are seeing is a divide with people who want winning football games vs people who want only choir biys with 4.0 gpa and humanitarian efforts that make mother Theresa's look pale in comparison, all while playing football in the most inmoral conference in America. They tell you that we cant expect to win anymore than 7, 8 games on average most years. They tell you that it is ok....what it is as long as we are still in the SEC. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I have an idea. Ask Lanny to create a section of this board for you scholarly types; so you can discuss players GPA's, charitable contributions and which player will babysit Jeffs kids on saturday night. Leave MMQB for people who actually care about winning football games. After all, thid is an Arkansas Razorback message board, not a scholastic board, not a good deeds board, a football board.

PRJ

Great post prj!

[seasonhog]

YOU are right on seasonhog.  People that are old enough to have lived through our football struggles following Holtz will understand.  I would be very curious to know the average age of "Bielema's Army" on Hogville.  I bet most are not long term fans and weren't born before Hatfield took the reins in 1984.  If they were, they would see how ridiculous their arguments are...  BBH

+1.......age....12-25 yrs